Posted: 9/27/2014 8:07:43 AM EDT
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I am a Bureau of Prisons employee, I don't know how others feel about us but we are sworn FLEO and to me it don't matter if you're a street officer or a CO.
Yesterday as I was driving down the highway I spotted a police SUV pulled off and an officer and suspect struggling. This was also a third individual standing close by (I think he is the one who called the cops). I immediately pulled off to the side put my blinkers on and got out of the vehicle to assist. I identified myself to the officer as being off duty LEO. I didn't want to get in the way so I let the officer handle it as best as she could (she did great imo). Not soon after I arrived she put hands on the guy and he swung, striking her in her vest and he went to run. At this point I was going in to take the guy down but she popped him with the taser and I backed off and let her do her thing. From what I can tell the guy was mentally challenged, he was walking down the center of a busy highway over a bridge, the officer was there to help the guy and I think he just freaked out. She wasn't sure why he was walking across, and she was afraid he might have been there to jump. Over all I didn't actually do anything but I stopped to assist because she was a LEO that seemed to be having trouble and I just wanted to be sure she was safe. She obviously called for backup but they didn't show up for about 4-5mins. If there would have been other officers I probably wouldn't have stopped then. My wife being overly concerned didn't want me to stop, thinking it would only cause trouble. I told her that I couldn't have drove past seeing an officer in trouble and possibly later seeing on the news an officer was injured when I could have helped. She completely understood after that. For you street officers, how would you feel about this situation? |
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Helping each other out is what we do.
That said, there is more to consider here. While BOP CO's are under the guise of sworn FLEO's, it is in a limited capacity. Under BOP's coverage, the cook, janitor, psychiatrist and guards are all LEO's. But that doesn't mean you have business acting outside the walls. The academy at FLETC is a joke for you folks, and really provides nothing but a familiarization. Unless you have some other background and training, I think stopping is commendable but without knowing how the whole street game works, its also dangerous. The feds also have some steep rules about off duty conduct. I would check the policy book and see what it states. You also have to worry about DOJ OIG. If you do act, ,you have to convince the management at your facility, then HQ staff, then the local AUSA's office and then DOJ's main office, you were within the scope of your job duties. That is a lot of people to convince, especially when you already have limited authority. If they decide you were outside your scope when you stopped, you are 100% alone. The perp, perps family, another passerby or even the cop gets hurt because of something you did, and you are at fault. That is right- you are personally responsible for everything from the lawyer to the payout. Let the criminal charges or even civil charges roll. There is no answer to give you, but there is a lot to consider. A big difference between some federal LEO's and their authority and what they can and can't be scoped for. |
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Quoted:
I am a Bureau of Prisons employee, I don't know how others feel about us but we are sworn FLEO and to me it don't matter if you're a street officer or a CO. Yesterday as I was driving down the highway I spotted a police SUV pulled off and an officer and suspect struggling. This was also a third individual standing close by (I think he is the one who called the cops). I immediately pulled off to the side put my blinkers on and got out of the vehicle to assist. I identified myself to the officer as being off duty LEO. I didn't want to get in the way so I let the officer handle it as best as she could (she did great imo). Not soon after I arrived she put hands on the guy and he swung, striking her in her vest and he went to run. At this point I was going in to take the guy down but she popped him with the taser and I backed off and let her do her thing. From what I can tell the guy was mentally challenged, he was walking down the center of a busy highway over a bridge, the officer was there to help the guy and I think he just freaked out. She wasn't sure why he was walking across, and she was afraid he might have been there to jump. Over all I didn't actually do anything but I stopped to assist because she was a LEO that seemed to be having trouble and I just wanted to be sure she was safe. She obviously called for backup but they didn't show up for about 4-5mins. If there would have been other officers I probably wouldn't have stopped then. My wife being overly concerned didn't want me to stop, thinking it would only cause trouble. I told her that I couldn't have drove past seeing an officer in trouble and possibly later seeing on the news an officer was injured when I could have helped. She completely understood after that. For you street officers, how would you feel about this situation? IMO you did right. |
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FWIW... I could have written your post, although I'm now aged out of FBOP after 22 years.
Nobody got hurt. All the "good guys" got to go home. I think you did just fine. Carry your credentials. Keep a summary of LEOSA (at least) in your car or on you. Stay in reasonable condition. Keep your FA and Aikido ("old school", huh  ) skills up.
