So you guys bought up some property in Asia hoping to retire with the other Expats?

http://www.magpul-pts.com/

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=805728

Airball is fun,,,

Tag for official word...

I could just imagine that the Magpul team is on their way to Asia right not to straighten these fools out. LOL!

You have GOT to be kidding.

There was always the rumor floating around their molds came from Asia.


MAGPUL (ASIA) LIMITED
ROOM 1203-4 WEALTH COMMERCIAL CENTRE
48 KWONG WAH STREET,
MONG KOK, KOWLOON,
HONG KONG
PHONE: (852) 2332 6108
FAX: (852) 2332 6108
Email: [email protected]

Well, it would be somewhat cheap to do the design and tooling in Asia, but the manufacturing here in America. I do think that may be frowned upon especially if you're going after Federal contracts. Come to think about it, all the Magpul stuff is "Export Restricted", so it would be kinda weird if the tooling was done in Asia.

These are usually licensing deals - and I believe I remember their confirming this as genuine. I recall the disclaimer was that it was for "Training Purposes Only"

Many companies have done it, and it is a simple matter of economics (lots of erconomics  )

It is a business after all, not a volunteer group of monks vowing to bring the latest greatest rail or other gun part to market for the good of the shooting community.

Oh well...

Looks like there may be some validity to Magpul (Asia):
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=111024



It looks like an old announcement, but still news to me since it never hit my radar.

If it is something going on an actually firearm, Magpul USA. Airsoft, Magpul PTS Asia. Magpul PTS purpose is to bring airsoft replicas of products offer for real firearms to the group airsoft players. Nothing more than that. Just another niche Magpul put their name into. Hopefully one day leads a now maturer airsoft player to eventually get into real shooting and go to the real products of a replica he use to play with. Magpul PTS has put the hammer down a few unlicensed airsoft replicas in HK quite recently. The PTS stands for Professional Training and Simulation, just a more "pretty" way to say airsoft.

Cool... Mystery Solved, I guess.

This comes up a couple times a year.  

Magpul has a choice, they can license their design for the overseas market, or it can get stolen and they can get nothing in the overseas market.  The smart decision is obviously to license the design, and put it back into R&D.

With any luck at all, Magpul gets feedback from outside sources as well as the increase in cash flow, and we all win.

Cool Deal!

As long as I can continue to buy Magpul stuff "Designed & Manufactured" in America, I'm all Good.

Ditto, I'll stay with the made in the USA Magpul items.  

I work for a company that is constantly getting it's products ripped off in china. Copying may be the sincerest form of flattery, but I tell you, it sucks for the customer when they get told that they do not have when they think they have.

That is a Pollyanna perspective.

Fact is, it won't take long before the lines between real and air-soft becomes so blurred, you wont be able to tell what your buying.

In fact, the MOE line looks (to me) to be targeted to the AEG crowd  but people keep lapping it up and giving Magpul the biggest pass ever - at least on these boards.

Put it this way.... if you were to say this about -say Tapco - the barbs would fly.


so we'll just chalk it up to R&D money, I guess.

I must say I don't see it that way. Most airsoft parts are not compatible with real parts, and there might be legal issues when using real parts on a non-firearm. (And in many Asian countries, they have no access to real parts, anyway.)

Magpul partnered with the company in HK so they can make money off of what will come out in the market anyway. Airsoft companies will rip off designs from real-steel companies. That is a real world fact. You might as well partner with an airsoft company so there can be a legal source for licenced merchandise, from which most people will want to purchase their equipment, rather than buying cheap Chinese ripoffs.

Magpul wins, Magpul PTS wins, and the fakers loose.

The difference is that MOE is actually good quality, unlike most Crapco offerings that are poorly designed/made/packaged.



And, so the whole infringmenet thing becomes Someone Else's Problem.  It's outsourcing your legal problems, and making money to boot.  What's not to love?

Why?  Because of it's price?  God forbid a company puts out a quality product that is affordable.

MOE stocks are twins to the CTR (minus the friction lock and QD swivel), and the grips are the same as MIAD's with a medium back strap.  

I know a lot of broke shooters, like myself, appreciate the MOE line of products (where's those damn handguards??) from Magpul.

So if it's not the price, why is it (to you) that MOE gear seems to be targeted at the Airsoft crowd?

The MOE line has nothing to do with Airsoft. MOE came around as a result of not being able to become OEM our line of grips and stocks to manufactures due to the cost difference between our items and the standard plastic parts.

