AR 670-1 is pretty clear that that the Tan and Maroon Berets are organizational head gear as opposed to the Green Beret which requires a special qualification; if the Regiment does anything different pursuant to their SOP then that is of course their prerogative.

Having never been in the Ranger Regiment I can't tell you what happens in their PAC's from personal knowledge; however I do know that if a unit is slotting one MOS soldier in another MOS slot that creates "readiness issues."  AR 614-200 also makes clear that to be assigned to the Ranger Regiment one needs to merely volunteer for Ranger Training and be qualified for it.  Thus according to AR's there is no particular requirement to wear those beret's other than assignment.

While I can see the 2001 decision being disconcerting, however it seems unlikely the decision was made without some input from Army leaders that had experience with the Ranger Regiment and as it was pointed out GEN Shinseki was at least a "tabbed" Ranger.

What irritates me about this thread is the attitude that those of us who wear the Black Beret today somehow "dishonor" those that wore it when the Ranger Regiment was the only unit that was wearing it.  It is also particularly disingenuous and self-serving for someone who served in the Regiment in 1978 to lay some unique claim to the Black Beret when Tankers in Germany were wearing it and could come in here and pull the same stunt.

I would think that we could all agree that Rangers are special Soldiers, the Ranger Regiment is a special unit, all Soldiers contribute to the mission of the Army (thus the Ranger Regiment), and the decision was handled poorly at best.

Most of use dont like wearing the black beret.I much prefer a PC, best thing I have found to use the black Beret for is touching up my boots.

Quoted: I've seen VERY few that know how to wear them. Any color! The fuckers hijacked our black berets and dishonored their meaning and how difficult it was to earn the right to wear one.   Assholes. Sua Sponte, Prib

Say bro, you can have the air sick bag back, it's about useless and sucks anyways, most of us hate them and would rather wear PC's anyday of the week over that damned beret.

Looked cool on Rangers, and others that wear them but with every soldier in it half look like Saddam's bastard children anyways.  

Before I went back to the Army I served 5 years as a Special Amphibious Recon Corpsman (HM8427) I and the Marines in my unit were "special" because we opened our eyes everyday, not because of some retarded hat.  The only way you could tell any difference between myself and the "regular" FMF Corpsmen was that I had the Gold jump wings and Scuba badge on my chest.

There's a national guard SF unit out in Rhode Island that wears the red beret.  almost all their NCO's are tabbed or SF qualed.  

well, im just about over the black beret, it took 5 years to get over it.  i think the tan beret is a good choice.  importantly, as Pointman M4A1 excellently pointed out, in the end it's not the headgear that makes a man, it's what's on the chest of a soldier or marine!  and whats inside a man!  so, my hat's off to those who excel themselves to go to airborne, pathfinder, ranger, SF and so on!   and those who are planning to go the schools, good luck.......God bless!

We now have legs in the 82nd ABN.

Our Armoer and supply SGT are legs, And our Sustainment BDE(DISCOM) and CAB(Combat Aviation BDE) are coming off jump status.

It sad, but a nessasary evil during time of war/money cruch.

Hopefully one day everyone will be back on jump status.

FREE

Yea it was BS that the Ranger BN's got there Beret taken away.

They should have let the Regular Army wear Tan.

I do have to admit the Tan beret with the Regimental Flash looks sharp, but It looked better on the Black Beret.

Like everyone said judge the soldier by his performance, not his headgear.


FREE

Quoted: To a Ranger, the Black Beret was coveted.  Taking that away was a slap in the face to the most elite Infantry shock force in the world. No, it's not "just a hat."

If a unit is designated (ABN) and on jump status then they are authorized the maroon beret, one example:

Texas National Guard
Co G 143d Inf(LRSU) Rigger Shop is at Camp Mabry, Texas.

Quoted: There's a national guard SF unit out in Rhode Island that wears the red beret.  almost all their NCO's are tabbed or SF qualed.   well, im just about over the black beret, it took 5 years to get over it.  i think the tan beret is a good choice.  importantly, as Pointman M4A1 excellently pointed out, in the end it's not the headgear that makes a man, it's what's on the chest of a soldier or marine!  and whats inside a man!  so, my hat's off to those who excel themselves to go to airborne, pathfinder, ranger, SF and so on!   and those who are planning to go the schools, good luck.......God bless!

