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Posted: 9/15/2017 1:05:00 PM EDT
LT Ultimate Upper Kit (6.5G)....$891
Lower Receiver.......................$199 (per LT) Mags (x2)...............................$40 ($17.95 each per LT) LT Assy..................................$199 ............................................$1,329 Complete Riffle (6.5G)............$1,999 Seems like those that bought the complete rifle got over charged about ~$600 |
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210 for the mount and whatever the charge is for assembly of the lower plus ammo and it came with a test target
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Perhaps there was an extra fee for ML reaching through the interwebs to force folks to buy the complete Grendel...
Overcharged...hogwash... What do you think this is Best Buy |
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To get the exact 6.5 Grendel upper as the complete rifle would be $1,100.
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Quoted:
To get the exact 6.5 Grendel upper as the complete rifle would be $1,100. View Quote Correct, assuming you mean that would be the cost with the lower...so a complete rifle with some [easily done] assembly required. And with the rifle you get the scope mount, 2 mags, some ammo, keymod rail section, test target, and maybe some extra swag. Back out the extra hard parts and the difference is about 600, so that's what you're paying for LT to assemble and test fire the rifle. All I can say is, that ain't a good value *for me*. I bought the rifle but if I had known the UU kit was coming soon, there is no way I'd have bought the rifle. And yeah, I'm not too happy about it and probably won't buy any supposed small run rifles in the future because of it. |
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Don't forget Firearms and Ammunition Excise Tax. I think it's 11% for rifles.
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Quoted:
LT Ultimate Upper Kit (6.5G)....$891 Lower Receiver.......................$199 (per LT) Mags (x2)...............................$40 ($17.95 each per LT) LT Assy..................................$199 ............................................$1,329 Complete Riffle (6.5G)............$1,999 Seems like those that bought the complete rifle got over charged about ~$600 View Quote All joking aside, it stings a little, but I'm still happy with my rifle. I'm glad I bought it. My only complaint is an elander mag that had bent feed lips on it, but I can't say for sure if it came like that or not from LT. |
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The question is.....after we all splurge on the UU deals, what will Larue do to keep sales going? A $1K complete rifle? Who knows? There's still a few years of salad days, and Larue will have to be innovative to keep sales up.
And I have had an UU in 6.5G in my cart for the last few days. Still haven't pulled the trigger.......yet. |
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Quoted:
The question is.....after we all splurge on the UU deals, what will Larue do to keep sales going? A $1K complete rifle? Who knows? There's still a few years of salad days, and Larue will have to be innovative to keep sales up. And I have had an UU in 6.5G in my cart for the last few days. Still haven't pulled the trigger.......yet. View Quote |
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would rather have the basic rifle with no frills, swag, case, scope mount, ammo, etc... The UU Kit is the much better value. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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Quoted:Seems like those that bought the complete rifle got over charged about ~$600 View Quote I would suggest the UU people were undercharged by $600, it's a great deal that won't last forever. You just know people will start complaining as soon as it's gone. |
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Quoted:
I would suggest the UU people were undercharged by $600, it's a great deal that won't last forever. You just know people will start complaining as soon as it's gone. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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$600 is a bit of an overstatement I think. I just priced it out on the website myself. I'm thinking closer to $300 (and I'm not a Grendel buyer, I am an UU buyer x2 though).
If you were to place an UU order for the same thing as the 6.5 grendel's upper it'd be $1090 Add in the mount, mags, upper assembly fee, ammo, rail section - you're looking closer to $1,600 all in I'm not saying I would pay someone $300 to assemble a lower for me and test fire a gun, but there is SOME added value to those as well. I for one am guilty of buggering up a lower. I wouldn't be opposed to letting a professional do it. And its really not uncommon for a new AR's whole to be a bit more expensive than the sum of its parts. Would some have rather waited? Probably. But I don't think its as insulting as some have made it out to be. Also - to the Grendel owners out there - if any of you want to recoup some funds and would consider parting with your FDE mount just let me know! |
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I want to see the flagship rifles be available in parts or cheaper
The used market for full larue rifles I think will hurt a bit |
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Machining time is 75% less on these kits plus the 11% tax savings vs a factory rifle and it's propriety attachment points. With that in mind, I think our factory (flagship) rigs are safe, value-wise.
