[ARCHIVED THREAD] - conv kit FTE (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/11/2010 2:26:13 PM EDT
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I have a new CMMG parked 22 conv kit. It is jamming after every shot. I read the trouble shooting. does the 200 round break in period usually consist of every other round jamming. Is this normal. It seems extreme even for a break in period.
S&W M&P15 CMMG mags remington .22lr ....it is federal. cleaned and oiled kit prior to use I stopped after about 45 rounds because jamming was so bad. I had to pull the conv out several times to remove jammed shells. |
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Get a bulk pack of Federal .22 from Wal Mart, and try that. I believe CMMG recommends that particular ammo, and they say that's what it is designed to perform with. I have their stainless kit and it has worked flawlessly in 1K rounds in my CMMG build. Check the trouble shooting section tacked above. We do recommend not using ammo. It is definitely prone to malfunctions. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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We do recommend not using ammo. It is definitely prone to malfunctions. These phones are sure handy but I end up typing the dumbest things: D. Anyway, steer clear of rem ammo. Problems are generally ammo, hammer or chamber related. Um... what? 
I think you mean Remington 22LR? Yeah that stuff doesn't like semi autos. I  at that, too.
 Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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I have Federal not Remington.
I took it back out and ran another 75 rounds before it got dark. It seems to be looseing up. I will grab some better ammo tomorrow. I'll keep you informed. Quoted:
Check the trouble shooting section tacked above. We do recommend not using ammo. It is definitely prone to malfunctions Maybe i am missing something, but i couldn't find a list of ammo. |
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Today i shot 4 different .22lr ammo. I cleaned and oiled the bolt with CLP. I shot just over 300 more rounds.
- CCI mini-mag, jacketed ball, 40gr 1235 - FTE about 5 out of 10. I stopped after 75 rounds. Jamming was getting worse. - Federal Bulk. i already had this. ? FPS, but it is jacket with a divot in the tip, not a hollow point. FTE 5 out of 10. I quit this after about 75 rounds. - Winchester X Super Speed HP. 37gr JHP 1330 fps. Performed much better, but still FTE about 1 out of 5. Still not good enough. About 100 rounds. - Federal Game-shok 40gr jacketed ball, Performed best maybe 1 or 2 FTE out of every 10. Still not good enough. Over 100 rounds. 1 mag FTE every shot. The other 2 mags were as mentioned above. The 1 mag would not work...period. Edit: removed unneeded text |
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I haven't seen a .22 conversion yet that didn't require some tuning to get it to run properly and reliably.
Don't give up yet... check the troubleshooting thread and go from there. With that many FTE's.. I'm guessing the chamber may need a light polishing. Hang in there... and don't give up. I can run thru 3 BDM drum mags as fast as I can rip 'em off now... and it never misses a beat. Mine is a JAC kit, when I got my kit it was same story as you. Stick with it.. it's worth it. ETA.. does the ejected brass have scratches in it? Clean the chamber real good and look for any machining irregularities like a burr... or tool marks.. I woundup using a green stone from my Dremel kit and cleaning mine up by hand. Dremel takes way too much off, so I "stoned" my chamber and ramp by hand with a very fine, round stone. Then I chucked a Q-tip in my dremel and used Mother's mag and aluminum wheel polish to polish everything. Runs like a clock now... Check yours out and lets see what we can find before you give up... |
We sure want you up and going. If the three things(ammo, hammer or chamber) aren't the issue, we want the kit back. There is NO tuning with our kits. If you have buzzed the chamber as described, ensured you have the correct hammer, and are using ammo other than Remington and your kit still doesn't work, there is a good possibility you have a defective kit. If that is the case, we will send a call tag and get it replaced. We will have you shooting in no time. |
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I have made no mods to the kit nor have i tuned anything. Cleaned,oiled and shot. That is all i have done with this kit. I have shot 4 different ammos. The best ammo is still having FTE every 4 to 5 shot.