The  SF unit  in RI wears the green beret. Aco 2/19
www.riguard.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=138

The 173rd LRS unit in the RI guard wears the red beret.
www.riguard.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=139

Berets suck, real soldiers have Cav stetsons :)  Boonie caps are a second choice followed by a good patrol cap.  Berets are a slight improvement over the k-caps, LOL.

I've worn a PC for the 20months I've been in the Army. I think I wore my black beret on one occasion and my maroon on two. While I love just wearing the PC, I don't think I will mind donning a Green Beret in a few months.

Quoted: Quoted: The black beret was allowed by local comands, but was never an "offical" item by DoA.  That said if the Army was going to wear berets I always felt the beret should match your branch colors, blue, red, etc. I am NOT wearing a blue beret.

lol, +1! Infantry Blue would be too damn close to that faggoty blue UN Beret. Never! Talk about getting your ass smoked off daily for refusing to wear your headgear.

Quoted: I'll take my patrol cap any day of the week thank you very much, I didnt do anything special to earn a beret.   I'll admit that it looks a damn sight better than the garison cap ever did in Class A's and B's.   I have to admit to getting irritated when people dont wear their flippin headgear properly though... Beret, Kevlar or other included. Lazy ass mo-fo's.

That's the NG for you.  No creases or pressed uniforms, boot laces hanging out on boots that have never seen some Kiwi.

Quoted: Quoted: I'll take my patrol cap any day of the week thank you very much, I didnt do anything special to earn a beret.   I'll admit that it looks a damn sight better than the garison cap ever did in Class A's and B's.   I have to admit to getting irritated when people dont wear their flippin headgear properly though... Beret, Kevlar or other included. Lazy ass mo-fo's. That's the NG for you.  No creases or pressed uniforms, boot laces hanging out on boots that have never seen some Kiwi.

Cute. Would love to have you ride by some of the ACTIVE DUTY units that I've seen in various jobs that don't press their uniforms, have laces hanging out, etc. I've seen high speed delta types that don't care about their uniforms, as well as ash and trash support types, and many others in between. The reverse is also true, I've seen quite a few ate up shitbags whose uniforms would stand up and walk away by themselves, taking the mirrored jump boots with them, but they couldn't lead a group of girl scoust out of a burning building. Lots of time in a cubicle will keep your uniforms from being soiled.

Service component or job description have nothing to do with how good a soldier is at their job. There are quite a few cases where having a beat up uniform doesn't show a true example, either. Don't judge a book by it's cover, and don't fall into the sterotype trap of "All NG soldiers suck" or "All so and so rule".

Advice to live by - engage brain before typing/speaking.


ETA - Rangers should have been able to keep their rightfully earned black berets. Don't believe Shenseki's canned party line about "traditions" and "heritage" with respect to uniforms. Some people will go through some pretty amazing hoops to demonstrate why they aren't wrong.

During the 18B course in 92 we had a "strac" E-5 from division that couldn't even field strip an A-2. I guess he spent too much time creasin and pressin. Personnely I'd rather spend my time shootin, movin and communicatin.

Quoted: The  SF unit  in RI wears the green beret. Aco 2/19 www.riguard.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=138 The 173rd LRS unit in the RI guard wears the red beret. www.riguard.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=139

yes, that was the unit i was thinking of, the LRS!  sorry for my ignorance Justice23, i stand corrected.  I have a few friends in that LRS unit.  

Quoted: During the 18B course in 92 we had a "strac" E-5 from division that couldn't even field strip an A-2. I guess he spent too much time creasin and pressin. Personnely I'd rather spend my time shootin, movin and communicatin.

