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Posted: 3/21/2006 7:32:56 PM EDT
My brother works for a small department that has choosen not to outfit their officers with a carbine for the patrol cars. Thus, I've decided to build one for him and give it to him as a gift (I'll be transfering it to him through an FFL so no worries there).

I've done quite a few AR's so I know what I WANT to build and with what options. I'm looking for some practical input though. What have you found to be valuable on your carbine? What options have proven to be useless? Based on your practical use, what is your ideal AR?

Since I'm building this for my brother, I'd like to personalize it in some way. What I've decided to do is to have Tom Sawyer do his badge like this one. When he changes departments, I'll have a new lower engraved and put his years of service in his curent lower (in front of the mag well). This way, at the end of his career, he'll have a nice collection of lowers that trace his career from agency to agency. Thoughts on this?

I don't have a set budget for this carbine. Let's just say, I don't plan on cutting corners just to save a buck. This carbine could be used to save his ass one day and I want to be sure that it's up to the task.

My current plans for this gun are as follows...

Lower

* LMT Defender 2000
* LMT LPK
* LMT single stage FCG
* KNS trigger pins
* LMT 5 pos stock
* Tango Down Battle Grip
* Magpul trigger guard
* Colt 9mm buffer
* Wolff buffer spring

Upper

* LMT upper w/M4 ramps
* Global Tactical 16" midlength barrel w/M4 ramps (5.56x39/.223, chrome lined)
* YHM Phantom 5C2 Flash Supressor
* LMT enhanced M16 BCG w/McFarland 1-piece gas ring
* LMT charging handle
* Larue 9.0 free float hand guard
* Magpul textured rail panels

Sights/Optics

* Trijicon front sight
* Larue BUIS
* EOTech 512 mounted on Larue EOTech QD base

Accessories

* Streamlight TLR-1
* Simple 2-point 1.25" sling

Thoughts on this carbine? What should I change? Nothing above is set in stone. I have 90% of the parts but what I don't use for his gun can be sold or used on another build.

Thanks in advance for your assistance on this matter and thank you for the job that you do every day...
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 8:14:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rebby:
My brother works for a small department that has choosen not to outfit their officers with a carbine for the patrol cars. Thus, I've decided to build one for him and give it to him as a gift (I'll be transfering it to him through an FFL so no worries there)....................



You can't give your brother a gun without an FFL?
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 8:15:01 PM EDT
im pretty sure the law says gifts to immediate family are ok.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 8:22:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tvc184:

Originally Posted By rebby:
My brother works for a small department that has choosen not to outfit their officers with a carbine for the patrol cars. Thus, I've decided to build one for him and give it to him as a gift (I'll be transfering it to him through an FFL so no worries there)....................



You can't give your brother a gun without an FFL?

I'm not sure since we live in different states. A guy in his dept has an FFL and will do the trasfer for free so it's an easy CYA.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 10:55:02 PM EDT
Sounds like a pretty good set-up... but personally I'd go with the Rock River Arms Dominator mount for the EOTech. It perfectly co-witnesses with the EOTech reticle as opposed to putting the irons in the bottom third of the EO window (as the LaRue does). I have the Dominator and I love it. Another option would be to mount the EO directly to the flattop rail and mount a perfect co-witness BUIS behind it. After using my set-up I don't think I'd like the lower third co-witness offset. Just my $.02 though...

And as for slings, my favorite two point so far is the Blackhawk Tactical sling. Using it in Patrol Rifle class and it's very comfortable and holds the rifle perfectly when I drop it to transition to pistol in drills. I was using an ASP single point for class but found that when I went from standing with rifle to kneeling with pistol as required for one drill the barrel of the AR wanted to dig in the mud. I noticed this before I actually dipped it though, and simply held the AR by the vert grip and shot the Glock one handed. First break I changed back to my Blackhawk two point and rocked on! In all fairness to the ASP though, I had to "tie" the stub to the back of the stock because I haven't received my Magpul sling loop for the M93B stock yet. With the loop attached and the sling hooked to it the rifle won't hang nearly as low and shouldn't hit the ground kneeling.

Link Posted: 3/22/2006 12:45:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 7:21:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
Some dept.s won't authorise rifle untill the officer has had an approved police rifle course. I would check with the officer with the FFL to make sure dept. policy will allow use of this rifle.

Already done that. He's been cleared to provide is own carbine since they refuse to provide one for him. He's also had the required training, a couple of times.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 9:04:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/22/2006 9:06:40 AM EDT by NorCal_LEO]
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 9:21:21 AM EDT
Sounds like a really nice carbine. I'd be thrilled to get something like that!!!!!!!! My comments: Instead of the simple 2 point sling, what about the MOUT sling by specter? And I'm just wondering about the 9 mm buffer in a 223 carbine, but you prolly know something I don't. Wish I had a bro like you!
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 11:18:07 AM EDT
EntryTac, if I might comment on the dominator---it does not allow for quick removal of the sight, so if you break the glass (I have seen pics of this) and it spiders you have to shoot through that with iron sights. The other issue is that it uses A2 iron sights, which are more complicated than necessary. I personally find an EOTech reticle imposed on a front sight base to be a very complicated thing to shoot with, let alone with a rear sight too, but that is a personal issue and may not be true of the posters brother.

Sounds like a top notch gun!
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 12:05:35 PM EDT

I'm just wondering about the 9 mm buffer in a 223 carbine
The additional mass of the 9mm buffer slows the action down a bit which gives a feeling of reduced recoil. This reduction in recoil makes shot recovery a bit easier/faster which really helps in double tap senarios.


EntryTac, if I might comment on the dominator---it does not allow for quick removal of the sight, so if you break the glass (I have seen pics of this) and it spiders you have to shoot through that with iron sights. The other issue is that it uses A2 iron sights, which are more complicated than necessary.
+1, the QD of the Larue EOTech mount is a big benefit here. It's easy on/off so in the event that the sight had to come off for any reason, it would so easily. At the same time the mount is rock solid so it's only coming off if you want it to. Another nice benefit is that it moves your cowitness to the lower third of the EOTech. Thus you can easily look over your rear sights if you don't like/want the cowitness (I personally like the cowitness).

If you choose to cowitness w/your irons, you have a little additional height before the hood of the optics start to conceal your view. From what I've read/heard, that additional 1/4" of height of the EOTech hood really makes a difference when holding somebody at gun point. W/out that additional height the hood can get in the way of your view of the perps head/hands. Of course, that info was all gathered 2nd hand in discussions with officers so I'm not sure how valid it really is.

As far as the sling goes, please keep giving me suggestions. This is one part of the build that I'm really unsure on at this point. Thus far I'm leaning towards a two point mainly because 3-points seem overly complex for the task at hand and I've heard bad things about single point slings when it comes to kneeling down (like when attempting to cuff a suspect)... Comments?
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 3:00:26 PM EDT
I personally prefer two point to three point slings. It keeps the side of the weapon clear, and the strap cannot get behind the bolt catch or hung around the charging handle. If I were to use a single point and kneel a lot (without having the luxury of using my hands to hold the rifle) I would probably put a cap over the muzzle so I didn't get dirt in the bore. Or get a 10.5 so it wouldn't touch the ground!
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 7:08:22 PM EDT
I know that for KCSO only Bushmasters and Colts are authorized. You may want to look into that..hate to see you give him a weapon that he cant carry.

-BJohnson
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