Posted: 5/10/2009 6:36:34 PM EDT
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Looking to build my own version of one of these. Id rather build my own as these always have more stuff then you'll need and not enough of the stuff you would use frequently (ie 4X4's or bandaids or icepacks).... So what do you think should be in it? I'll be looking to carry it in a backpack used for multiple situations everything from home to my small business but still as a "personal" Kit.
EDIT: I'm a EMT-B and FF. Just looking for a personal bag to take with me "off duty". For anything from a scrape on my childs knee, to coming across a MVA and aiding until on duty EMS arrive. |
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With all due respect, that is a lot of shit, for your average person, and a big damn bad to tote around in a pack. What is your level of training?. Home or work, generally medical attention is nearby. Analgesic / aspirin, disinfectant, bandages, gauze and more gauze is about what most people will need. Perhaps some gloves and shears. Other than that, the DynaMed kit you posted is more than a bit much. If you need that much gear perhaps the EMT's should be called, or a trip to the ER is in order.
I have a blow out kit that I wear on my belt. It is far smaller than the DynaMed bag posted and will do more than enough until EMS can be notified. |
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I'm a 17 year medic working for a state medical team and in the back of my state truck I carry a stat pack Stat Pack. While I have advanced care supplies in the bag, the majority of the pack is loaded with bandaging supplies, sam splint, bandages, gloves, antibiotic cream, some OTC meds. If you are thinking of more traumatic stuff and you are farther away from care then I would suggest a small pouch of Quick Clot or other hemostatic bandage.
Mostly use your judgement and get what you feel that you can do without going over your level of experience. |
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im all for being prepared, but man thats alot of stuff...does public safety take long to respond to situations? are you cleared to give advanced treatment?...guess its all on the agency on how far their officers can go on treatment...
now, as for a goodie bag for yourself, that wouldnt be a bad idea...but it could be alot smaller...pretty sure trunk space is a premium for any leo .. 
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I'm sorry I didnt say. I'm a FF and EMT-B. Also a preparedness nut, and wanted a bacpack size unit for any/all OFF duty aplications. So yes for myself to have with me wherever I am.
Some of this stuff I already have(Trauma Shears, Stethoscope/Cuff, Ibuprofen) stilljust looking for a comprehensive list. 16 Adhesive Bandages (1" x 3") 2 Abdominal Pads (5" x 9") 2 Trauma Dressing (12" x 30") 20 Sterile Dressings (4" x 4") 10 Sterile Dressings (3" x 3") 2 Blood Stoppers 2 Gauze Rolls (3" NS) 2 Gauze Rolls (4" NS) 1 Waterproof Tape (1/2") 1 Waterproof Tape (1") 1 Elastic Bandage (3") 1 Elastic Bandage (4") 2 Triangular Bandages 2 Eye Pads 1 Petroleum Gauze (3" x 9") 3 Kerlix® (4-1/2") Equipment & Supplies 1 BP/Stethoscope Kit 1 SAM Splint 1 Ace Collar 1 Obstetrical Kit 1 Personal Protection Kit 1 Ipecac Syrup 1 Charcoal 1 Insta-Glucose 20 Alcohol Prep Pads 3 Antibiotic Ointment 2 Cold Packs (5" x 9") 1 Eye Wash 10 PVP Iodine 1 Instrument Pack (shears, Kelly forceps, bandage scissors, splinter forceps, penlight) 1 Space Blanket 1 No Rinse Gel (4 oz) 5 Pair Nitrile Gloves 1 Garrity® Disposable Flashlight 1 Wool type blanket Bottle Ibuprofen Bottle Childrens Benydril Bottle Childrens Acetaminophen Child size Cpr Mask |
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I'm no EMT or paramedic....but I know that unless your skills are sharp you should only carry the bandaids and asprin for minor booboos. Treating folks medically that is out of your scope of duty is a sure fire way to get sued. Good Samaritan Clause. If it's life threatening and you're the most qualified you're going to do WHATEVER you can do. If you're not on duty you would be scrutinized less in a court (especially civil) than an on duty 1st resp/EMT/FF/Medic/Doctor. Carrying medical supplies would not waive your good Samaritan protection. Just do NOT force meds...even aspirin. |
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I'm no EMT or paramedic....but I know that unless your skills are sharp you should only carry the bandaids and asprin for minor booboos. Treating folks medically that is out of your scope of duty is a sure fire way to get sued. Good Samaritan Clause. If it's life threatening and you're the most qualified you're going to do WHATEVER you can do. If you're not on duty you would be scrutinized less in a court (especially civil) than an on duty 1st resp/EMT/FF/Medic/Doctor. Carrying medical supplies would not waive your good Samaritan protection. Just do NOT force meds...even aspirin. Oh...I completely agree. Before the OP's follow-up post about being a FF/EMT I thought he was saying he was untrained and just thought it would be a good idea to have a complete medic bag. If he's trained and confident in how to use all that stuff then God Bless him. I just dont like the idea of Joe-Schmo going around startng IV's on folks and pouring Celox on everything that bleeds. I keep a home made first aid kit in my squad that consists mostly of various size band-aids, 4x4's, tape, and trauma shears. I once got my ass chewed for giving, not putting on, but giving a little girl a band-aid at one of our city parks that had a very very minor scratch. So....if it aint my kid, they get a ambulance like everyone else. |
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If you are looking for a backpack system take a look at Conterra.
