[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SPR-E mount issues (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/4/2013 11:46:28 PM EDT
| I have the SPR-E LT139 mounting a Vortex Razor HDII 1-6x. I picked the rifle up today and it seems that somehow between last week and now somehow something's bent downward. When you look through it now you can see my weapon light and my hand. It also looks like its pointing down when you set it on a flat surface. Both the mount and the optic are fairly new and have only been out for 3 matches and it hasn't been dropped ever. Is it more likely to be the mount or the optic or would it have to be both? Does this happen ever with mounts and optics? Anything else it might be? I was a little worried about how far the SPR-E extends out but I was assured it couldn't bend. |
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I'll try to this afternoon. It's hard to tell on the rifle but on a flat table you can see a slight downward angle. The biggest thing is how now the weapon light and front of rifle are visible in the scope. Is it possible to be just one or would it have to be both the scope and the mount? Is this situation really heard of without major damage? I noticed if you push down semi lightly on the scope/mount the mount beam does flex a bit as well which isn't comforting. All the screws and adjustment rings have witness marks and nothings changed. I also inspected for cracks or stress marks on the mount and scope and didn't see anything. Its all relatively new and probably only been through about 300 rounds if that.
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If you "push down semi lightly on the scope/mount the mount beam does flex a bit”, this is either a very loose mount or it is a copy. There is no way that a LaRue mount will flex that way if it is tighten correctly.
Nope I order everything direct from LaRue and I don't buy major parts like mounts used. It flexes where the spine meets the base. The SPR-E is the really long extended one. Is it possible its normal for that mount? |
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If you "push down semi lightly on the scope/mount the mount beam does flex a bit”, this is either a very loose mount or it is a copy. There is no way that a LaRue mount will flex that way if it is tighten correctly.
Nope I order everything direct from LaRue and I don't buy major parts like mounts used. It flexes where the spine meets the base. The SPR-E is the really long extended one. Is it possible its normal for that mount? Sounds like a POS mount or a broken mount. Seeing as you ordered it directly from Larue, call customer service. That shouldn't be happening. In fact, that shouldn't even happen with a RedHead mount from Bass Pro, much less a LT mount. |
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If you brought direct from LaRue, you are of course safe from fakes. Mounts really cannot be that loose or they will have a big problem holding zero and that is what LaRue mounts are famous for and what you pay the big bucks for. So the question is when you mounted the scope, did you follow the instructions in the sequence as to how to tighten the screws, and did you use a torque wrench? Not trying to be nasty but that is the new obvious question to determine if it was mounted properly. |
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If you brought direct from LaRue, you are of course safe from fakes.
Mounts really cannot be that loose or they will have a big problem holding zero and that is what LaRue mounts are famous for and what you pay the big bucks for. So the question is when you mounted the scope, did you follow the instructions in the sequence as to how to tighten the screws, and did you use a torque wrench? Not trying to be nasty but that is the new obvious question to determine if it was mounted properly. I had a gun smith do it because I hadn't unpacked my tools yet. I watched him level it and use an in/lbs torque wrench to specs. But its not flexing at either of the rings and the scope has witness marks between it and the rings and it hasn't budged. It's always done the flexing along the spine thing since I got it in, but the FOV has never permanently shifted, obviously. ETA: Is the design of the SPR-E less durable/ more delicate than the other mounts like say the LT104? I prefer the SPR-E because it seems to help shift the weight of my front heavy rifle towards the rear a little more but if I go for an exchange would it be better in terms of ruggedness to ask to swap it out for the LT104 instead? |
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+1 on what Randall_1611 just posted. There is a right and wrong way to mount the scope using LT mounts. The unfortunate truth is I have had to remount scopes for people at the range because some gunsmith did it wrong….
As to flexing along the spine, all metal flex to some extend since it is by definition never 100% rigid, but having the scope flex if you put down semi lightly is indeed troublesome. The hard thing here is everything you say is subjective and what I think is very little flex someone may think it is a lot so hard to say. The other way to look at this is have you zero your rifle with some quality ammo and does it maintain zero after you push down on the scope and release it. If you have a loose and unstable mount, it is not going to hold zero - That is the bottom line. |
| Nope there's still a gap at the top. I sat there and watched the guy install it according to directions. I don't usually like other people working on my stuff so I made sure to the point I was irritating him. I agree about the pressure and flex being relative. The only gauge I can give you is when pushing down I used my index finger under the hand guard and my thumb on the top of the scope and it flexed about 1/16-1/8th of an inch. I'll try to get an exact measurement now. |
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It’s really hard to give you an answer because in your OP, you give us an impression that the mount has shifted enough that "you can see my weapon light and my hand”. If you could not see this before but can now, that would IMHO require a huge shift in the scope. I understand that what you are seeing may be psychological i.e. you see a flex and attribute it to a change in what you can see, but I don’t know. As for a slight flex which we seem to be discussing now, I can’t give you an honest answer as to how much flex there should be as I only have used the LT-104 and LT-158. Those of course have a shorter extension and so will flex less. Apart from shooting it and checking for its ability to hold zero which is really what is important, you can try calling LaRue and asking them. |
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It’s really hard to give you an answer because in your OP, you give us an impression that the mount has shifted enough that "you can see my weapon light and my hand”. If you could not see this before but can now, that would IMHO require a huge shift in the scope. I understand that what you are seeing may be psychological i.e. you see a flex and attribute it to a change in what you can see, but I don’t know.
