Posted: 2/28/2007 10:59:20 AM EDT
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Is anyone here a USAF Combat Controller? Of all the Socom units I can find the least on them. This is the best info thusfar I have found: http://www.usafcct.com/ Does the pipline have the same soulcrushing attrition rate as BUD/S or SFAS? From my understanding there are only a few hundred CCTs around so they dont recieve very much media/airsoft seal wannabes attention, as a result I cant find a huge amount of info outside of the schools one must attend. The reason why I ask is because I am reading around because I plan on the service and wish to amass as much info as I can find on possible jobs before I make my choice. Before I decided to bother anyone here I did search around for info on google and such but firsthand info is always good. Thanks. |
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Every question you have can be answered here: www.specialtactics.com/ |
| i work with some occasionally in my AOR, good guys, young and inexperienced but fit, well trained and some of the nicest fanciest gucci gear youll ever see. the AF has biiiiig budgets. there are some haters in the community mostly because its an initial entry pipeline. i know they catch some guff around the bar but my interactions with them have been 100% positive. |
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Well provided my eyesight and level of physical fitness can improve I am starting to like the idea of CCT over airborne infantry or security forces. You are still are on the ground with a rifle but all the cool airforce gizmos and direct airplanes. I found this: Pre-requisites to enter Pararescue or Combat Control Be a volunteer Be a US Citizen Be a male (based on current Department of Defense policies) Have a general score of at least 43 on the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery test Have vision of best eye 20/70, worst eye 20/100; correctable to 20/20. (No Radial Keratotomy..) Have normal color vision Meet specific physical fitness standards Be a proficient swimmer Be a High School graduate or have a GED Able to obtain a SECRET security clearance Successful completion of the PAST test Minimum physical profile (PULHES) of 111111 (no problems) Pass an Initial flying class III physical qualification of aircrew, parachute, and maritime diving duty Strength aptitude standard of "K" for retention of AFSC |
CCT is not a job you want to volunteer for unless you are in the best physical shape you can possibly be in. You have to swim like a fish as well as run well to pass their indoc. The attrition rate is also extremely high, like all other SF jobs. Despite all the hard core physical aspects of the job, they are also FAA certified air traffic controllers, at least you will have job skills that are more useful than "I can kill stuff, real good" when you get out.  It's a kick ass job though, IMO one of the best in all of DoD, good luck if that's the route you plan to go. Follow the workout routines over on specialtactics and build your body up so you don't get injured down the line. ETA: For a slightly less HS/LD job, that is still cool check out ETACs, (that's Enlisted Terminal Attack Controller), you will spend your entire career with the Army and get to attend most of the cool schools, but it's not as hard to get into (or stay in) as CCT. |
| The more I read around the more I realized everyone WANTS to be a Seal/Ranger/Green Beret/PJ but nots everyone MAKES it there. I recently lost a shitload of weight and work out moderately, but I am no where near an "athletic person". I just hit an 8 minute mile a while ago, 30 pushups, 50 somthing sit ups, etc and I am improving. I have come to terms with myself that I dont have the willpower to stick to serious fitness all the time. I am still in highschool, I am in better shape than most of the butterballs and smokers but I am not where near the level of the basket ball/soccer kids who cant whip out 6 minute miles and run 4 miles. As much as I want to be I just am not one of those never quit pt freaks. You are right about CCT being serious buisness in the PT department, the passing rate in the whole course in around 25 percent I just discovered. I dont want to sell myself short and do somthing I dont really want to do, or try somthing and fail and have that mark on my for the rest of my life. ETACs, from what I have read so far (there is nothing on the AF webpage about em though) seems like a cool job that I would feel and I am not falling short. I will do more research! |
