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Posted: 3/23/2006 8:43:08 PM EDT
Looking for a good smaller sized .45 as a backup. my On duty gun is a Sig P220. Any recommendations?
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 10:36:00 PM EDT
The Kahr P45 or GLOCK 36 are both great pistols and relatively small as .45's go.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 1:15:56 AM EDT
+1 for the Glock.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 1:54:39 AM EDT
Other calibers..........


what do ya'll guys carry as an extra gun? Please post pictures aswell. liven up this thread a little
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 3:56:20 AM EDT
I was thinking the same thing you are. Getting a back up / off duty compact gun.

I am interesting in pics and suggestions as well.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 5:58:54 AM EDT
I really like my Kahr PM40.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 8:08:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Citabria7GCBC:
Looking for a good smaller sized .45 as a backup. my On duty gun is a Sig P220. Any recommendations?



Maybe a P245? Its smaller than a P220 and can take the same mags, but its really not a "backup" sized gun (i.e. ankle or vest carry).

I know you said .45, but I like my G27 for ankle carry. Its light enough to carry, but it still packs a decent punch.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 8:35:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mdb212:

Originally Posted By Citabria7GCBC:
Looking for a good smaller sized .45 as a backup. my On duty gun is a Sig P220. Any recommendations?



Maybe a P245? Its smaller than a P220 and can take the same mags, but its really not a "backup" sized gun (i.e. ankle or vest carry).

I know you said .45, but I like my G27 for ankle carry. Its light enough to carry, but it still packs a decent punch.



Plus one on the G27, or even a Seecamp for a really small pocket gun. As for a .45 cal backup gun, I really like my AMT "Backup". Six "full power shots" of .45 in a small package, no manual safety's except for the 900 lb. DAO trigger (actually I think its around 20 lbs, but damn, it's a heavy trigger). Just my .02
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 8:51:48 AM EDT
I carry a S&W M60 with a bobbed hammer. I recommend it as well as the 642. I carry it in my weak hand front pocket and it is easily accessible and no one ever knows it's there. I've tried the compact 45 thing since I too carry a P220 on duty but none of the compact pistols fit the bill. Out of all the 45s I like the G36 the best since it is thinner than the others but still too big to carry concealed, comfortably and easily accessible. While carry on a vest is easily concealed it's not comfortable or easily accessible. I'm not a big fan of ankle carry either but if you can get a G36 to work for you, go for it.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 9:02:09 AM EDT
Perhaps a smaller Sig backup? To ease the transition. The P225 is a sweet little gun. The P245 is one I have no experience with, but its the same caliber and apparently takes P220 mags, which is a good idea.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 6:28:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Perhaps a smaller Sig backup? To ease the transition. The P225 is a sweet little gun. The P245 is one I have no experience with, but its the same caliber and apparently takes P220 mags, which is a good idea.



The Sig P239 in .357Sig is a good choice. Not the smallest, but thin enough for ankle/vest/iwb carry. Of course I'm restricted to Sigs, or else I'd be looking real hard at a glock BUG.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 8:24:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Perhaps a smaller Sig backup? To ease the transition. The P225 is a sweet little gun. The P245 is one I have no experience with, but its the same caliber and apparently takes P220 mags, which is a good idea.



I carry a Glock 21 as my duty gun, so I have a Glock 30 as a backup. They feed from the same magazines, and that's important to me. I wear my 30 on the left side of my vest. With a zipper-front shirt, I can draw it pretty fast.

Since you carry a Sig 220, I'd strongly recommend a 245 if it does, indeed, feed from 220 mags. Wear it on the vest, or on an ankle.

Remember, if this is for wearing as a second gun while in uniform, conealing it isn't a big deal. Who cares if it shows a little when you walk, or bulges your uniform shirt conspicuously. The point is that you have a second gun with you in case the first is taken from you in a fight, or is lost in a chase/scuffle.

I believe strongly in ammo/magazine compatibility. Nothing would suck more than having two full magazines of .357sig in your mag pouches, when the only gun you've got left is a .357mag snubbie!
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 8:26:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Perhaps a smaller Sig backup? To ease the transition. The P225 is a sweet little gun. The P245 is one I have no experience with, but its the same caliber and apparently takes P220 mags, which is a good idea.