As for a slight flex which we seem to be discussing now, I can’t give you an honest answer as to how much flex there should be as I only have used the LT-104 and LT-158. Those of course have a shorter extension and so will flex less. Apart from shooting it and checking for its ability to hold zero which is really what is important, you can try calling LaRue and asking them. In regards to the flex I was asking if the SPR-E mount was maybe less durable than the LT104 and would it be better to exchange for the 104? I'll try to get a picture though my scope if I can |
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Nope there's still a gap at the top. I sat there and watched the guy install it according to directions. I don't usually like other people working on my stuff so I made sure to the point I was irritating him. I agree about the pressure and flex being relative. The only gauge I can give you is when pushing down I used my index finger under the hand guard and my thumb on the top of the scope and it flexed about 1/16-1/8th of an inch. I'll try to get an exact measurement now. If you said you perceive some flex, I could see it, but a 1/16th of an inch is huge. Do you have the tools included with the mount? You could loosen one ring at a time and re-tighten them and not have it shift in the mount. You don't need a bunch of fancy tools for a LT mount. 
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Nope there's still a gap at the top. I sat there and watched the guy install it according to directions. I don't usually like other people working on my stuff so I made sure to the point I was irritating him. I agree about the pressure and flex being relative. The only gauge I can give you is when pushing down I used my index finger under the hand guard and my thumb on the top of the scope and it flexed about 1/16-1/8th of an inch. I'll try to get an exact measurement now. If you said you perceive some flex, I could see it, but a 1/16th of an inch is huge. Do you have the tools included with the mount? You could loosen one ring at a time and re-tighten them and not have it shift in the mount. You don't need a bunch of fancy tools for a LT mount. Set of allen wrenches at Walmart is about $3. Try remounting it. |
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Nope there's still a gap at the top. I sat there and watched the guy install it according to directions. I don't usually like other people working on my stuff so I made sure to the point I was irritating him. I agree about the pressure and flex being relative. The only gauge I can give you is when pushing down I used my index finger under the hand guard and my thumb on the top of the scope and it flexed about 1/16-1/8th of an inch. I'll try to get an exact measurement now. If you said you perceive some flex, I could see it, but a 1/16th of an inch is huge. Do you have the tools included with the mount? You could loosen one ring at a time and re-tighten them and not have it shift in the mount. You don't need a bunch of fancy tools for a LT mount. Set of allen wrenches at Walmart is about $3. Try remounting it. It comes with a T15 Torx 'L' wrench.... 
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I've got all the tools I need but what would remounting it or loosening and tightening one ring at a time accomplish? (not sarcasm or anything, that's an actual question) I used a tiny ruler and it does have about 1/16" in of flex at the farthest point.
Here's a picture of what's in my FOV now. I had a pretty hard time getting it so its not super great. You can actually see a good bit more of my weapon light when actually viewing through the scope. 
Heres the best picture I could get of the mount. I also couldn't get a good angle on this so it doesn't show the downward angle too great but it shows it a little. 
Pictures suck because I've got Bronchitis and the meds make me shaky. |
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The Vortex Razor HDII 1-6x at 1x is pretty wide angle and you should be able to see both your front BUIS and handguard mounted weapon light. I can see both at 1x using my own Trijicon 1-4x scope mounted on a LT104. So there is nothing strange there. I see nothing wrong looking at the mount but for the type of problem you seem to be experiencing, this type of picture has limited use. I would be very hesitant to say any LaRue product was "less durable” as durability and ability to maintain zero is the hall mark of their product. Would a SPR-E be theoretically more flexible than a LT-104, sure. Should the SPR-E flex as much as you say you are experiencing, probably not. So not being there and not having both mounts to compare locally, I come back to my earlier answer which is does it hold zero and have you called to talk to LaRue? |
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The Vortex Razor HDII 1-6x at 1x is pretty wide angle and you should be able to see both your front BUIS and handguard mounted weapon light. I can see both at 1x using my own Trijicon 1-4x scope mounted on a LT104. So there is nothing strange there.