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Found some info: http://www.socnetcentral.com/vb/showthread.php?p=709387 COURSE ID: L3ABP1C431 0T0A TITLE: TACTICAL AIR COMMAND AND CONTROL APPRENTICE COURSE PDS: 0NU DATE ADDED: 9/12/2005 AFSC: 1C431 DATE UPDATED: 1/4/2006 CATEGORY: Technical DOD CODE: 101 SECURITY: START DATE: 10/16/05 MASL: AIRCRAFT: LOCATION: Hurlburt Field LENGTH: 73 Days ORG/PGM: Air Education and Training Command / Enlisted Operations Training CLASS FREQ: ADSC DESC: WEBLINK: COMING SOON Course Description: Trains personnel to directly assist, control, enable, and execute operational air and space power functions in the forward battle space independent of an established airbase or its perimeter defenses. Personnel will be trained on the following objectives: portable, vehicle mounted, and satellite radio communications; tactical vehicle operations; map reading; day and night land navigation; Global Positioning System (GPS); small unit tactics; cover, concealment, and camouflage; Tactical Air Control System and Army Air Ground System (TACS/AAGS); Close Air Support Procedures; how to utilize multiple command assets in joint combat operations to plan and execute tactical air and ground weapons resources in direct support of Army ground maneuver units. Upon graduation, personnel are normally assigned to Army installations worldwide. They may be employed alone or as part of an Air Force, joint, interagency or coalition force, to support Combatant Commander's objectives and may operate under the most austere conditions for extended periods. Graduates will perform and manage Tactical Air Control Party (TACP) and Air Support Operations Center (ASOC) operations. Graduates of the Tactical Air Command and Control Apprentice course will attend S-V80-A, Combat Survival Training, at Fairchild AFB upon completion of technical training. Graduates of the Tactical Air Command and Control course selected for Basic Parachutist training will attend S-V80-A, Combat Survival Training, following completion of basic parachutist course. This specialty is a member of Battlefield Airman career field grouping. Prerequisites: Must have a valid civilian driver's license; normal color vision and depth perception according to AFI 48-123; no speech impediment or any physical limitations preventing students from participating in a rigorous physical training program and meeting and maintaining worldwide mobility criteria. Must have a completed TACP physical ability stamina test (PAST). TACTICAL AIR COMMAND AND CONTROL Physical Ability Stamina Test (PAST) CRITERIA This test must be conducted in the order listed below. Record TAC PAST results on unit letterhead or evaluation worksheet. Members are encouraged to complete the test in its entirety to determine weak/strong points in their physical condition. Test administrators should sign and have commanders endorse test results with a copy provided to the member. This test is comprised of 4 events. NOTE: The TAC PAST requirements are designed to test for a minimum fitness level necessary to insure safety. TAC candidates should train, throughout their application process, to exceed these minimums in order to enhance their chances of success in the TACP training process. One 200-meter/yard surface swim. This swim is conducted using any combination of swim strokes. The swim is continuous (non stop) and has no time limit. If a member stops any time during the swim, the test will be stopped and considered a failure for the entire PAST. Swimsuit and goggles/mask are the only equipment items allowed. Allow a 30-minute rest before the run. 1.5-mile run: (Go/No Go) The maximum time is 11 minutes, 30 seconds. PT clothes and good running shoes are the only required items. This run must be continuous (non-stop). If a member stops anytime during this run, the test will be stopped and considered a failure for the entire PAST. Members will be given a 10-minute break prior to the next event. Test should be conducted on a measured running track. Calisthenics: 3 calisthenics exercises are evaluated, each with specific time parameters and specific exercise form mechanics. All members will exercise to either muscle failure or time completion, whichever occurs first. The intent here is to have members do as many "good form" repetitions in the time allotted or when muscle failure is reached. NOTE: In performing all calisthenics, the exercise's proper form must be followed. Deviation from the form to allow extra repetitions will be to the member's disadvantage. Exercise form is strictly enforced during the training pipeline. Allow a 3-minute break between each calisthenics exercise. Chin-ups/Pull-ups (2 minute): (Go/No Go) Complete a minimum of 6 chin-ups within a 2-minute time period. Chin-ups/Pull-ups are a two-count exercise. Starting position is hanging from a bar, palms facing the candidate, or away from the candidate, with no bend in elbows. Hand spread is approximately shoulder width. Count