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| I have a decent medic bag I carry in my trunk. I have 4x4s, sterile and unsterile, I have a sam splint, small box splints, roller guaze, gloves, peroxide, truama dressing, occlusive dressing, pen lite, BP cuff, stethescope, popcicle sticks, I even have a C-collar adult, and a lot of other stuff I would have to take a look to remeber again. I have used it twice in less than a year. Both times were MVAs that were decen MOIs and it was a good thing that I was there, a very good thing. I am a EMP-P and a Corpsman, and I did have a sticker on my car, so I drove off and did nothing somebody found out who I was it would not have been good. |
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I have a decent medic bag I carry in my trunk. I have 4x4s, sterile and unsterile, I have a sam splint, small box splints, roller guaze, gloves, peroxide, truama dressing, occlusive dressing, pen lite, BP cuff, stethescope, popcicle sticks, I even have a C-collar adult, and a lot of other stuff I would have to take a look to remeber again. I have used it twice in less than a year. Both times were MVAs that were decen MOIs and it was a good thing that I was there, a very good thing. I am a EMP-P and a Corpsman, and I did have a sticker on my car, so I drove off and did nothing somebody found out who I was it would not have been good. Yep, exactly the type of stuff I was thinking. I dont have any identifying material, but it's such a small town I'm always worried someone would say "Hey there goes so and so He's a EMT! So better to be safe then sorry.) Hoosier: yes the asprin and Benydryl is more for my family as I'd like it to be an "all around system" Definitely thin ice giving it out while not at work. |
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cool stuff thanks! ....and I'm LMAO at your sig line! |
I've carried everything from intubation gear to waist trauma bags and folsing spineboards and everything inbetween (some of it before I'd been "officially trained"  ).The most important things you can bring to an emergency scene? A pair of gloves, a cool head, a keen eye and a calm voice. Kind of like the quote from Bringing Out The Dead: "I realised that my training was useful in less than ten percent of the calls, and saving lives was rarer than that." I've thought about assembling a "boo boo" bag for the jeep - it'll probably fit into one of the french military 1st aid kits or maybe a GI tool pouch. |
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MAIN SIDE
1x burn sheet 1x pr sterile gloves 6x ammonia inhalant 1x bite stick 1x bulb syringe 1x cold pack (more if I know I'm gong to be somewhere where I might need more) 1x hot pack (more if I know I'm gong to be somewhere where I might need more) 1x glucose 1x penlight 12x alchohol prep 12x betadine prep 1x 1",2",3" tape 1x digital thermometer 5x bio-hazard bag 1x glucometer and supplies to go with it 1x SAM splint 1x set of OPA 1x set of NPA 4x tube of surgilube TRAUMA SIDE 2x ACE wrap 2x triangle bandage 2x 4" kerlix bandade 2x co-flex/co-ban 10x 4"x4" 6x 5"x9" 1x trauma dressing 4x occlusive dressings 2x trauma shears END POUCHES 1x Adult,large adult, ped., and infant BP cuff 1x Stethoscope MIDDLE 2x Sterile Water 2x nasal Canula (not for O2 I use them for other things)
1x M-DOT Hazmat book 1x Box of LG gloves 3x Lg N-95 Hepa mask 1x CPR mask (ambu I think) 1x Small sharp continer 1x small bottle hand sanitizer 1x small bottle of hospital grade cleaner (make you hands tingle if contact) 12x AA battery for pagers/what not 1x portable radio battery 12x 123 battery for light 1x spare Surefire bulb All in one of these: 
This is the same kit our medics have (minus a Intubation kit and an IV start kit) Right now I have a Water-jel kit and some Quik-Clot on the way. When I'm on duty the bag is with me and when I leave it goes in my truck Iron Duck, Pacific, Blackhawk, and 5.11 Tactical makes some good bags Blackhawk makes a roll kit thats about the size of your thigh if your tight on space. The Maxi-Medic bag (cant remember who maxes it, galls has them) is a good bag if your not gonna be loaded to the brim with stuff you'll probly never need. Cheap to, around $50. Good starter bag. hope this helps. 