I see nothing wrong looking at the mount but for the type of problem you seem to be experiencing, this type of picture has limited use. I would be very hesitant to say any LaRue product was "less durable” as durability and ability to maintain zero is the hall mark of their product. Would a SPR-E be theoretically more flexible than a LT-104, sure. Should the SPR-E flex as much as you say you are experiencing, probably not. So not being there and not having both mounts to compare locally, I come back to my earlier answer which is does it hold zero and have you called to talk to LaRue? The issue is that I couldn't see it before. It was one of the key things I checked when I decided to stick with this optic full time over my Eotech. I didn't really think the picture would work too well but I figured I'd try. I haven't called LaRue yet because I know they'll swap it out and I don't want to waste their time and resources if its something wrong with the optic. (someone else suggested something with the glass being knocked out of position?) Also I want to know whether I would be better off asking them if they would swap it out for the LT104 since it doesn't seem like it would be to possible to bend. While I've been gentle with the rifle since I got this optic, it's only because I've been testing and breaking in my new barrel. Once that's done I'll go back to using the rifle like I did before the barrel, which is pretty rough. So if being extended so far makes it more likely to bend I would want to go the more durable route. |
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I have my scoped AR in my hands right now. There its ZERO flex in the LT139. One would need a large hammer to bend it and then the damage would be obvious. Unless the locking levers are not correctly tightened, I can't see an issue. I just now went and tightened the locking levers some more because I had loosened them up a month or so ago because they were digging into the finish, but that didn't stop the flex. I tried tightening them to the point could barely open the levers (had to use a dillo tail) and it still flexes the same amount. Is it possible I just got a bad batch of aluminum? I had that happen with a knife, at least that's what the manufacturer said. |
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It’s interesting that you said "that I couldn’t see it before”. FWIW, I never notice the light or front BUIS on mine either but that was because I usually concentrate on the target. When I went to look for you, both were clearly visible and it was like the first time I have seen it. I think the fact is with ANY 1x scope, you will see both items and you should only be surprised if you don’t see them. |
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To clarify when I switched from an Eotech, which I loved, to a magnified optic I was very wary that it would screw with my close in shot times. So before I ever zeroed and decided to keep it, I specifically looked at whether I could see anything on the rifle and I couldn't. I was actually more worried about seeing the BUIS since the light is mounted off to the side but I could never see either. So it's not an all of a sudden I noticed it kind of thing. I did end up calling LaRue today and they said they would inspect it. I'm wondering if I should go ahead and send the scope to Vortex to be checked out too. I think I remember Vortex telling me that their turn around was like 4-6 weeks or something which is kind of too long in my opinion. Does anyone know LaRue's turn around time for this stuff?
The guy on the phone said he didn't really know anything technical about the mount, which is weird because he was tech support, but he said he's only had 2 that have bent and it should still be as strong as the 104. What I'm wondering though is if the mount can flex that much with so little pressure wouldn't my accuracy during rapid fire be effected by the mount flexing from shot to shot similar to barrel whip? |
This is normal. I have the same set up on my wife's 3gun rig and I can see the tube and thumb if I use the thumb over bore grip. I cant see it with magnification. I didnt notice it when i was zeroing due to running mag. Then the first time i shot it on zero power i was like  now I kinda like it.
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Sorry OP, but as everybody is telling you, with a 1x scope, there is no way that you cannot see the front BUIS and the hand guard mounted light. The only way that could have happened is if you had it mounted at some crazy angle or backwards, both of which is unlikely. |
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Sorry OP, but as everybody is telling you, with a 1x scope, there is no way that you cannot see the front BUIS and the hand guard mounted light. The only way that could have happened is if you had it mounted at some crazy angle or backwards, both of which is unlikely.
Well even in the picture I posted of the view through my optic, you can't see the front BUIS or the hand guard as everyone says they can on their own ARs, so obviously there's something different with my set up. It may just be that its not mounted on an AR it's an ACR I'm not sure why that would be but like I said even in the picture I posted I don't have the what some are saying they have in their view. Either way my question wasn't whether something has changed in the FOV of my scope, it has. My questions were how can I tell if there is an issue with my scope, as someone in the optics forum suggested, and how can I measure whether or not the mount is bent. I also asked about the effects of the flexing on accuracy during rapid fire and the strength of the SPR-E compared to the 104. |
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I can understand with an ACR you might not see the BUIS, but I think the reason we are skeptical as it relates to your claim that you could not see the BUIS and light before but can see it now is the degree of shift the scope has to have undergone for this to happen. This of course completely relates to your question of an issue with your scope because something that can shift that much is obviousely problematic. There is no way I know of to measure how much bending a scope is going through except as already mentioned shooting the gun and measuring a shift in the POI.