I have a rounded hammer. I checked this before i ordered. Edit: removed unneeded text |
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It sounds like you have done 2 of the 3 things we recommend. If buzzing it as described doesn't get it, you simply have a defective kit. If it was crudded from the get go, simply shooting it will not make it better. That said, defects happens periodically and we stand behind our product. We have a solid mechanism in place to take care of issues like this when they come up. I understand your frustration, when you buy a kit, sometimes things go wrong, it takes the fun out of shooting. We send out nearly 500 kits per week on average and every once in a while, something goes wrong. Do a search on here for those who have had issues. At the end of the day we consistently make things right. |
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Quoted: This is hularious. Your really saying a new item needs work by the purchaser to make it function normally. I will never purchase any CMMG item ever again. I will buzz it, but i am done with CMMG. CMMG has lost me as a customer. I have bought hundreds of items dealing with fire arms. I have never had a seller tell me to fix it myself. They have always been refunded or replaced without any problems. Either IM/email me with refund info or i will be claiming this on the BBB and what ever other facility at my disposal. People need to know. I don't care how much CMMG "makes it right", if i have to do it myself or jump thru hoops, it aint "makin it right". I am sorry for AR15.com and its members for this rant and my anger, but I just think "fix it yourself" is not right. No matter how easy the fix is. When something is paid for there is expectation of the item to work or be fixed by the manufacturer. A wise man once said .22 conversion kits run 100% 90% of the time. If you would have done some research, you would have found out that mostly all .22 kits need some tuning and breaking in. What kind of trigger/springs do you have in your gun? |
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Seriously, you need to get a grip. The instructions... A) Ensuring you have the correct hammer B) Making sure you run good ammo C) Cleaning the chamber according to manufactures recommendation ...are not unreasonable nor are they difficult. Basic care and maintenance will be required of anything gun related you ever purchase. Again if the above doesn't get it going, we will repair or replace it. You are making a mountain over a molehill. |
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Quoted: "Get a grip" forget you. I am done with CMMG. items should be sold with expection of them working not expectation that the buyer should fix the item themselves. It is failing 60% of the time. How much more ammo do i have to shoot, tweek, buzz etc. nice business model. they are not unreasonable, except for the fact is i bought a new kit. I should not have to finish the item. Basic care and maintenance will be required of anything gun related you ever purchase. Again if the above doesn't get it going, we will repair or replace it. You are making a mountain over a molehill. dont try to make me out as the bad guy, this is not basic care and maintenance. I am very good about gun maintenance and care. This is not basic care and maintenance. The kit did not work from first trigger pull. Big difference. you made it a mountain, by expecting customer to finish your crappy part. Really? The ABCs spelled out above constitute tweaks, fixing and finishing? They are really too much to ask? Wow. |
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At this point there is still nothing to fix. You have gone out to the range multiple times expecting a different result without doing all three of the simple steps we recommend. I simply cannot wrap my head around how you consider cleaning the chamber as we describe a "fix", "tweak" or "modification" . There is no point to miss. You cannot or will not follow the prescribed ABC instructions, so you get on the forums and throw a big fit. You are simply being ridiculous. |
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You posted a problem, we posted the solution. Here you stated that: "I went thru the break in period as stated. Still not functioning." Break in period will not clean the chamber (200 rnds)––-see step C. You stated that you have only tried the same thing over and over. Again, if there is a problem as you described, there are 3 simple steps to preform. A, B & C A: Hammer B: Ammo C: Cleaning the chamber according to the instructions (that's why they're there) You state: "My point is that a purchaser should not have to jump thru hoops to make a NEW part work." We cannot understand how cleaning the chamber is too hard. How is cleaning the chamber making you jump through hoops? We don't accept IM, you can email to [email protected] |
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will do. Please see email.
I will respond once i have completed step 3 and shot again. I am having trouble finding Federal jacketet round nose. I have a couple hundred of the cheaper Federal bulk with the divot (not hollow point). any other ammo work good enough to test? |
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I cleaned the kit with air. I buzzed the chamber. I chucked up a .22 brush and buzzed the chamber until it was warm. Visually the chamber had a nice shinny finish. Oiled the ejector and a light oil wipe down.
I tried several .22 ammo. Fed, Rem, Win High velocity, CCI Stinger. Between 200 and 250 rounds. The CCI ran the best with 1 FTE out of every 5. The others FTE every shot. Most empty casings would get smashed between the carrier and the chamber. Now what? |
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Dude, I know your frustration. I went through the same thing with another companies conversion. Had 2 of them. Neither one worked consistantly. And they had PAGES of tweaks and fixes. I tried them all. No go.