By reducing the features of the CTR and MIAD we could lower our costs and compete as OEM parts on factory rifles.

At SHOT this year there will be several MOE built rifles offered by manufactures.

As for Magpul PTS, it is our way of attacking the airsoft counterfitters at the source and beating them to market. It also gives us the ability to mark all Magpul items built for Airsoft with the PTS markings so they will not be used on real firearms.

So far we have been very happy with the results as compared to doing nothing against the counterfitters.

Interesting.

Good For Everyone IMO!

Airballers get quality kit, MagPul gets what's rightfully theirs and Counterfitters get to Eat Shite!

And there you have it!

Mark it down fellas Drake just gave us a heads up for the shot show. At least we didn't get the whole "insert famous line here".. Drake must be feeling jolly..

every airsoft part will fit on a real weapon, thats how sad it is. these chinese rip off shops clone it down to the serial number. they look totally real, and for a little while work. ive seen rails, grips, stocks,scopes,sights,magazines everything but a barrel copied and for sale. check out this company link

Bottomline is Magpul has greater quality control of their product made in Asia before it is shipped to the US.
Anyone who thinks none of the companies above (sponsors) source parts from Asia is dreaming.
It's all about money.

I purchased a Daniel Defense rail and a Vltor stock from e-bay. The rail is excellent and I can guarantee you no one can tell the difference between a real vltor and my 'fake' ebay one. they are EXACTLY the same product. (I have both)

Good Call.

Is this where the "airsoft" BUPS origninated?

And since I missed calling owning page 2, when will FDE CTRs be sent to Brownells/ fde pmags restocked at 44mag?

FYI: MagPul isn't alone in this.

Eagle (now Armalite) liscences their M15 line
Arsenal their AK's
B&T their MP5 Line
- to Yick Fung Lt. Industries, sold under the Classic Army name (see Spartan Imports)

Noveske, JP Rifles, Daniel Defense, and VLTOR liscence their lines to MadBull industries

Tokyo Marui has had the JDM rights to Colt Ltd., Azamash, and a few others

The Mong Kok location puts them right in the heart of the Hong Kong airsoft markets, where they seem to be thriving.


What makes MagPul unique is that they're actually behind producing their own liscence products, which makes them the most enviable products available.
MagPul can ask more for their 6mm Pmags w/ Ranger plates than they want for the 5.56 version.

Magpul got their start making glorified rubber bands just a few years ago and look at them now.  I think they know what they are doing.

If moving manufacturing to Taiwan is what it takes to get pink PMAGs, then I guess I'll just have to settle for that.

I just want my FDE mags.

Check Out this Shiite!

Eh-Wholes

Glad Magpul has already began to put Foot To Arse on This!

Foot - To - Arse

Friggen Eh-Wholes!

When I first gave my wife her pink Cav Arms carbine... wife =

When I mentioned to my wife that Magpul might be doing a run of pink mags soon... wife =

Every time she's asked "where's my pink mags?"... wife does this to me =

Here lately, I think she's raised the BS flag on me...



So Magpul... I'm catching a lot of heat over the pink PMAGs so I hope you'll forgive me for mentioning it so often. I don't mention it on here nearly as often as my wife mentions it to me.

LOL... I can't believe a post I wrote on an airsoft forum got quoted on AR15.com. Ohh the irony.
For the record, I shoot real steel, but I also enjoy training with Airsoft.

There's a lot of assumptions that fly around about Magpul PTS, not only in the real steel world, but also the airsoft world. For the longest time, airsofters assumed Magpul PTS was actually Magpul themselves. Slowly, the realization sank in that Magpul PTS is an airsoft company that Magpul licensed to reproduce their products in airsoft replica format.

Although Magpul PTS is based in Hong Kong, don't hold it against them. Not all Hong Kong based companies are out to rip off the rest of the world. Magpul PTS is one of a few companies out there that are trying their hardest to do things right. Not only are they officially licensed but they also produce a high quality product. Sadly that's not always the case when it comes to official licensing of real steel products... companies like Cybergun (which holds the Colt and SigArms licenses) and Umarex (which holds the H&K license) have a history of procuring airsoft licenses from real steel companies and then selling off those licenses to the highest bidder with seemingly complete disregard for what the quality of those replicas will be. It's those malicious companies that make airsofters so divided about the pros and cons of licensing real steel products. Many airsofters associate all licensed products with the 100% financially motivated companies like Cybergun, and assume Magpul PTS is the same way (which is sad because Magpul PTS has gone to great lengths to produce a superior product, comparable to it's real steel counterpart).