Really if you bench your gun with the scope on it i.e. mount the combo so that the gun cannot move and look through the scope. If your mount is as flexible as you say it is, when you look at where the cross hair is, it will move wildly if it bends 1/16”. Not much more I can do to help. Good luck with the mount. |
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Both the mount and the optic are fairly new and have only been out for 3 matches and it hasn't been dropped ever. Did it zero OK? Has zero shifted over the 3 matches? Has zero shifted since then? Actually the zero did shift between the 1st 2 matches. The first match I zeroed before the match and then I couldn't hit crap during the match 3 hours later and was allowed to restart with my Eotech instead. I figured it was just my inexperience with zeroing a magnified optic and I posted a few threads somewhere about zeroing it. As far as I can tell though it wasn't my zeroing because I did another optic with the same distance and method with zero issues. The second match went fine but between that and the 3rd match I swapped out the barrel with a 14in, so I obviously had to re-zero then. I did seem to not be as on target during the second stage of the 3rd match but that's hard to verify since the targets were like 3"x4" steel plates and clay pigeons at 50yrds. But during testing the barrel did show 1-1.5MOA so it shouldn't have been an issue. Also my hammered pairs during the pre-match drills I ran grew from staying in the A-ring to 1 in the A and 1 in the D. I contributed this from switch from the SJC Titan brake to the Surefire brake. But it is what made me wonder about the mount flexing affecting rapid fire accuracy with a barrel whip-like effect. So the overall answer is I don't really know for sure  .
I did contact Vortex as well because the scope's dot has become blurred and I've had to readjust the eye piece several times. So I'm having both the optic and the mount tested. So hopefully I'll get this figured out. Before it goes out though I'm going to recheck the zero this weekend. How long does LaRue usually take to send back items the inspect? And off topic but does anyone know which affect/effect is used for what? No one can give me an answer. |
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Both the mount and the optic are fairly new and have only been out for 3 matches and it hasn't been dropped ever. Did it zero OK? Has zero shifted over the 3 matches? Has zero shifted since then? Actually the zero did shift between the 1st 2 matches. The first match I zeroed before the match and then I couldn't hit crap during the match 3 hours later and was allowed to restart with my Eotech instead. I figured it was just my inexperience with zeroing a magnified optic and I posted a few threads somewhere about zeroing it. As far as I can tell though it wasn't my zeroing because I did another optic with the same distance and method with zero issues. The second match went fine but between that and the 3rd match I swapped out the barrel with a 14in, so I obviously had to re-zero then. I did seem to not be as on target during the second stage of the 3rd match but that's hard to verify since the targets were like 3"x4" steel plates and clay pigeons at 50yrds. But during testing the barrel did show 1-1.5MOA so it shouldn't have been an issue. Also my hammered pairs during the pre-match drills I ran grew from staying in the A-ring to 1 in the A and 1 in the D. I contributed this from switch from the SJC Titan brake to the Surefire brake. But it is what made me wonder about the mount flexing affecting rapid fire accuracy with a barrel whip-like effect. So the overall answer is I don't really know for sure .
I did contact Vortex as well because the scope's dot has become blurred and I've had to readjust the eye piece several times. So I'm having both the optic and the mount tested. So hopefully I'll get this figured out. Before it goes out though I'm going to recheck the zero this weekend. How long does LaRue usually take to send back items the inspect? And off topic but does anyone know which affect/effect is used for what? No one can give me an answer. Well it took two days for my returned rings to get there but the shipping invoice says it will take over a week to get back to me. |
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Both the mount and the optic are fairly new and have only been out for 3 matches and it hasn't been dropped ever. Did it zero OK? Has zero shifted over the 3 matches? Has zero shifted since then? Actually the zero did shift between the 1st 2 matches. The first match I zeroed before the match and then I couldn't hit crap during the match 3 hours later and was allowed to restart with my Eotech instead. I figured it was just my inexperience with zeroing a magnified optic and I posted a few threads somewhere about zeroing it. As far as I can tell though it wasn't my zeroing because I did another optic with the same distance and method with zero issues. The second match went fine but between that and the 3rd match I swapped out the barrel with a 14in, so I obviously had to re-zero then. I did seem to not be as on target during the second stage of the 3rd match but that's hard to verify since the targets were like 3"x4" steel plates and clay pigeons at 50yrds. But during testing the barrel did show 1-1.5MOA so it shouldn't have been an issue. Also my hammered pairs during the pre-match drills I ran grew from staying in the A-ring to 1 in the A and 1 in the D. I contributed this from switch from the SJC Titan brake to the Surefire brake. But it is what made me wonder about the mount flexing affecting rapid fire accuracy with a barrel whip-like effect. So the overall answer is I don't really know for sure .
I did contact Vortex as well because the scope's dot has become blurred and I've had to readjust the eye piece several times. So I'm having both the optic and the mount tested. So hopefully I'll get this figured out. Before it goes out though I'm going to recheck the zero this weekend. How long does LaRue usually take to send back items the inspect? And off topic but does anyone know which affect/effect is used for what? No one can give me an answer. Well it took two days for my returned rings to get there but the shipping invoice says it will take over a week to get back to me. Are you serious? The made it seem like it would be a same day thing. He actually said it would be shipped back to be the same day they recieve it. Shipping from them usually takes 3 days. |
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Well I have kind of a sucky update. I sent the optic back to Vortex to be checked out and the mount back to LaRue. Before sending the shipping label the guy at LaRue said the only time he's heard of this mount being bent or damaged is when it was dropped from a tower and seemed like it was a waste to have them check it out. Vortex said the same thing but wanted to check it out to make sure. They also wanted to tweak it for competition and they rushed it for me. It took about 2 days as opposed to 10.
