Posted: 6/29/2005 6:34:53 PM EDT
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Okay, Oh Brothers of the legion of the Badge!!!! In Ohio, Every hospital I've been to with Grandpa, I've seen that the usual security guys are now replaced with hospital cops. Is this a new trend? They wear a patch and badge that identifies them as police officers with the specific hospital names on them. When I asked one of them if they are POST qual'd, he told me they all went through the academy and are actual police officers. When I asked about the parent agency, they told me they worked for the hospital. They have police marked vehicles as well. As I understood it, a police agency, peace officer, sworn law enforcement officers (local, county state and fed) were all justified through a charter from a municipality and got their just powers from the people through governmental agencies with proper oversight. From what I understand, or the hospitals that I have been to, are all private entities and are not funded by tax dollars or entities from a government or political subdivision. Would these officers be private special police, and isn't that something like the special olympics kind of? It just seems wierd that private companies can now equip and claim a title that is usually reserved for agencies of a government. If this is the case, can I start my own police dept of my jurisdiction (home property) and have my own agency like they can? I'll go through the academy if needed. Can I then get equip'd with MP5's and surplus M-16's at $40 a pop and why not if private hospitals can have a police department? Just seems strange to me. I can understand why they would want cops in an ER, but if it is that bad, maybe the city should put a few officers on detail there. The hospital can pay for it. They sure make enough. Thanks. |
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In MA, most hospitals and colleges have their own security forces. Many, but not all, are designated as police departments (some are armed others aren't). In MA the individual officers can be sworn in as municipal special police or Special State Police (requires attending the Reserve/Intermittent Police Academy). I'm not 100% positive, but I think these departments may be restricted to firearms that civilians can own (but allowed to possess new duty hi-cap mags . . . MA still has a mirror of the expired Fed AWB/hi-cap bans), so I doubt that they can legally have Class 3 weaponry. There is a specific chapter in Mass Gen'l Laws that provides for this, at least for colleges/schools. It might also apply to hospitals, but I am not sure and it has been years since I read this law. |
Seems like Kettering Medical Center and all the sub units here in Dayton. I also saw one guy who had a PD patch and badge from Miami Valley hospital but I didn't get close enough to read it - however it was not a Dayton PD officer, but was located in downtown Dayton. I'm just wondering what agency provides over-sight/Internal affairs or discipline issues for them. Maybe it's in house. I do know that in AZ, Maricopa Protective Services provide armed security for the protection of county properties/political officials but were not sworn officers - but they are planning to get sworn sometime soon and they get dispatched through MCSO and get backup from Sheriff's Office. They do have their own Director and admin staff and drive county Crown Vics with complete red/blue light package and siren. They can arrest and book into Madison. Maybe the hospital cop thing is an east coast thing - sure to seen near a hospital in your area as soon as the idea catches on. Personally, I think it's a bad idea and standards are not very high. I wouldn't allow some of these guys to watch my dog. Looks like a few who couldn't make the real cut with a real dept. Oh well. |
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The Baylor Hospital chain here in the Dallas area has them. They are TCLEOSE certified and have full arrest powers, but only on hospital grounds (AFAIK, but could be wrong). Some of them look pretty squared away and some not, but thats at any PD. As far as the city putting officers at the hospital, we do that here at my dept w/ one of the hospitals in town. They pay our officers to come in off duty and provdie security for the hospital and its staff. Here in Tx, most major colleges and universities have police depts that are sworn thru the state. Both campuses here in town have PD's, although they are at different ends of the spectrum( one is pretty high speed/low drag and the other is just high drag). Officers at the campuses here in town are actually employed by the state and have jurisdiction in any county that the college/university has property in (Glocktastic can shed somemore light on that if you need more). |
| St. Rita's medical center has their own PD. Those guys piss me off because they can only take action on the grounds of the hospital, yet they are so bored they call shit out to us all night long. Most of the guys are just biding their time there until they can get on a real PD. |
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I don't know where you've seen them, but I know Ohiohealth (Grant, Riverside and one other?) in Columbus is a Police Agency. Last I understood, some of the guys are armed, some are not. I did find the authorizing section of the Ohio Admin. Code, its 4973. (You can find this on findlaw.) I didn't read the whole thing, but it looks to me like its the same way railroads can have thier own PD's, and that there are a fair number of hoops for the hospital to jump through. I did go to the academy with few guys that work for OhioHealth. They are really busy, and handle a huge number of calls. Panic alarms, 911 calls, domestics, they cover a lot of things that happen inside the hospital, and being LEO's, they can actually go ahead and handle the calls, not just respond to them as guards, and then have to call CPD. THis is my best understanding of the whole thing, anyways. And sorry, it looks like under the Code, you'd have to start your own hospital or railroad to get your own PD! dp edited because I can't type. |
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Ours went the way of the Dodo about 8 years ago. Now they staff the hospital ER's with overtime officers. Supposedly a "cost cutting" measure.  Who can possess a police force is kind of complex in Texas, pretty much it's based on the ability to tax. Colleges, various state agencies, Transportation districts, hospital districts, school districts, cities and counties, even the Colorado River Authority. 
