[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Free Lunch (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 7/13/2008 2:20:02 PM EDT
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I did a search and did not turn up a similar thread. I hope this is not a repeat... I haven't noticed until recently that it is fairly commonplace to see police officers eating for free at local restaurants while on duty. I've seen it happen at numerous fast food restaurants in different cities. I've even seen mall security guards do it in the food court. After doing some thinking on the subject, I have some observations and some questions: Observations: 1. At first glance it looks like soft bribery. The average citizen that witnesses a cop eating for free probably gets the impression that the establishment is "buying" protection from the on duty officer. Maybe they are just giving him free food to keep the police presence at a maximum around their shop in order to deter crime. Either way, it looks crooked. All restaurants and shops pay taxes, but the ones that feed the law enforcement for free get more protection... 2. Maybe the police department has an agreement with certain local establishments where the department pays the establishment in a sort of running tab to cover what the police eat. I doubt that this is the case because I have not observed the restaurant staff keeping any sort of record. 3. Maybe its just the restaurants showing their continual gratitude to those who have dedicated their lives to protecting and serving the community. Even if this is the case, it does not change the "image" of what is happening. Questions: 1. Which of these observations is true? If I didn't list it above, then what is your opinion of what's going on here? 2. Regardless of what is said about the reasons, the opinion of the taxpaying bystander is important. Do some departments put restrictions on officers eating for free? I'm not trying to instigate here so don't flame me too bad. I'm just a citizen trying to understand the activities of those I pay to protect my community. ETA: Spelling Corrections |
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Here it's a thank you as well. Many restaurants offer a discount, but none offer free food. It can be abused, however. For example, the local volunteer rescue squad had people continually going to the same restaurant (burger king) day after day and burger king got mad and pulled their discount. I don't pick where I'm eating that day based on any discounts. I always have enough $ to cover the full amount, and I never ask for a discount. If they choose to offer me one, that's fine, and I thank them. I've never gotten the impression that more is expected (extra patrols, preference), but rather it's their way of showing gratitude to public servants. Think of it along the lines of offering .mil food discounts. |
| Many dept's. have specific written policy in which free anything is addressed. Big time no-no and if caught, you can expect departmental charges. Call it bribery, preferential treatment, whatever, it is all the same and if your dept. has a policy on it, you better not get caught. A discount is one thing, free is a different ballgame. |
all it takes is 30 seconds of being in the right place and the right time. i understand where the poster is coming from but i think its nice that restaurants are giving free meals to cops, everyone knows they don't make enough $$ anyways. maybe its not fair for other restaurants but this is a free country, they can do what they like. maybe those other places should give free lunches as well! |
This is what I would assume to be in place. I just wonder how widespread policies like that are. It stuck out to me as an obvious ethics issue the first time I saw it. |
We had a guy who would throw on his uniform on his off days to go to the one place that offered us deep discounts so he could feed his family on the cheap. Needless to say we lost that one. I know of a few restaurants that offer deep discounts or free meals to PD basically for the deterrence factor of having an LEO on site. There hasn't been a perception problem (bribe) as long as the deal is applied to all officers equally. Most of the joints in town stopped giving the FD discounts years ago... hell, we still get charged full price by the rib place we kept from burning down a few years ago. |
Discounts I don't have a problem with. Its when I see an officer order food, sit down, eat it and leave... all without paying. |
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Sometimes I will purposefully avoid a place because of the discount or it being straight up free. It can put you in a very uncomfortable position. Usually I will tip the cost or sometimes more, which means I am paying more than everyone else. We have had people who put on their uniform to pick up pizzas.  It's easy to get acustom to discounts, but some people seriously take advantage of them. And yes, there are then those who will sit down, eat a meal at real resturaunt (i.e. not fast food) and then get and leave. It varies by department.Also, I work for a state agency which has a specific AO. We've had guys getting food in line with the neighboring PD and the proprietor says no discount for us after charging the other PD 50%. Or they look at our car/uniform and then charge full price. Coffee at most places is free. At a local coffee chain here it is policy that LE get free coffee as one of the founders was a retired PO. I guess I would say it varies how it is handled, but generally, alot of times it's more of a hassle than it is convienient. But like they said in the Academy, nothing is really free. |
You clearly have an ax to grind about this. |
Actually, I was trying to draw the distinction between free and discounted. I brought this to the LE forum to better understand the issue. From the posts so far, it looks like it is an ethics issue that many departments address. It appears that some officers struggle with the issue, some have no problem with it, and others abuse it. |
I suppose the biggest deciding factor would be if the order/eat/leave was done with the blessing and knowledge of the manager/owner as a "thank you", deterrent to hood rats by LEO presence or whatever, or was done by the cop without caring what the owner/manager thought or as an "expectation" by the officer. The former I don;t have a problem with, as long as it's not a quid pro quo for turning a blind eye to something. The latter? 