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Hey thanks for calculating all that and reminding all us original grendel buyers what we knew within 5 minutes of the UU deal! All joking aside, it stings a little, but I'm still happy with my rifle. I'm glad I bought it. My only complaint is an elander mag that had bent feed lips on it, but I can't say for sure if it came like that or not from LT. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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LT Ultimate Upper Kit (6.5G)....$891 Lower Receiver.......................$199 (per LT) Mags (x2)...............................$40 ($17.95 each per LT) LT Assy..................................$199 ............................................$1,329 Complete Riffle (6.5G)............$1,999 Seems like those that bought the complete rifle got over charged about ~$600 All joking aside, it stings a little, but I'm still happy with my rifle. I'm glad I bought it. My only complaint is an elander mag that had bent feed lips on it, but I can't say for sure if it came like that or not from LT. And the advertised "small run" well about 3 mounths latter they are still selling them. And someone can buy a parts kit and have one exactly like it for less money. I kind a feel like a dope. |
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In all fairness there was never any indication of a true limited number of these rifles to be built. The past special editions have all come with specified numbers to be built and there were none in this case.
The math isn't that far off as others have said when you load these kits up with all the components thrown in with the complete rifle and the federal firearm tax. You can also guarantee that your FDE between parts on the upper and lower all match if you buy the complete rifle, not necessarily so doing the UU. |
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Quoted:
In all fairness there was never any indication of a true limited number of these rifles to be built. The past special editions have all come with specified numbers to be built and there were none in this case. The math isn't that far off as others have said when you load these kits up with all the components thrown in with the complete rifle and the federal firearm tax. You can also guarantee that your FDE between parts on the upper and lower all match if you buy the complete rifle, not necessarily so doing the UU. View Quote |
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Quoted:
In all fairness there was never any indication of a true limited number of these rifles to be built. The past special editions have all come with specified numbers to be built and there were none in this case. The math isn't that far off as others have said when you load these kits up with all the components thrown in with the complete rifle and the federal firearm tax. You can also guarantee that your FDE between parts on the upper and lower all match if you buy the complete rifle, not necessarily so doing the UU. View Quote |
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It's true the wording did make it sound limited. And perhaps it still is and won't be a permanent offering. And there was no mention of "limited to XXX pieces" like some other runs.
But there was a limited edition urgency to it. |
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It would be nice to see LT offer bare bones rifles, no frills, no swag, no test target, no mags, no ammo, and in a plain cardboard box. Some people collect that crap, I don't. Their products are excellent and definitely work. Warranty and CS service would be no different. Like someone stated above...if you paid $1,999 then you're fooked. You'll be lucky to get $1,000 to $1,100 in this piss poor gun market. The receiver is about the only thing retaining any value.
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I have the original email, it had no specific numbers. While it suggests its limited, it has no defined limit which seemed odd to me when I got it at the time. We have no idea how many of them actually went out and where the cap on their sales is. I'm not denying that the wording implies it is limited and its production probably is. With the over saturation of the market I wouldn't be shocked if Mark thought it would sell out faster, I just never got the impression it would be as limited as other runs as it was still worded differently.
And yes you can assemble the uu kit yourself and it's super simple, but if they assemble it they have to pay someone to do that and test fire it, that's not free. Plus once it's assembled you have to tax on the whole assembly. |
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Dam I ran out of beer to cry in,good thing I hedged my bets and purchased both,that way I average out better hindsight is always 20/20 but I wouldent bank on the UU kits being around forever.you may have just gotten the larue buy of the year.