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| In Ohio, educational institutions are empowered by the state legislature to have their own police agencies. In these cases, the hospitals are all teaching hospitals and qualify as educational institutions. Most hospitals in the Cleveland area or any of the major cities fall into this category. The reason they want their own cops is the same reason that the suburbs are fighting regionalism. They want cops that reflect their beliefs. An urban Cleveland cop would find himself in serious hot water dealing with a suburban clientele in short order. I know, I've been both. Different attitude and mindset. The hospital cops are more service oriented and the hospitals want it that way. They derive their police powers from the state itself and can enforce all laws on hospital property which in some cases covers alot of real estate. |
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Art. 2.12. Who Are Peace Officers The following are peace officers: (1) sheriffs, their deputies, and those reserve deputies who hold a permanent peace officer license issued under Chapter 1701, Occupations Code; (2) constables, deputy constables, and those reserve deputy constables who hold a permanent peace officer license issued under Chapter 1701, Occupations Code; (3) marshals or police officers of an incorporated city, town, or village, and those reserve municipal police officers who hold a permanent peace officer license issued under Chapter 1701, Occupations Code; (4) rangers and officers commissioned by the Public Safety Commission and the Director of the Department of Public Safety; (5) investigators of the district attorneys', criminal district attorneys', and county attorneys' offices; (6) law enforcement agents of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission; (7) each member of an arson investigating unit commissioned by a city, a county, or the state; (8) officers commissioned under Section 37.081, Education Code, or Subchapter E, Chapter 51, Education Code; (9) officers commissioned by the General Services Commission; (10) law enforcement officers commissioned by the Parks and Wildlife Commission; (11) airport police officers commissioned by a city with a population of more than 1.18 million that operates an airport that serves commercial air carriers; (12) airport security personnel commissioned as peace officers by the governing body of any political subdivision of this state, other than a city described by Subdivision (11), that operates an airport that serves commercial air carriers; (13) municipal park and recreational patrolmen and security officers; (14) security officers and investigators commissioned as peace officers by the comptroller; (15) officers commissioned by a water control and improvement district under Section 49.216, Water Code; (16) officers commissioned by a board of trustees under Chapter 54, Transportation Code; (17) investigators commissioned by the Texas State Board of Medical Examiners; (18) officers commissioned by the board of managers of the Dallas County Hospital District, the Tarrant County Hospital District, or the Bexar County Hospital District under Section 281.057, Health and Safety Code; (19) county park rangers commissioned under Subchapter E, Chapter 351, Local Government Code; (20) investigators employed by the Texas Racing Commission; (21) officers commissioned under Chapter 554, Occupations Code; (22) officers commissioned by the governing body of a metropolitan rapid transit authority under Section 451.108, Transportation Code, or by a regional transportation authority under Section 452.110, Transportation Code; (23) investigators commissioned by the attorney general under Section 402.009, Government Code; (24) security officers and investigators commissioned as peace officers under Chapter 466, Government Code; (25) an officer employed by the Texas Department of Health under Section 431.2471, Health and Safety Code; (26) officers appointed by an appellate court under Subchapter F, Chapter 53, Government Code; (27) officers commissioned by the state fire marshal under Chapter 417, Government Code; (28) an investigator commissioned by the commissioner of insurance under Article 1.10D, Insurance Code; (29) apprehension specialists commissioned by the Texas Youth Commission as officers under Section 61.0931, Human Resources Code; (30) officers appointed by the executive director of the Texas Department of Criminal Justice under Section 493.019, Government Code; (31) investigators commissioned by the Commission on Law Enforcement Officer Standards and Education under Section 1701.160, Occupations Code; (32) commission investigators commissioned by the Texas Commission on Private Security under Section 1702.061(f), Occupations Code; Text of subd. (33) as amended by Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 474, Sec. 1 (33) the