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| Here one of our hospitals provides us with free food b/c of an idea one of the nuns had a few years back. The other hospital does keep a tab that the PD pays for once a year, and it's technically "free" food for us. Restaurants sometimes give us discounts, but none give away food. I wouldn't take it if they did. I eat at the hospitals when the budget runs a bit low, but I try not to abuse it. |
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Per policy we can't accept free food (too many "perceptions" by busines owners and the public). Sometimes you get into a little go 'round with the server about the check and pay/nopay. If they refuse to charge, we tip the price of the meal. Fast food places sometimes offer 10%. Nothing consistent though and it doesn't bias my choices as most aren't open at 3-4 am when I'm hungry. In regards to ax grinding...It just goes to show that the public is watching very closely and forming opinions even if they don't know the full story. |
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No restaurants are free around here. A number of places do give a discount. There is one convenience chain, however, that fountain drinks and coffee is free. I have tried to pay on numerous occassions but they will not let me. One time there was a new guy at the counter as I tried to pay. The manager came hustling over say no, no, no, not him. I said thank you very much. I'd say a morning cup of coffee is a bit different than a full meal, though. |
You will see this in whatever field you are in. Some people play fair and some try to get anything they can for free. I don't think that accepting a discount/free food is dishonest or crooked if they offer it and nothing is expected for it(like extra patrols, ect). However, I do think that demanding or expecting a discount is. Theres a fine line between the two. In my area there are a lot of places that will give discounts to on duty public safety crews(police, fire, EMS) just as their way of saying "thank you". I never expect or ask for a discount, never bitch about it if they don't give one, and if they do give me one I usually leave a couple of dollars in the tip jar. I don't choose where I'm going to eat based on if they give a discount or not, I base it on what I'm in the mood for. I always thank them whether they give a discount or not, afterall they are the people cooking my food. Never piss off a person who handles your food. Stay safe... |
Unfortunately, most of our felons and dopers who are actually employed work in the restaurant industry. Drive thru is your friend! |
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I'm not LEO but I would like to share my take on this subject. Back in the late 80's I used to work at convenience stores at night as a secondary job. This particular store was on a major intersection in town. Leo's loved it because it was a perfect place in that zone to stop and use the restroom, get coffee, tea, fountain drinks, sandwiches, snacks, smokes, snuff, and the other usual stop n rob fare. Large, well lighted parking lot so many wrote reports, talked, and went on about their buisness. We as employees loved the Leo's as well. Talk about feeling safe. There was almost always a Police presence at our store and we appreciated it. Like I said, the store was in a very good location for the Police. That's why they used our place as a hang out. We felt we owed them something and, with the exception of smokes and snuff, everything was on the house. I was told by my supervisors that coffee, tea, and fountain drinks were free but they had to pay for everything else, but none of us went along with that crap. Most guys wanted to pay for ANYTHING other than drinks, but we insisted. I see no problem whatsoever with what we did. WE wanted to do this and not 1 officer EVER went to our store, grabbed a drink or food and walked out. NOT ONCE. They always went to the counter with cash in hand. |
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First of all, for the situation described, that didn't happen in military police. People ate out of the mess hall, plain and simple. Those on com rats, where one gets money if their schedule doesn't allow them to eat in the mess hall, well, whether police or not, they had to use those wisely. Someone living on the fast food mentality for meals could go thru $90 of comrats before the month was out. There were officers to teach them how to budget, me being one of them. We would get extra rations of coffee from the mess hall for the Station House. If anyone was getting breaks on food outside the normal system, it probably wasn't on the good side. While in the Navy one might use coffee or other food substance for bartering or "greasing the skids" between units, that would be something that would be more or less recognized, more or less approved. But accepting constant meals, free or discount, outside the system would be neither. Essentially, when one starts showing favoritism, starts accepting favors from another, it is running the potential to turn into a disaster very quickly for a number of reasons. First of all, there are people out there who don't like cops, who want to bring them down. It is rather unwise to give them situation which they might twist to show a bad side of the police, regardless of the honesty of both parties involved. Secondly, what happens if there is something at the restaurant which requires action but because of the favoritism, one is tempted to look the other way? At best, it is a loss of creditbilty which may sink the officer and it could even be a court