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I really like that kit right above. Looks pretty good for a heavier, more decked out kit. I travel a little lighter. I don't have the same level of training. A couple of things I carry, I have not been officially "trained" on, but if its something I need to do for me or a loved one, then you can BYA I'm going to do it.... My work kit a 5.11 bail out bag. http://www.gtdist.com/ProductDetail.aspx?PartNumber=511-56026-019 Of course this is more than just medical stuff... it has a trauma-inducing kit too  Three double AR mag pouches on the outside. I carry 2 AR mags in the first two pouches. The rear most pouch contains 4 chem lights and 2 plastic door stops. It has two small pouches on either end. The front pouch I carry 20' of strapping material (for opening doors, officer extraction, bandaging, etc), and spare radio / 3V batteries, multi tool. The rear pouch contains comfort items such as power bars, sunscreen and bug dope wipes, a clear poncho, as well as four rolls of colored electrical tape on a zip tie for triage. -In winter, I add a couple of handwarmers. -In winter, I take a laynard and cinch up a face mask to the outside of the rear pocket. The main pouch contains: -Medical shears -3 individually packaged "trauma kits" in a vaccuum sealed plastic bag each containing: -Roll of bright colored vet tape -Gauze or H bandage -Hyfin or Ascherman chest seal -Pair of nitrile gloves -2 CAT tourniquets (in an AR pouch attached to the internal molle webbing for easy access) -CPR mask -1 roll of combat gauze -Hemostatic agent -Big needle -Bottle of water -Extra flex cuffs -Sharpie marker   Then this is the kit I keep in my truck, and take backpacking with me. It started as an REI backpacking First Aid kit, so I got a lot of the small stuff (for headaches, heartburn, bee stings, etc), and then added some trauma gear as well. Short of an oxygen bottle (impractical to carry), IV bags (I'm not trained to do), C collar (takes up too much space) I think this covers most of the minor and serious things I might run across, and would have a chance of actually beaing able to do some good. I'm not a trained medical professional, so I focus on the top causes of preventable death, and then will do the best I can with anything else (i.e. I can hold someone's neck still - and have done it before - until paramedics arrive.) If I'm in the backwoods, I'm going to have to improvise some things obviously. Misc medications (anti diarrheal, ibprofin, aspirin, antacid, etc) Misc comfort items (i.e lip balm, sunscreen, bug dope) Bee sting stuff Emergency blanket Hand warmers Wire splint Band aids Lots of gauze pads, misc sizes (lots more than you can see) Compressed gauze Vet wrap tape CAT Quick Clot sponge syringe Robertazzi airway/lube Needle for chest decompression Iodine and alcohol prep pads Ascherman chest seal CPR mask Gloves 20' strapping material duct tape small plastic vial (for bugs, ticks, foreign objects, etc) tweezers sharpie crappy scissors (need some better ones)   |
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I really like that kit right above. Looks pretty good for a heavier, more decked out kit. ~snip~ If your refering to the bag itself, they are a very good bag, however you will pay a bit more for it about $150 is what I'm finding them for. Good zippers, dont bind up or snag. The material is heavy duty. One of our crews dragged one behind their rig for about 13miles. (left it on the bumber, sling got caught in the tailboard) had a few scuff marks but no tears. Still in "new" condition. That was 3 years ago. I just checked the bag in about an hour ago (I'm "working" right now  )
Will add: it also has rigid boards in the main compartment. They are foam covered, compressed, waterproof, cardboard. Hold up pretty good. Has reflective striping around it. Inside is very spacious as well. After reading these post, I need some stuff. Thanks for the Ideas 
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Quoted:.............to coming across a MVA and aiding until on duty EMS arrive.