I am considering this as a soluiton. .45 may not be the way to go for a backup. I was thinking it was at first, but i am not considering another caliber. thanks for the input
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 10:06:20 PM EDT
Glock 26. Lots of bullets, and fits neatly in the palm of your hand.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 9:10:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jwise:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Perhaps a smaller Sig backup? To ease the transition. The P225 is a sweet little gun. The P245 is one I have no experience with, but its the same caliber and apparently takes P220 mags, which is a good idea.



I carry a Glock 21 as my duty gun, so I have a Glock 30 as a backup. They feed from the same magazines, and that's important to me. I wear my 30 on the left side of my vest. With a zipper-front shirt, I can draw it pretty fast.

Since you carry a Sig 220, I'd strongly recommend a 245 if it does, indeed, feed from 220 mags. Wear it on the vest, or on an ankle.

Remember, if this is for wearing as a second gun while in uniform, conealing it isn't a big deal. Who cares if it shows a little when you walk, or bulges your uniform shirt conspicuously. The point is that you have a second gun with you in case the first is taken from you in a fight, or is lost in a chase/scuffle.

I believe strongly in ammo/magazine compatibility. Nothing would suck more than having two full magazines of .357sig in your mag pouches, when the only gun you've got left is a .357mag snubbie!



Thats exactly why I am going to get a G27. I carry a G22 on duty, so I'd like my backup to take the same magazines.

I do have a 30 but I think the 27 would be better so I could keep it on my ankle.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 5:49:46 AM EDT
If you are serious about the need for a backup gun, I would strongly recommend that you consider the advice given by both Combat_Jack and goloud. I would consider these points, in order of importance...

- Any backup gun is better than no backup gun (If all you can afford is a Jennings, use that until you can afford better)
- It has to be small enough that you will ALWAYS wear it (too big and it will become cumbersome and you'll find excuses to leave it at home)
- The backup should operate the same as the primary (buttons, levers, and dodads all in the same place)
- Ammunition and/or magazine compatibility is nice but not necessary

I carry a .40 cal P226R/X200 as my primary sidearm. My backup and off-duty gun is a P239 in .357 sig. I like this combination. If you like your P220, you will like the P239.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 11:20:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Garage-Logician:
If you are serious about the need for a backup gun, I would strongly recommend that you consider the advice given by both Combat_Jack and goloud. I would consider these points, in order of importance...

- Any backup gun is better than no backup gun (If all you can afford is a Jennings, use that until you can afford better)
- It has to be small enough that you will ALWAYS wear it (too big and it will become cumbersome and you'll find excuses to leave it at home)
- The backup should operate the same as the primary (buttons, levers, and dodads all in the same place)
- Ammunition and/or magazine compatibility is nice but not necessary

I carry a .40 cal P226R/X200 as my primary sidearm. My backup and off-duty gun is a P239 in .357 sig. I like this combination. If you like your P220, you will like the P239.



Very good advice. I could have gone with a P232 as a backup, but the P239 operates exactly the same as my primary P229. If something breaks bad enough to use your BUG, you'll want your body to know how to use it.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 4:48:34 AM EDT
I carry a NAA Guardian in .32acp as my backup and off duty handgun. It isn't perfect, but for me it is a reasonable balance between concealment, power, cost, and relialility. (IMBO, Seecamp is very close, with Beretta Tomcat a bit behind and Kel-Tec further behind).

A snub-nose DA revolver will likely be the most reliable option, but they are a little larger than the above options.

An NAA mini-revolver in .22mag is good for deep concealment IF your department allows them (mine doesn't).

I'd agree with some of the previous comments that having a BUG you will carry almost all the time is more important than ammo compatability with your duty firearm.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 5:39:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 5:42:24 AM EDT by highdraglowspeed]
Personally Glock 22 and a 27 BUG I also carry a 23 off duty occasionally but mostly the 27 off duty.

Logic: Same manual of arms. Familiarity is very important. If the proverbial SHTF and you have to get busy your training will kick in. Example. I had to holster up and draw a taser. I got the taser out and went to deploy it and pulled the trigger. Nothing happened. It then registered that I needed to flip the switch. I did and things worked out.