Gee, I fired Expert with the M16A1, M60, M79, M203, and the 1911A1, knew how to work the Prick 77, and passed every thing they said I needed to. And still had time to look "STRAC" in garrison. And I made SGT ahead of my time. Just because your good in the field doesn't mean you should look like a rag bag in garrison. They're 2 sides of the same coin, ain't no reason you can't do both.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'll take my patrol cap any day of the week thank you very much, I didnt do anything special to earn a beret.   I'll admit that it looks a damn sight better than the garison cap ever did in Class A's and B's.   I have to admit to getting irritated when people dont wear their flippin headgear properly though... Beret, Kevlar or other included. Lazy ass mo-fo's. That's the NG for you.  No creases or pressed uniforms, boot laces hanging out on boots that have never seen some Kiwi. Cute. Would love to have you ride by some of the ACTIVE DUTY units that I've seen in various jobs that don't press their uniforms, have laces hanging out, etc. I've seen high speed delta types that don't care about their uniforms, as well as ash and trash support types, and many others in between. The reverse is also true, I've seen quite a few ate up shitbags whose uniforms would stand up and walk away by themselves, taking the mirrored jump boots with them, but they couldn't lead a group of girl scoust out of a burning building. Lots of time in a cubicle will keep your uniforms from being soiled. Service component or job description have nothing to do with how good a soldier is at their job. There are quite a few cases where having a beat up uniform doesn't show a true example, either. Don't judge a book by it's cover, and don't fall into the sterotype trap of "All NG soldiers suck" or "All so and so rule". Advice to live by - engage brain before typing/speaking. ETA - Rangers should have been able to keep their rightfully earned black berets. Don't believe Shenseki's canned party line about "traditions" and "heritage" with respect to uniforms. Some people will go through some pretty amazing hoops to demonstrate why they aren't wrong.

I've performed active time,  guard time, and active guard time--I've seen it all.

Quoted: Quoted: During the 18B course in 92 we had a "strac" E-5 from division that couldn't even field strip an A-2. I guess he spent too much time creasin and pressin. Personnely I'd rather spend my time shootin, movin and communicatin. Gee, I fired Expert with the M16A1, M60, M79, M203, and the 1911A1, knew how to work the Prick 77, and passed every thing they said I needed to. And still had time to look "STRAC" in garrison. And I made SGT ahead of my time. Just because your good in the field doesn't mean you should look like a rag bag in garrison. They're 2 sides of the same coin, ain't no reason you can't do both.

+1, although I will add that sometimes people mistake a combat zone for garrison and vice versa. I was in Iraq with XVIII Airborne Corps, and talk about a garrison BS mindset on the fob if there ever was one. So many cheese dicks walkin around with pressed uniforms it was rediculous. The pog BC I was attached to even banned the wear of the boonie cap, apparently he didnt like the way it looked, which is fine when you never wear a cover anyway inside your air conditioned office...

Just a squid here but does the 101st( I know they are Air Assault) still have a "Pathfinder" unit? Wouldn't they be authorized to wear the Maroon Beret?

Quoted: Just a squid here but does the 101st( I know they are Air Assault) still have a "Pathfinder" unit? Wouldn't they be authorized to wear the Maroon Beret?

Yes and Yes.

Quoted: Quoted: The  SF unit  in RI wears the green beret. Aco 2/19 www.riguard.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=138 The 173rd LRS unit in the RI guard wears the red beret. www.riguard.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=139 yes, that was the unit i was thinking of, the LRS!  sorry for my ignorance Justice23, i stand corrected.  I have a few friends in that LRS unit.

I don't think you are ignorant at all. The only reason I know was because in the LRS unit for a couple of years.

All The Way!!

I personally don't like the fact that we have to wear black berets; my best freinds are ex Army Rangers (one served in Panama, the other served in Op. Anaconda and was injured there) and by no means I intend to dishonor them.

I prefer to return to the BDU cap, is better for my particular line of work in the military (MP). However, I do make sure that when I wear the beret, i wear it in the proper manner - shaved, trimmed and well positioned, not unlike most, who wear it as if it were a donald duck hat.

I've been in the Army long enough to know better.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'll take my patrol cap any day of the week thank you very much, I didnt do anything special to earn a beret.   I'll admit that it looks a damn sight better than the garison cap ever did in Class A's and B's.   I have to admit to getting irritated when people dont wear their flippin headgear properly though... Beret, Kevlar or other included. Lazy ass mo-fo's. That's the NG for you.  No creases or pressed uniforms, boot laces hanging out on boots that have never seen some Kiwi. Cute. Would love to have you ride by some of the ACTIVE DUTY units that I've seen in various jobs that don't press their uniforms, have laces hanging out, etc. I've seen high speed delta types that don't care about their uniforms, as well as ash and trash support types, and many others in between. The reverse is also true, I've seen quite a few ate up shitbags whose uniforms would stand up and walk away by themselves, taking the mirrored jump boots with them, but they couldn't lead a group of girl scoust out of a burning building. Lots of time in a cubicle will keep your uniforms from being soiled. Service component or job description have nothing to do with how good a soldier is at their job. There are quite a few cases where having a beat up uniform doesn't show a true example, either. Don't judge a book by it's cover, and don't fall into the sterotype trap of "All NG soldiers suck" or "All so and so rule". Advice to live by - engage brain before typing/speaking. ETA - Rangers should have been able to keep their rightfully earned black berets. Don't believe Shenseki's canned party line about "traditions" and "heritage" with respect to uniforms. Some people will go through some pretty amazing hoops to demonstrate why they aren't wrong. I've performed active time,  guard time, and active guard time--I've seen it all.