Pete |
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Here are the actual numbers [with generous guesses on the ammo and scope mount coating]. No you don't get to count the FET of 11% on rifles. That's not for something you get with the rifle, it's a necessary evil when the only choice is to buy a complete rifle.
6.5G rifle1999 shipping41.9 rifle with shipping2040.9 mount-210 mags-37.9 ammo-40 bcm km rail section-20 cerakote scope mount-30 total1703 UU kit792 FDE option99 shipping7.95 kit with shipping898.95 lower199 shipping11.95 lower with shipping210.95 total1109.9 If you want to talk percentages, the UU kit build comes in at a 34.8% 'discount'. Even if you incorrectly count the FET in this, the UU kit build comes in at a 26.2% 'discount'. That's the math, not that it matters at all to some people here. |
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I don't wanna start a pissing match here as I have 0 skin in this game and I agree the UU is a cheaper way to get the same end product
However - anytime you buy a complete AR you're paying for the assembly. It's not just a sum of parts. And LaRue quantified it for you with the Ultimate Upper receiver ($199 assembly and test fire) So - like it or not - you paid for that. So you kinda have to add that in if you're comparing apples to apples in money. And they're assembling and testing the whole thing for you, including the lower. Again - cheaper to do it yourself - no doubt. But still not miles apart. |
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Agree the UU kits are a awesome deal,but if you want to keep qualified people to assemble,ship,manage and run a business there is overhead.and ultimately it takes more time to assemble and test shoot a gun than to drop it in a box and send it out.
I must admit I was surprised the complete gun did not have the chrome bolt and the pst gas block system,if it did I don't think we would have this thread. I suppose once people start assembeling the large frame kits there will be a bunch of butt hurt over the value of them over the tar/tobr/obr assembled rifles. Guess maybe the lesson to be learned here is good things come to those who wait.....but for those of us with little to no self control this gun hobby is expensive. If you wait long enough mark May offer barrels and bolts in 6.5 g for 200.00 and you can really save some coin or he may pull the pin on the entire UU deal and go back to getting spare barrels and hand guards for the "premium" tobr line of guns. As people would love to see the tobr line expanded with barrel caliber selections and hand guards lengths with keymod/mlock as a options. Pete |
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I don't wanna start a pissing match here as I have 0 skin in this game and I agree the UU is a cheaper way to get the same end product However - anytime you buy a complete AR you're paying for the assembly. It's not just a sum of parts. And LaRue quantified it for you with the Ultimate Upper receiver ($199 assembly and test fire) So - like it or not - you paid for that. So you kinda have to add that in if you're comparing apples to apples in money. And they're assembling and testing the whole thing for you, including the lower. Again - cheaper to do it yourself - no doubt. But still not miles apart. View Quote Does anyone really think these rifles could possibly be worth more than the 1100 it takes to buy the parts? If so, let's talk (in other words, let's make a deal). |
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Does anyone really think these rifles could possibly be worth more than the 1100 it takes to buy the parts? If so, let's talk (in other words, let's make a deal). View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Does anyone really think these rifles could possibly be worth more than the 1100 it takes to buy the parts? If so, let's talk (in other words, let's make a deal). ETA: Quoted:
Here are the actual numbers [with generous guesses on the ammo and scope mount coating]. ... If you want to talk percentages, the UU kit build comes in at a 34.8% 'discount'. Even if you incorrectly count the FET in this, the UU kit build comes in at a 26.2% 'discount'. That's the math, not that it matters at all to some people here. FDE upper - 900 Assembly - 200 Lower - 200 Lower assembly, function testing whole rifle, etc. - $50? FDE mount - 250 Mags/Ammo/etc. - 100 $1,700, or 15% off. Not as dramatic as most are purporting. I looked at getting the 6.5 LaRue FDE, but I wanted a short Grendel and decided to build my own. You always had that option too. |
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^^^^^^^^^
even at the $1700 for the parts for those who, purchased the complete rifles you still HAVE to include the 11% FAET in the total cost because that is what LT still had to pay in order to sell you the rifle. so lets take out the mount at $250. thats leaves $1450 + $159.5 FAET and that brings the total for the rifle alone to $1609.50. add the mount back and thats a total of $1859.50. a couple boxes of ammo and your at around $100 difference. the math doesn't lie to be honest. it never does. if you can't afford $100 for piece of mind from a factory LT item you probably don't need to be buying guns to begin with. (this is NOT directed to the poster about) i'll repeat the same thing i was told by all of the LT members when i complained about not getting the same deal on the spare parts with my new .260 rifle as the ones who bought the FDE Heavy a month later. suck it up buttercup!! |
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You paid more to get it first and to have bragging rights. Simple
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^^^^^^^^^ even at the $1700 for the parts for those who, purchased the complete rifles you still HAVE to include the 11% FAET in the total cost because that is what LT still had to pay in order to sell you the rifle. so lets take out the mount at $250. thats leaves $1450 + $159.5 FAET and that brings the total for the rifle alone to $1609.50. add the mount back and thats a total of $1859.50. a couple boxes of ammo and your at around $100 difference. the math doesn't lie to be honest. it never does. if you can't afford $100 for piece of mind from a factory LT item you probably don't need to be buying guns to begin with. (this is NOT directed to the poster about) i'll repeat the same thing i was told by all of the LT members when i complained about not getting the same deal on the spare parts with my new .260 rifle as the ones who bought the FDE Heavy a month later. suck it up buttercup!! View Quote ETA - OP, tactical medic450 posted the numbers you seek. |
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Yeah dude, just not on the EE amongst a bunch of AR15 nerds. It would be like trying to sell a factory Alienware PC in a PC builders group. Someone who wants a nice rifle and dgaf about building one will pay more than $1100 for it, because it's worth more than $1100 and they'll have no interest in the UU kit or a rifle you built from the UU kit and are trying to tell them that "it works, trust me" vs one assembled at the factory. ETA: That's not the math. The full rifle package is the full rifle package, if you didn't want some of the stuff in the package you can't just delete that. FDE upper - 900 Assembly - 200 Lower - 200 Lower assembly, function testing whole rifle, etc. - $50? FDE mount - 250 Mags/Ammo/etc. - 100 $1,700, or 15% off. Not as dramatic as most are purporting. I looked at getting the 6.5 LaRue FDE, but I wanted a short Grendel and decided to build my own. You always had that option too. View Quote |
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Gun industry is in the toilet, sales are very slow across the board. Very creative of way to dump inventory before the end of the year. Based on slow sales for complete guns, sell parts at discounted prices, save on labor for assembly and avoid excise tax. Win / Win for LT and the customers that bought the UU kits. Not so much for those that bought complete rifles. Would have been nice for the UU kits to come before the complete rifles were offered or offer complete rifles in a la carte.