charge? Third, how does one appear to other units, if they are getting the discount but not the other unit? Fourth, one is setting up a pattern and if one wants to poison an officer, they know where to go. My biggest problem in this area of military police would be the officer's loss of creditibility and abuse of such a "privlidge" which then could show badly on the Navy. About the mall security guards. Understand that they may not be police and there might be some kind of agreement inside the mall with the eating establishments. On a similar note, when I did shore patrol, I do believe the enlisted club provided me with a soda while I was there. I don't rightly remember in "McDonald's" did when my posting placed me there. If not, I would say, different establishments, different systems, different views to the outward world. _______________________________________________________________ (Nick thinks he has converted to eating normal food but it turns him into something of an addict. "Cops come in here and they think they can eat off my plate."--Heavy watching Nick eat his lunch, (w,stte), "Forever Knight") |
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My old dept didnt have policy on this but occasionally the place we ate frequently would give us a free meal we never asked for and certainly didnt expect it. They did the same for others as well ambulance and etc. We would usually tip the amount of the meal and move on. There is only so long you can sit and argue with the owner it just starts to look bad. I really dont see an ethical problem as long as you dont expect or it is a bribery thing. |
Actually, I don't care what the "opinion of the taxpaying bystander" is. If a business chooses to give me a discount, I won't argue....but I always try to pay full price. Some places won't let me pay full price. And reference the part in blue, I think you are trying to stir up crap. I pay taxes too so don't try play that game. |
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Okay, couple of questions for the OP if this is a legit question and not just trolling or something personal. You sit down, you have 30 minutes to eat, or 2 15minute breaks for your 10 hour shift. You finish eating in a fast manner, bc by the time for food gets there you have about 10 minutes left on your break. Now the wait person comes up and gives you a discounted meal or says it's on the house. Now what? What as a Tax payer, bc cops don't pay taxes too, would you like the cop to do? Should the cops throw them in cuffs and force them to accept full price? I consider ethics every day in my job. Every day my ethics are questioned by people who have no clue what my job is. You write tickets for revenue, you are always looking to make arrest to make yourself look good, you don't think traffic laws apply to you, you steal and strong arm local businesses for free food that tax payers have to pay for, you won't let me do whatever the hell I want to do unchecked, etc.. And that's fine, people will question, that is our nature. So, being an ethical tax payer, what can the officer do about his own behavior in the food question? Obviously the officer cannot change the fact that people either do offer hp (hp = half price for all those tax payers), don't offer hp or just give meals for free. I guess the officer should just sit in his car and eat a cold sandwich everyday and hope that he doesn't get flagged down so he can have a 30 minute break for his 10 hours shift? (just for the record, every cop on my shift gets to work 1 hour early to load gear, check the car, look at the calls holding, do paperwork and prepare so we can hit the street as soon as the clock rolls around and we start getting paid. That is an hour of work we don't ever get paid for. 1 full hour so we can be on the street immediately for you, the tax payer. Is that ethical, technically, that is working for free, just like the food places) I can't speak for everyone, but it is a rare occasion where my shift is only 10 hours and I don't end up coming in late. Second, let me ask you, the high road tax payer, what should have been done in this situation. Myself and another officer met and took lunch. We waited until there were 3 shifts out working so no one would be short handed. We sat down and ate. While at the restaurant we knew charged full price, no ethical issues, we had a local preacher that we had visited with on Sundays when it was slow, approach us ask to sit down, and talked with us about one of his church's members who was feeling suicidal. He wanted to know what we as officers might be able to do to help. We talked with him about the services our city offered, I went and got him a packet with phone numbers and groups that offered help and then he thanked us and left. When time came to pay up, the waitress said the preacher already paid our meal. We both left good tips, but now what? Again, we got a free meal? Is that unethical? For all the ethical superstars, all I can say is, we are always hiring, please sign up, we are always short handed. |
There was a trooper in NYS who almost died from being poisened at a Burger King a few years ago. I'm sure it wasn't the first time. |
First you say one thing, then you say another. Why do you watch that may LEO's in that many different cities eat their meals? How do you know that the mall sec. guards don't get a free/comp meal as part of their job? Maybe the cop's sis/bro/mom/dad/uncle/aunt/high school buddy/etc. owns the restaraunt. Maybe, Maybe, Maybe. Until you know the specifics of each case, it sounds like a scorned taxpayer is upset at "The Man." Maybe I'm just wrong though. 