Lastly, remember how your supposed to "take the corners wide" when running to a BA? ... It wouldn't hurt to keep that in mind on the street also. Assess and use a little discretion. Like it seems you did. Stay safe |
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Quoted:
Helping each other out is what we do. That said, there is more to consider here. While BOP CO's are under the guise of sworn FLEO's, it is in a limited capacity. Under BOP's coverage, the cook, janitor, psychiatrist and guards are all LEO's. But that doesn't mean you have business acting outside the walls. The academy at FLETC is a joke for you folks, and really provides nothing but a familiarization. Unless you have some other background and training, I think stopping is commendable but without knowing how the whole street game works, its also dangerous. The feds also have some steep rules about off duty conduct. I would check the policy book and see what it states. You also have to worry about DOJ OIG. If you do act, ,you have to convince the management at your facility, then HQ staff, then the local AUSA's office and then DOJ's main office, you were within the scope of your job duties. That is a lot of people to convince, especially when you already have limited authority. If they decide you were outside your scope when you stopped, you are 100% alone. The perp, perps family, another passerby or even the cop gets hurt because of something you did, and you are at fault. That is right- you are personally responsible for everything from the lawyer to the payout. Let the criminal charges or even civil charges roll. There is no answer to give you, but there is a lot to consider. A big difference between some federal LEO's and their authority and what they can and can't be scoped for. He'd better not even try to convince ANYONE that his actions were within the scope. They are not. "Concerned good guy acting for the general well-being of the public" would be a better way to play it. If he's going to play it at all. Stay safe |
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Quoted:
Helping each other out is what we do. That said, there is more to consider here. While BOP CO's are under the guise of sworn FLEO's, it is in a limited capacity. Under BOP's coverage, the cook, janitor, psychiatrist and guards are all LEO's. But that doesn't mean you have business acting outside the walls. The academy at FLETC is a joke for you folks, and really provides nothing but a familiarization. Unless you have some other background and training, I think stopping is commendable but without knowing how the whole street game works, its also dangerous. The feds also have some steep rules about off duty conduct. I would check the policy book and see what it states. You also have to worry about DOJ OIG. If you do act, ,you have to convince the management at your facility, then HQ staff, then the local AUSA's office and then DOJ's main office, you were within the scope of your job duties. That is a lot of people to convince, especially when you already have limited authority. If they decide you were outside your scope when you stopped, you are 100% alone. The perp, perps family, another passerby or even the cop gets hurt because of something you did, and you are at fault. That is right- you are personally responsible for everything from the lawyer to the payout. Let the criminal charges or even civil charges roll. There is no answer to give you, but there is a lot to consider. A big difference between some federal LEO's and their authority and what they can and can't be scoped for. I agree, there's a lot to consider. I know I would be on my own with no backing by the bureau, same goes for when I carry, if I use it I'm on my own. I came from the county, where we were technically obligated to intervene in the commission of a felony. |
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When driving by, I always look over and see if an officer who is on a stop may need some help. If I came across one in a fight (never have), I'd stop and ID myself and help get the guy into custody as well. Out where I work, backup is normally 15-20 mins at the soonest from you. We all know when the fight is on, seconds can feel like a long time.
I would say you did a good job. |
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If the officer is being fought or shot at I'll assist, but very cautiously.
