Posted: 4/12/2011 5:52:23 AM EDT
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I was ordering 2 MOE kits and 2 lowers...then I saw this...
"Due to Federal law, if you order an AR15 lower and AR15 parts, we will have to add an additional 11% Federal Excise Tax to the purchase price of the AR15 lower and AR15 parts. This amount will not be reflected in your shopping cart or on your invoice, but will be added when your order is processed." ive never had to pay 11% additional tax. Whats this for? I thought it would only apply if a FFL was building a lower into a complete firearm... |
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Quoted: ....ive never had to pay 11% additional tax. Whats this for? I thought it would only apply if a FFL was building a lower into a complete firearm... This is someone trying to screw you into paying their manufacturers tax. I have a 07 FFL and have to file this on firearms manufactured for the year or quarter. The company should already have this amount figured into their sale price for a completed firearm/lower (if they are actually manufacturing the lower) and not be passing it on in addition to the sales price. |
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....ive never had to pay 11% additional tax. Whats this for? I thought it would only apply if a FFL was building a lower into a complete firearm... This is someone trying to screw you into paying their manufacturers tax. I have a 07 FFL and have to file this on firearms manufactured for the year or quarter. The company should already have this amount figured into their sale price for a completed firearm/lower (if they are actually manufacturing the lower) and not be passing it on in addition to the sales price. This |
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....ive never had to pay 11% additional tax. Whats this for? I thought it would only apply if a FFL was building a lower into a complete firearm... This is someone trying to screw you into paying their manufacturers tax. I have a 07 FFL and have to file this on firearms manufactured for the year or quarter. The company should already have this amount figured into their sale price for a completed firearm/lower (if they are actually manufacturing the lower) and not be passing it on in addition to the sales price. This There is no excise tax due on a stipped lower. It is only due on a complete firearm. There was a prior case (and I forget whom it was) but the result was that selling everything needed to assemble an operational firearm was ruled to be equivalent to selling that firearm, requiring FET be paid on the whole transaction. For a while, FET was calculated on all the bling, so if you bought a lower, rifle kit, and $2000 scope at the same time, the whole thing (incl scope) got hit with the 11%. Now I think it's just the basic rifle... But it is real, ATF views it as manufacturing so it is taxable. it's not a rip off or scam. Several dealers have been advising about "not all at once" orders for years now. |
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Quoted: There is no excise tax due on a stipped lower. It is only due on a complete firearm. There was a prior case (and I forget whom it was) but the result was that selling everything needed to assemble an operational firearm was ruled to be equivalent to selling that firearm, requiring FET be paid on the whole transaction. For a while, FET was calculated on all the bling, so if you bought a lower, rifle kit, and $2000 scope at the same time, the whole thing (incl scope) got hit with the 11%. Now I think it's just the basic rifle... But it is real, ATF views it as manufacturing so it is taxable. it's not a rip off or scam. Several dealers have been advising about "not all at once" orders for years now. Here is what the TTB site says: "2. If I manufacture an article and sell it in knockdown condition, am I liable for FAET? Yes. If you manufacture an article and sell it in knockdown condition (unassembled but complete as to all component parts), you are liable for FAET. If you purchase an article in knockdown condition and assemble it, your liability for FAET will depend on the following factors:
4. If I manufacture an article only for my personal use, am I still liable for FAET? If you manufacture a firearm for your personal use, you are not liable for FAET. (Note: this exemption does not apply to partnerships and corporations)" Seems to me that it is pretty clear that the FAET is responsibility of the manufacturer regardless of how the firearm is sold. Advertising a price for the parts then sticking the excise tax in there just does not seem right to my way of thinking. |
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If they sell a complete lower for $300, there is no FET due. If they sell a complete upper for $500, there is no FET due. If they sell and upper and a lower for $800, $88 FET is due. Simple as that. From the manufacturer not the customer! From the seller, here, since "manufacturer" would be the customer. If the purchaser wants to order it that way, the seller probably isn't going to pay FET out of their pocket. Or should they mark up all of their products by 11% just in case a buyer wants an "all in one" ? Or would they have two product lines, one +11% and another +10% for parts being used in handguns? Oh and a third line at +0%, straight retail, for components being used to build guns that are exempt from FET ???? |
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Quoted: From the seller, here, since "manufacturer" would be the customer. If the purchaser wants to order it that way, the seller probably isn't going to pay FET out of their pocket. Or should they mark up all of their products by 11% just in case a buyer wants an "all in one" ? Or would they have two product lines, one +11% and another +10% for parts being used in handguns? Oh and a third line at +0%, straight retail, for components being used to build guns that are exempt from FET ???? Private individual for personal use is exempt, which is where my problem with the deal comes in to play. As far as the "accounting" side goes I personally will have the excise tax figured as part of the overall cost and not tack it on at the sale. If I am not mistaken a "lower" is considered a firearm hence the need for an FFL to receive one. If a company has those made with their name and serial numbers they are responsible for the FAET. It just seems shady to me but that as they say is my opinion. |
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From the seller, here, since "manufacturer" would be the customer. If the purchaser wants to order it that way, the seller probably isn't going to pay FET out of their pocket. Or should they mark up all of their products by 11% just in case a buyer wants an "all in one" ? Or would they have two product lines, one +11% and another +10% for parts being used in handguns? Oh and a third line at +0%, straight retail, for components being used to build guns that are exempt from FET ???? Private individual for personal use is exempt, which is where my problem with the deal comes in to play. As far as the "accounting" side goes I personally will have the excise tax figured as part of the overall cost and not tack it on at the sale. If I am not mistaken a "lower" is considered a firearm hence the need for an FFL to receive one. If a company has those made with their name and serial numbers they are responsible for the FAET. It just seems shady to me but that as they say is my opinion. A lower is considered a firearm under GCA68, but a lower is not eligible for FAET. FAET is only on complete (or "close enough" to complete) handguns and rifles, which a stripped lower - or even an assembled lower - is not. The person who assembles, or compiles, the complete firearm is responsible for the FAET. The guy assembling one for his own use is clearly exempt from FAET. However, ATF could make the case that the shipping clerk at the seller actually assembled it ("close enough") by compiling all the parts (constructive posesssion?). |
ill have to place the order on some lowers maybe tomorrow... 
no problem...figured id ask. Just found it a bit funny  
I am more than pleased with my previous business with the company. Looking forward to my 2 MOE kits I just ordered 
ETA: I think ill wait until the MOE kits ship to order the lowers. I dont want to get stuck with 11% extra. That would suck. |
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Quoted: ill have to place the order on some lowers maybe tomorrow... no problem...figured id ask. Just found it a bit funny I am more than pleased with my previous business with the company. Looking forward to my 2 MOE kits I just ordered ETA: I think ill wait until the MOE kits ship to order the lowers. I dont want to get stuck with 11% extra. That would suck. Probably the best way to handle it!  |