Magpul PTS has also been extremely proactive about stomping out unlicensed replicas of Magpul Airsoft products. Obviously unlicensed Magpul airsoft products encroach upon Magpul PTS' exclusive copyright and not only potentially cuts into Magpul PTS' sales but also can negatively affect Magpul's image (should an unlicensed Magpul product be misrepresented as a licensed one). Up until recently the airsoft consumer market has been relatively supportive of Magpul PTS' legal position in these matters as they acknowledge that even though their products are not cheap, Magpul PTS has gone to the effort to legally acquire the rights to reproduce the products as high quality replicas and that they are supported by Magpul to that end.

However, recently it was announced that an unnamed China based Company (most likely A&K) was going to manufacture and sell an unlicensed Airsoft Replica of the Magpul Masada (the prototype Masada, not the Magpul/Bushmaster ACR). Clearly that's an intellectual property that would be covered under Magpul PTS' licensing agreement with Magpul. Furthermore, Magpul PTS has officially stated that they have been developing a licensed replica of the Masada/ACR for some time now. Well, as much as real steel shooters have been clamoring for Magpul to release the Masada, the exact same can be said of airsofters in regards to the Magpul PTS' much delayed Masada replica. And that's where the new drama came about...
You see, the demographics of airsofters cover a wide range of ages, financial incomes, etc etc. Many expend a good deal of money converting their replicas to appear and feel as close to their real steel counterparts as possible. There are many others who simply do not have the same amount of expendable income (or simply do not wish to spend it). Throw in the current economic climate, and more often than not, airsofters are leaning towards the cheaper, lower quality airsoft replicas typically produced in mainland China.
So when the unlicensed China Based Company announced that they were going to release a replica of the Masada, Magpul PTS moved quickly to ensure that that did not happen, and if it did, no airsoft retailer/distributor would carry the unlicensed replica in fear of legal repercussions. Many airsofters who had previously been indifferent about Magpul PTS stomping out unlicensed Magpul replicas suddenly had a lot to say. While many (including myself) argue that it's Magpul's intellectual property, and that it infringes upon Magpul PTS' exclusive copyright, there are just as many airsofters that firmly believe that Magpul is simply being greedy in this matter. They contend that Magpul and Magpul PTS should just allow the unlicensed company to release their replica, or at the very least license it themselves. What's their motivation? Firstly, impatience. Magpul PTS has been working on an airsoft replica for sometime now and it has been delayed repeatedly (for whatever reason Magpul PTS has not commented on). With no definite release date for the licensed replica, the unlicensed replica seems like a light at the end of the tunnel for many consumers. Secondly, price. Magpul PTS, while they make a top notch product, are not as cheap as their China based competitors. Granted the China based stuff is never anywhere near the quality that Magpul PTS produces, but many consumers are starting to place higher priority on price over quality. There have been no statements as to the price of the licensed Magpul Masada, however, everyone knows it will be nowhere near as cheap as the unlicensed Masada which is currently speculated as costing US$150-$200. Due to these two factors, many airsoft consumers (not all, keep in mind) argue that the unlicensed replica should be released regardless of copyright propriety.

In my opinion, those motivations are driven purely by self interest.

There's actually another factor behind those airsofters' arguments, and that has a lot to do with the philosophy and back story of airsoft. Keep in mind that airsoft was started in Japan, a country that does not permit the right to bare arms. During the late 70s / early 80s, airsoft was born there and quickly grew in popularity in much of Asia. The replicas started off as somewhat unique designs that didn't closely replicate the appearance of real guns. Around the mid-80s, you started seeing airsoft replicas that were decent replicas of the real thing and their popularity exponentially grew. Even though there were airsoft replicas of ARs and most other real guns, it was so under the radar, it was generally ignored by the real gun manufacturers especially with paintball and their non-realistic aesthetics having the limelight here in the US. Meanwhile, airsoft continued on its course, largely unlicensed and the quality of those replicas just got better and better. Here's where the philosophy issue kicks in. Airsofters have become so accustomed to high quality unlicensed products, they have by and large accepted it as a necessary evil. Pretty much anyone who has ever bought an airsoft replica can fall into that category. And many of the proponents for unlicensed replicas cite Cybergun and Umarex as two major examples of licensing gone horribly wrong and built purely around financial gain. It's because of these factors, that the majority of airsofters rationalize the legitimacy of buying unlicensed airsoft products.