I'll take this part first. If you are thinking that way, how are they going to know they are needed then and there? Long story short, my thinking is similar, but along different lines. I'm a mission leader, so I carry both the company's gear and my own personal pack on the job, and my personal pack on my own. But I'm also thinking of how I would get a signal out for help so I've gotten into CB radios in addition to the cell phone. All that said, I tend to buy my kits, either for myself or giving gifts to family in hurricane zones, from REI such as this one which I believe is my personal pack........and then I add things along the way as I come across them. What I carry in the car is not a trauma pack; it's a bail out bag. An assortment of things from food, water, first aid, fire making, emergency radios, folding shovel, etc.. to assist in staying alive should I become stranded somewhere. Is that relative? Well, yes it is because it goes with the way I think. A multiple of potential missions at any one time, there is an assortment of gear aboard so for whatever I come across, I probably have the odds and ends with me to put together some kind of answer. BUT.......I'm not carrying the full package directed in one particular path as I might be when on a job for the company. For them, I'm carrying oxygen, for example ............ but no way am I carrying that privately. Along with all the operational limitations, it's just not cost effective for my limited budget to have that with me. End point: estimate what you might come across, what you are willing to handle, and equip from that aspect. ____________________________________________________ ("What can you build from our supplies?"––Captain Hunt "Ohhh, many things. A short range intruder detection system, stellar communications, a force field,....."––Romi, (w,stte), "Andromeda") |
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Quoted: I really like that kit right above. Looks pretty good for a heavier, more decked out kit. I travel a little lighter. I don't have the same level of training. A couple of things I carry, I have not been officially "trained" on, but if its something I need to do for me or a loved one, then you can BYA I'm going to do it.... ~snip~ If your refering to the bag itself, they are a very good bag, however you will pay a bit more for it about $150 is what I'm finding them for. Good zippers, dont bind up or snag. The material is heavy duty. One of our crews dragged one behind their rig for about 13miles. (left it on the bumber, sling got caught in the tailboard) had a few scuff marks but no tears. Still in "new" condition. That was 3 years ago. I just checked the bag in about an hour ago (I'm "working" right now )Will add: it also has rigid boards in the main compartment. They are foam covered, compressed, waterproof, cardboard. Hold up pretty good. Has reflective striping around it. Inside is very spacious as well. After reading these post, I need some stuff. Thanks for the Ideas LOL... that's a solid bag to survive that trip. Reminds me of the dog in National Lampoon's "Vacation." |
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I'm sorry I didnt say. I'm a FF and EMT-B. Also a preparedness nut, and wanted a bacpack size unit for any/all OFF duty aplications. So yes for myself to have with me wherever I am. Some of this stuff I already have(Trauma Shears, Stethoscope/Cuff, Ibuprofen) stilljust looking for a comprehensive list. 16 Adhesive Bandages (1" x 3") 2 Abdominal Pads (5" x 9") 2 Trauma Dressing (12" x 30") 20 Sterile Dressings (4" x 4") 10 Sterile Dressings (3" x 3") 2 Blood Stoppers 2 Gauze Rolls (3" NS) 2 Gauze Rolls (4" NS) 1 Waterproof Tape (1/2") 1 Waterproof Tape (1") 1 Elastic Bandage (3") 1 Elastic Bandage (4") 2 Triangular Bandages 2 Eye Pads 1 Petroleum Gauze (3" x 9") 3 Kerlix® (4-1/2") Equipment & Supplies 1 BP/Stethoscope Kit 1 SAM Splint 1 Ace Collar 1 Obstetrical Kit 1 Personal Protection Kit 1 Ipecac Syrup 1 Charcoal 1 Insta-Glucose 20 Alcohol Prep Pads 3 Antibiotic Ointment 2 Cold Packs (5" x 9") 1 Eye Wash 10 PVP Iodine 1 Instrument Pack (shears, Kelly forceps, bandage scissors, splinter forceps, penlight) 1 Space Blanket 1 No Rinse Gel (4 oz) 5 Pair Nitrile Gloves 1 Garrity® Disposable Flashlight 1 Wool type blanket Bottle Ibuprofen Bottle Childrens Benydril Bottle Childrens Acetaminophen Child size Cpr Mask IMO you can lose a lot of these items because you will never use them or you can make due with other things. For instance why carry 3x3 and 4x4's? Just carry 4x4's, 5x9's and a couple of trauma dressings. I think 4 inch rolls of kling are too big, 2 or 3 inch work the best and just use kling and 1 inch tape, you don't need stretching bandages and things like that. You shouldn't just put a collar on somebody, if you're taking c-spine precautions they get full immobilization so lose that. Lose the things like alcohol preps, gloves, disposable flashlights, etc, they don't last long in storage in a car trunk and just give a false sense of security that you have equipment that will be no good when you go to use it(alcohol preps