Yeah, I've seen shit bags everywhere.  I've been noticing a lot of stuff lately at Lewis that wouldn't have flown a few years ago though.  Lots of Soldiers standing around with their hands in their pockets for instance.

Wholly crap... You guys still beefin about Head gear..... Theirs still a lot of terrorists' that need killin..... get to it...
Besides, just wait till they change the class A's...... then you'll all forget about the beret.........

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Quoted:


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Quoted:


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Quoted:
I'll take my patrol cap any day of the week thank you very much, I didnt do anything special to earn a beret.

I'll admit that it looks a damn sight better than the garison cap ever did in Class A's and B's.

I have to admit to getting irritated when people dont wear their flippin headgear properly though... Beret, Kevlar or other included.

Lazy ass mo-fo's.
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That's the NG for you. No creases or pressed uniforms, boot laces hanging out on boots that have never seen some Kiwi.
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Cute. Would love to have you ride by some of the ACTIVE DUTY units that I've seen in various jobs that don't press their uniforms, have laces hanging out, etc. I've seen high speed delta types that don't care about their uniforms, as well as ash and trash support types, and many others in between. The reverse is also true, I've seen quite a few ate up shitbags whose uniforms would stand up and walk away by themselves, taking the mirrored jump boots with them, but they couldn't lead a group of girl scoust out of a burning building. Lots of time in a cubicle will keep your uniforms from being soiled.

Service component or job description have nothing to do with how good a soldier is at their job. There are quite a few cases where having a beat up uniform doesn't show a true example, either. Don't judge a book by it's cover, and don't fall into the sterotype trap of "All NG soldiers suck" or "All so and so rule".

Advice to live by - engage brain before typing/speaking.


ETA - Rangers should have been able to keep their rightfully earned black berets. Don't believe Shenseki's canned party line about "traditions" and "heritage" with respect to uniforms. Some people will go through some pretty amazing hoops to demonstrate why they aren't wrong.
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I've performed active time, guard time, and active guard time--I've seen it all.

I've seen it all too. Except an airman that can look sharp in uniform.

I've seen non-Airborne qualified folks with an Airborne unit tab wearing the beret. Pretty irritating to say the least and I wasn't even Airborne qualified.

I think the Rangers got a good deal out of the whole black beret boodoggle. The tan beret makes them look a lot cooler, since Airforce folks wear the black beret too. Nobody wears a tan or green beret unless they've done the walk.

Personally I have the fucking black beret. Partly because it makes the garrison Army a fashion show and patly because it's uncomfortable and a distraction. It serves no purpose at all. For Class A uniform wear I don't mind it. It's an improvement over the c*nt cap... but that's where I draw the line.

Quoted: The fuckers hijacked our black berets and dishonored their meaning and how difficult it was to earn the right to wear one.

By obeying orders and wearing the headgear issued to them? Get over yourself.

Quoted: the black beret was a symbol of what they had earned. You can say it's "just a hat" but to those who have earned it, it's more than that.

I earned it. It is just a hat, and a French woman's hat at that. Now what was under the hat was and is something else, but the beret is just a hat. I used to refer to mine as a tam o shanter, which drove my team leader batshit. He was very tied up in the whole clothes make the man concept. I also considered him a pathetic loser.

Just for fun, try not wearing your jump wings while assigned to 1/75th Inf. When the missing wings are called to your attention by your CoC, point out that AR670-1 says you don't have to. The results are a bit like a magnesium fire.

Back in 1987 I knew an E-6 that was in one of the NG SF units. The SF long tab had just come out and at the time the Army had a two tab limit on what you could wear, even if you had more. His group commander sent out an order that the uniform of the day would be long tab and the SF patch, which is worn with the airborne tab. He decided to wear his ranger tab and was told, (tongue in cheak), "if you like that tab so much I can find you a spot in a Ranger unit". That didn't last long.