one; pull the body up until the Adam's apple clears the top of the bar. Count two; return to starting position. Legs are allowed to bend, but must not be kicked or manipulated to aid upward movement. If the candidate falls off, stops, or releases the bar, the exercise is terminated. Candidate will exercise to muscle failure or time completion. Sit-ups (2 minutes): (Go/No Go) Complete a minimum of 50 sit-ups within a 2-minute period. On the command "get set", assume the starting position by lying on your back with your knees bent at a 90-degree angle. Your feet may be together or up to 12 inches apart. Another person will hold your ankles with the hands only. No other method of bracing or holding the feet is authorized. The heel is the only part of your foot that must stay in contact with the ground. Your fingers must be interlocked behind your head and the backs of your hands must touch the ground. Your arms and elbows need not touch the ground. On the command "go", begin raising your upper body forward to, or beyond, the vertical position. The vertical position means that the base of your neck is above the base of your spine. After you have reached or surpassed the vertical position, lower your body until the bottom of your shoulder blades touch the ground. Your head, hands, arms, or elbows do not have to touch the ground. At the end of each repetition, the scorer will state the number of sit-ups you have correctly completed. A repetition will not count if you fail to reach the vertical position, fail to keep your fingers interlocked behind your head, arch or bow your back and raise your buttocks off the ground to raise your upper body, or let your knees exceed a 90-degree angle. If a repetition does not count, the scorer will repeat the number of your last correctly performed sit-up. The up position is the only authorized rest position. If you stop and rest in the down (starting) position, the event will be terminated. As long as you make a continuous physical effort to sit up, the event will not be terminated. You may not use your hands or any other means to pull or push yourself up to the up (resting) position or to hold yourself in the rest position. If you do so, your performance in the event will be terminated. Correct performance is important. Push-ups (2 minutes): (Go/No Go) Complete a minimum of 42 push-ups within a 2-minute time period. On the command 'get set,' assume the front-leaning rest position by placing your hands where they are comfortable for you. Your feet may be together or up to 12 inches apart. When viewed from the side, your body should form a generally straight line from your shoulders to your ankles. On the command 'go,' begin the push-up by bending your elbows and lowering your entire body as a single unit until your upper arms are at least parallel to the ground. Then, return to the starting position by raising your entire body until your arms are fully extended. Your body must remain rigid in a generally straight line and move as a unit while performing each repetition. If you fail to keep your body generally straight, to lower your whole body until your upper arms are at least parallel to the ground, or to extend your arms completely, that repetition will not count, and the scorer will repeat the number of the last correctly performed repetition. If you fail to perform the first ten push-ups correctly, the scorer will tell you to go to your knees and will explain to you what your mistakes are. However, after the first 10 push-ups have been performed and counted, no restarts are allowed. The test will continue, and any incorrectly performed push-ups will not be counted. An altered, front-leaning rest position is the only authorized rest position. That is, you may sag in the middle or flex your back. When flexing your back, you may bend your knees, but not to such an extent that you are supporting most of your body weight with your legs. If this occurs, your performance will be terminated. You must return to, and pause in, the correct starting position before continuing. If you raise either your hand or foot from the ground, your performance will be terminated. You may reposition your hands and/or feet during the event as long as they remain in contact with the ground at all times. Recommended Items: Recommended Packing List: The below listed items are not mandatory but are good comfort items to have during training. All of the items are available at clothing sales. 