Imagine having to use your backup gun and then having a different method of operation. Same caliber and interchangeable mags are a big + IMHO.

I always carry a spare Glock 23 mag off duty. Thats if I carry the 23 or the 27.

I guess that I could sum it all up as K I S S.

BTW Congrats on your graduation.

As others have said at very least have a backup.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:07:35 PM EDT
Just some toys to think about

Glock 27 with Glock 27 mag +1 grip, Glock 23 Mag with grip and Glock 22 mag.
http://www.hunt101.com/img/390358.jpg

S&W 642 with laser grip and a 640 in .38 SPL.
http://www.hunt101.com/img/390356.jpg
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:13:36 PM EDT
+1 for glock
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:34:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By goloud:

Originally Posted By Garage-Logician:
If you are serious about the need for a backup gun, I would strongly recommend that you consider the advice given by both Combat_Jack and goloud. I would consider these points, in order of importance...

- Any backup gun is better than no backup gun (If all you can afford is a Jennings, use that until you can afford better)
- It has to be small enough that you will ALWAYS wear it (too big and it will become cumbersome and you'll find excuses to leave it at home)
- The backup should operate the same as the primary (buttons, levers, and dodads all in the same place)
- Ammunition and/or magazine compatibility is nice but not necessary

I carry a .40 cal P226R/X200 as my primary sidearm. My backup and off-duty gun is a P239 in .357 sig. I like this combination. If you like your P220, you will like the P239.



Very good advice. I could have gone with a P232 as a backup, but the P239 operates exactly the same as my primary P229. If something breaks bad enough to use your BUG, you'll want your body to know how to use it.




I took a look at the P232 and P239. I am leaning toward the P239 because it operates fairly close to a P220. I already ruled out the P232 because of the Mag release. The mag release is under the grip behind the mag. I prefer the button on the side of the weapon.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:01:30 AM EDT
The 642 on the top left can be carried all day in comfort because it so light.. It is about the same weight as one Glock magazine.

http://www.hunt101.com/img/390357.jpg
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:05:26 AM EDT
BTW, Kahr is making a .45 now. I don't know anything about it, just that they are advertising it and presumably currently producing it.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:05:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 7:10:29 PM EDT by goloud]

Originally Posted By Citabria7GCBC:

Originally Posted By goloud:

Originally Posted By Garage-Logician:
If you are serious about the need for a backup gun, I would strongly recommend that you consider the advice given by both Combat_Jack and goloud. I would consider these points, in order of importance...

- Any backup gun is better than no backup gun (If all you can afford is a Jennings, use that until you can afford better)
- It has to be small enough that you will ALWAYS wear it (too big and it will become cumbersome and you'll find excuses to leave it at home)
- The backup should operate the same as the primary (buttons, levers, and dodads all in the same place)
- Ammunition and/or magazine compatibility is nice but not necessary

I carry a .40 cal P226R/X200 as my primary sidearm. My backup and off-duty gun is a P239 in .357 sig. I like this combination. If you like your P220, you will like the P239.



Very good advice. I could have gone with a P232 as a backup, but the P239 operates exactly the same as my primary P229. If something breaks bad enough to use your BUG, you'll want your body to know how to use it.




I took a look at the P232 and P239. I am leaning toward the P239 because it operates fairly close to a P220. I already ruled out the P232 because of the Mag release. The mag release is under the grip behind the mag. I prefer the button on the side of the weapon.



Same reason I went with the 239. That and the 232 packs no punch.

Don't forget, if you are full time Federal/Military, Sig offers some great pricing. I can dig up the forms and sample letter if anyone is interested. Delivered right to your agency from the factory.

Edit: Federal or Military pricing.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 6:05:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By goloud:

Originally Posted By Citabria7GCBC:

Originally Posted By goloud:

Originally Posted By Garage-Logician:
If you are serious about the need for a backup gun, I would strongly recommend that you consider the advice given by both Combat_Jack and goloud. I would consider these points, in order of importance...

