Posted: 1/27/2008 5:52:10 PM EDT
| After my training this week we had a worked with some SWAT guys and they said one thing we should buy is a weapon (Pistol) mounted flashlight! I have never used one on a pistol so I'd like to hear what you guys think about them! Give me the pros and cons . I'd also like to know what weapon mounted flashlight system is a good one to buy and is there a level III holster that would fit the pistol and flashlight or should I just go for the duty belt hoslter for the flashlight? |
Thanks for the info on that I'll take a look! We had building clearing this week and if it was dark we had to use a big flashlights I'm looking for something as more of a back up or main use for doing such things. |
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If you're going to run a weapon mounted light, get a holster to hold it while it's on the pistol. It doesn't do any good if you've got to draw, attach your light, then unattach it to holster and go hands on when you make the arrest. I have a G22 with MX3 in a Safariland 6004. ETA - I also have a Surefire Z2 Combatlight on my belt for searching, and other tasks. |
I have the Safariland ALS holster and it works well. I think everybody needs a weaponlight. My X300 adds hardly any noticeable weight. I can't think of any cons to a weapon mounted light. Many of the opponents of weaponlights seem to forget that the light does not have to be illuminated at all times. You can still use a handheld light with a weaponlight  (surprise, surprise...). Also, generally if my weapon is out, there ususally is a good reaon and I want my gun pointed at whatever I'm looking at (building searches, felony stops, etc.). Example: Had susps at goinpoint in a car. I was able to keep my weapon pointed at the susps w/ them illuminated AND keep a hand free to key the radio or do whatever.A weaponlight will also allow you to shoot with a two-handed grip as opposed to a weaker and less-stable, flashlight combo technique. |
bingo, bango, boffo. we have a winner of an explanation. thank you.! |
FYI, Insight does not make the TLR series, Streamlight does. |
Our dept. will not allow patrol officers to use weapon mounted lights. TAC and specialty units only. I'm sure they have a liabilty reason as usual.  Edit: To answer your question IMO X200B is a great light (well worth the money). Get a holster for weapon mounted lights and leave it on the weapon. Taking on and off will only wear on the mount and you have a risk of cranking a round off while taking it on and off (I'm positive this has been done by an officer already in the US). Why some people dont read manuals is beyond me. Its to be mounted with the pistol unloaded not when its loaded and your in a gun fight. And of course, train, train, train with it. Some people like pressure switches some dont. As far as giving your self away while room clearing/searching; take a class and you will see the advantages and disadvantes. |
Yeah thats what I was thinking. I've no experience with Streamlight. I buy surefire because everything I have ever bought from them was durable and reliable. |
I own plenty of surefire lights (probably 10 or more, including weaponlights). I also have a number of streamlight products, probably 6-8. The durability is the same. You won't be disappointed by anything Streamlight makes. Their product line isn't quite as "tactical" as surefire, but it's just as handy. |
I agree with you but there are some downsides. One is the 6004 holster. A few years ago in Salt Lake City an officer had this holster for his Glock and M3 light. During a domestic violence call he and another officer got in to a fight with the arrestee. The arrestee was able to stick hit finger in the gap around the trigger and pull the trigger while the gun was in the holster. As a result of this my department no longer allowed any officer with this holster to continue to carry it. Now there are so new holsters out there but Im not sure if they have this problem. Second, and I know this was corrected. When the weapon lights first started coming out we all ran out an go one. The Glocks started to have malfunctions at the range and Glock found out that the added weight to the weapon from lights changed the recoil operation of the gun this was corrected by changing the springs in the mags and finally glock came out with the #6 follower and spring that corrected this problem, so make sure you gun functions properly with the light before street carry. As far as tactically there are no disadvantages as you said. |
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Well if you decide to get a weaponlight, my vote goes to the Surefire X300. I had a X200B before my current X300 on my P226. I finally got around to get some quick photos of the X300 vs. X200B. The X300 actually has brighter spill, but the hotspot is also so much brighter, there is much more contrast between the hotspot and spill. This makes it appear that the spill is less than the X200B.   X300 on left, X200B on right   |
I agree. I don't see how anyone who has done some traiing with weapons mounted lights would not want one. We have had them on our long guns since 1988 (huge Sage lights at the time that looked like rocket launchers), and we started getting them on our pistols as soon as the M-3's started coming out (most guys have upgraded, but I like my M-3). I got in a situation this week where I had to clear a darkened house, looking for a murder suspect, and found out my M-3 had dead batteries. I still had my other flashlight, of course, but it made me remember how hard it was to do before I had the M-3. |