Quoted: Just for fun, try not wearing your jump wings while assigned to 1/75th Inf. When the missing wings are called to your attention by your CoC, point out that AR670-1 says you don't have to. The results are a bit like a magnesium fire.

Quoted: Back in 1987 I knew an E-6 that was in one of the NG SF units. The SF long tab had just come out and at the time the Army had a two tab limit on what you could wear, even if you had more. His group commander sent out an order that the uniform of the day would be long tab and the SF patch, which is worn with the airborne tab. He decided to wear his ranger tab and was told, (tongue in cheak), "if you like that tab so much I can find you a spot in a Ranger unit". That didn't last long. Quoted: Just for fun, try not wearing your jump wings while assigned to 1/75th Inf. When the missing wings are called to your attention by your CoC, point out that AR670-1 says you don't have to. The results are a bit like a magnesium fire.

lol, talk about asking for a "smoking". If you're going to step on it, might as well do it with both feet

I think that the rangers have a legitimate complaint about the beret.  It is a symbol of excellence that was earned.  yes, it was organizational headgear, but being in a ranger unit is also a symbol of excellence (I almost choked typing that because i'm not all to fond of rangers)  

Guys that are giving book answers about its just a hat, and i'm just as good, you aren't any better (This would would be you OrionSix, you self important moron, I've been in an engineer unit so don't even try.) are saying this to make themselves feel better about wearing the black beret because they know deep down inside that they are wrong, regardless of what policy is.

I EARNED a green beret, but i liked wearing a PC.  wool gets hot in the summer time......

ETA: I never went to ranger school....... I figured if I wanted a short tab, I'd cut my long tab in half! (just messin' with you Ragnars)

Quoted: Guys that are giving book answers about its just a hat, and i'm just as good, you aren't any better (This would would be you OrionSix, you self important moron, I've been in an engineer unit so don't even try.) are saying this to make themselves feel better about wearing the black beret because they know deep down inside that they are wrong, regardless of what policy is.

OrionSix wasn't always in a Engineering unit, he was a 11B at one point. I don't know if he was a F*#&ing leg like I was, but he was a infantryman. And on that once you jump into some place you're just like I was as light infantry. If you need something you've got it on your back.

Quoted: Berets suck, real soldiers have Cav stetsons :)  Boonie caps are a second choice followed by a good patrol cap.  Berets are a slight improvement over the k-caps, LOL.

Stetson and spurs

Brave Rifles!

Isn't the beret actually a french hat?

All soldiers assigned to an Airborne unit wear a maroon beret. Regardless if they are Airborne qualified or not.

One angle people forget is Special Forces Support soldiers.. Every Special Forces Battalion ( to include NG) has a HSC (Headquarters Support Company) which is the BN staff, BN Supply, Parachute packers, cooks, commo guys, motor pool, etc. These guys just get assigned, and have no special selection process. The SF NG companies are normally isolated, so they have an expanded B-team (CO HQ) with more support soldiers.. In an active duty SF CO, the only non SF in the company are the supply and NBC guys.

Not sure how it works now with 528th gone and the new RSCs, but every soldier in a Ranger BN has at least gone through RIP.. Even an E2 cook, PAC clerk, Commo guy, etc.. RIP has a pretty high failure rate, especially for support soldiers. How many support guys are going to be motivated enough to for a 40min, 5 mile run, 12 mile ruck with 45lb ruck, etc? Except for the few that got suckered at MEPS, most picked a support job for a reason.

And yes, they have 11Bs working in supply, PAC office, etc.... There is not always a person with the correct MOS to fill the slot, guys that are hurt, have security clearence issues, etc. Learning a new job with OJT is not hard. I am sure more soldiers (especially support) will agree that 95% what they teach at AIT is old and outdated anyway.

Quoted: I would think the Tab has much more meaning then a piece of black felt...... Don't know about the rest of you but I spent my 21-years being a Soldier.. never got wrapped around the axle over a piece of head gear. Notice our Jar head brothers never get wrapped about head gear, they just get wrapped about the Word Marine...... of which they all consider themselves to be one and the same, regardless of job title...... Lesson to be had their for any one smart enough to find it.....hr

That can be summed up with this simple statement:


The tab is a school, the scroll(and the black beret for that matter) is a way of life.