CMMG doesn't tell you to try all these fixes like the other company. E-mail them. You probably just got one of the few bad ones. They will send you put a new one. I have a CMMG stainless. I had 3 FTE's out of the first mag. It has been 100% since through 3 different AR's. E-mail them. They will make it right. Dave
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Quoted: I cleaned the kit with air. I buzzed the chamber. I chucked up a .22 brush and buzzed the chamber until it was warm. Visually the chamber had a nice shinny finish. Oiled the ejector and a light oil wipe down. I tried several .22 ammo. Fed, Rem, Win High velocity, CCI Stinger. Between 200 and 250 rounds. The CCI ran the best with 1 FTE out of every 5. The others FTE every shot. Most empty casings would get smashed between the carrier and the chamber. Now what? CShoot an email to tech support and we will issue a call tag. Box up your kit, attach the label and dump it off at UPS or with any driver. We will receive it, replace or repair it and ship it out(generally same day) |
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Quoted: I am glad that CMMG is going to fix or replace it. But i stand by what i said. With any kit you get, the correct hammer is a must, the correct ammo is a must, and the correct bore condition is a must. Keep that in mind when you go out shooting. We will keep an eye out for your kit. |
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Quoted: What about doubles (say once every 3rd cmmg 10 round magazine or so ) and are CMMG lowers tight and CMMG mags must be pulled out or are they supposed to drop free ??? doubles are either ammo, firing pin obstruction or bent frame. If you have had it apart it is likely the latter. We are putting together a huge resource that we will be posting that will get into all the things that we do before kits go out the door. It will cover stuff like this. |
| When will i get the info to ship it back. I emailed [email protected] yesterday. |
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Check your spam. If it is not their send another email.. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Wow, I don't get into the industry sections as much as I'd like. CMMG announcing their revolutionary Evolution System
has slowed the Rimfire Section to a drip. Well, I'm here now. This thread really caught my attention. I know the people at CMMG and have watched their product since it first came into being. I normally don't get involved in defending them over issues because they do right by everyone that needs their help. None of the companies that manufacture 22 conversions or dedicated uppers purposely lets a defective product out the door. In fact the majority of problems experienced by customers are self inflicted. Very few "Bad Units" reach the customers. Customers in some cases could screw up anything. I had a Brother in Law that could destroy anything in a days time. The use of the wrong ammo, lubricant or amount, holding the magazine when firing, disassembly of a conversion to clean it and many other things are about 90% of the failures experienced. I've had over 20 different conversion and dedicated bolts and fired nearly 100,000 rounds down range without any more than simply explainable and correctable malfunctions. Some even my fault. gotigers: You have obviously taken quite a few shots at CMMG and at one point stated that you stand by everything you've said. I see a lot of editing in the posts that you've made. Didn't stand long, I see... Man, CMMG has bent over backward to help you. I don't understand everything that's gone on here but I get the basic idea. Without all of this back and forth BS, you probably would be fixed, up and running and have a totally different opinion of CMMG. They've been on your side all along. There's been more patience shown here than I would have. Let them work their magic and get over this. I invite you to attack me, it's been done before and I'm still here. Or, I can be your friend and we can go beyond this, get on with life and be happily shooting. The choice is yours. Dave / SpecOps-13 PS: Edited only for Typo's |
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once again missing the point
I should not be told to tweek or fix or whatever something that is NEW. This wasn't the occasional FTE. IT was almost every shot. I was being generous with 60%, it was closer to 90%. It is not my gun. Last week i shot a friend's conv kit in my AR with out a single issue. The proper answer would have been, send it back. I spent 3 days doing exactly what they told me to do. I have the right to express my displeasure with the non-functioning NEW kit and with the response. I have never had a gun manufacturer tell me to tweek a new part before. That usually voids the warranty. I edited the un-needed text myself in a gesture of goodwill. I stand by the broke part should have been replaced not tweeked. Most i have spoke to agree with me. NEW broke part should have been replaced. I spent $40 on quality 22 ammo to keep testing after it was obvious the part was not going to function. I am happy for you that your ok with paying for junk and then being told to tweek it. I bet this is one out of 100, but it does not mean that this part is junk. my conscience is clear. edit: that enough stand by for you? |
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Quoted:
once again missing the point I should not be told to tweek or fix or whatever something that is NEW. This wasn't the occasional FTE. IT was almost every shot. I was being generous with 60%, it was closer to 90%. It is not my gun. Last week i shot a friend's conv kit in my AR with out a single issue. The proper answer would have been, send it back. I spent 3 days doing exactly what they told me to do. I have the right to express my displeasure with the non-functioning NEW kit and with the response. I have never had a gun manufacturer tell me to tweek a new part before. That usually voids the warranty. I edited the un-needed text myself in a gesture of goodwill. I stand by the broke part should have been replaced not tweeked. Most i have spoke to agree with me. NEW broke part should have been replaced. I spent $40 on quality 22 ammo to keep testing after it was obvious the part was not going to function. I am happy for you that your ok with paying for junk and then being told to tweek it. I bet this is one out of 100, but it does not mean that this part is junk. my conscience is clear. edit: that enough stand by for you? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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gotigers: Thank You, My Friend.