dry out, gloves degrade, batteries die, etc) The wool blanket is bulky and can get musty and nasty. You'll never use Ipecac so lose that, you'll probably never use charcoal, the OB kit, or the personal protection kit. Lose the medications because they're not in you protocols(at least they're not in mine as an I) Things like BVM's and CPR masks are bulky and you'll never use them unless this kit is for your EMS and not a personal kit, keep in mind also that CPR is pretty labor intensive and unless you have EMS close by there isn't anything you're going to do for that person, especially in a SHTF/mass casualty incident. You have a lot of stuff that is just extra bulk IMO. You could condense it into a much smaller kit of things that you will use instead of a lot of crap that you won't, especially if it's for a personal kit. If you're building this just for a personal first aid/SHTF kit then I would put things like adult Benydril with a chart and measuring/dispensing device for pediatric dosages, Hydrocortizone, antibiotic cream, Tylenol and/or Ibuprofen (keep in mind that Ibuprofen shouldn't be used in bleeding situations), ASA, A good flashlight with fresh batteries, etc, etc. Also keep in mind that items like meds and batteries need to be rotated to keep them fresh. Remeber, if you're dispensing medications "on the job" you need to stay within your protocols. Just my .02, hope it helps some. Stay safe... |
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I'm no EMT or paramedic....but I know that unless your skills are sharp you should only carry the bandaids and asprin for minor booboos. Treating folks medically that is out of your scope of duty is a sure fire way to get sued. Good Samaritan Clause. If it's life threatening and you're the most qualified you're going to do WHATEVER you can do. If you're not on duty you would be scrutinized less in a court (especially civil) than an on duty 1st resp/EMT/FF/Medic/Doctor. Carrying medical supplies would not waive your good Samaritan protection. Just do NOT force meds...even aspirin. I think you are ok as long as you stick with BLS and make a real effort to understand and learn what you intend to do. |
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For most people I would suggest that they get something within their skill level like this First Aid Kit and add a few things that they use the most.
For more experienced and trained people I would suggest something more like the PRO-II Trauma Bag. Even if you are not experienced or trained, in an emergency you might run in to someone that is an expert and does not have their equipment. |
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I never go anywhere without a pack of Quick-Clot. I also posted this in another thread on first aid kits: WoundStat found to be potentially hazardous By Gina Cavallaro - Staff writer Posted : Wednesday Apr 22, 2009 5:44:42 EDT The Army has permanently suspended the use of WoundStat, a new product it had begun sending to war zones to help stop bleeding in wounds where bandages or tourniquets could not be applied. Safety and clotting effectiveness studies conducted by the U.S. Army Institute of Surgical Research determined that WoundStat’s clotting granules, which are poured directly into a wound, could injure the lining and wall of a blood vessel and potentially lead to surgical replacement of the vessel, according to an April 17 All Army Activity message. The granules could also cause damage if they travel to other parts of the body, as occurred in two test animals that were found to have the granules in their lungs, the message said. The studies also revealed that WoundStat was “no more effective than plain gauze for treating coagulopathic bleeding.” The risk of using WoundStat was found to outweigh any benefit as a backup hemostatic agent to Combat Gauze, which is being used by medics now and will continue to be the preferred blood clotting bandage. The message instructed commanders to replace the two WoundStat packages issued to combat medics with Combat Gauze in addition to the three Combat Gauze packages medics now receive. Units were instructed to continue turning in the WoundStat to their medical supply support activity whose responsibility it is to ensure 100 percent return of the product. Guidance for disposition of WoundStat products currently in stock will be issued by the Army surgeon general at a future date. More than 17,000 packages of WoundStat purchased in October were being distributed as a replacement for QuikClot, which sometimes caused second degree burns around the wound. Medical professionals in the combat zones were told in December to stop using WoundStat until the testing could be done. The product had been approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. |
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Never heard of WoundStat, we changed the granular quik-clot for the contained sponge as soon as they came out. One of the members of my staff had the unfortunate opportunity to use it on a leg wound a few months ago. Member discharged during holstering.