I can't stand it when I see some wonder pogue wearing a beret and looking like a damn pizza delivery boy....the females are even worse-fuckin hair fallin out all around looking like shit run over twice. KNOWING that nobody will correct her because the pussy-whipped COC won't back them up (I know, trust me)  

I say that we either get rid of the black berets or give em back to the bat where they belong and go back to PC's.....but not cunt caps...maybe pro-tec's with PVS 9000's or something....that'd be on par with the "we aren't special so we'll dress like we are" mentality thats been running rampant since we got those damned wool blankets.  I saw a fucking cook at victory that had a complete RAV or CIRAS (couldn't tell, too busy throwing up in my mouth) Or the damn engineers at my FOB who were wearing half the blackhawk catalog and trying to tell me the "proper" way to clear a room!!! FUCK!!!!!!!!!  

Quoted: ... They feel dishonored because it USED to mean something......not anymore though. How do you thing the green berets would feel if the same thing happened?

I didn't realize headgear was capable of emotion.

Quoted: ... all my friends that worked in PAC were 11B's.  That's the way it was in 88-90.  It might be different in legland.  this is primary source knowledge of being there.

I've also know guys with admin MOS's who had line time in a Ranger Batt - seems it makes more sense to stick an injured 11B in the PAC and move an able-bodied Ranger to round out a fire team, regardless of MOS.

Every enlisted Soldier I have ever met from a Ranger Batt has gone through RIP.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I've seen VERY few that know how to wear them. Any color! The fuckers hijacked our black berets and dishonored their meaning and how difficult it was to earn the right to wear one.   Assholes. Sua Sponte, Prib So I'm a fucking asshole because I am following the order to wear the beret?  If you want to call somebody an asshole, there is only the 4 star that gave the order.   +1 and last I checked Gen Shinseki was a Ranger

Last I checked, while one could argue being tabbed makes one a Ranger (though most from the Regiment would argue otherwise), merely being tabbed has never authorized one to wear the black beret.  GEN Shinseki never served as a Ranger, and never wore the black beret as a Ranger, so your argument makes zero sense in the context of whether he would understand the Ranger's viewpoint.

Quoted: Brave Rifles!

Veterans!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I've seen VERY few that know how to wear them. Any color! The fuckers hijacked our black berets and dishonored their meaning and how difficult it was to earn the right to wear one.   Assholes. Sua Sponte, Prib So I'm a fucking asshole because I am following the order to wear the beret?  If you want to call somebody an asshole, there is only the 4 star that gave the order.   +1 and last I checked Gen Shinseki was a Ranger Last I checked, while one could argue being tabbed makes one a Ranger (though most from the Regiment would argue otherwise), merely being tabbed has never authorized one to wear the black beret.  GEN Shinseki never served as a Ranger, and never wore the black beret as a Ranger, so your argument makes zero sense in the context of whether he would understand the Ranger's viewpoint.

The way I understand the story Shitseki was a Ranger Qualified LT in Vietnam, was just finishing up his PL time in a line unit, had orders to the Division LRRP/Ranger company.  He stepped on a mine, lost his leg, got made a tanker, and waited 20+ years till he was in in a position to effect the change to allow him to wear the black beret that he was supposed to have worn while an LT.

Its kinda like when someone says "When Im king of the World"............................

Quoted: You will see Reserve soldiers wearing the maroon beret. After i left the 82nd Abn, I joined a reserve parachute rigger unit in Nashville TN so I could keep my jump status. It was kind of funny to see people look at you with the maroon beret. Sometimes we had duty and our uniform of the day was the red riggers ball cap. We had all kinds of fun with leg butter bars that had no idea. 'Yes sir, it's a red ball cap. Army baseball team sir."

God bless riggers!

Quoted: Quoted: +1 and last I checked Gen Shinseki was a Ranger Last I checked, while one could argue being tabbed makes one a Ranger (though most from the Regiment would argue otherwise), merely being tabbed has never authorized one to wear the black beret.

I'm sure some from the Reg. might think this now but that would be the same as someone from the 82d saying "just because you have jump wings, doesn't make one Airborne". In my day anyone "tabbed" was a Ranger and some who didn't have a Tab were Rangers too. In my day you could grad from Q course and not get a Tab. In my day a Q course grad was a Ranger and a jump school grad was a Paratrooper.

