Posted: 11/6/2009 1:34:46 PM EDT
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Installed the BAD lever earlier this week on my carbine. Took it out today to my land to do some functional testing.
120 rounds loaded randomly 3-8 rounds per mag to ensure it functioned correctly. There was one dead hay bale afterwards 
Unfortunately, the bolt hold open worked only about 50% of the time. Ammo: Winchester Frangible & Black Hills Blue Box. Mags: PMags, EMags, USGI with Magpul followers. Gun: Lower: Stock RRA, match trigger, standard buffer. Upper: RRA rcvr, CMMG Bbl, RRA bolt, Larue handguard The gun has functioned literally 100% with over 600 rounds through it before the addition of the BAD. I know that the bolt hold open is a delicate balance between opposing tensions of the mag spring and BHO spring and apparently the BAD throws it out of balance. Any suggestions? This is a way cool device and I want to make it work if at all possible. BTW: The Art of The Tactical Carbine is a great video and I used a number of lessons from it today. Will definately get volume 2. 
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| I had the same experiance with mine the first time out. I went to the range a couple days later with the hex key to remove it and try to isolate the problem. Couldn't repeat it. I have around 500 more rounds through it with probably 80 or so shot to bolt lock back. Locks back every time now. I have no idea..... |
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I had the same experiance with mine the first time out. I went to the range a couple days later with the hex key to remove it and try to isolate the problem. Couldn't repeat it. I have around 500 more rounds through it with probably 80 or so shot to bolt lock back. Locks back every time now. I have no idea..... That is wierd that you said that because that is what was happening to me before I ran out of ammo. It may be more of a break-in issue. But I am definately going to tighten up the mag relase and give it another try. For advice like that you deserve a Fresca 
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I'd try adding a turn to your magazine catch assembly if you can without it becoming too tight for the mags. That's a trick idea. Tighen up the tolerances of the mag to improve the function. That means I must go out to the land again and put more ammo into the hay bale. Thanks!
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Mine wouldn't hold the bolt back at all... Kind of frustrating especially when my buddies are saying, "What's up with that Noveske? My Bushmaster is working great!"
The B.A.D. is a good idea, but at the risk of not operating properly I think I'm going to take mine off. |
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Ok, I tightened my mag catch...
Get this, I let my buddy shoot my AR during my last range session. We were packing up and heading to the 300 meter range for some bolt action fun. I remember him asking me "do you want me to put this away." I said, sure and took for granted he cleared the weapon before putting it in its case. Well, you know as well as I to treat every weapon as if it's loaded... So, before I did any maintenance, in this case turning the mag catch one turn, I cleared my rifle. Imagine my surprise when I heard a round hitting the hardwood floor... Turns out, it had a round in the chamber. |
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I had some difficulty with my bolt not remaining locked back with the BAD. I found that you must put a lot of pressure into the lever when pulling the bolt back. As long as I do it with authority, I have to problem.
Just put some ass into it and you'll be good. |
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I had some difficulty with my bolt not remaining locked back with the BAD. I found that you must put a lot of pressure into the lever when pulling the bolt back. As long as I do it with authority, I have to problem. Just put some ass into it and you'll be good. Mine wasn't locking back while shooting it. I have no problems cycling the weapon manually and getting the bolt to stay open. |
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Dumb question... is your anti-rotation pin things contacting the bad lever? The KNS pins do not interfere with the BAD. I'm going on a Veterans Day shoot tomorrow to put it through it's paces again with the mag release tightened up and see how that works. Will keep you posted. |
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I'd try adding a turn to your magazine catch assembly if you can without it becoming too tight for the mags. That's a trick idea. Tighen up the tolerances of the mag to improve the function. That means I must go out to the land again and put more ammo into the hay bale. Thanks! Please explain "adding a turn to your magazine catch assembly" thanks!!!!! |
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I'd try adding a turn to your magazine catch assembly if you can without it becoming too tight for the mags. That's a trick idea. Tighen up the tolerances of the mag to improve the function. That means I must go out to the land again and put more ammo into the hay bale. Thanks! Please explain "adding a turn to your magazine catch assembly" thanks!!!!! You can either loosen or tighten the magazine catch my pushing the magazine relase button in fully with a screwdriver and turning the magazine catch the desired direction. I build AR's, and have always adjusted the mag catch to slightly below the release button. No reason, really, this is the way it was on my M-16 in the Army so it seemed good to me. By tighening the mag release you (potentially, hopefully) keep the magazine more secure in the mag well with less slop and jumping around when it fires. This would then (potentially, hopefully) result in more consistent activation of the bolt hold open when the mag is empty. The BAD adds weight to the bolt hold open and changes the delicate balance betweent the mag and BHO springs. Hopefully by securing the mag a little tigher the BAD will work. If not, too BAD. That was an awful pun.