fire marshal, and any investigators commissioned by an emergency services district to assist that fire marshal, under Subchapter F, Chapter 775, Health and Safety Code; and Text of subd. (33) as amended by Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 235, Sec. 16 and Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 930, Sec. 12 (33) the fire marshal and any officers, inspectors, or investigators commissioned by an emergency services district under Chapter 775, Health and Safety Code. (34) officers commissioned by the State Board of Dental Examiners under Section 254.013, Occupations Code, subject to the limitations imposed by that section. Acts 1965, 59th Leg., vol. 2, p. 317, ch. 722. Amended by Acts 1967, 60th Leg., p. 1734, ch. 659, Sec. 5, eff. Aug. 28, 1967; Acts 1971, 62nd Leg., p. 1116, ch. 246, Sec. 3, eff. May 17, 1971; Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 9, ch. 7, Sec. 2, eff. Aug. 27, 1973; Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 1259, ch. 459, Sec. 1, eff. Aug. 27, 1973; Acts 1975, 64th Leg., p. 480, ch. 204, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1975; Acts 1977, 65th Leg., p. 618, ch. 227, Sec. 2, eff. May 24, 1977; Acts 1977, 65th Leg., p. 1082, ch. 396, Sec.1, eff. Aug. 29, 1977. Amended by Acts 1983, 68th Leg., p. 545, ch. 114, Sec. 1, eff. May 17, 1983; Acts 1983, 68th Leg., p. 4358, ch. 699, Sec. 11, eff. June 19, 1983; Acts 1983, 68th Leg., p. 4901, ch. 867, Sec. 2, eff. June 19, 1983; Acts 1983, 68th Leg., p. 5303, ch. 974, Sec. 11, eff. Aug. 29, 1983; Acts 1985, 69th Leg., ch. 384, Sec. 2, eff. Aug. 26, 1985; Acts 1985, 69th Leg., ch. 907, Sec. 6, eff. Sept. 1, 1985; Acts 1986, 69th Leg., 2nd C.S., ch. 19, Sec. 4, eff. Dec. 4, 1986; Acts 1987, 70th Leg., ch. 262, Sec. 20, eff. Sept. 1, 1987; Acts 1987, 70th Leg., ch. 350, Sec. 1, eff. Aug. 31, 1987; Acts 1989, 71st Leg., ch. 277, Sec. 4, eff. June 14, 1989; Acts 1989, 71st Leg., ch. 794, Sec. 1, eff. Aug. 28, 1989; Acts 1989, 71st Leg., ch. 1104, Sec. 4, eff. June 16, 1989; Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., ch. 16, Sec. 4.02, eff. Aug. 26, 1991; Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., ch. 228, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1991; Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., ch. 287, Sec. 24, eff. Sept. 1, 1991; Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., ch. 386, Sec. 70, eff. Aug. 26, 1991; Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., ch. 446, Sec. 1, eff. June 11, 1991; Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., ch. 544, Sec. 1, eff. Aug. 26, 1991; Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., ch. 545, Sec. 2, eff. Aug. 26, 1991; Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., ch. 597, Sec. 57, eff. Sept. 1, 1991; Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., ch. 853, Sec. 2, eff. Sept. 1, 1991; Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., 1st C.S., ch. 6, Sec. 6; Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., 1st C.S., ch. 14, Sec. 3.01, eff. Nov. 12, 1991; Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 107, Sec. 4.07, eff. Aug. 30, 1993; Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 116, Sec. 1, eff. Aug. 30, 1993; Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 339, Sec. 2, eff. Sept. 1, 1993; Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 695, Sec. 2, eff. Sept. 1, 1993; Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 912, Sec. 25, eff. Sept. 1, 1993; Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 260, Sec. 10, eff. May 30, 1995; Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 621, Sec. 2, eff. Sept. 1, 1995; Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 729, Sec. 1, eff. Aug. 28, 1995; Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1423, Sec. 4.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1997; Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 90, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1999; Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 322, Sec. 2, eff. May 29, 1999; Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 882, Sec. 2, eff. June 18, 1999; Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 974, Sec. 37, eff. Sept. 1, 1999; Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 272, Sec. 7, eff. Sept. 1, 2001; Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 442, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 2001; Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 669, Sec. 8, eff. Sept. 1, 2001; Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 1420, Sec. 3.001, eff. Sept. 1, 2001; Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 235, Sec. 16, eff. Sept. 1, 2003; Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 474, Sec. 1, eff. June 20, 2003; Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 930, Sec. 12, eff. Sept. 1, 2003. Only #s 1-5 can arrest for any offense that they see in the state (Chap 14.03 (g)) except traffic offenses outside their jurisdiction. Only #4 can for traffic offenses. sk |
