Posted: 3/28/2011 4:00:00 AM EDT
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My other half is on schedule to deliver around mid-June. FMLA provides for 12 weeks of protected leave, and out dept allows us to use "Sick" time to cover our absence.
Here's the Issue: Our dept. has an unwritten rule that everyone works the Fourth of July. No exceptions, No matter what. Out dept. always claims to be "family first" except when it's inconvenient to them, then we get the "You knew what you were signing up for " speech. I haven't made my submission yet, and would like to have my ducks in a a row about what the dept. can and cannot do in regards to "making me work" or making me come back early during my FMLA absence. I asked our county HR rep about what they can and cannot do and she stated that she didn't know and I had to take it up within the dept. Good luck getting a straight answer from those who want to deny me. 
Google has been less than helpful, as most of the FMLA Q&A/FAQ sites lead to lawyers looking for lawsuits or .gov sites that drown you in the legalese. Anyone here had to face their dept. on FMLA leave and fight through deployment issues or deal with issues related to being an emergency service??? I'm looking for solid answers I can reference and put on paper when I try to fight the good fight. |
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They cannot make you work. You're exempt from all work related things, like trainings, meetings, etc... This....And if it is an "Un-written rule," then there is not even a policy in place to force u to be there. What do they do if someone is on workmans comp? Or out for an injury? Do they make those folks work the road? 
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I just received my FMLA training as a middle manager for our department last year and the instructor was very plain about it.
You MUST be allowed to take off, if you wish. If they try and discipline you they could get tagged by the US Dept. of Labor. However, this does not mean the good ol boys network at your department won't try and mess with you some other way. Your call on that one. |
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Quoted: They cannot make you work. You're exempt from all work related things, like trainings, meetings, etc... +1 Fellow LEO was out for 2 months after his son was born. I know he was a no-show for several grand juries and training sessions. No write ups as of yet.  You take care of your family. They just have to do without you. My supervisor is trying to "volunteer" several of us for a detail this coming Saturday, our weekend off. All of us had all made plans in advance. Supposed to be taking my wife out of town for a baby consignment sale (we are expecting July 1st). My wife is sick of our time off being fucked with. She is about to the point that she would rather have me clean floors. If she gets her promotion next year, I might have to become Joe Dirt. Good thing about "having" to work on a scheduled day off, you can call in sick and not burn up any sick time. If they request a doctor's note, you justshow up with an excuse for the next 2 weeks off too.  |
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Be a team player and work it. It's only one shift. And, it should be 2-3 weeks after the kid is born. If your wife can't handle you being gone one shift 2-3 weeks after you are gone, you need to re-evaluate her.
Yes you could fight it and you'll probably win the battle but end up losing the war. Departments are too full of people who are always trying to make sure that they squeeze everything they can out of the department. I understand it and I'm not saying that you are doing it but try giving a little more to the organization than you have to. You'll usually end up rising faster than your peers. YMMV and I don't know the for sure answer to your question. 
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On mobile so I apologize for any loss in tracking.
Working "just the one day" could very well mess up your eligibility for FMLA after the 4th, and possibly your eligibility for the entire thing. FMLA is supposed to be used for catastrophic illnesses of unusual circumstances that would exceed the depletion of any leave, so coming back and working could be a point to provide them leverage for an AWOL or dereliction charge. Yeah, its absurd, but how many times have we seen .gov on all levels make similar decisions, with the attitude that "they have the bigger checkbook - go ahead and sue if you don't like it"? As an aside, I took a week off when our daughter was born, and used FMLA when Mom was end-stage. I didn't need as much as I planned for that one though. 
I'd call your state DOL and ask for clarification. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Under FMLA if you work "one day" you are no longer qualified for continuous FMLA and no longer fall under FMLA protection. Unless you are prequaliied for intermitent FMLA leave which is hard to get. I went through this same thing over labor day last year (the same "unwritten rule" about everyone working). The first time you come back to work you are no longer considered on full time FMLA and your employer can deny your FMLA request for time off after that point.