Well both companies called me back; the optic is fine and they're putting it on the truck today. LaRue said the mount is bent and that it must have been dropped so they wont cover it. I explained that it wasn't dropped or even used in a harsh way and they said they would get back to me. But unless the tech changes what they said they won't cover it. The engineer at Vortex is sending me a letter verifying that it doesn't appear to have ever been dropped or abused. I'd find it hard to believe that an optic can be fine but the mount bent if it was dropped or damaged. I'm irritated for several reasons. 1. This is my first test of LaRue's great customer service and warranty. 2. When ordering and again when I sent it back I was told that there is no way to bend this mount "short of an IED or 60ft drop." I babied it while I've been breaking in my new barrel. How is this mount deployable?? I don't think that if normal range use can bend it, I could trust it over seas or even during a match. 3. I am honestly surprised and disappointed that it was the mount. I guess I just had a lot of blind faith. But I'm also surprised and disappointed that I'm getting blown off. I understand that they can't listen to every one that tells them they didn't drop it but with how slight the bend is and with no marks or scratches or any signs of abuse and the optic being perfect you would think they could tell enough to take my word for it. Honestly if I made mounts for the military and LEO or just period then I wouldn't want people to think you can't drop it or bump and you have to baby it. I may be babying it right now and I haven't dropped it yet, but I will. As soon as my barrel is broken in this optic will see hard use. I need something durable which is why I went for LaRue. I was already apprehensive about such a long extension on the mount, but when they gave me a speech about it taking an IED or 60ft drop I assumed it was good to go. I need to know what I have can fall in the dirt and be ok or at least survive a table or transport in a padded case. I'm not exactly getting that kind of confidence now that the sales pitch is over. I'm basically being told that my mount is more delicate than my optic and it's not for hard use or even mild use. The most rough handling this mount and optic have had were in a Larue Covert case in my trunk with another Covert case on top of it. Even at the match it was on a table between stages and there was only 1 rifle stage with 50 shots. For my mount to be bent and me being told that it was user damage, I at least think the optic should be a bad off as the mount. But it doesn't even have any scratches on it let alone the dents or gouges that one would expect with dropping a mount hard enough to bend a mount.. I know some on here will say that I must have dropped it, but just go look at the pictures I posted in this thread, it's all in perfect condition. Not even any scratches or dirt. Not just that, if it had been dropped I wouldn't be concerned with hiding it because like I said, it should be able to take hard use for what its made for. But again it's been under only light use typically on a table. If I had dropped it, then my post wouldn't be wondering what happened it would be me being pissed that that's all it took to bend this. But I haven't dropped it, or banged it or squished it or tweaked it. Nothing. I tabled it and padded cased it. I'll admit that I believe this is a fluke with the mount at this time but that's not what's being conveyed to me. We're getting furloughed here and I just paid tuition for summer classes so just buying a new mount and chalking this up to a fluke is out. Also it seems like my worries about the long extension being weak with design might have been right either way. I'm thinking that the SPR-E mount isn't durable and according to what they are implying may need to be for gentle use only. So if they decide to exchange it I may request the LT104 in its place. If they don't exchange it I'm screwed for the next 2-3 months and I would have to say I've lost my faith in the company and the mount. Thoughts, opinions or solutions? |
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Both the mount and the optic are fairly new and have only been out for 3 matches and it hasn't been dropped ever. Did it zero OK? Has zero shifted over the 3 matches? Has zero shifted since then? Actually the zero did shift between the 1st 2 matches. . What happened between the two matches? Someone droppped your rifle? |
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Both the mount and the optic are fairly new and have only been out for 3 matches and it hasn't been dropped ever. Did it zero OK? Has zero shifted over the 3 matches? Has zero shifted since then? Actually the zero did shift between the 1st 2 matches. . What happened between the two matches? Someone droppped your rifle? What you cut off gives a little more detail but no no one dropped my rifle. And if it had dropped hard enough to bend the mount, I would expect more damage to the scope than the mount. Like I said it's been babied while I break in the new barrel. |
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Here the thing. In your OP, you said "Ihave the SPR-E LT139 mounting a Vortex Razor HDII 1-6x. I picked the rifle up today and it seems that somehow between last week and now somehow something's bent downward. When you look through it now you can see my weapon light and my hand.” So I have to take this at face value which is when you originally use the scope/mount combo, it was not like this and something happened to cause this. Assuming I take what you said at face value i.e. you did not damage the mount, then it has to be that someone or something damaged it after you brought it. In light of this, it is hard to assume that LaRue should replace the mount. If I were you, I would do some investigating as to what or who might be responsible at your end. |
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Here the thing. In your OP, you said "Ihave the SPR-E LT139 mounting a Vortex Razor HDII 1-6x. I picked the rifle up today and it seems that somehow between last week and now somehow something's bent downward. When you look through it now you can see my weapon light and my hand.” So I have to take this at face value which is when you originally use the scope/mount combo, it was not like this and something happened to cause this. Assuming I take what you said at face value i.e. you did not damage the mount, then it has to be that someone or something damaged it after you brought it. In light of this, it is hard to assume that LaRue should replace the mount. If I were you, I would do some investigating as to what or who might be responsible at your end.
