[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Renta Cops (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 8/13/2008 8:25:11 PM EDT
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I am a full time officer with full arrest powers, etc. I was just forced to surrender my entire gunbelt to the renta cops here at Methodist hospital in Memphis, Tn. to be secured in a property room. I was in full uniform. My father is a patient there. They said it was because I was across state lines. You know, I've worn guns in lots of places here in this shithole called Memphis(wouldn't come here without one) this just pissed me off. May not change anything but a friend of my MIL supposedly just took over as head of security for Methodist hospitals in Memphis. Rant off. |
This, I'd really like Mr. Rent a Cop to try and stop you.  Tell him there are laws against Battery to a LEO... |
But he can still carry under HR218. |
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HR218 won't allow you to carry where prohibited by private person or business, it is really no better than a CCW permit for a private citizen. I am mainly pissed over the way it was handled. The renta cop starts spouting off "you can't wear that in here" to me," not officer we need you to lock your weapon up while you are here." I'm in full uniform and there is a crowd standing around.I told him was a full time officer etc. I have been allowed in here several times over the last few weeks armed. My problem is most of them think they are something they aren't, I would bet a majority of them have been fired or have never been able to get a job as a police officer. A supervisor shows up and finally he offers to lock it in his property room. I am not a lawsuit type guy but I wish someone would SUE the pants off of a business or other location that allowed them to be hurt due to refusing lawful carry. |
Federal Code says i can carry a weapon across state lines as a LEO. |
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I know its irritating but it's their business and their rules. If a local business in your town decided to prohibit officers from coming in there with a weapon ON DUTY, baring a police matter, you couldn't carry your weapon in there if you were there on non-official business. I would call the head of security and talk to him just to see if it is a policy or if the security guy was just being an ass. If it's policy, then you are SOL. You don't have free reign to take your weapon anywhere just because you are a cop in full uniform. |
Do you have any legal sources to back this up? The only problem that I see here is that he was out of state. A Hospital is a .gov building...he can carry there. The only places in WA that police cannot carry is a mental hospital and a jail. As far as a business not wanting me there because I have a firearm on duty, I would tell them to pound sand. |
Section 13A-11-52 Carrying pistol on premises not his own; who may carry pistol. Except as otherwise provided in this article, no person shall carry a pistol about his person on premises not his own or under his control; but this section shall not apply to any sheriff or his deputy or police officer of an incorporated town or city in the lawful discharge of the duties of his office, or to United States marshal or his deputies, rural free delivery mail carriers in the discharge of their duties as such, bonded constables in the discharge of their duties as such, conductors, railway mail clerks and express messengers in the discharge of their duties. (Acts 1919, No. 204, p. 196; Code 1923, §3487; Code 1940, T. 14, §163; Code 1975, §13-6-122.) |
Remember, the definition says "in the lawful discharge of the duties of his office". For example, if you stop in a restaurant to eat on duty in your jurisdiction, you are not there in an official capacity. Now if you go there to take a report from someone at the business, then you are there in an official capacity. Now I don't know of any business that prohibits LEOs from entering armed when not in an official capacity but the fact remains, if you are not there on official business, then you fall under the particular business' rules. I wouldn't have liked being treated like the OP either but the fact remains, since he was NOT THERE IN AN OFFICIAL CAPACITY EVEN IF HE WAS IN FULL UNIFORM, he is bound by their rules. |
Legally you aren't allowed to carry in there, but it is unusual for them to have stopped you. I am not agreeing with the Renta Cop...just pointing out he didn't break the law disarming you. If you was going in there on any official police duties then he would not have had any legal right to take your weapon. You might want to talk to the head Renta Cop and tell them what happened. It might be policy of the building not to take your weapon and it might be policy that they take your weapon if you aren't on official duty. |
Bull shit!!!!..If I'm in uniform, in a marked unit and 10-41 w/ dispatch, everything I do is in official capacity. |
+1 if i'm in service in my city, no one tells me where i can carry and where i can't. If i'm eating lunch i'm expected to respond to calls, so i'm going to be armed on duty. |
I suspect the intent of the comment was to say the establishment can refuse to serve you just like they can refuse to serve anyone else that doesn't meet their 'standard' - barring any protected class discrimination BS. Brian |
Sorry to burst your bubble but in the simple example listed, you are NOT in an official capacity. Official capacity means that you are doing a certain job that your agency directed you to do. For example, if you are sent to a local restaurant to take a report from a customer there, then you are there on official business. If you are there on your own decision to eat a meal, then you are NOT there on official business. You may be on duty but you are taking care of personal business. Eating a meal is not a department directed call for service. Officers do not have a blank check to do whatever they want when working or when off duty. The Constitution doesn't place restrictions on citizens. It places restrictions on US. You would do well to remember that. Businesses can restrict whoever they want to INCLUDING YOU!! (baring liberal equal oportunity BS) I know some cops don't like it when they are told they can't do something in their particular jurisdiction but the fact remains, YOU CAN'T AUTOMATICALLY DO WHATEVER YOU WANT TO EVEN IF YOU ARE "ON DUTY"!! Now I wouldn't go to a place off duty if they are LE unfriendly and I have never seen a business treat an off duty officer like the OP mentioned. But, while the OP's experience would irritate me too, it is still the businesses right to do so. Carry concealed and out of uniform next time!!!! |
As a former rent a cop , personally I would not turn over my personal pistol to a rent a cop, I would guess as a cop it'd be an even bigger deal if some rent a cop accidentally fired off a round into some granny coming in for chemo. I suppose if you took all the rounds, but still I wouldn't be crazy about it.
