Posted: 1/31/2003 11:33:12 AM EDT
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I'm bored, so lets play some more WWII trivia. 1) What engine did the P-51 origionally have. (bonus - What role was the aircraft origionaly designed for?) 2) What was the name for the whistles the german put on their bombs. (English is fine here) 3) In order of production, what were the model designations (letters) of the German Panzer V "Panther"? 4) What was the name of the British bomber ground based guidence system thet involved staying between to radar "beams"? 5) What was the name of the air cleaning system on the German PanzerVI "Tiger" I? 6) What U.S. navy weapon used a British caliber for its guns? What caliber? 7) What was the name of the production model of the FW-190 D (Dora)? 8) What Soviet tank destroyer was known as "the animal killer"? 9) Name the major German heavy cruiser sunk by the British at Narvik Bay?(Norway) 10) What was the first type of aircraft shot down in the war? What country's pilot shot it down? What type of plane was he flying? What was his unit, and what time of the day or night was the kill made? |
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3. Panzerkampfwagen V Panther Ausfuehrung A (Null series) Panzerkampfwagen V Panther Ausf D1 (Ausf A). Panzerkampfwagen V Panther Ausf D1 with PzKpfw IV Ausf H turret. Panzerkampfwagen V Panther Ausf D Panzerkampfwagen V Panther Ausf A Panzerkampfwagen V Panther Ausf G Panzerkampfwagen V Panther Ausf F Panzerkampfwagen V Panther Ausf G as Ersatz M10 |
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Atencio, that was a little more than I was looking for on the Panther question, but my hats off on that one. That is more than I would have answered! As for the air filtration system, think of a cartoon mouse. Correct on #8. Max_Power, correct on #1. Hint on #7. All Fw-190 D models (long nose models) were conversions. At the very end of the war designer Kurt Tank designed a purpose built long nose model. What was this model called. There were only 2 squadrons of them, and little evidence exists of actual combat use. |
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Atencio, correct again. I was waiting for someone to say Mickey! Max_Power. Nice picture, thats a rare one. Good ofr the west that that Tank couldn't get the inline engine in earlier models. Check out this web site. [url]www.luft46.com/[/url] It has drawings and a short history of the aircraft the Germans had in the works at the end of the war. It will make you think less of NASA's X program. It should have been called the "What the Germans would have done if they had the time and were not being lead by an idiot program". |
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Ok guys, since we don't seem to be making any headway here, here are the answers. #2 The whistles on German bombs were refered to as "The trumpets of Jericho". #4 The guidence system was known as "Oboe". #6 The Caliber is .303 British. One of the aircraft (there were others, but I can not find my info to confirm it right at this moment) was the Brewster F-2 Buffalo. #9 The ship was the Hipper. #10, this was a hard one. The first type of aircraft shot down in the war was a German Ju-87 Stuka, at 5:20am on the first day of the war. The kill was scored by Lt. W. Gnys of the Second Polish Air Regiment. The aircraft he used was the P.Z.L. P-11 |
| The P-51 was not originaaly designed as a ground attack fighter. It was designed as a fighter/Interceptor for a British contract. It intially was considered a failure becuase of its poor high altitude performance ( due to the Allison engine). It did excell as a ground attack plane becuase of its speed/agility at low altitude. The change to the British merlin engine gave the P-51 the high altitude performance it needed, then it became the fighter that ruled the skies over Europe. |
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OK...pedantic historian hat on... 1. In 1940, the British Purchasing Co., a Lend-Lease operation, approached several American aircraft firms with an eye to buying some fighters. At that time in America, there choices were limited. They weren't permitted to buy the new high-tech production P38Fs with the contra-rotating engines, without which the planes were virtually useless; they didn't want the sluggardly P-39s and the newer American fighters were still in the design and acquisition process. The Brits asked and were granted permission to buy some P-40 Warhawks from Curtiss. When they talked with Curtiss, they learned that they were in full-rate production and couldn't help them, but that if the Brits wanted to pay the freight, they could have another American firm build the P-40 under contract. The Brits then approached the new North American Aviation company and asked if they could build some P-40s. The NAA boys led by a visionary engineer named Dutch Kindleberger, politely refused and instead offered up a new design they had been tinkering with. What they came up with a mere six weeks later was the NA-73 which went on to become the P-51 Mustang. The original engine fitted to the Mustang was the Allison V-1710. The model used in this aircraft produced about 1325hp at sea level. In America, the plane was originally called the A-36A "Apache" and was used fairly effectively as a ground attack plane. Because the Allison was only effective up to 15,000ft, the orginal P-51 as contracted by the Brits was a failure as a high altitude interceptor, so the Brits did not buy many at all. Concurrently, by this time, the Battle of Britain was over so the urgent need for interceptors was no longer there. In early 1943, recognizing the potential of mating one of the world's finest inline 12 cylinder engines, the Rolls Royce Merlin, with one of the most advanced airframes in the world, teams of engineers in Britain and the United States, began the process of making a real Mustang. Two Merlin engines were sent to America and the NAA boys quickly mated them up to a production Mustang. The same process was underway in Britain. The Americans finished first and on the first flight test, the NAA test pilot quickly realized he was flying a truely world class fighter. With the gas sipping Merlin and it's two-stage supercharger, Mustang pilots could now do over 400mph to above 30,000ft and fly all the way to Berlin and back, with plenty of combat time over the target. In December 1943, P-51Bs with Merlin engines began escorting AAF bombers to their targets. 