Thanks for the info on WoundStat. |
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Never heard of WoundStat, we changed the granular quik-clot for the contained sponge as soon as they came out. One of the members of my staff had the unfortunate opportunity to use it on a leg wound a few months ago. Member discharged during holstering. Thanks for the info on WoundStat. Part of the reason I posted that article is because (according to the article) WoundStat replaced QuickClot because it was determined that Quick Clot wasn't safe either (I highlighted that part). They also said that these hemostatic agents are no more effective than a dressing. Not that it matters, but there is a reason I have been interested in this topic. I have worked as a paramedic full time in a very high call volume EMS system for well over 20 years. I have treated trauma of all kinds on a regular basis including many gunshot wounds as well as very severe multi-system trauma. I have never had bleeding I couldn't control with a dressing and never had anyone bleed out from external bleeding. I never saw the need for these hemostatic agents myself and often wondered why EMS providers wern't using them, ERs wern't using them, no mention of them is made in the various pre-hospital trauma classes (PHTLS, or ATLS) or the National Registry skills station involving bleeding control. So, I have been keeping my eyes open for information on them. |
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Never heard of WoundStat, we changed the granular quik-clot for the contained sponge as soon as they came out. One of the members of my staff had the unfortunate opportunity to use it on a leg wound a few months ago. Member discharged during holstering. Thanks for the info on WoundStat. Part of the reason I posted that article is because (according to the article) WoundStat replaced QuickClot because it was determined that Quick Clot wasn't safe either (I highlighted that part). They also said that these hemostatic agents are no more effective than a dressing. Not that it matters, but there is a reason I have been interested in this topic. I have worked as a paramedic full time in a very high call volume EMS system for well over 20 years. I have treated trauma of all kinds on a regular basis including many gunshot wounds as well as very severe multi-system trauma. I have never had bleeding I couldn't control with a dressing and never had anyone bleed out from external bleeding. I never saw the need for these hemostatic agents myself and often wondered why EMS providers wern't using them, ERs wern't using them, no mention of them is made in the various pre-hospital trauma classes (PHTLS, or ATLS) or the National Registry skills station involving bleeding control. So, I have been keeping my eyes open for information on them. I don't have the experience that 444 has but if a person is bleeding so bad you cannot control it with a dressing they aren't going to make it with anything. Please educate me if somebody has any experience to the contrary but if somebody cuts a major artery they are done unless they can somehow clamp it or they are laying on an operating table. I've seen an exposed Femoral artery once and I cannot imagine any clotting agent stopping that if it were severed, it was the size of my pinky finger. I've never seen bleeding that couldn't at least be slowed substantialy enough to get them to the ED and on to surgery with standard dressings. Stay safe... |
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Never heard of WoundStat, we changed the granular quik-clot for the contained sponge as soon as they came out. One of the members of my staff had the unfortunate opportunity to use it on a leg wound a few months ago. Member discharged during holstering. Thanks for the info on WoundStat. Part of the reason I posted that article is because (according to the article) WoundStat replaced QuickClot because it was determined that Quick Clot wasn't safe either (I highlighted that part). They also said that these hemostatic agents are no more effective than a dressing. Not that it matters, but there is a reason I have been interested in this topic. I have worked as a paramedic full time in a very high call volume EMS system for well over 20 years. I have treated trauma of all kinds on a regular basis including many gunshot wounds as well as very severe multi-system trauma. I have never had bleeding I couldn't control with a dressing and never had anyone bleed out from external bleeding. I never saw the need for these hemostatic agents myself and often wondered why EMS providers wern't using them, ERs wern't using them, no mention of them is made in the various pre-hospital trauma classes (PHTLS, or ATLS) or the National Registry skills station involving bleeding control. So, I have been keeping my eyes open for information on them. I suppose we all have various reasons for studying items. Several years ago, I was looking at this item for a proposal of a "self sealing body armor". Ie, if one gets hit enough for a major bleed, there was a clotting agent to stifle the wound so they wouldn't bleed out before help arrived. Spent a few weeks doing primary research on the possibility and the nature of bullet wounds but eventually shelved the subject for two major reasons. First of all, clotting agents had just recently appeared on the scene and were in the process of being patented. Hence, there wasn't much available on Dr. Reed (Reid?)'s work. (or something like that). Secondly, it soon became apparent that testing the project was going to be very difficult. But it is a subject that I look at again and again over the years, gathering information on. One of the places I once saw a note about clotting agents was in the (maybe this was the title) "Joint Special Operations Medical Journal". So.....one should keep up with their reading. ______________________________ ("Teddy Bears, not Kevlar, that's the answer! Someone should tell the LAPD!"––Fed to Park Service Ranger Anna Pigeon after the stuffing spilled from a teddy bear stuffed in her dry suit has stifle the wound caused by a boat hook slash, (w,stte), a Nevada Barr book) |
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If you are going to go for things such as WaterJel or QuikClot check with your med control and local protocols. If you are going beyond what you are trained to and what the state/the med control you are under allows Good Samaritan clause usually doesn't count. If your going for Glucose, charcoal or any other medication again check with your local protocols and what your allowed.