- Any backup gun is better than no backup gun (If all you can afford is a Jennings, use that until you can afford better)
- It has to be small enough that you will ALWAYS wear it (too big and it will become cumbersome and you'll find excuses to leave it at home)
- The backup should operate the same as the primary (buttons, levers, and dodads all in the same place)
- Ammunition and/or magazine compatibility is nice but not necessary

I carry a .40 cal P226R/X200 as my primary sidearm. My backup and off-duty gun is a P239 in .357 sig. I like this combination. If you like your P220, you will like the P239.



Very good advice. I could have gone with a P232 as a backup, but the P239 operates exactly the same as my primary P229. If something breaks bad enough to use your BUG, you'll want your body to know how to use it.




I took a look at the P232 and P239. I am leaning toward the P239 because it operates fairly close to a P220. I already ruled out the P232 because of the Mag release. The mag release is under the grip behind the mag. I prefer the button on the side of the weapon.



Same reason I went with the 239. That and the 232 packs no punch.

Don't forget, if you are full time Federal/Military, Sig offers some great pricing. I can dig up the forms and sample letter if anyone is interested. Delivered right to your agency from the factory.

Edit: Federal or Military pricing.



County LEO. But thanks anyway. Now to choose between 9mm .375 or 40 cal.

Leaning twd 9mm or 40cal. mostly toward 9mm. what do ya'll think?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:21:08 PM EDT
My .02

I carry a .357 S&W five shot. I used to carry a G27 on my vest. I switched after considering what confrontations I would find myself in needing to go to a back-up gun.

A fellow officer found himself in a struggle with a suspect where the suspect was going for a gun he had in his waistband. Officer trapped the suspects gun hand with his own gun hand. Hindsight being 20-20, not good, but that is the way it played out. Anyway, he said he couldn't get to his back-up, otherwise he said his intention was to stick his back-up into the guys chest and fire away. He carried a semi-auto backup. (another officer ended up breaking the wooden stock of a Remington 870 across the guys chest to end that conflict) Another officer years ago had her gun taken from her and the suspect shoved it into ther chest and pulled the trigger. Fortuneatly, the gun was taken out of battery by the shoving and it failed to fire. I put those two incidents together and determined I wanted something that was going to fire under any circumstances. If I ever had to go to a back-up gun and turn it into a primary weapon, the circumstances are probably that I have time to create distance and wait for the cavalry. I use my back up as my "Oh shit" gun. It's small, limiting its range, just like a mini-glock or any other. I know, there are those out there who can shoot 3 inch groups at 25 yards with one, but under stress of fire and combat, I'd like to see that.

Like I said, just my reasons, offering another point to think of. Do what feels right for you.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 4:48:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 79shark:
My .02

I know, there are those out there who can shoot 3 inch groups at 25 yards with one, but under stress of fire and combat, I'd like to see that.

Like I said, just my reasons, offering another point to think of. Do what feels right for you.



I read recently that some people who are expert shots in shooting competitions shoot somthing like 20% accurracy or less when in a stressful combat situation.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:23:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Citabria7GCBC:

Originally Posted By 79shark:
My .02

I know, there are those out there who can shoot 3 inch groups at 25 yards with one, but under stress of fire and combat, I'd like to see that.

Like I said, just my reasons, offering another point to think of. Do what feels right for you.



I read recently that some people who are expert shots in shooting competitions shoot somthing like 20% accurracy or less when in a stressful combat situation.



That's good. Read Grossman's book "On Combat". It seems as though many don't even fire weapons in anger. And those that do, have deliberately missed. Killing another human being doesn't come as easily to some as others. Your body will play tricks on you. Your eysight and fine motor skills will get all sorts of screwed up. Lest you train to work through it.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 7:32:47 AM EDT
I carry a Sig p226 9mm as a duty gun, but didn't feel like carrying a sig as a back up. I carry a Glock 26 in a galco ankle glove. Damn good setup for me. I have been in ALOT of footchases with it and never had a problem. I have used other holsters and hated them.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 10:15:53 AM EDT
BUG's are all about compromise.

What is important to you?

Thin?
Lightweight?
Mag interchageability?
Capacity?
Caliber?
I carry a J frame in .38 and train for headshots.
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