Posted: 8/19/2008 2:07:07 PM EDT
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hey guys i need help. whats the policy for IR flag wear? i got guys running around (Ft Dix) saying "the commanders doing it" and i cant do anything without the regs. also does sunlight really damage the IR properties? thanks. SGT CAsoldier 
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I'm not sure about the IR flags, but I do know that the little black squares that come with your PVS-14 can be damaged by sunlight (how much that "damage" actually effects the IR reflectivity I don't know) Just to be safe I'd use a different one when out at night and try to keep its exposure to a minimum-just my opinion, ymmv. |
If you don't want your Joes wearing IR flags in garrison tell them to take them off. If they give you some line of shit abot the commander doing it, explain that the commander doesn't work for you, but they do. If that doesn't work smoke 'em 'till the patches fall off. |
this is what ive been doing, and it worked, commander just took his IR off and so did everyone else. its good to be a CAT sergeant, i found the regs its 670-1 sec 5R |
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It's probably the same asshats that wear their PC's to the shopette. Apparently the entire Army(as much as I disagree with it) still hasn't gotten the word that the official headgear is the Beret, unless in the motorpool, on detail, or in a tactical environment. ETA: If you wear your PC to the shopette, you're an asshat. |
I can see exceptions to that statement. You had to take someone to a hospital appointment (while in the field) and didn't stop on the way to get your beret. Or you're in a Guard unit where the commander (let's go with brigade for this) says that the headgear will be the PC with few exceptions. I suppose in that case though have the beret in your car in case you need to go to an active duty post. |
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The permission to wear them was mentioned ini one of the very first DA messages regarding wear of the ACUs. It stated that full color or subdued IR flags were approved for wear. I'll google it myslef. Here is what is allowed: HOOK AND LOOP (VELCROED) FULL COLOR U.S. FLAG INSIGNIA HOOK AND LOOP IR SUBDUED U.S. FLAG INSIGNIA from http://www.armyg1.army.mil/hr/Uniform/docs/Army%20Combat%20Uniform%20(ACU)%20Ensemble.pdf |
it is authorized but only by the commander and only in tactical or field enviroments. |
i wear my PC to the shopette, and everywhere here at Dix for a couple different reasons. actually my whole battalion does. i dont consider myself an asshat either. but thanks for your input, it means worlds to me. |
Who cares about people wearing PCs around. The Black Beret belonged to the Army Rangers anyway. It always will! |
It belonged to the US Army Armored Cavalry in Erope up until the mid 1970s.... these things change. The beret is still a lame piece of French head wear. |
You guys are Reservists in the mobilization process. Deploying Reserves and Guardsman normally wear the PC as part of the uniform of the day from when they go on Title 10 until they come off orders. |
Don't be hating! |
Of course our TAG has said that we will only wear the beret on active duty bases or Federal orders in the States so I wear mine where I am told by two stars and soldier on. CS |
Belonged to tankers before that. Things change. However, any time I have had the choice, I've worn anything other than the beret, be it the PC or the Service Cap. NTM |
That's basically what our previous brigade commander stated, and put out. The PC is our duty uniform unless at some sort of function or ceremony. |
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I think that it is so sad really, the Beret issue that is. I have worn a beret my entire military career. Long before the Army saw fit to give everyone a black one. Back when I was at Bragg, you know where the REAL Army is, everyone always had two forms of head gear. The PC and the Beret. The Beret was for formation and when in dress uniform, and the PC was for ALL THE REST OF THE TIME....I don't give a FUCK where you were, you wore the PC while not in formation or dress uniform. Now that LEGS have taken over the Beret, they want everyone to wear it all the time. Those are the ass hats if you ask me. |
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I could give a shit about headgear, but I do beg to differ, the "Real Army" is in places like Baghdad, and Khandahar, not the states. Those of us here are regrouping. You really don't see the beret in these places anyway. CS
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I hope to retire in my PC next April.