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This is my policy. When I go anyplace I am fully prepared to pay in full plus tip for whatever I order. IF I recive any sort of discount I FIRST thank the server and/ or manager and then SECOND whatever I recieved as a discount gets added to the tip. Everybody wins. 
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I always have enough cash on hand to cover the full price of the meal. However, if someone wants to offer a discounted meal or a free soda, I'm not gonna sit there and go back and forth about it. Say thank you very much and walk out the door. I used to be a mechanic for an airline here. Everyday when I ate lunch there would be someone from the .mil in line as well. I always paid for their meal. I wasn't buying extra protection, just saying thank you. |
I had a foot post that was in an area that had lots of resturaunts. I madea point of visiting each one on a regular basis. I ate in most of them (I was not into candied yaks' feet) and some charged me full price, some gave a discount and one place would not take my money. I always tipped according to the regular price and sometimes the tip went up if I got a discount. I also had a place that had a set up for the employees and a restricted menu for them. I liked talking to these guys and would do so over lunch. I got the employee discount. Was it wrong?I don't think so, as I tried not to limit were I patrolled. Everyplace got the same service from me (Even Omar's house of Yak) 
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Well said. I have worked countless hours of time that the city never paid me for. I have actually lost count.....and that doesn't include any time that an officer calls me when I'm off duty to ask for advise/help. I have hundreds of hours of time worked that has never been paid to me and NEVER WILL be paid to me. If I am given a free meal by someone, I'll accept it. I don't ask for it, and I certainly ALWAYS try to pay. But I don't feel guilty if I pay a reduced price or nothing at all at a given meal. I also don't take advantage of people's generosity. To the OP, if you have nothing better to do than to worry about a cop getting a free meal, then become a cop and tell us how it should be done. |
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Most of the restaurants around here give us some sort of discount. It's pointless trying to pay full price because it will just cause a bigger scene and draw more attention to the discount (speaking from experience) I'm always ready to pay full price and just say thank-you if I get a discount. |
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My department doesn't allow officers to accept discounts, much less free meals. I support that policy and would discipline any of my subordinates who accepted such a discount, if I found out about it. YMMV, and different locations = different rules. But "not allowed to pay" is a bullshit excuse. If I wasn't allowed to pay, I'd leave the money anyway and not come back. But everytime I explained I had to pay by policy, it wasn't a problem. Flame suit on. YMMV and different locations & cultures = different rules. |
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Wow. I'm at work one day and a friendly honest discussion turns into a troll hunt? Thin skin around here. I had to re-read my own posts to see where I was so combative... couldn't find it. I didn't want to offend anyone. My sincerest apology if I did. I identify with your plight as an underpaid, overworked public servant in harms way but I'm afraid that the angry rant about 12 hour days and police being taxpayers too have fallen on the un-impressed ears of an infantryman. (not to put myself above you, I believe we are in an equally difficult, dangerous, underpaid profession). I do have plenty of other things to think about but this one has been on my mind for a couple of weeks and I knew I could come here for honest input (kinda the purpose of a discussion forum, right?). Thank you for giving me that. FWIW, I was satisfied about 2/3 of the way down on page 1. I'll sum it up again: Obviously it is a real ethics issue if departments have policies against this kind of behavior. And for those who don't care what the un-informed observer thinks: I think that it is just as much my business what you do (or what I perceive you to do) on duty as it is your business what I do (or what others perceive me to do) while overseas. In both cases it is every taxpayer's business. |
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A few years ago a local city made a policy where officer could not accept free food from any business. The local owners went crazy, addressed city councel and demanded the policy be recended. They made it clear they would give anyone they wished free food anytime they wished and the city would not control how they did their business. It was made clear to the councel that if the policy was not recended the upcoming election would not go well for them. The policy was recended that night. It's good to have a strong union and having the public love you.
