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Posted: 1/9/2006 3:19:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 3:19:22 PM EDT by JLH3]
I don't know who has seen this report, but I found it from the 1911.org forums. A friend of my father who was DEA at the time told me about it, but I haven't seen anything on it in a long time. Just goes to show you how long someone can function with a fatal, but non-debilitating wound.

www.firearmstactical.com/briefs7.htm
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 3:46:08 PM EDT
It's pretty famous. Anyone with even a little LE experience knows about it. But thanks for posting it.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 3:51:19 PM EDT
Not a problem. Like I said, I'd heard about it when it happened, but hadn't seen this report before. Or anything that detailed as to what happened moment to moment.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 3:58:01 PM EDT
Those agents should have had rifles.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 6:15:34 PM EDT
There were two agents with M16's assigned to the stop. But one was at a payphone contacting HQ and the other was in the john.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 9:57:48 AM EDT
Another interesting site on that incident.

foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/shooting.htm
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 10:03:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JLH3:
...and the other was in the john.




The agent that was in the john is my neighbor.


Accountant
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 10:10:56 AM EDT
1 criminal got off one shot and the other did all the damage, damn! This was the incident largely credited with departments going to semi-autos as well as the development 10mm and 40S&W.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 10:55:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JLH3:
There were two agents with M16's assigned to the stop. But one was at a payphone contacting HQ and the other was in the john.



The one in the john had a Mp5. In my reseach that was the only long gun ither than shotguns there. I went to a school called firefight survival taught by some of the agents and that is what they said and they were there. Morales if memory serves me is the only one to employ a shotgun.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 10:32:37 AM EDT
I read the article and I am not trying to be funny but what do you get out of it? Given the will power and determination of the perps and the LEO's, what is your take of the gunfight? I thought that the .38+P should have been replaced with the .357's. I wonder if that would have made any difference? I don't know and I am only asking for your perspective. If you feel the need to make smart remarks due to my lack of knowlegde, there is no need I have never been in a gun battle and fortunately for me I am an engineer in the Navy. Yet my life is on the line just the same. I recall before the Cole was bombed in Yemen, my ship had to refuel at the same port. I was the only person off my ship on the pier. Testing the fuel before we'd recieve it and being around the locals was tense. I had to focus on fuel , yet I got a mass of locals walking around with AK's and talking shit I never heard. If there was a gun battle I was surely dead since I was in between the ship and the locals. Topside, the ship was manned small arms and crewserve weapons. I was unarmed and nervous as a rabbit in a rattlesnake pit.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 10:39:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Melvinator2k0:
Those agents should have had rifles.




According to "UnIntended Consequences", by John Ross, the two FBI agents armed w/ MP5s were still at the cafe where they all had breakfast that morning, (double teaming a waitress).

Mike
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 8:39:25 PM EDT
What's the name of the movie with the guy from Family Ties and Starsky & Hutch...?
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 9:59:22 PM EDT
This incident really pisses me off for a number of reasons. The FBI did all these studies and came up with a different pistol caliber which did not do a damn thing to address the actual tactics used in the fight.

Quite simply, some VERY brave men with pistols and a shotgun closed up against a barricaded subject with a rifle.


Any Army private could see the problems with this scenario.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 3:29:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 3:40:33 AM EDT by npd233]

Originally Posted By GlockSlap:
What's the name of the movie with the guy from Family Ties and Starsky & Hutch...?



Michael Gross and David Soul played the bad guys.

It was a 1988 "Made for network TV" movie.
In the Line of Duty: The F.B.I. Murders

The ultimate "After Action Report"

www.thegunzone.com/11april86.html

As a side note, If I recall correctly, Ed Mireles went on to become the director of the FBI training academy at some point in his career. I was trying to find some concrete info on that, but can't seem to find anything to confirm that. I thought there'd been mention of it at the end of the TV movie, but it's been a while since I've seen it.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 5:39:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 5:41:18 AM EDT by Eli822]
If any of you ever get a chance to attend training with David Rivers (PATC) he gives some great insight into the after action crime scene. Rivers was over the Homicide (Miami Metro) section when the shootout occurred, Miami Metro handled the crime scene. He is mentioned in the book by Dr. French. I am not trying to advertise for his company...just saying as a former investigator it was interesting hearing Rivers lecture about the crime scene.

Not only did Miami Metro do a report on the crime scene. The FBI did their investigation. Most all of it can be read here FBI reading room there is a transcript of the communications. Don't know about you guys but I've listened to tapes and read some transcripts of officer involved shootings. I always get alittle choked up, you're reading along, thinking in just a second the shooting is going to start.

Lastly, Dr. French used to offer a copy of his analysis of the autopsies of Platt and Matix free to LE officers with a request typed on department letterhead. I can't find my copy right now, but if you do a search on google you might get his website which will have more information.

Edited...I just noticed someone else added the FBI's reading room link. Sorry for the double post.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 10:53:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By npd233:
... It was a 1988 "Made for network TV" movie.
In the Line of Duty: The F.B.I. Murders...


I attended a conference in the early 1990’s where FBI supervisor O’Neil gave a presentation.

He said that the movie was so inaccurate that he and a number of other FBI agents had (unsuccessfully) threatened to sue to stop it’s airing. My vague recollection is that he said there were 50 some factual errors made.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 11:03:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 199:

Originally Posted By npd233:
... It was a 1988 "Made for network TV" movie.
In the Line of Duty: The F.B.I. Murders...


I attended a conference in the early 1990’s where FBI supervisor O’Neil gave a presentation.

He said that the movie was so inaccurate that he and a number of other FBI agents had (unsuccessfully) threatened to sue to stop it’s airing. My vague recollection is that he said there were 50 some factual errors made.



Imagine that!!!
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 2:28:37 PM EDT



As a side note, If I recall correctly, Ed Mireles went on to become the director of the FBI training academy at some point in his career. I was trying to find some concrete info on that, but can't seem to find anything to confirm that. I thought there'd been mention of it at the end of the TV movie, but it's been a while since I've seen it.



He was an instructor in 1988 when I was there. And, anyone who thinks you can take a .223 to your arm and come out good as before, needs to see him in a short sleeve shirt. Good guy, and a real serious guy. He is not the jokester that he was portrayed as in the movie, but more like the kind of guy you think could go end a gunfight after taking a .223 round.
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