4x summer weight BDUs (Older uniforms suitable for field training in addition to regular uniforms) 2x Jungle Boots (Older boots suitable for field training) 100oz back pack type water system (i.e. Camel Back) Flight Gloves 2 pairs of running shoes Digital Watch w/ stopwatch 10 Pairs of boot socks 10 pairs of sock liners Stadtler Lumocolor Permanent Markers (2x Black/Super Fine & 1 Eraser Marker/Bold) Mini Mag Flashlight w/ red lens Micro Flashlight w/ red lens Multi Tool Folding Knife (3-4" Blade) Lighter Tactical Notepad w/ waterproof paper 5x 36" Bungee Cords (Green or Black) Tactical Notepad w/waterproof paper Reporting Instructions: Hand-carry personnel, dental, medical, and driving records. Report to Detachment 3, 342 TRS/CQ, 413 Cody Ave, Building 90329, Hurlburt Field FL, 32544. Reporting Instructions Supplemental Prior Service PCS/TDY Students: (Duration of course/courses less then 20 weeks/100 academic days.) All PCS/TDY active duty or ANG students must report to the orderly room between 0900 and 1600 hours not later than two business days prior to class start date. Every effort should be made to arrive at Hurlburt Field during duty hours. If arrival is after duty hours, students should follow instructions located in the Charge of Quarters (CQ) office, manned 24 hours daily. Hurlburt billeting/lodging office, Commando Inn, located in Bldg 90509 should only be used as a last resort for temporary lodging. Split Training Option (STO) Students: STO students must report the Monday - 1 week prior to their scheduled class start date. Upon arrival at Hurlburt Field, STO students will report directly to their Military Training Flight (see unit of assignment below). STO students should notify the Military Training Flight (DSN 579-6855) to provide advanced notice of arrival time and date so that transportation from the airport can be arranged. Pipeline Students: Pipeline students will be met by an MTF representative at the airport and taken directly to Det 3, 342 TRS/CQ. Split Training Option (STO) students and pipeline students reporting from another wing after elimination/reclassification will be required to report to the MTF upon arrival at Hurlburt Field. Special Notes: Student Quarters All Students are required to live in the Det 3, 342 TRS Student Dormitory Prior Service PCS and TDY Students: (Duration of course/courses 20 weeks/100 academic days or MORE.) Single or unaccompanied enlisted students in PCS status will reside in Det 3, 342 TRS dormitories at no cost to the member. If arrival is after duty hours, students should follow instructions located in the Charge of Quarters (CQ) office, manned 24 hours daily. Hurlburt billeting/lodging office, Commando Inn, located in Bldg 90509 should only be used as a last resort for temporary lodging. PCS and TDY students accompanied by family members are authorized to stay in temporary lodging facilities (TLF) for up to 10 days while looking for a place to live. However, students will still be required to maintain quarters in the student dormitory. All housing arrangement must be complete prior to 1600 two business day prior to class start date. Advance reservations for TLF must be made prior to arrival. Special Rqmts: Special Rqmts: There is a mandatory physical training program for all students assigned to the L3ABP1C431 0T0A course. On day one of the course, students will be administered a physical conditioning evaluation consisting of the same event criteria required for the PAST. If students are found deficient in any of the test areas, they will be put on remedial physical training conducted every duty day. Those students who satisfactorily maintain standards will perform physical training 3-5 days per week. Prior to graduation, students must obtain the following minimums on each of the following exercises: 200m swim, no time limit; 64 sit-ups, 2 minutes; 53 pushups, 2 minutes; 8 pull/chin-ups, 2 minutes; and a two-mile run, 14 minutes 30 seconds. PT uniforms will be standardized by flight upon arrival. Each flight will either wear the official AF PT uniform, or the TACP Candidate PT uniform. Until a uniform is established, the initial PT uniform will consist of a brown T-shirt, BDU pants, white socks, and approved running shoes. Transportation A Military Training Leader or representative will be at the airport to meet all non-prior service students reporting from BMT. Prior Service TDY/ANG students can either drive from their home or departing units or will have to take a taxi from the airport to the base. The cost of the taxi can be claimed on your travel voucher so make sure you ask for a receipt. Special Orders: N/A Weight Management Program Home unit commanders are responsible to ensure military personnel selected for technical training comply with AFI 10-248, Fitness Program, and AETC Supplement to AFI 10-248. Air National Guard members must be in compliance with ANG/MPP Policy Letter, Change in Weight Management Program (WMP) Policy Concerning Operations/Technical Training Courses at AETC Facilities, dated 11 Jul 1997. Uniform Rqmts: No organizational hats may