I turned the mag catch two revolutions so that the mag catch screw head is slightly proud of the release button. |
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I'd try adding a turn to your magazine catch assembly if you can without it becoming too tight for the mags. That's a trick idea. Tighen up the tolerances of the mag to improve the function. That means I must go out to the land again and put more ammo into the hay bale. Thanks! Please explain "adding a turn to your magazine catch assembly" thanks!!!!! You can either loosen or tighten the magazine catch my pushing the magazine relase button in fully with a screwdriver and turning the magazine catch the desired direction. I build AR's, and have always adjusted the mag catch to slightly below the release button. No reason, really, this is the way it was on my M-16 in the Army so it seemed good to me. By tighening the mag release you (potentially, hopefully) keep the magazine more secure in the mag well with less slop and jumping around when it fires. This would then (potentially, hopefully) result in more consistent activation of the bolt hold open when the mag is empty. The BAD adds weight to the bolt hold open and changes the delicate balance betweent the mag and BHO springs. Hopefully by securing the mag a little tigher the BAD will work. If not, too BAD. That was an awful pun.
I turned the mag catch two revolutions so that the mag catch screw head is slightly proud of the release button. I've always been annoyed by how the surface of the mag release button sits proud of the guard that is supposed to prevent it from being accidentally pressed. I fire lefty, so it's particularly annoying having a piece of gear press the release when my weapon is slung. I tighten down the release until the surface of the button is about halfway between the level of the guard and the receiver. Then I file down the tip of the screw until it's below the surface of the button. The magazine release only requires a tiny amount of movement to drop the magazine. There's no point in having 5x that amount of movement available. And if tightening it up helps your BAD function, frickin' sweet. YMMV. |
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Rats!
Still only getting 50% bolt hold open with the mag catch turned in two rotations. Mags also don't drop out as easy either with it turned in so far. Oh well, never trade reliability for convenience. I'm not going to alter the bolt catch spring or anything else that may adversely affect the gun in some other way to try and make the BAD work. Unless the Magpul staff have some helpful tip, off it comes. I'll put it in the parts drawer for my next AR build and see if it works with that one. Once again, a good reminder: NEVER rely on your firearm after ANY modification until you have put some rounds through it. |
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I'd try adding a turn to your magazine catch assembly if you can without it becoming too tight for the mags. That's a trick idea. Tighen up the tolerances of the mag to improve the function. That means I must go out to the land again and put more ammo into the hay bale. Thanks! Please explain "adding a turn to your magazine catch assembly" thanks!!!!! You can either loosen or tighten the magazine catch my pushing the magazine relase button in fully with a screwdriver and turning the magazine catch the desired direction. I build AR's, and have always adjusted the mag catch to slightly below the release button. No reason, really, this is the way it was on my M-16 in the Army so it seemed good to me. By tighening the mag release you (potentially, hopefully) keep the magazine more secure in the mag well with less slop and jumping around when it fires. This would then (potentially, hopefully) result in more consistent activation of the bolt hold open when the mag is empty. The BAD adds weight to the bolt hold open and changes the delicate balance betweent the mag and BHO springs. Hopefully by securing the mag a little tigher the BAD will work. If not, too BAD. That was an awful pun.
I turned the mag catch two revolutions so that the mag catch screw head is slightly proud of the release button. Good explanation and that is what my thought was, but as you found out it's a balance. Too much can effect the magazine from falling freely. The good thing is that it doesn't hurt to try because you can always un-turn it. On a side note, when assembling a mag catch I put the catch flush with the face of the button - it comes out to be about seven turns of the catch. That is a good start and can be adjusted a turn either way at the range. |
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Rats! Still only getting 50% bolt hold open with the mag catch turned in two rotations. Mags also don't drop out as easy either with it turned in so far. Oh well, never trade reliability for convenience. I'm not going to alter the bolt catch spring or anything else that may adversely affect the gun in some other way to try and make the BAD work. Unless the Magpul staff have some helpful tip, off it comes. I'll put it in the parts drawer for my next AR build and see if it works with that one. Once again, a good reminder: NEVER rely on your firearm after ANY modification until you have put some rounds through it. Do you have a photo of the BAD installed on your rifle? ETA- A photo that shows the BAD closeup. |
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Rats! Still only getting 50% bolt hold open with the mag catch turned in two rotations. Mags also don't drop out as easy either with it turned in so far. Oh well, never trade reliability for convenience. I'm not going to alter the bolt catch spring or anything else that may adversely affect the gun in some other way to try and make the BAD work. Unless the Magpul staff have some helpful tip, off it comes. I'll put it in the parts drawer for my next AR build and see if it works with that one. Once again, a good reminder: NEVER rely on your firearm after ANY modification until you have put some rounds through it. Do you have a photo of the BAD installed on your rifle? ETA- A photo that shows the BAD closeup. Stickman and Ranier Arms have far better photos of the BAD than I could ever achieve. |
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Rats! Still only getting 50% bolt hold open with the mag catch turned in two rotations. Mags also don't drop out as easy either with it turned in so far. Oh well, never trade reliability for convenience. I'm not going to alter the bolt catch spring or anything else that may adversely affect the gun in some other way to try and make the BAD work. Unless the Magpul staff have some helpful tip, off it comes. I'll put it in the parts drawer for my next AR build and see if it works with that one. Once again, a good reminder: NEVER rely on your firearm after ANY modification until you have put some rounds through it. Do you have a photo of the BAD installed on your rifle? ETA- A photo that shows the BAD closeup. Stickman and Ranier Arms have far better photos of the BAD than I could ever achieve. You have a PM. |
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if stoner wanted that pos it would have been on m1 over Eugene Stoner was not a god. If it was done perfectly the first time, there would never have been an M16A1. Or an A2. Or an A4 for that matter, let alone the M4 series. If Stoner got it right on the first try, there would be no collapsable stock. No 30 roudn magazine. No quad rail. No forward assist, even. You don't like it, all you have to do is not install one. Unless you have a complete retro AR, there is not much room to argue it. . .. ... Oh, yeah. OUT. |
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Any thoughts from the Magpul guys on this issue? Is tightening the mag catch the right route? Are B.A.D. levers just not going to work on some guns? I have asked the OP for pictures both in this thread and via PM to get a better idea of what is going on but have not hear back. I have never seen a properly installed BAD lever cause failures to hold the bolt open in any of my testing. |
Please let me know if I'm doing something wrong, and how to fix it.