They cannot force you to work while you are on FMLA. If they do they are in for big trouble with the feds. Take the time off, spend the time with your new family. Help your wife out around the house because she will most likely be exhausted from caring for the baby all day. You will regret it if you dont, they grow up fast (mines 7mo old now). Having a child is a big reminder that you work to live, not live to work. |
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Quoted:
1. I have never understood why men need to take a boatload of time off when their WIFE delivers.... 2. Simply answer, work the 4th, its just ONE day for Gods sake! ETA: We all also have to work the 4th due to our city having a large fireworks display. Believe it or not, some men might actually try to support their wives after childbirth, like maybe letting her get her sleep when the baby cries at night, or helping around the house more, whatever. Post-pardum depression is very much real, and a little time off for the Mrs's might help. That, and what man doesn't want to get to spend the first few weeks of their child's life with that child? Off this topic, and not FMLA related per se, but I was recently skipped over because of my sick leave usage. I actually use it, unlike the guys that come in and cause a hazard to everyone else. When I get migraines, I have problems with my vision, so I take the day off and try to sleep off the migraine. When I'm sick, I'm sick. I do not like the idea of coming to work sick, and risking everyone's lives because I can't hold in a sneeze or a cough when clearing a house (had it happen by another officer, sorta blows "stealth" outta the water). Don't let your department take advantage of you over something that they legally aren't allowed to do. Regardless if the department is "Family First" oriented or not, Family always does and always will come first for me. Job be damned. |
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Quoted: Well said. Quoted: 1. I have never understood why men need to take a boatload of time off when their WIFE delivers.... 2. Simply answer, work the 4th, its just ONE day for Gods sake! ETA: We all also have to work the 4th due to our city having a large fireworks display. Believe it or not, some men might actually try to support their wives after childbirth, like maybe letting her get her sleep when the baby cries at night, or helping around the house more, whatever. Post-pardum depression is very much real, and a little time off for the Mrs's might help. That, and what man doesn't want to get to spend the first few weeks of their child's life with that child? Off this topic, and not FMLA related per se, but I was recently skipped over because of my sick leave usage. I actually use it, unlike the guys that come in and cause a hazard to everyone else. When I get migraines, I have problems with my vision, so I take the day off and try to sleep off the migraine. When I'm sick, I'm sick. I do not like the idea of coming to work sick, and risking everyone's lives because I can't hold in a sneeze or a cough when clearing a house (had it happen by another officer, sorta blows "stealth" outta the water). Don't let your department take advantage of you over something that they legally aren't allowed to do. Regardless if the department is "Family First" oriented or not, Family always does and always will come first for me. Job be damned. |
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Quoted:
Under FMLA if you work "one day" you are no longer qualified for continuous FMLA and no longer fall under FMLA protection. Unless you are prequaliied for intermitent FMLA leave which is hard to get. I went through this same thing over labor day last year (the same "unwritten rule" about everyone working). The first time you come back to work you are no longer considered on full time FMLA and your employer can deny your FMLA request for time off after that point. They cannot force you to work while you are on FMLA. If they do they are in for big trouble with the feds. Take the time off, spend the time with your new family. Help your wife out around the house because she will most likely be exhausted from caring for the baby all day. You will regret it if you dont, they grow up fast (mines 7mo old now). Having a child is a big reminder that you work to live, not live to work. This is the part that has me worried. If I try to be a "Team Player" and just work the whole weekend (the 4th here lasts from the 1st-4th) then I give up on my automatic leave and have to fall back on requesting time off and then having them check the schedule to see if they can spare me due to deployment issues. I'm wasn't planning on taking all 12 wks in one shot, but was looking more toward 4wks +/- depending on how the ther half feels. |
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Quoted:
1. I have never understood why men need to take a boatload of time off when their WIFE delivers.... Why wouldn't a new father (for a first or subsequent time) take off a bunch of time? If one has the time to take, then it makes sense to do so. Not only is the mother going to be in need of a lot of help, but all those experiences that one gets with a new baby could easily be missed. I took two months off when my twin sons were born in 2009, and I'm glad I did. I didn't miss anything new at work, all the crackheads, thieves, and deadbeats were still there when I came back. On the other hand, if I had been working during the first two months of their lives, I would have missed a lot. I don't fault anyone who takes time off after their wife gives birth, but I am suspect of the priorities of someone who doesn't. Quoted:2. Simply answer, work the 4th, its just ONE day for Gods sake!
ETA: We all also have to work the 4th due to our city having a large fireworks display. As others have said, working could cause FMLA leave to end, its in his best interest not to work. The 4th of July happens every year. |
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Get approved for as much as possible when you go through FMLA source (the whole 4 weeks). You can always come back early if you want. But if you come back, be prepared to stay back.