be worn with BDUs. The camouflage pattern garrison hat is the only authorized headgear for wear with the BDU. The following paragraphs have additional uniform requirements. Students must adhere to course specific uniform requirements listed on the course announcement. These uniform requirements also apply to ANG. Enlisted: Personnel attending AFSC pipeline courses must have the service dress uniform with service cap, light blue shirt with short/long sleeves, and four sets of battle dress uniforms (BDU). These uniform requirements also apply to ANG students attending AFSC pipeline courses at Hurlburt Field. During the period of 1 October through 31 March, students must have field jacket/gortex jacket with liner, thermal underwear, and gloves with liners. NOTE: Please use the Course Contact office symbol and DSN phone number (at the top of the course announcement) for questions on uniform requirements. Location Information: Hurlburt Field USAF Mary Esther, FL 32544 Note Course announcements have precedence over these instructions. Follow any specific guidance provided in course announcements. |
Hehe, the one we had in our NCOA class was not the most "Politically Correct". He liked using the F bomb to describe things,...the Instructor had issues with that. Nice guy, hated when he led PT though, Indian runs and wagon-wheels for stragglers, made the runs twice as long it seemed. |
| So is anyone here an ETAC? Was the school fun? Was the attrition rate high? Post training was the career enjoyable working with army units? In todays military would you wear an ABU (airman's battle uniform, its new look it up), or an ACU (army combat unifirom) when deployed with the army? |
I'm not an ETAC and I have only known a few, very casually. Right now they wear ACUs, I see them all the time around here. They will be the very first to recieve the ABU when it comes online later this year, and then they will be wearing that. The field gear for the ABU will be ACU pattern anyway (MICH, IBA, etc). I don't think their training pipeline is nearly as bad as CCT, but you will be for all intents and purposes "in the Army". If you get stationed at a base like Pope (soon to be gone) or McChord you will be able to live in an AF base even though you will be assigned to an Army unit. You would be wearing Army Air Assault or jump wings, and an Army combat patch, later in your career when you have earned them that is. You really are in the Army as an ETAC, you may see a better quality of life (base housing, that sort of crap) when you are in AF land, but that won't be often. You will have to pass Army PT standards and will PT with the unit you are assigned to. If you ever wanted to do all the fun stuff the Army gets to do like shooting heavy machine guns and the like, it's the way to go.
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ETAC stuff. Link: ROMAD Another link: TACP Yet another link: Down & Dirty |
I saw this article about JTACs today. The terms JTAC, ETAC, and TACP are used interchangably by the way so you may search for each. This is the type of work you would be doing:
www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123043317 You get to wear a beret too, black to blend in with the Army, of course.  www.af.mil/news/airman/0307/berets.shtml |
| It seems like the best of both worlds as far as an inexperienced civilian like myself could see it. You are in the field, carry a rifle, and direct bombs worth more than my parent's car at the enemy. I have been reading around the different branches and jobs for a while, but it terms of a realistic non socom job I am definately leaning to ETAC. |
As an ETAC you can volunteer for SOCOM assignments. |
Not only that, but after a few years as an ETAC if you still want to be CCT you can retrain. I can't think of a better initial career field to retrain from. |
There is the possibility that you will not be released form the career field. The AF needs lots of ETACs. |
Do NOT get LASIK before you join. The military would rather have you come in with glasses. You can get PRK or LASIK paid for by the .mil once you are in. For many career fields you will have to get PRK instead of LASIK so there is no possibility of the flap coming loose later on. |
Absolutely true. Of course it comes down to where they need you worse. I know CCT and PJ are always on the chronic critical shortage list, not sure about ETACs. I just checked and as usual PJ and CCT are on it, but ETAC isn't. That can always change of course. ask.afpc.randolph.af.mil/main_content.asp |
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AEBROOKS, you can join a discussion forum hosted here: ROMAD.com. These folks can answer most of your questions about TACP/ETAC. Be careful though, they are liars, thieves and cutthroats. |