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I've been on a contract security detail and we did require local, state, and even some federal agencies to disarm before admitting them inside. FPS and SS were the only ones I knew of who entered armed. Sure you could rudely decline, but go have a seat in your car while you decline. This was a FEMA head shed in a non-GSA site. I've heard of other hospitals doing the same as the OP ranted about. |
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I'm sorry this turned into a pissing match, about police work. Anyway, Ill play by their rules. My MIL's friend just took over as head of security for the Methodist Health Care system in Memphis and I'll be offering some suggestions to him like 1) Signs posted at the entrances prohibiting weapons, so dumbasses like me will know. 2) Lock boxes for officers, that they keep the keys to. 3) Allowing it one time and not the next. 4) Customer service training for the security officers that have to work there, unarmed. |
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You could probably get some on-duty Memphis cop to take his lunch break at the hospital and go up with you. I doubt they would give a problem to a local officer. I know I would do it if asked, so would most of my partners. I do agree that barring official business they can ban you from their establishment. People try to kick us off their property a lot. Sometimes they can, mostly they can't. Not to put to fine a point on it but the security guy is a douche. If you don't need to go in on the job, then go in civvies, conceal and don't ask don't tell. Joe |
Correct. There are many DoD and Federal civilian sites where you may be admitted to the site, but immediately escorted to an arms room to secure your service weapon while you conduct personal business, and there are very few circumstances where you will be permitted to conduct official business in lieu of the Federal LEOs on the site. Those who balk at the policy are encouraged to try again another day, and their watch commander will get a phone call.
bkssniper, it sucks that you got the low end of the customer service scale from the security guard. Government or private sector, the contract for security services almost always goes to the lowest bidder and to be the lowest bidder, it's too easy to cut the budget lines for training and pay that would attract better quality personnel. You get big kudos for having the right attitude by suggesting more effective policies and solutions, instead of just bitchin'. Good on ya. |
Was this Methodist Central. You have to go through a metal detector just to get into the ER waiting area there. They even give on duty MPD a hassle lately. The security at the Methodist hospitals has really gone to shit in the last few years, it's who they are hiring. That is where we (MPD) have to go for most OJIs. Use to be you got hurt on duty and you got right in, now you wait with everyone else. Doesn't bother me, I am paid by the hour, but bugs a lot of folks. |
Hey, just looking out for the good taxpayers. It's is on their dime that we sit around the waiting room doing nothing when we could be out saving the world 
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So if you are in your jurisdiction, and you call the dispatcher, and say, "I'm going to be 10-7 at General Hospital", and you walk in, and General Hospital guard says you can't carry your gun in here, and you say "Screw you, I am", and General Hospital guard says, we're calling the police, and then they do call the police department and ask for a police officer, and the dispatcher sees you are 10-7 there, and calls you, and tells you to handle the call, so you go up to the General Hospital guard and say, "Okay, the police are here, what's the problem?", what happens then? |
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I once got into an argument with a PA at our citys hospital about the crappy care he was giving my prisoner (he really was fuckin' the guy up cuz he didn't know what he was doing). Conversation went like this: PA: you need to leave my ER or i'll call security" Me: You mean the security guys who are retired from my city, or the security guys who are too old/fat to be cops? PA: you need to leave NOW, you're trespassing! Me: (step forward about 1 inch from the doctor) I'd like to see you make me PA: (backpedaling) You'd better leave!!! Me: Call 911, i'm sure the response time will be fantastic PA: I'm putting this in a report! Me: okay, bye |
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If I'm in uniform I am armed. period. Only exception is when I go to the prison or the secure areas in the courthouse. If I stop to eat or take a leak, it's called a "business check" and is part of my duties. I would never hand over my weapon to a private security guard, but I also dont go places in uniform outside of my jurisdiction, much less my state. If it's more than a stop at the grocery store or a bite to eat on my way home, it can wait until I get some normal clothes on and get out of this rolling bullet magnet they call a unit. Where in HR218 does it say that our carry privilege can be restricted by whoever wants to do so? Last I read, it was only prisons, federal court, and airplanes. |
This Act may be cited as the `Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004'. SEC. 2. EXEMPTION OF QUALIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS FROM STATE LAWS PROHIBITING THE CARRYING OF CONCEALED FIREARMS. (a) In General- Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after section 926A the following: `Sec. 926B. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified law enforcement officers `(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b). `(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that-- `(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or `(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park. |