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hospitals arn't the first to have private/ certified police. places i've seen: wackenhut security at nuclear power plants (some have certain federal police authority) some exclusive communities have/ had them. -a friend used to work for sunriver pd near bend, or. he explained that local sheriff granted authority. -i checked out secuity at an exclusive golf community near sacramento, ca. i can't recall the name of the community "rancho..." something or other. one of their secuity officers told me that they used to have full P.O.S.T. cert. as leos, until the community decided it was too expensive. |
| I don't know about public hospitals, but I work for the VA police (Dept. of Veterans Affairs) and I would deffinately say we are needed here. Theres an awful lot of crazy bastards around here. But as someone said earlier in this thread, I'm just waiting to get into another job. Most of the guys I work with are doing the same, or retired from the military, or another PD. I actually only took this job because I thought it would help me get into the National Park Service. |
I agree with some of that. They do alot of ass backwards shit around here, but our chief knows his stuff. He was a captain for Clearwater Florida, and then the chief in Bellair Florida. He's helped all of us out a great deal. You are definately right about some libral turd running the show. Our libral turd is in DC though. Over all, I would say most... definately not all, the VA's police depts. have there shit together. Most of the VA's police are x-military, and from my experience, the x-military guys do there jobs well. |
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Just a bit of trivia to throw in the middle of this discussion: The Union Pacific Railroad employs Special Agents with federal arrest authority. These are federal agents that report to Union Pacific, not Uncle Sam. Granted, they have limited jurisdiction, and their interstate jurisdiction made federal authority necessary, but I still find it peculiar... |
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Lots of private police departments here in NC. I know o at least one mall (no shit) that had its own police department instead of security guards. www.ncdoj.com/law_enforcement/cle_cjets_programs_company_police.jsp Company Police Company police agencies are a vital part of the criminal justice system. Company police help patrol and enforce the criminal laws of our state on private and public school property, at county and state hospitals, at shopping centers, apartment complexes and office buildings, and even on golf courses and recreational lakes. These agencies and their respective officers may by law provide the same police services within their territorial jurisdiction as do municipal law enforcement officers in North Carolina. Under Chapter 74E of the North Carolina General Statutes, the Attorney General is given the authority to certify an agency as a company police agency and to commission an individual as a company police officer. A public or private educational institution or hospital, a state institution, or a corporation engaged in providing on-site police security personnel services may apply to be certified as a company police agency. A company police agency may also apply to commission an individual designated by that agency to act as a company police officer. To be commissioned as a company police officer, an individual must meet the minimum standards [link to page] required for employment and certification as a law enforcement officer in North Carolina, including completion of the Basic Law Enforcement Training course required of any other officer. The officer will then receive law enforcement certification from the North Carolina Criminal Justice Education and Training Standards Commission. The Company Police Program also requires that officers be examined on the law and administrative rules governing company police. Once officially sworn in, the company police officer receives his or her commission from the Attorney General and will be regulated by the Company Police Program. This commission gives a company police officer the same power as other sworn law enforcement officers to make arrests and to charge for infractions, subject to strict territorial jurisdiction limitations. |
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The company police program is a grand idea. That is until the first shooting and the "company" has to foot the bill for legal defense and a possible civil verdict when officer Jones discharges his weapon at a fleeing shoplifter. I doubt if the company would enjoy the same civil immunity as local municipalites enjoy. Regards, Gary |