Are you forgetting about the flex in the mount? Or does that go against your Fanboy beliefs? If the OP said the rifle wasn't dropped, I believe him. If someone else dropped it, the scope would have a broken objective lens...If the amount of force required to bend the mount is as great as they say. Sounds like a weak mount that got fucked up under continuous recoil. Even good companies can have a lemon, every once in a while
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Quoted: Dude, you are either a troll or someone who knows nothing about what you are talking about.Quoted: Here the thing. In your OP, you said "Ihave the SPR-E LT139 mounting a Vortex Razor HDII 1-6x. I picked the rifle up today and it seems that somehow between last week and now somehow something's bent downward. When you look through it now you can see my weapon light and my hand.” So I have to take this at face value which is when you originally use the scope/mount combo, it was not like this and something happened to cause this. Assuming I take what you said at face value i.e. you did not damage the mount, then it has to be that someone or something damaged it after you brought it. In light of this, it is hard to assume that LaRue should replace the mount. If I were you, I would do some investigating as to what or who might be responsible at your end. Are you forgetting about the flex in the mount? Or does that go against your Fanboy beliefs? If the OP said the rifle wasn't dropped, I believe him. If someone else dropped it, the scope would have a broken objective lens...If the amount of force required to bend the mount is as great as they say. Sounds like a weak mount that got fucked up under continuous recoil. Even good companies can have a lemon, every once in a while |
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Here the thing. In your OP, you said "Ihave the SPR-E LT139 mounting a Vortex Razor HDII 1-6x. I picked the rifle up today and it seems that somehow between last week and now somehow something's bent downward. When you look through it now you can see my weapon light and my hand.” So I have to take this at face value which is when you originally use the scope/mount combo, it was not like this and something happened to cause this. Assuming I take what you said at face value i.e. you did not damage the mount, then it has to be that someone or something damaged it after you brought it. In light of this, it is hard to assume that LaRue should replace the mount. If I were you, I would do some investigating as to what or who might be responsible at your end.
According to LaRue and the other members in this thread there is nothing that could bend this mount without causing visible devastating damage. And there is none at all. Plus these are advertised as being tough enough for use during deployment. If this mount can bend without damaging or even scratching the typically more delicate optic or the mount then I don't think I would ever take this particular model mount over seas or in even in the back of a patrol car. I think there may have been just something with my particular mount since I've been able to flex it ever since I got it in and everyone says that's abnormal. Also it was never out of my sight at the matches. The only time it was out my sight was in my trunk, in an LT Covert Case with another Covert Case on top. Nearest I can tell, it happened between the match and getting home. It was fine at the match before it got packed up and it went straight from my trunk to where its stored. I can't think of anything that could damage a normal high quality mount in a padded case in a small trunk short of an actual accident. By saying someone must have dropped it, but somehow in a way that didn't even scratch the mount or the optic, caused the mount to bend, it's saying that this mount is very delicate and made with a poor quality metal. We all know that's not the case with LaRue mounts. In fact the whole 1st page and part of the second was spent arguing that its next to impossible to bend this mount and that "One would need a large hammer to bend it and then the damage would be obvious. " Not it may have gotten squished in a padded case in your trunk by another 15lb padded case on top of it. You need to pick your argument. Either it's a super durable high end hard use part or it's fragile and I need to baby it. I'm not comfortable with a mount that can be bent with so little effort and so small of an impact that it shows no signs of ever being dropped or damaged whatsoever to the optic or the mount. And I don't think anyone else would either which is why we buy from LaRue in the first place. Here is the letter from the engineer at Vortex certifying that there are no signs of damage or abuse whatsoever. Even LaRue said there wasn't any visible damage to the mount. Not just that, I posted pictures of the whole set up in this thread and everyone said it looked fine and was nothing as well as statements similar to the quote mentioned above. I can't say what happened to cause this but I can say that it definitely wasn't dropped. Nor am I capable of dropping it in a way that should bend such a high end and reputable mount. Any mount good enough for combat shouldn't be able to be bent without tremendous impact that should also damage the optic. When I was in the Army I can't say how many times my weapon hit a rock or a truck or the ground. My rifle looked like shit after a while and so did its optic. I couldn't have used a mount that was irreparably damaged by something so insignificant that there is no way of telling anything ever happened to it or the optic. I don't think this is indicative of LaRue at all so don't get me wrong. Everything I have of theirs is indestructible. Vortex letter .... From: Houstin Smith VX Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 10:11 AM To: Stephanie Lang VX Subject: RZR 1-6 RZR 1-6x24 : ( Blurry dot/ FOV shift ) Tested and checked unit. All functions are normal and in good working order. Optics meet clarity test, travel and tracking are normal and meet specs. Parallax set at 100 yards. Cleaned checked and purged scope. Re greased mag. knob for easier turning. Scope does not have any apparent damage. ( e.i. dropped or incorrect mounting ) Advise: For easier use of mag. recommend use of Vortex Switch View. Houstin Smith Vortex Optics Riflescope Repairs 2120 W. Greenview Dr. Middleton,WI 53562 (608)-836-9594 [email protected] |
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Dude, you are either a troll or someone who knows nothing about what you are talking about.