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As a current rent a cop, it depends on where I would be working if I was going to confiscate a firearm from a LEO. Distribution center where I'm posted now or the occasional NASCAR race that I work, no, I wouldn't confiscate. Coal fired power plant that was my last site? Yes (unless its in response to an emergency whereupon you would need to be armed). Not because I don't want you to have your firearm, but an AD+NH3=(most painful death I could ever imagine for everyone that came to work that day) |
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA yeaaaaah no. |
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I would have told him in the evermost polite terms to get bent. I got called to our hospital for a 'man with gun' call. Turns out it was a local PO there with his fiance, who was in the ER. He had his gun on his belt, with his badge. They wanted me to tell him to leave, I told them I wasn't telling him anything. Didn't even get a complaint on that one. |
A business may not be able to restrict your off duty right to carry, but they can certainly restrict your ability to enter a premises off duty. |
So you had your ego hurt a bit. IMO, your attitude is officious. |
No, its not. Go ask your chief. |
| I would NEVER surrender my weapon or any of my police equipment to a security guard.If he tried to impede me,he would be going to jail for obstructing.I am on duty 24 hours a day.In Nevada a police officer has full powers of arrest 24/7 anywhere in the state.I don't wear my uniform outside the state. |
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Do I like Renta Cops, no, but he is following his orders just as you do in the performance of your duties. If you are in another state, you have left your jurisdiction and must comply with the laws of that state. Check out reciprocity/if you have a ccw, or any other loop holes that would give you the right (open or concealed). Next time, I would leave the duty belt in the trunk and have a concealed weapon available. Some times life is just not fair at all, some times, it just sucks. |
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I'm sorry if my ego seems officious to you. I guess 16 years has made me that way. I agree, IN my state I am considered ON duty and required to serve in my OFFICIAL capacity 24/7. You know protect the innocent arrest scumbags, prevent anyone from being hurt, etc. The stuff officers take an oath to do and put their lives on the line doing everyday. You/I could face criminal charges if we don't act. IF I had been in my state it would have been a different scenario I believe. I was rushing to see my father and did not want to take the time to change. Wanna know something else, I went over there last night and some of the other security officers apologized for the renta cop's attitude. It was my mistake for not being concealed but it WON'T happen again. |
You don't have a work "schedule"? What about days "off"? "Vacation"? What about pursuits in your personal vehicle? Are those required as well? |
Hmm... too bad. Many cops down here, including a few on this board, make some serious coin being rented out to private firms. Hell, it's a regular racket. Show up in your uniform with your duty sidearm and a portable radio and make $40/hour and up to stand by the door in a grocery store or hang out in front of Walmart. Yep, for the right price ANYONE can rent themselves a genuine Police Officer. 
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Dont be obtuse, you know what he means man, you're smarter than that. |
I am not taking sides!!! We can't just go any place we want and carry a weapon just because we are a Deputy or a member of LE. We do have restrictions and your chief needs to realize this too. There are a lot of members of LE that do have a ego problem and assume they are above the law and can do anything while in uniform. The federal law that grants all LEO's to be able to travel interstate with weapon also has qualifications you must meet before you are able to carry over state lines. I would never tell a member of LE that they can't carry in my stores, but at the same time it is the business owner's right to make this decision. I will avoid stores and places that don't want me carrying on duty if not in official capacity and will avoid them if I can't carry in my civi's of duty. Assuming you are off duty, but still in uniform such as stop at the store on the way home and the store owner has it posted no weapons and ask you to leave his store or to leave your weapon in the car and you refuse you are technically breaking the law as long as he has the legal right to tell so. No also every state has different laws so I am only speaking of the state of Tennessee. I don't want to look up your state laws, but I am pretty sure there are restrictions for LEO's on where they can't carry. No as far as lunch or piss break being official duty can vary from place to place. I will not comment on this. Also every place can have different definitions of what Official Capacity is and isn't. |
Not being obtuse at all. Where I worked, we had no such policy, and the only relevant State Statute was that if you stopped to render assistance, you were required to give aid until relieved by someone of equal or higher qualification. Now I had friends who worked on the Milwaukee PD, who were subject to a 24/7 requirement of sobriety and access to their weapon while they were in city limits. I have a friend who is a Federal investigative LEO, who is on duty unless he is on vacation, so I'm told. Hell, when I went through the academy we were told to NOT get involved in a LE matter off duty, but rather drop a dime. This certainly could have been because we were in the academy, but it's what we were told none the less. Acting as law enforcement off duty would have caused anyone problems. You called the guys on the clock. |