Back to the Airsoft Masada... People want it now. People want it cheap. And the majority seem okay with turning a blind eye to the morality of copyright infringement of this replica. It's not been an easy debate to have with those that see things in this way. Reasoning and understanding seem to go out the window. While I like airsoft and the replicas that have been available to date (even though many of those were probably unlicensed by the originators of those IPs), I and many others stand firmly on the position that when a company like Magpul PTS comes along, gets the legal copyright from the real steel company and produces a high quality product, they should be embraced by the airsoft community... rather than be chastised for defending their exclusive copyright (something that is within their RIGHT to do). It's a tough debate, argued by those that sit at either extreme of the issue.

Regardless, there's one absolute that pretty much most real steel fire arm companies (especially those with popular platforms) must accept... one way or another, their product will be replicated in airsoft. Magpul, Noveske, Daniel Defense, TDI, IMI, Gemtech, Quicksilver, DNTC, JP Rifles... are just a few companies that have chosen to license their products to reputable airsoft companies/manufacturers. Hopefully that list will grow, and other real steel manufacturers will also align themselves with well respected airsoft manufacturers (who have a genuine interest in reproducing an accurate looking replica that truly does justice to the real steel counterpart it's based on). The more that happens, the more the firearm manufacturers' interests will be protected rather than their Intellectual Properties continue to be so liberally "borrowed" from. I still hold out hope that VLTOR will someday jump on the bandwagon. Their products are in high demand in the airsoft community, and whether they like it or not, their products are being reproduced for airsoft. I'd rather see them get something back and regain some control of the situation. (Eric, if you're reading this and ever change your mind, LMK, I'll point you in the right direction).






Not entirely true. While there are many airsoft parts that can be used to a certain extent on a real steel shooter (like VFGs, stocks, BUIS, and some handguards), many other electric powered airsoft gun products are made to a different spec or just down right incompatible due to how the replicas go together (such as pistol grips, receivers, barrels, buffer tubes (sometimes), flashhiders, magazines, trigger guards, charging handles).  Recently, the lines of compatibility have been blurred somewhat with the introduction of AR and AK airsoft replicas that are gas powered (typically propane) such as those made by Western Arms, Inokatsu and WE. These new gas powered Airsoft replicas (commonly referred to as GBB or Gas Blow Back), have very realistic dimensions, actions, and even break down just like the real thing. They can NEVER be made to fire a real round, however they do accept many real steel external accessories. Check out this YouTube video.



* My apologies for such a long post. This wasn't planned as quite the essay it has become. Just wanted to help demystify a topic that many don't know much about.

And to help keep this post visually interesting, here's one of my Magpul Airsoft ARs (surface finish inspired by mfingar's FDE M4):

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/8397/fdemultitabsmallzw7.jpghttp://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5717/fdeonetabsmallar0.jpg

The parts break down (RS = Real Steel):
RS Daniel Defense MK18 RIS II in FDE
RS Daniel Defense Low Profile Gas Block
RS Troy Front and Rear BUIS in FDE
RS Magpul FDE Rail Cover Ladders in FDE
RS Magpul Mil Spec CTR in FDE
Magpul PTS Receiver in FDE
Magpul PTS Sling Plate
Magpul PTS MIAD in FDE
King Arms 10.5" Barrel
LaRue Tactical Low Profile Pride Fowler IronDot
Magpul PTS 120 round FDE PMAG x 10
RS Magpul PMAG Ranger Plate x 10
Rainier Arms EMGs

And my setup when I'm down at Pendleton's MOUT 131 range with the Marines:
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/9779/fdepmc02smallin4.jpghttp://img413.imageshack.us/img413/9279/fdepmc01smallyb0.jpg

Wow! Thanks for the very informative post. While I have some exposure to airsoft, I hadn't realized the history behind the licensed/unlicensed issue. Sure makes alot more sense now.

I think the best way to support Magpul and Magpul PTS is to buy their products. Money talks, and I know where I'm buying gear from when I get back into...

Is there any upcoming news regarding the licensed Masada/ACR?

uscmCorps,

Great Post!

Hope to see you "In the shadow of the beast" in the near future,,,

And the longest airsoft post in history goes to ......... UsmcCorps. hahaha

but seriously everything Usmccorps said is right, yall should see the discussion we had over at Arniesairsoft about the ACR/masada subject. me personally im all for Magpul PTS protecting their IP, its just tough to get others to even listen lol.

Holy crap. Beat out my "why I enjoy airsoft" post by like a sentence. Funny how a quick paragraph can turn into a small essay.