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Here the thing. In your OP, you said "Ihave the SPR-E LT139 mounting a Vortex Razor HDII 1-6x. I picked the rifle up today and it seems that somehow between last week and now somehow something's bent downward. When you look through it now you can see my weapon light and my hand.” So I have to take this at face value which is when you originally use the scope/mount combo, it was not like this and something happened to cause this. Assuming I take what you said at face value i.e. you did not damage the mount, then it has to be that someone or something damaged it after you brought it. In light of this, it is hard to assume that LaRue should replace the mount. If I were you, I would do some investigating as to what or who might be responsible at your end.
Are you forgetting about the flex in the mount? Or does that go against your Fanboy beliefs? If the OP said the rifle wasn't dropped, I believe him. If someone else dropped it, the scope would have a broken objective lens...If the amount of force required to bend the mount is as great as they say. Sounds like a weak mount that got fucked up under continuous recoil. Even good companies can have a lemon, every once in a while So assuming I'm "Someone who knows nothing" please explain which part I was so wrong about. Was it the Flexing that OP described? Your Fanboy love? That the mount was not dropped? Or a weak mount left the factory? Please educated me
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Dude, you are either a troll or someone who knows nothing about what you are talking about.
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Here the thing. In your OP, you said "Ihave the SPR-E LT139 mounting a Vortex Razor HDII 1-6x. I picked the rifle up today and it seems that somehow between last week and now somehow something's bent downward. When you look through it now you can see my weapon light and my hand.” So I have to take this at face value which is when you originally use the scope/mount combo, it was not like this and something happened to cause this. Assuming I take what you said at face value i.e. you did not damage the mount, then it has to be that someone or something damaged it after you brought it. In light of this, it is hard to assume that LaRue should replace the mount. If I were you, I would do some investigating as to what or who might be responsible at your end.
Are you forgetting about the flex in the mount? Or does that go against your Fanboy beliefs? If the OP said the rifle wasn't dropped, I believe him. If someone else dropped it, the scope would have a broken objective lens...If the amount of force required to bend the mount is as great as they say. Sounds like a weak mount that got fucked up under continuous recoil. Even good companies can have a lemon, every once in a while No need for hostilities. He didn't say anything to make him a troll, it just sounds like he actually read the posts. And he's right, even great companies get bad batches of metals. No one is disputing LaRue is a great company. They are and I will continue to buy all of my mounts and whatever else from them. But I can't say I would buy this mount again. In fact if they swap it out I'll be looking to exchange it or sell it to get the LT104 mount that I'm more confident in. |
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OP, nothing personal against you, as you can see in all my post to you, just trying to give you ideas of what might have gone wrong. For instance, I agree that something has to have happened to cause that damage because as I quoted you, it was not damaged before but it was at the time of your first post. I have been asked what could have happened – so here are some examples. For instance, someone could have accidentally pushed hard against the scope i.e. if they accidentally tripped over your rifle and try to grab it but instead fall themselves and in the process grabbing hold of the scope. When the gun hit the ground, their weight would be on the scope and so transferred to the mount. In that instance, something has to take the blunt of the weight and it could have been the mount. Not saying that is what happened but giving you an example where the scope could still be good but the mount could still be damaged. Another possibility is intentional damage by someone for whatever reason. We never like to think this kind of thing would happen to us but we all know that it does. Think about it for a second, if you want to intentionally damage the mount without damaging the scope, can you do it? I know I can. So you see, it is possible for the mount to be damaged without damage to the scope. I call JoelAC89 a troll because to me he did not offer anything useful but started to call names "Fanboy” which is a good way to start a fight -this is what trolls do. This despite the fact that I offer you a reasonable idea as to why the mount could have been damaged. Yes, that is right - no one who knows anything about LaRue mounts would believe that it could be damaged by "continuous recoil”. Yes, before someone calls me a "Fanboy” again, I do believe good companies can have a lemon, and I would include LaRue there but for them to put out something so weak that it could be damaged by recoil? No, it is not possible and it is as simple as that. |
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OP, nothing personal against you, as you can see in all my post to you, just trying to give you ideas of what might have gone wrong. For instance, I agree that something has to have happened to cause that damage because as I quoted you, it was not damaged before but it was at the time of your first post.