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Of course, you are going to pay something for assembly and test firing. My problem is that the thing was presented as a limited item, which clearly was the deciding factor for some people (including me). LT cashed in on some trust from loyal customers, and turned right around and offered the same thing at a much lower cost. Turns out it wasn't nearly as limited as the advertising implied. Like I said, I won't make this mistake again. Two reasons I've been a past buyer of LT rifles: quality and resale value. They just completely stomped out the resale value on something that would have been reasonably believed to hold up better (IMHO), and there are several other high quality options out there that haven't done that. I vote with my dollars. Does anyone really think these rifles could possibly be worth more than the 1100 it takes to buy the parts? If so, let's talk (in other words, let's make a deal). View Quote |
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^^^^^^^^^ even at the $1700 for the parts for those who, purchased the complete rifles you still HAVE to include the 11% FAET in the total cost because that is what LT still had to pay in order to sell you the rifle. so lets take out the mount at $250. thats leaves $1450 + $159.5 FAET and that brings the total for the rifle alone to $1609.50. add the mount back and thats a total of $1859.50. a couple boxes of ammo and your at around $100 difference. the math doesn't lie to be honest. it never does. if you can't afford $100 for piece of mind from a factory LT item you probably don't need to be buying guns to begin with. (this is NOT directed to the poster about) i'll repeat the same thing i was told by all of the LT members when i complained about not getting the same deal on the spare parts with my new .260 rifle as the ones who bought the FDE Heavy a month later. suck it up buttercup!! View Quote full disclosure: I bought the UU kit, and UPS has my stripped lower. Resale is a stupid argument to begin with, but based on some of the "how to assemble an ar15" videos I've seen on facebook, I wouldn't pay anywhere near the same amount for a gun some stranger put together vs one built by Larue. Then again, I see people who went to Mexico for dental work on a weekly basis. . . |
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Gun industry is in the toilet, sales are very slow across the board. Very creative of way to dump inventory before the end of the year. Based on slow sales for complete guns, sell parts at discounted prices, save on labor for assembly and avoid excise tax. Win / Win for LT and the customers that bought the UU kits. Not so much for those that bought complete rifles. Would have been nice for the UU kits to come before the complete rifles were offered or offer complete rifles in a la carte. View Quote And the resell argument seems moot since only a minuscule segment of LaRue rifle owners ever sell them. |
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There is always a segment of the population that will find something to complain about. If there were no UU's and the IPO 6.5G's sold out in 4 minutes, there would be a different subset of people whining about it.
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There is always a segment of the population that will find something to complain about. If there were no UU's and the IPO 6.5G's sold out in 4 minutes, there would be a different subset of people whining about it. View Quote |
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I'm more upset with the way it was presented and the unfinished buildAR rifle I have honestly than the price. If there is a market Mark is trying to expand into, more power too him because 'Merica. But I'm pretty sure I'm not the only long term customer with a bad taste in my mouth now. View Quote I would buy the rifle again in a heartbeat. |
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Maybe Mark will let us purchase some lowers as part of next quarter's BuildAR. Seems like he's been pretty generous with lowers. He sure was to the folks that made those videos.
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Well, I convinced my buddy to buy one who is a cheap bastard. If the UU didn't come along no way he gets into this. After shooting some really nice groups I'd say he is hooked. I'd say it brings alot of people into the sport, and that's hardly a bad thing. I would buy the rifle again in a heartbeat. View Quote |
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"... the math doesn't lie to be honest. it never does. if you can't afford $100 for piece of mind from a factory LT item you probably don't need to be buying guns to begin with." And the resell argument seems moot since only a minuscule segment of LaRue rifle owners ever sell them. View Quote |
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In all fairness, it was actually presented as an IPO... an Initial View Quote "LaRue IPO - Initial Precision Offering - - - Offered Immediately. We are wrapping up a small-run of our new gorgeous 6.5 Grendel rifles adorned in Flat Dark Earth and you can place your order right now. Don't hesitate if you want one and be advised the 125 FDE 7.62 rifles we offered on Jan. 1st, 2016 sold out in four minutes flat. Our recent run of 375 FDE 7.62 rifles crashed the website. It took nearly an hour to recover, so the run offering was delayed a bit and took just under 2 hours (but it was 3 times as many). Anyhow, get after it if you want one" No the word limited is not there.. the words small run are .. and with the sales pitch of they are going to sell fast better get one.. Kind feels like so used car sales man tricks.. lol But shoot I bought one in 4 min after I saw how well the guys that got a FDE 7.62 where treated.. then with in 3 or so weeks after the UU goes on sale .. kinda takes the "special felling " out of it.. And truth is I am prob going to get a UU in 6.5 cm because I have been waiting 4 years on just a barrel from my tOBR and who knows if that will ever happen ..... But mark can do what mark wants to do.. but the fanboy customer base is kinda taking a hit... but in reality that probably has nothing to do with the bottom line. |
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