There are a lot of items in a lot of kits you will never use and is duplicated. Why have 2x2, 3x3 and 4x4 when you can just carry 4x4 and use it for everything. Same thing for cloth tape. If you need to you can rip it in half. |
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I would like to point out that I am looking for any real research on the subject of Quick Clot or similar agents. The article I posted is one of the only things I have found on the subject. I don't know much about these agents at all and am trying to stimulate discussion on the subject. I am in no way trying to say I have any expertise in their use: it is just the opposite. I have very little knowlege of them at all.
A fairly new development in a similar subject is the use of tourniquets. When I originally began my career in EMS, touriquets were looked upon as the work of the devil. We were told that under only the most dire circumstances were we to use a tourniquet. It was believed that using a touriquet meant almost certain loss of the limb distal to the tourniquet. The whole compartment syndrome thing also was a big issue. Up until the first of this year the National Registry skills station for bleeding control consisted of direct pressure with a bandage, more bandage, elevation, and pressure points. However, as of the first of the year, the new standard is direct pressure and if that doesn't stop the bleeding, go straight to a tourniquet. It has been discovered that a limb distal the tourniquet is viable for up to 5-6 hours after application of the tourniquet. This is obviously another reason why hemostatic agents like Quick Clot are at best unnessessary without regard to the fact that they have dangerous side effects. Nignus brings up some other very valid points. If you are actually certified as an EMT, or whatever, you have to work within your scope of practice. You can't use techniques, proceedures, or medications that you are not legally trained and licenced to use. This is going to dictate what you have in your kit. Even over the counter medications are a very grey area if you are using them on someone other than yourself (legally). For example, asprin is listed in our drug formulary and we have specific protocols for administering it. In our case it is used strictly for cardiac chest pain. If we gave it for a headache or isolated trauma, we would be going outside of our protocols and would face the consequences. Benedryl is another drug listed in our formulary. It's use is specific. I am pretty sure that EMT-Bs are allowed to give either medication. Glucose (oral and IV) is another item that are listed in our formulary and given under only specific conditions under protocol. One of these conditions is that we know the patients blood glucose because we tested it prior to giving the medication. Ibuprofen and other OTC medications arn't in our drug formulary at all, therefore we can't give them. Syrup of Ipecac is now out of favor and it's use is not recommended. The fact that we might be off-duty doesn't change a thing. Why ? Because we are licensed and MUST stay within our scope of practice. I would be very leary of giving any medications to anyone other than myself or possibly someone in my immediate family. For that matter I would be very careful about giving any medical care to anyone outside of my immediate family unless it was a life or death emergency. That sucks, but our legal system is what it is. I recently (within the last couple weeks) sat in on a lecutre given by a licensed and practicing attorney discussing pre-hospital EMS and it's legal issues. His advice based on the legal side of things was to avoid becoming involved in medical treatment outside of work. He agreed that this is a moral/ethical issue as well as a legal issue, but legally you are walking on thin ice. According to him, don't count on the "Good Smaritan" law to help you if you get into legal problems. As an EMT-B, you are trained and are supposed to know what you are doing, AND are required to know what you have been trained and licensed to do. If something goes wrong because of something you did, you are going to be held accountable. If you give medications you are not trained and licensed to give and something occurs because of it, you are going to be in trouble. The Good Samaritan law might work if you did something stupid with good intentions but you didn't know any better. But, as a licensed EMT-B, that isn't the case. He also brings up another excellent piece of advice on duplication of equipment. We carry bandaids, 4x4s and trauma dressings. If you want something smaller than a 4x4, you fold a 4x4 in half. If you need something bigger than a 4x4 you use more 4x4s or a trauma dressing. 2" tape is all you need. You can easily tear it for anything smaller. If you need something bigger, you put more than one strip of tape. I can see having two kinds of 2" tape: waterproof and the other whatever you call the other stuff that is like plastic. From my experience and my anticipated uses, I would go small with the first aid kit rather than having a lot of stuff. |
| The original formula of Quick Clot did have a higher temperature resulting in burns in application. The second version has lower temperatures, still may result in burns, but much lower in temperature. We carry it because of the possibility of extreme transport times, if we can transport and also for the TEMS |
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one thing quick clot a real life saver I thought quick clot should only be used in dire situations because the risk of infection increases dramatically? Basically only if direct pressure won't help and you're too far from a hospital. I thought I read it's a bitch to scrub from wounds. |