Unless you are approved for intermitent leave, which is difficult, be prepared to be off the whole time. In my opinion you are preparing for a battle you probably wont have to fight. They cannot force you to work and most likely know that. I wouldnt even bring up the issue of the 4th unless it is asked of you, and then just say you will be off on FMLA. Trust me any HR rep who knows anything wont touch FMLA violations with a 10 foot pole. Also, if you are union contact your union rep if it starts to get hairy. Sounds like a good time for a UFL complaint. Part of being a "team player" is having a team who supports its members and their families. Team implies more than one person, so do not put the weight of the 4th of July on your shoulders. The 4th will happen this year and every year until you retire. Family first, no exceptions, and once you see your child there wont be a question in your mind on whether or not you should take the time off. This may be one of the only 4th of July's you will be able to enjoy with your family. (How many of the officers with 25+ years on are working the 4th....? I bet not many.) I can tell you feel a little guilty about being the guy who is off over a major holiday. But everyone understands and anyone who is a parent will do or has done the same. No one will feel slighted except your wife and child if you choose to work over taking the time with them. Side note: Do not listen to the people telling you to suck it up and go in no matter what. There are people who blaitantly abuse the sick system. And there are those who use it properly to take the time they need to heal and recover and make sure they are 100% ready to work.Policing is not a profession where you can operate at 50%. And I would argue the people who come into work sick are more irresponsible than those who abuse sick time. Officers who work sick not only put themselves in danger but als the officers they are working with. One of my supervisors once told me "don't be the guy who gets someone killed because you are too proud to admit you can't play supercop today". FAMILY––––––––––––WORK When this scale starts tipping to the right its time to reevaluate your priorities... |
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Agreed - I'm an HR guy and reserve officer. Its absurd that your HR person didn't know the FMLA and referred you to the department... I would ask her if there is anyone else that you can speak with in HR that knows the policy. That's basic stuff. he or she is either new, or just issue dumping. Your department will need to approve of course, and you'll have to put in the request.
I know this is obvious but FMLA time is unpaid unless you can cover it with sick or other paid time. Just wanted to point it out, also most places require that you use all your "accrued but unused" sick time prior to the unpaid leave. |
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Under FMLA if you work "one day" you are no longer qualified for continuous FMLA and no longer fall under FMLA protection. Unless you are prequaliied for intermitent FMLA leave which is hard to get. I went through this same thing over labor day last year (the same "unwritten rule" about everyone working). The first time you come back to work you are no longer considered on full time FMLA and your employer can deny your FMLA request for time off after that point. They cannot force you to work while you are on FMLA. If they do they are in for big trouble with the feds. Take the time off, spend the time with your new family. Help your wife out around the house because she will most likely be exhausted from caring for the baby all day. You will regret it if you dont, they grow up fast (mines 7mo old now). Having a child is a big reminder that you work to live, not live to work. This is the part that has me worried. If I try to be a "Team Player" and just work the whole weekend (the 4th here lasts from the 1st-4th) then I give up on my automatic leave and have to fall back on requesting time off and then having them check the schedule to see if they can spare me due to deployment issues. I'm wasn't planning on taking all 12 wks in one shot, but was looking more toward 4wks +/- depending on how the ther half feels. http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs28.htm Under some circumstances, employees may take FMLA leave intermittently – taking leave in separate blocks of time for a single qualifying reason – or on a reduced leave schedule – reducing the employee’s usual weekly or daily work schedule. When leave is needed for planned medical treatment, the employee must make a reasonable effort to schedule treatment so as not to unduly disrupt the employer’s operation. If FMLA leave is for birth and care, or placement for adoption or foster care, use of intermittent leave is subject to the employer's approval. Under certain conditions, employees or employers may choose to “substitute” (run concurrently) accrued paid leave (such as sick or vacation leave) to cover some or all of the FMLA leave. An employee’s ability to substitute accrued paid leave is determined by the terms and conditions of the employer’s normal leave policy. |
| I'm actually on FMLA now for the birth of my daughter. My agency is good about letting us split the time once––as long as it's all used in the same calendar year and you have enough time to cover it all (vacation, holiday, sick, CTO). Court is one thing we're not excused from, unless the wife's doctor writes a note saying you need to be there for her––Which nobody does since the department is pretty flexible. We also have a "Court Liaison" department that talks to the DA about minimizing court during projected time off––pretty descent deal. |
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They cannot make you work. You're exempt from all work related things, like trainings, meetings, etc... This....And if it is an "Un-written rule," then there is not even a policy in place to force u to be there. What do they do if someone is on workmans comp? Or out for an injury? Do they make those folks work the road? +1. No employer can enforce a nonexistent policy. They might try at first, but civil service, EEOC, and the court will side with you. |
| They have to let you of. I wnet throug this in 2008 if you have any questions you can email me at [email protected] |