I have been asked what could have happened – so here are some examples. For instance, someone could have accidentally pushed hard against the scope i.e. if they accidentally tripped over your rifle and try to grab it but instead fall themselves and in the process grabbing hold of the scope. When the gun hit the ground, their weight would be on the scope and so transferred to the mount. In that instance, something has to take the blunt of the weight and it could have been the mount. Not saying that is what happened but giving you an example where the scope could still be good but the mount could still be damaged. Another possibility is intentional damage by someone for whatever reason. We never like to think this kind of thing would happen to us but we all know that it does. Think about it for a second, if you want to intentionally damage the mount without damaging the scope, can you do it? I know I can. So you see, it is possible for the mount to be damaged without damage to the scope.
I call JoelAC89 a troll because to me he did not offer anything useful but started to call names "Fanboy” which is a good way to start a fight -this is what trolls do. This despite the fact that I offer you a reasonable idea as to why the mount could have been damaged. Yes, that is right - no one who knows anything about LaRue mounts would believe that it could be damaged by "continuous recoil”. Yes, before someone calls me a "Fanboy” again, I do believe good companies can have a lemon, and I would include LaRue there but for them to put out something so weak that it could be damaged by recoil? No, it is not possible and it is as simple as that. I'm not offended by anything you're saying. It's been thought out, non-confrontational and respectful. I'm just pointing out that before the update everyone was claiming that bending the mount would be impossible and now it seems it could be even a small bump. I get what you're saying with the situations you listed but those aren't possible either. For one the rifle never left my sight. I even slung it on my chest to go take a piss and my wife stood with it when I did the shotgun and pistol stages. It wasn't in a rack or barrel in a position to fall or be tripped over it was in the middle of a large carpeted table. To fall on it someone would have to be walking on the table. It also was fine when I left the match. I shot it on the last stage and carried it straight to its case. Also none of the situations listed would be acceptable reasons to damage a mount in my opinion. A rifle during normal combat patrols, patrol car use or competition use will sustain more abuse than you listed. The mount needs to be robust enough to handle that type of use. I'm also not sure I could bend a mount without damaging the scope or the mount short of dismantling it and using a vise. If I thought it was dropped I would be complaining that dropping it bent the mount and I expected more. But it wasn't dropped or kicked or messed with. I have no idea what happened but the 1/16in of flex is an abnormality that seemingly no one else has. That right there would point to weak metal. I could see that. Calling people a fanboy is out of line. Regardless of this situation, LaRue still has my business and trust, just not necessarily in this model mount or their warranty. But they have fans because they deserve them. I'm one of them. On the other hand this guy seems to be one of the only ones actually reading the whole thread. The whole tone has changed from "you're wrong you can't possibly damage this mount" to "you need to be gentle with this and you must have bumped into it." |
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I call JoelAC89 a troll because to me he did not offer anything useful but started to call names "Fanboy” which is a good way to start a fight -this is what trolls do. This despite the fact that I offer you a reasonable idea as to why the mount could have been damaged. Yes, that is right - no one who knows anything about LaRue mounts would believe that it could be damaged by "continuous recoil”. Yes, before someone calls me a "Fanboy” again, I do believe good companies can have a lemon, and I would include LaRue there but for them to put out something so weak that it could be damaged by recoil? No, it is not possible and it is as simple as that. You can call me whatever you like, the point still stands that you're a fanboy 1. It must be a fake 2. You had to of dropped it 3. Someone else dropped it 4. Well some did a spetsnaz pushup with it And my "continuous recoil" comment was based off it being defective in the first place. Weak metal getting weaker under recoil, isn't that possible? Now I love me some LT products, and all of my mounts have been rock solid and always return to zero. So unlike alot of the "Trolls" that pop in here, I own the products and will continue to buy them. |
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I would say that if I had said all those four things then I am likely a fanboy. But the reality is I only mentioned two and those are indeed possibility and ONLY because you ask how the mount could be damaged because the scope was it. At least according to the OP, it was working before (he shot it at a match right?) but it somehow mysteriously got bent? He was with it 100% of the time during the match - Really? In order for a scope mount (from any maker) to get bent due to recoil, it would have to be made of ultra thin, ultra soft aluminum or some sort of soft metal and you would think, 1) the maker, 2) the OP when he first got it, 3) the gunsmith that mounted the scope one would notice this? Think about all this and then wonder why someone is having trouble supporting this for a return. If someone supports LaRue in a specific instance, it does not mean he is a fanboy as I am sure if you own their product you have made complimentary comments in the past. For the record, I own LaRue products, have enjoyed them due to their quality but also have had trouble occasionally with their staff over the phone - yes, there are people over there who are the occational asshole. However, that does not mean I would bash them or shower them with unreasonable compliment for that matter. I am no more of a fanboy than you are – just trying to help the OP and I wish you would keep your comments to yourself if you are not out to help the OP. If you are sick of listening to fanboys on this board - fine, you are not the only one but that is not a reason to open fire on full auto.... |