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My dept doesn't care. If it's a fast food place & they give a discount then we have to sign the receipt for them. They get to use it as a TAX DEDUCTIBLE.....If it's a sit down restaurant then we give the server a big tip. Do people abuse this yep. I'm amazed that folks have a problem w/ public safety people getting a free meal or discount but think nothing about people who get free food, housing, schooling, clothing, etc from the government & they don't even have a job!!!! Just my opinion. |
Ok. So now that you have gotten some responses.....what's your opinion on the whole situation? I think I know based on your response but I don't want to misunderstand. |
After reading everyones responses I believe that the great majority of free meals given to police officers are from well intentioned store owners. I also think that the majority of police officers refuse the full discount and try to pay/tip the full amount. The LEO members here have painted the picture of grateful establishment owners/workers and honest cops who try their best not to cross any ethical lines. I buy it. I also read responses here of people who don't see this as an ethical problem at all and almost seem to think that they are entitled to free food because they work very hard. This combined with the few cases that I have seen make me angry, but I guess you always have that 10% of people who just don't get it or are generally douche bags. I don't, however, hold anything against the LE community but rather identify with them as I also have similar ethical issues that are put before me. And yes, soldiers also have at least a 10% douche bag ratio. So, thanks for your input. I appreciate your comments. |
So....what you are saying is that any officer who accepts any form of gratuity is automatically wrong?? |
As you said, some establishments would like to see officers in their establishments, especially in the evening and overnight hours. Presence of officers to discourage problems, in the businesses mind. The only time I've heard of an agency running a food tab is during major operations that go on for days. The guys need to be fed during the operations, obviously. Most agencies forbid to one degree or another their officers taking free or discounted food or drinks. Most officers I know will go to extremes to avoid being seen as accepting free food. Usually if the clerk refuses payment, the officer will leave a tip of equal value. I only know of one local place that gives officers a partial break on the food price, but I wont eat there due to the number of ex-cons they employ. Edit: OP: I know of many, many places that would gladly give you, the American Soldier, a discount. Would you turn down those offers? After all, I know a lot of .mil types who don't make much money and would be happy to stretch out their paychecks..... |
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10% douch rate I can buy. I am proud of my dept and my dept's officers, but yeah, I can see that about a realistic rate. Just like anyone else, there are people I love working with and their are people who I tolerate working with bc there is not another option. I can tell you the majority of people I operate with do the "leave the difference" on the HP meal. So the people who benefit from this are the wait staff. I just finished my shift this week and I took 1 - 30 minute lunch break all week. I ate Outback that day because I wanted to buy another officer lunch for helping me out on a fubar call. I paid full price, no one pissed about not getting HP and next week when I get it at the HOP, I will say thank you and the HS kid working my table will get a good tip. Are there asshats who abuse or feel entitled. YES, there are everywhere. It just sucks that in LE, one guy does some dumb shit and the rest of us who bust ass get to explain ourselves to people who feel like LE owes them. I work for my money, I work hard and I don't owe anyone but my friends and family for what I have. I think we are all a little tired of being called upon like we are some kind of leech to regular businesses and the taxpayers. I think a lot of us get tired of being treated poorly at work, coming home and trying to do something we enjoy (arf.com) and having people you would expect to be supportive calling us out constantly or throwing us under the bus for some clown's action on the other side of the country. If you honestly don't feel like your posts had any charged statements or color to them, good on you. I don't think a lot of us read how you meant to write this thread though. You are a soldier, you are obviously civic minded. I am not military, but I can tell you I got out every day and soldier for my city and it ain't for the $ or the HP. |
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with all the discounts and Free i see soldiers/Marines taking and being offered around the US since a certain date, i think the OP has a lot of nerve to come to BOTS and make statements about how it is his business as a taxpayer to monitor these activities of LE. the OP needs to recognize/answer (for his side of the fence - .mil) to the Federal taxpaying members here in BOTS on the 'discounts and Free' issue ...although none here probably care because we understand the moral and ethical questions involved, as well as the accepted/prohibited practices in our respective AO's. |