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one thing quick clot a real life saver I thought quick clot should only be used in dire situations because the risk of infection increases dramatically? Basically only if direct pressure won't help and you're too far from a hospital. I thought I read it's a bitch to scrub from wounds. It is only to be used as a last resort. If it was the best every EMS unit in the nation would carry it. Just remember to apply pressure and use sterile technique. Back on the main topic if I was going to prepare a jump bag I would not buy a kit. Most of the time these pre made kits are filled with some cheap useless junk. I would buy a small bag and then buy the med supplies that you will most likely use from a reputable dealer. Also remember all medical supplies expire and depending on your state law they will need to be replaced yearly. Now that you are an EMT you work under a different set of rules and you can be sued for malpractice. |
| Unless you are working in a VERY remote area you shouldn't need much more than some of those Israeli type combines, and a tourniquet. Even the stethoscope isn't needed, unless you cart tons of other gear with it like a sphygomonometer, and then what can you really do? You need an angiocath or a big ol' syringe to decompress a chest, etc etc...... and the next thing you know you have a duffle bag full of stuff in your trunk. |
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one thing quick clot a real life saver I thought quick clot should only be used in dire situations because the risk of infection increases dramatically? Basically only if direct pressure won't help and you're too far from a hospital. I thought I read it's a bitch to scrub from wounds. It is only to be used as a last resort. If it was the best every EMS unit in the nation would carry it. Just remember to apply pressure and use sterile technique. Back on the main topic if I was going to prepare a jump bag I would not buy a kit. Most of the time these pre made kits are filled with some cheap useless junk. I would buy a small bag and then buy the med supplies that you will most likely use from a reputable dealer. Also remember all medical supplies expire and depending on your state law they will need to be replaced yearly. Now that you are an EMT you work under a different set of rules and you can be sued for malpractice. Very useful for the military when we may not be able to transport right away. It is effective but comes with some very serious side effects that your standard ambulance company probably would not want to deal with the liability of. I was using expired stuff in the .mil because I could not get any more, it still worked OK...again a liability that EMS doesn't want to deal with. |
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one thing quick clot a real life saver I thought quick clot should only be used in dire situations because the risk of infection increases dramatically? Basically only if direct pressure won't help and you're too far from a hospital. I thought I read it's a bitch to scrub from wounds. It is only to be used as a last resort. If it was the best every EMS unit in the nation would carry it. Just remember to apply pressure and use sterile technique. Back on the main topic if I was going to prepare a jump bag I would not buy a kit. Most of the time these pre made kits are filled with some cheap useless junk. I would buy a small bag and then buy the med supplies that you will most likely use from a reputable dealer. Also remember all medical supplies expire and depending on your state law they will need to be replaced yearly. Now that you are an EMT you work under a different set of rules and you can be sued for malpractice. Used properly quik-clot will still burn the hell out of you and cause numerous othr problems, even the new stuff in the teabags. Only time we ever opted to use it was for a neck would; every other time it was combines/tourniquets and back to the FOB. Tourniquets get a seriously bad (and unearned) rep stateside. |
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one thing quick clot a real life saver I thought quick clot should only be used in dire situations because the risk of infection increases dramatically? Basically only if direct pressure won't help and you're too far from a hospital. I thought I read it's a bitch to scrub from wounds. It is only to be used as a last resort. If it was the best every EMS unit in the nation would carry it. Just remember to apply pressure and use sterile technique. Back on the main topic if I was going to prepare a jump bag I would not buy a kit. Most of the time these pre made kits are filled with some cheap useless junk. I would buy a small bag and then buy the med supplies that you will most likely use from a reputable dealer. Also remember all medical supplies expire and depending on your state law they will need to be replaced yearly. Now that you are an EMT you work under a different set of rules and you can be sued for malpractice. Used properly quik-clot will still burn the hell out of you and cause numerous othr problems, even the new stuff in the teabags. Only time we ever opted to use it was for a neck would; every other time it was combines/tourniquets and back to the FOB. Tourniquets get a seriously bad (and unearned) rep stateside. Thanks for your insight. As I posted earlier, the attitude about tuourniquets seems to have come full circle and is not the second line treatment after a pressure dressing. |