Dave Quoted:
it was obvious that over the last 2 days we resolved this. I hate that i react so poorly to the trolls coming in later and starting it up again. . I should have ignored it. I had 1 bad kit. They are going to fix it. No reason to continue this. edit: typos |
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Sorry for the troll crack..but this is between CMMG and i. After i became upset i should have handled it per email. I do not want to publicly air this any further.
I am truly sorry if i have offended any AR15.com members. I got a bent and should not have aired it publicly regardless of who is right or wrong. My bitchin for bitchin sake should have been kept to myself. That is why i edited the complaining. It wasnt helpful. The issue between CMMG and i is resolved. Edit: i do feel my "original" point was valid, but have lost that in getting angry thus a poorly conveyed point. |
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Quoted:
Seriously, you need to get a grip. The instructions... A) Ensuring you have the correct hammer B) Making sure you run good ammo C) Cleaning the chamber according to manufactures recommendation ...are not unreasonable nor are they difficult. Basic care and maintenance will be required of anything gun related you ever purchase. Again if the above doesn't get it going, we will repair or replace it. You are making a mountain over a molehill. Quoted:
At this point there is still nothing to fix. You have gone out to the range multiple times expecting a different result without doing all three of the simple steps we recommend. I simply cannot wrap my head around how you consider cleaning the chamber as we describe a "fix", "tweak" or "modification" . There is no point to miss. You cannot or will not follow the prescribed ABC instructions, so you get on the forums and throw a big fit. You are simply being ridiculous. |
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Quoted: Sorry for the troll crack..but this is between CMMG and i. After i became upset i should have handled it per email. I do not want to publicly air this any further. I am truly sorry if i have offended any AR15.com members. I got a bent and should not have aired it publicly regardless of who is right or wrong. My bitchin for bitchin sake should have been kept to myself. That is why i edited the complaining. It wasnt helpful. The issue between CMMG and i is resolved. Edit: i do feel my "original" point was valid, but have lost that in getting angry thus a poorly conveyed point. Glad they're taking care of you. |
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We received your kit and went ahead and sent you out a new one. Upon examining your kit, we noticed that the returned frame was bent out of spec from dis-assembly. Both ends of the frame that retains the chamber were bent outwards. This keeps the chamber adapter from being properly aligned and secured. Also there was an outward bow on one side of the frame and a downward wave on the other side of the frame. This combination prevents free travel of the bolt. You know the results. We put in the instructions DO NOT disassemble these kits. 90% of the returns we have are due to customers taking kits apart. This is a prime example. As for your new kit––the ABCs still apply. It will be arrive to you shortly. Keep to our recommendations and this thing will run like nobody's business.  |
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We received your kit and went ahead and sent you out a new one. Upon examining your kit, we noticed that the returned frame was bent out of spec from dis-assembly. Both ends of the frame that retains the chamber were bent outwards. This keeps the chamber adapter from being properly aligned and secured. Also there was an outward bow on one side of the frame and a downward wave on the other side of the frame. This combination prevents free travel of the bolt. You know the results.
We put in the instructions DO NOT disassemble these kits. 90% of the returns we have are due to customers taking kits apart. This is a prime example. As for your new kit––the ABCs still apply. It will be arrive to you shortly. Keep to our recommendations and this thing will run like nobody's business. I did not disassemble the kit. I shot, cleaned, "buzzed the chamber" ...that is it. End of discussion. Saying otherwise would be unwise on your part. IF it had been disassembled it was before i received it from Palmetto State Armory. |