Awhile back I was fighting two guys and some random guy ran up wanting to help. It was kind of a dog pile but we ended up with me kinda on top both suspects on the ground and him kind on top of half of one of them. Well I didn't get a chance to call anything out once the fight started but a few units were rolling my way. When they pull up they see me in a clusterfxck because everyone is still struggling/fighting, blows are being thrown, etc. and the responding units flip the guy who was assisting me. He wasn't upset or anything because after everyone was in cuffs I thanked him and uncuffed him. He was bloodied up and his shirt was shredded though. (He was dressed in slacks + button up shirt and tie). I think he was happy he got to beat someone's azz under the color of law
So yeah. I'd assist someone who needs help regardless of agency. You just have to be sure he knows your LE assisting and not someone rushing to the aid of the suspect. And you have to expect other LEO's roll up if it looks like a cluster your prob. going to get flipped if you can't let them know blue. |
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I've fought with people on the side of the road and had civilians stop to assist a couple of times. My nearest backup would have been about 20 minutes away, so it's nice to know there's still people in the community who care. This! Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, and now it's a rag. I appreciate any assistance I get when I am in a fight on the side of the road. The last one, a security guard from the local nuclear plant stopped and helped me. A time before that a fresh home from deployment Ranger stopped and helped me get a guy in cuffs that was resisting. I've stopped several times to assist guys and gals who were in the shit alone. |
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This! Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, and now it's a rag. I appreciate any assistance I get when I am in a fight on the side of the road. The last one, a security guard from the local nuclear plant stopped and helped me. A time before that a fresh home from deployment Ranger stopped and helped me get a guy in cuffs that was resisting. I've stopped several times to assist guys and gals who were in the shit alone. Quoted:
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I've fought with people on the side of the road and had civilians stop to assist a couple of times. My nearest backup would have been about 20 minutes away, so it's nice to know there's still people in the community who care. This! Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, and now it's a rag. I appreciate any assistance I get when I am in a fight on the side of the road. The last one, a security guard from the local nuclear plant stopped and helped me. A time before that a fresh home from deployment Ranger stopped and helped me get a guy in cuffs that was resisting. I've stopped several times to assist guys and gals who were in the shit alone. Yep. If it's going down, I want all the help that's willing to help. |
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If you do not have arrest powers where you are at...you are acting as a civilian. Maybe in IA, CO's have arrest powers throughout the whole state, but I doubt it.
Coming to the aid of a LEO's is usually covered by statue. If you see them in trouble, I don't see an issue stopping to help. |
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Yea, Let me find out you are LE and drove by while I'm in a fight... IA is the least of your worries..... There's a video on YouTube of a cop I worked with fighting with a guy refusing to get out of his car and in the background you can see another on duty cop pull up, see the bystander filming, and then drive away. |
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I don't think there isn't a "real" LEO who would not stop. And they should.
But the original poster stated he is with the Bureau of Prisons. For those not in the know, EVERY employee of the BOP, from the janitor, to a psychologist to a CO, who are paid on salary, are automatically are considered LEO's by agency guideline. They all go to a brief 3 week academy, with no physical standards and nothing but a bare overview of safety and basic firearms familiarization. They all have LIMITED power ON DUTY- let alone off duty where they have even less. They have agency rules that say what they can and can't do, on and off duty. One of those rules is any involvement with law enforcement must be disclosed. When you add their limited training + limited power + agency rules, they are nothing but a liability on wheels to themselves, their family, the BOP and YOU! The original poster never posted his actual job or duties. If you think having a janitor or cook stop, ID'ing themselves as a LEO, and then getting their assistance is a good idea, you might want to reconsider. They have no clue our tactics, normal SOP's, how the street game works, and are likely a liability for you, making a crap sandwich even worse. I am OK not going home at the end of the day, and I am OK if perp never makes it home. I am not OK having another civilian get hurt, or jammed up at work or lose their job. I am NOT OK with having to worry about not only my safety, but theirs. I much rather they call 911 and watch to testify from a safe distance. You can pretend they are a citizen all you want......but the minute the claim to be a LEO, they are acting on behalf of Uncle Sam, and there are issues with BOP'ers acting in any capacity outside the walls. Genuine LEO's helping each other is one thing. A true citizen helping a LEO is another. But a quasi LEO's with limited authority/training/practical experience, is a recipe for disaster for all involved. |
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There's a video on YouTube of a cop I worked with fighting with a guy refusing to get out of his car and in the background you can see another on duty cop pull up, see the bystander filming, and then drive away. Quoted:
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Yea, Let me find out you are LE and drove by while I'm in a fight... IA is the least of your worries..... There's a video on YouTube of a cop I worked with fighting with a guy refusing to get out of his car and in the background you can see another on duty cop pull up, see the bystander filming, and then drive away. I hope a strongly worded letter regarding his actions made it into his file. But Id have beat his ass next time I saw him. But thats just me. |
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I hope a strongly worded letter regarding his actions made it into his file. Quoted:
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Yea, Let me find out you are LE and drove by while I'm in a fight... IA is the least of your worries..... There's a video on YouTube of a cop I worked with fighting with a guy refusing to get out of his car and in the background you can see another on duty cop pull up, see the bystander filming, and then drive away. I hope a strongly worded letter regarding his actions made it into his file. Not when the cop who left and the motorist are a protected class. |