I still contend that any company adverslely affected by illegimate clones can and will wreck any clone manufacturer's sales by going forward and backing Madbull or any other license-seeking entity. Ace, Barret, Beretta, HSS, Colt, DNTC, Daniel Defense, Double Star, DPMS, Gemtech, GIAT, JP Rifles, Magnum Research, Mossberg, Noveske, Stag, SIG Sauer, TDI, Vector Arms, Wilson Combat, Robinson Arms, Taurus, and UZI in addition to Magpul have gone that route thereby eliminating almost all demand for their respective knockoffs... Hopefully Magpul's experience with an Asian division can convince other companies to do the same in an effort to protect their intellictual property or at least get some control over it.

Companies like LaRue Tactical, Trijicon, L3O-Tech, and Vltor all still have numerous knockoffs that would not be purchased given an accurate, licesed, alternative. Trijicon and LT seem like they would be the most successful due to all the trademark-less and inaccurate, yet numerous, copies.

no matter how much you tell people they will never listen and will go the cheaper, and not a good items, so ive pretty much quit trying to convince people. theirs a new thread on arnies about a knockoff UBR, and once again people said, "why does magpul pay the pTS division" , magpul PTs take to long, bla bla bla, its really pathetic.

JUst saw that and posted another 'heads up' topic here. Magpul PTS got off to a rough start by charging the same, or more, for a replica... The airsoft CTR is $5 cheaper than the real $110 version. The PTS PMAG is $30 - more than 150% the cost of the first real PMAGs... While what they do is a step in the right direction, their prices are only now competitive enough to get people to pay a little extra for the licensed material.

IMHO you cannot expect someone to pay 90% or more of the real part for a licensed airsoft version (those that would will just get the real part as many do). Given Magpul's prices, American manufacturing, and immense R&D, I cannot believe that PTS is doing much more than pocketing half the retail value unless Magpul is getting something off the top. Regardless, the Green Line PMAGs, MIAD, and MOE seem to be just right in terms of price and are currently unrivaled. The UBR fiasco should be interesting. Hopefully PTS has enough legal backing to prevent anything from taking place.

in all do respect airsoft mag are a bit mroe complicated then RS mags, and the Green Label Pmags are crap from what ive heard.believe me MAgpul PTS  has the backing so far up to the chinese masada( still ongoing) theyve stopped all unlicensed replica.

Mid-caps aren't.

What i would like to know is why so many gun owners are so willing to jump on the throat of anything airsoft related the second it is mentioned?  Yeah, i know, some people dont like it for whatever reasons they may have and yes, i do respect that but there's so much misinformation and unfounded stereotypes, perpetuated by this board i may add, that its gotten to the point of utter ridiculousness.

In any industry, there are good and bad manufacturers.  The airsoft industry is a heck of a lot newer than the firearms industry and the founders of this industry are still learning the ropes.  Yes, there are some that simply dont care about intellectual property rights but then on the other hand, there are plenty that are committed to doing things the RIGHT way.

To the poster that mentioned his inability to tell the difference between real and replica parts, wow, all i have to say is seriously man, you need to take another look.

There is a WORLD of difference between my airsoft MRP and my real MRP.  The same goes for every rail system and polymer furniture accessory i have ever ordered.  The magpul PTS parts narrow the gap but again, there is no way i can fit an airsoft MIAD onto my real guns.  The same goes for the MOE line of grips.  For starters, the MOE line of handgrips comes with no heatshield.  I would think that would be indicative of it being an airsoft part.  Sure, airsoft manufacturers DO produce airsoft handguards with heatshields but again, Magpul is doing right by BOTH of their markets and ensuring that there ARE differences between the "real" thing and the replica.

As has been mentioned previously, the more money that Magpul makes, the better off we all are.  Whether you belong to the firearms crowd, the airsoft crowd or both, we SIMPLY WIN.  So far no one has really provided a legit reason(s) as to why Magpul and numerous other manufacturers entering the airsoft market is a bad thing.

I really do believe that the differences between both crowds need to be squashed and buried.  We are all in the same boat here whether we shoot steel or airsoft.

PS, honest question.  Im not sure if the OP was being sarcastic about his comments in regards to Magpul buying property in asia or what but why did you and some others assume that Magpul was outsourcing production to Asia?

i know the Magpul PTS 120rnds are good, but not the star Green Label Pmags..... those are bad. the magpul Pts's feed batter, have better build materials, and just everything better then the Green Labels. well execpt for price but we cant be picky now lol.

tag

This is airsoft, not paintball!