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Any thoughts from the Magpul guys on this issue? Is tightening the mag catch the right route? Are B.A.D. levers just not going to work on some guns? I have asked the OP for pictures both in this thread and via PM to get a better idea of what is going on but have not hear back. I have never seen a properly installed BAD lever cause failures to hold the bolt open in any of my testing. |
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Russ, thanks for getting a picture. It is important that the BAD lever not be able to make contact with any part of the lower. This is what I posted in another thread concerning the BAD.
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Because of the variation in bolt catch dimensions from one manufacturer to another sometimes there is void space around the outside of the bolt catch paddle. When the mounting screw is tightened it naturally rotates the front of the BAD lever clockwise and if void space around the paddle is present this allows the lever to rotate toward the magazine well. When used with a Redi-mod this rotation is even more apparent. I recommend applying pressure down (toward the trigger guard) an and slightly counterclockwise to the front of the BAD lever while tightening the mounting screw. See if that helps before modifying the BAD lever. Your BAD lever is rotated clockwise and looks like it may be able to contact the lower. If you look at this picture from Stick you will see that the BAD should be vertical which allows for clearance. 
Give my suggestion in the quote a try and see if that helps. |
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Please let me know if I'm doing something wrong, and how to fix it. http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae38/RussDXT/AR/DSC05165.jpg Quoted:
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Any thoughts from the Magpul guys on this issue? Is tightening the mag catch the right route? Are B.A.D. levers just not going to work on some guns? I have asked the OP for pictures both in this thread and via PM to get a better idea of what is going on but have not hear back. I have never seen a properly installed BAD lever cause failures to hold the bolt open in any of my testing. Sorry for the delay. I was out of town for a couple of days. Here is a side view: 
Here it is in the up position: 
And in the down position: 
The BAD does not touch the reciever at all at any position |
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I know... it's a pig. 600 rounds of suppressed and unsuppressed BSA drills the other day and haven't had time to clean it.
100% failure rate with the B.A.D. lever. Tried both suppressed and unsuppressed, loaded it up with CLP during drills as I thought it might have not been catching because it was getting dirty. I was using newish PMAGs, I say newish because I had gotten them new for the Magpul course up here this summer. They haven't been used much since. No luck with U.S.G.I. mags either. Did I install it wrong? 
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Seems like you'd want to make sure the bolt release was moving freely, that it was lubed, and that you had good mag springs. Maybe try a CMMG mag with those coil springs and see if it doesn't work better. My bolt release was/is absolutely moving freely and was working 100% of the time. Not until the addition of the B.A.D did I have issues. |
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UPDATE:
i just walked in from the range... 15 degrees out and light blowing snow. It was a chilly trip. Anyway, I made sure my B.A.D. was level and installed correctly and tightened my mag release two turns... I had a 99% success rate with the bolt locking to the rear unsuppressed and a 0% success rate with the bolt locking to the rear suppressed. All mags used were the same "newish" PMAGS. So, either I didn't have the B.A.D. installed correctly, but I didn't really move it at all... or the Mag catch is the trick. At least for running an unsuppressed weapon. I guess I'll have to get my hands on some different buffer weights to see if I can get it to function both suppressed and unsuppressed. |
| I've had 100% success with the bolt locking back with my BAD installed - approximately 600 rounds at this point. I had one PMAG stop locking the bolt back today, but that's a mag follower issue, nothing to do with the BAD, since my other PMAGs all hold the bolt open with no issues. |