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Sorry about the novel but we in LE really need to get out of the stone age. I let this thread go a bit before I put in my two pennies and stirred up the pot. I will first say that I use weapon mounted lights. However, there are tactical disadvantages to weapon mounted light systems and ignoring that fact or being in denial of that fact is not a good thing. No matter what I teach, I will explain the bad or downside and not just the advantage. Weapon mounted light systems generally force people to violate gun rule #2 which is not to let your muzzle cross anything you don't intend to destroy or also known as the laser rule. Weapon mounted lights generally tend to force people to muzzle search which invariably violates this golden rule which can lead to some very bad juju. Add in the variable of a reduced light environment, which causes a condition called "Reduced light anxiety" and then you often see people not only violating rule #2, but also violating rule #3, finger on the trigger. People who are suffering from "reduced light anxiety" tend to start putting their finger on the trigger to assure themselves that the trigger is still there or that it gives them the added advantage of being quicker on the trigger. This "reduced light anxiety" causing the finger to go on the trigger violates rule #3, Keep you finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire. Which means you have properly identified your target and deemed it to be an appropriate threat. This is also bad juju. Now, keeping "reduced light anxiety" in mind, this condition is also a large contributing factor to what is called "flinch fire", or what I like to call stupidity or the technical term of negligent discharge of the firearm. So a weapon mounted light contributes to breaking rule #2 laser rule and the reduced light situation which causes many to break rule #3, finger on the trigger and add also add flinch fire into the mix = very bad juju. If you use a weapon mounted light, you should be searching with the light on the fringes of the light source and not directly in the center. This will allow you to search without muzzling people. Also many of the newer higher power lights can wash out a target at close range, reflecting light back into our own eyes, which will harm our own natural night vision. This might hurt our ability for proper identification of a threat. If you are in patrol searching with perhaps only 1 partner than perhaps intermittant illumination might be best. However for tactical teams doing a dynamic entry, generally its lights on from time of entry. Speed and violence of action generally outweigh the possible negatives of the light source giving away position. Even though I have been around for a long time, I go against the flow of the "old school" mentality still harbored and taught within the tactical community. Especially those parts of the tactical community where the instructors teach antiquated techniques and don't get out and see what is new and what works. Almost the entire modern teaching world sees the disadvantage to muzzle searching or a sweep search with the arms mostly extended to near full lock. In essence having your weapon always pointed and on target with what your eyes are seeing. I have less of an issue with the "third eye" technique but I prefer a modified, high ready, semi tuck, where I try to keep the muzzle as neutrally centered on my sternum as possible. With the muzzle search technique, unfortunately your eyes move, react and see peripherally much faster and your brain percieves and interprets this information almost instantly. Because of the way the eye takes in visual input, always pointing your gun where your eyes are looking is next to impossible and almost an exercise in futility. Since the eye moves so quickly and the fact that a great amount of information is generally percieved from the peripheral vision, you eye almost instantly moves to the threat you are not really keeping alignment with the front sights. By the time your brain tells your hands to "sweep" onto target, you accuracy level goes into the toilet and first shot misses are not uncommon due to "momentum" of the arms and gun. We should be infact punching the weapon with a flat muzzle alignment onto the target and not sweeping if at all possible. If we have to sweep to engage a secondary or multiple targets than we should move our eyes independently from the muzzle, identify the threat and then bring the muzzle on target and acquire a proper sight picture, at close ranges flash front sight picture is good to go, and then make the shot if necessary. Moving the eyes independent of the muzzle you will help to avoid the "momentum miss" of the arms sweeping but perhaps more importantly you will already be able to perceive if it is actually a hostile threat before the muzzle actaully acquires the target. Accuracy increases greatly by using this tecnique. Practical or competetive championship shooters prove the downfall of sweeping onto a target without moving the eyes first all the time. We need to put down our pride and perhaps take a lesson from the civilian or modern firearm teaching world. Of course in the lag time between our brain determining the threat and the actual amount of time it takes us to move our weapon on target, we should also be having some type of lateral movement if possible. As far as a light goes, you generally get what you pay for. Look for not just candelas or candle power but also look for lumen output. It is hard to teach old dogs a new trick, especially if they are in the LE community. I know because I am one of them old dogs and I don't take to new stuff that well. I do everything I can to prove something wrong before I accept that it may work or have benefits. But as a cop and an instructor I owe it to myself and to those I teach, that the information presented be as accurate, up to date, tested and useful as it can be. I do know that there will be criticism but I just ask for an open mind and to not take anything as gospel, but rather test new ideas properly in the manner in which they are intended and give them a fair and honest evaluation on your own. |