It doesn't matter if he's a "true" Ranger, or a just a "tab wearer."  He wasa General, and the Army Chief of Staff.  He gave the lawful order mandating the wear of the black beret by all Soldiers.  That's the damn law.  Live with it, or get out.  Either way, stop insulting every other Soldier in the Army by saying they (we) are shitbags, thieves, dishonoring the real soldiers, or whatever other bullshit you can come up with because we are obeying a lawful order.   Are you willing to make up the lost pay that a soldier would lose after multiple artical 15's or even article 32 punishment for disobeying the lawful order to wear the beret?  You know, demotions, forfieture of pay, general or lower discharge, that sort of thing.  If the black beret means so much, then keep wearing it.  Why aren't you?  Oh, because you were ordered to wear the tan one.  Same thing isn't it?  Aren't the Rangers dishonoring those who came before by wearing the tan instead?  Shouldn't they protest this injury by continuing to wear the black one no matter what?

All members of the 75th Ranger Regiment were forbidden to say anything at all about the beret situation so those of us who were in the land of the long hairs decided to say something for them. I did what I could to keep it from happening but it still happened. I got over it and moved on. I still think it was wrong and that it was  just the natural next step of a military that is more and more becoming a social experiment than a war fighting machine.

We are not saying the rest of the army is made up of a bunch of worthless dirtbags, but you have to admit that the black beret was a symbol of excellence and it really boils our blood when we see a bunch of overweight bath and laundry specialist, and pregnant female soldiers being given something I had to earn.

Quoted: All members of the 75th Ranger Regiment were forbidden to say anything at all about the beret situation so those of us who were in the land of the long hairs decided to say something for them. I did what I could to keep it from happening but it still happened. I got over it and moved on. I still think it was wrong and that it was  just the natural next step of a military that is more and more becoming a social experiment than a war fighting machine. We are not saying the rest of the army is made up of a bunch of worthless dirtbags, but you have to admit that the black beret was a symbol of excellence and it really boils our blood when we see a bunch of overweight bath and laundry specialist, and pregnant female soldiers being given something I had to earn.

Reread some of the posts here.  

Quoted: Yes we are all soldiers but it's a fact some are better than others. I don't buy into the "Army of one" b.s., sorry.

rgrprib The fuckers hijacked our black berets and dishonored their meaning and how difficult it was to earn the right to wear one. Assholes.

Something about the fuckers that stole it.  Yeah it meant a lot and was a symbol of excellance.     It's just irritating as hell when somebody bitches, no whines like a little bitch that everyone else STOLE it, and are posers, and assholes (and yes this has been said, even to a lesser degree in this thread).  As if anybody had a choice in the matter.  If we (everyone else) are thieves or assholes, or whatever, for following a lawful order, then Rangers are fucking cowards for not saying anything when that lawful order was given, and for not continuing to wear the black one to this very day.  Now Rangers are not cowards, they are disciplined troops, who gritted their teeth, saluted, said yes sir, and obeyed a lawful order, distasteful or not.  Just like the rest of us.

If the Rangers have a legitimate bitch about it, then so did the tankers who had it first in the early 70's.  Admitidly headgear then was only at the organisational level as authorised by the CoS, and then the Rodgers IIRC eliminated all organisational headgear to include the maroon beret worn by the 82nd, with the exception of the green beret since it was first authorised by a president.

Quoted: it really boils our blood when we see a bunch of overweight bath and laundry specialist, and pregnant female soldiers being given something I had to earn.

Try this way: You earned the dynamic right to wear 'The Symbol of Ranger Accomplishment' in stead of focusing on a single description like the black beret. That way, when Rangers move away from the tan beret in 20 years to flowery dresses, you automatically have obtained the right to wear that too.



NTM

Quoted: All members of the 75th Ranger Regiment were forbidden to say anything at all about the beret situation so those of us who were in the land of the long hairs decided to say something for them. I did what I could to keep it from happening but it still happened. I got over it and moved on. I still think it was wrong and that it was  just the natural next step of a military that is more and more becoming a social experiment than a war fighting machine. We are not saying the rest of the army is made up of a bunch of worthless dirtbags, but you have to admit that the black beret was a symbol of excellence and it really boils our blood when we see a bunch of overweight bath and laundry specialist, and pregnant female soldiers being given something I had to earn.

you earned a hat? funny all the rangers I know earned the prestiege of being called a ranger