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1. It's subdued so it doesn't stand out like the full color one does. 2. It's IR reflective so that, supposedly at night you can see who your buddies are because they'll have a lot of IR mirrors on them flashing in your nods. |
| My point was that you can't expect your Soldiers to meet one standard, but get upset for not meeting another. I don't care if you like the beret, I don't think anyone likes it actually. I hate it, personally. The standard is the standard, even if your Bde Cdr doesn't like it. I wasn't pointing out your unit specifically, we've got plenty of joes here that wear whatever they feel like. What's sad is it seems to take a CSM to get them to meet the standard(and there is one published here). |
1. Your point isn't valid if the people you are taling about are NG or Reservists during their pre-deployment training. They are in a training/field environment from the moment they mobilise/activate until they deploy when they are obviously in a tactical environment. For them the PC IS the propery uniform headgear. 2. Do you really expect people to take this to JAG/IG about their Bde. Cdr giving an unlawful order to not wear the beret? |
Why are NG and Reservists in the training/field environment when they are training up for deployment, but Active duty units not? Why the hell would anyone go to the JAG/IG about the headgear? That's like me going to the chow hall for glow plugs. |
I'm not talking about units doing their weekend drill. I'm referring to units that are locked down for the month and a half prior to their deployment. They are there soley for the purpose of training for deployment. It's why they aren't allowed to have a POV with rare exception, and are basically being treated like basic trainees for that time. first Army has a very long list of can and can't do for training RC members. It's not even close to what an active unit is doing. Permission from your company commander to go to main post to the PX, permission from the batallion commander to leave post. Stuff like that. If the brigade commander of the 81 HBCT to wear PCs as their headgear and not berest unless at some function and that violates all the policy letters and AR670-1 what do you do? Do you say no and wear the beret anyway? Face the smokings and an article 15 for it? Go to JAG for legal advie for not obeying an unlawful order? That was my point about you bitching about people wearing PCs and how the beret is the standard regardless if your brigade commander likes it or not. Again the simple question is, what do you do when he said to always wear the PC? |
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I don't think I like combat boots. I think they look gay. From now on, I'm just gonna go to work in a pair of Converse high tops. If your unit is uber duper training up for deployment and you're in a training environment, who cares if they wear the IR flags, train like you fight, right? ETA: Wear the PC because your Bde Cdr told you to. Don't get mad when the RA Soldiers mock your unit for upholding the "Guard and Reserve Soldiers are a bunch of lameasses who can't dress themselves" stereotype. BTW, the other day at the PX a Reserve Soldier was walking around with the sleeves of her ACU's about 6 inches past the ends of her arms. Excuse was "These are the new style ACU's, and they don't have them in my size yet..." Even the basic trainees were pointing and laughing... |
Last I checked, a unit commander has the authority to order the wear of the IR flag, PC, etc... While in Korea, our CO designated Monday as Patrol Cap day... When troops caught flack from other unit's senior NCOs... The response was 'respectfully tell them that your unit commander has made the PC part of the uniform of the day'... Prior to deployment, my unit here at Lewis did the same thing, for about 2mo (PC and IR flag is now part of the uniform. No more berets or full-color until we get back)... P.S. All RA there... Aviation, but still reg army... |
Yep... Most annoying thing in the Army is some NCO from some other command 'correcting' troops for following THEIR commander's orders... Not your patch... Not your problem... UNLESS it's something universal such as wearing PTs with the shirt untucked..... What's even worse, is the folks who try to do that shit downrange... God help you for wearing a PT hat with ACUs (Aviation thing... Safety... So our CO authorized them for wear everywhere, just to make things simple and prevent 'oops, forgot to change hats' problems).... |
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this thread has really degenerated. my 2 original questions were 1. is the IR flag authorized when not in the field? 2. will sunlight damage the properties in the IR flag? the first was answered, no, a commander can authorize its wear but ONLY in a field or tactical enviroment the second question was swept aside, only one said, maybe. i think it does so i asked. about the PC and beret, honestly i could care less what the head gear is, beret, pc, tophat it dosent matter, its whats under the hat that makes all the difference. what i do take offense to is being called an asshat when no one truely knows who i am. i dont enjoy being lumped in with broad generalizations. past that ill leave this thread alone. and thank you for all the congrats, and well wishes. CAsoldier |
Its our policy in AK to wear PC or Beret. PC preferably. If I wore my beret up here that shit would just blow off and get filled up with snow/dirt/rocks |
Hell, when I was in Korea, every Friday was Stetson and Spurs day...and every Friday when I would go to the PX after work, I would get the question, usually from some dumb private..."dude, what's with the metal things on your boots?" We had unit, company, and shop-specific "unit patches" that went on the right breast of the flight suit...I still have my "APU OPERATOR" Heavy Cav patch...shortly after that all the crew-chiefs had the same patch made up with their aircraft's tail number on it...we were even allowed to wear black leather belts with our 3/6 Heavy Cav belt buckles, it was for unit morale. The point here is that different units are authorized to wear different things according to unit SOP. If nothing else, carry the 600-2 or a copy of the memorandum with you. |
I've seen many units start about 2 months out with the PC and IR flag prior to deployments. My unit wears PC's pretty much all the time. We have a beret day every Friday, typically for promotions and/or awards. I'm pretty sure we are not asshats. We also work and live away from many of the pog units that would throw a fit about the wear of a PC, so that is nice in many aspects. I could care less either way. A hat is a hat. At least the PC is more than a decoration.... |
And the Guard only does a one and a half month pre-deployment trainup now, so there's the answer to that. |