2. WADR, the Germans didn't put whistles on their bombs. However...they did mount small sirens on the JU-87 Stuka on the wing leading edges right in front of the landing gear pants. One of the items on the Stuka bombing checklist was to "...arm the sirens or "Jericho Trumpets"". If you look carefully at a good picture of a Stuka, you can see the small propellers that power the sirens. 3. Already answered with stunning clarity. Great tank BTW. 4. OBOE...also already answered. 5. No clue...that IS trivial! 6. NEVER heard of that. 7. The FW-190D-9 (Dora Nine) WAS the production model. Although Dipl. Ing. Kurt Tank originally thought that it would be nothing more than an interim model leading to his TA-152, the Dora actually went into production and turned out to be the finest piston engined production German fighter of the war. Only a very few TA-152s were ever produced and few saw combat. 8. Don't know... 9. Again, WADR, Hipper was NOT sunk by the Brits at Narvik. She actually was sunk by the Norwegians...SURPRISE! During Hipper's transit up to Narvik in support of the German landings, she was torpedoed twice and shelled by Norwegian shore batteries until she sank (I KNOW...it sounds crazy...but the Norwegians and Danes know how to play war in a Fjord.). During the 1st and 2nd Battles of Narvik the Germans and British traded ships in fierce surface actions involving many destroyers and battleship Warspite. When the smoke cleared the Germans had lost virtually an entire destroyer squadron and their transports but they still held Narvik. 10. That is a good one too. Didn't have a clue. |
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LWilde is correct on the Stuka good website, had it bookmarked, should have checked it sooner. [url]http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_other/ju87.html [/url] Isnt the Ship called Admiral Hipper? If so it wasnt sunk by anyone. It was heavily damaged by British cruisers and never fully repaired. It was scuttled in 1945. In the first battle of Narvik, the German destroyers Anton Schmitt and Wilhelm Heidkamp were sunk by British. I do not believe these were "Hipper" class ships though. In the second battle of Narvik the following German destroyers were sunk or scuttled: BERND VON ARNIM DIETHER VON ROEDER ERICH GIESE GEORG THIELE ERICH KOELNNER HANS LUDEMANN HERMANN KUNNE WOLFGANG ZENKER Again I do not believe any of these are Hipper class destroyers As far as I can tell Hipper class destroyers were: Admiral Hipper Blucher Prinz Eugen Lutzow Seydlitz In regards to the original question. My guess would be that you two are refering to the Blucher that was damaged by Norwegian costal guns and then sunk by costal torpedos. Side note: Prinz Eugen surivived an atomic blast at bikini atol I would like to say I knew all of this stuff off the top of my head but actually info was acquired from: [url]http://www.warships1.com/GERca05_AHipper_history.htm[/url] [url] http://www.naval-history.net/WW2194004.htm[/url] Isnt the internet wonderful |
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Wow, I thought this thread was dead, I should have checked in on it sooner. Lwilde, correct on the Stuka question. I should have asked it better. There was a version of the standard German bomb that had a whistle on it, but it was very short lived. It saw limited use, and as German level bombers were decreasingly effective after 1940, this was dropped for good. The desired terror effect was put to far better use in an aircraft that was still viable. I will have to look up the [i]gerat[/i] number. The design and evolution of the Mustang was quite impressive. I have one on top of my computer (being chased by an ME-109 "E") [:D] As for the air cleaning system on the Tiger, most armor nuts would know. Its trivial yes, but without it, the tank goes a very short distance before needing a total overhaul. As for #6. There was also another answer that I was trying to find. I have read in one of my books. (over 300 on the shelves, too hard to find which one I read it in) that in an agreement with the British, the Americans were to buy some equipment off of them. I seem to remember reading that the ball turret guns of one of the naval attack aircraft used .303 caliber guns. I want to say it was the Dauntles (I know it doesn't have a ball turret) or the Avenger, but have not been able to confirm this. As for the Admiral Hipper, my book shows a location of it being sunk in the harbor at Narvik. I honestly have no clue who ot what caused the ship to sink. I assumed it was the british. German Naval operations at this point in the war are not my thing, so I can not really enter the conversation on this ship. I do know that the Germans lost a large part of their destroyer fleet there, and can only add what my book shows about the Hippers sinking. The Prinze Eugen had a great career at the end of the war in direct gun fire against the Russians in the Baltic. She really let the Russians have it pretty bad, and from what I have read, it took a while for the German ground troops to figure out where the massive gun fire was comming from in all the fog. It was a sad end to such a fine ship........so go the fortunes of war. |
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Quoted: Wow, I thought this thread was dead, I should have checked in on it sooner. Lwilde, correct on the Stuka question. I should have asked it better. There was a version of the standard German bomb that had a whistle on it, but it was very short lived. It saw limited use, and as German level bombers were decreasingly effective after 1940, this was dropped for good. The desired terror effect was put to far better use in an aircraft that was still viable. I will have to look up the [i]gerat[/i] number. Good. I'd be interested. The Jericho Trumpets must have been terribly frightening to those undergoing a Stuka attack. The design and evolution of the Mustang was quite impressive. I have one on top of my computer (being chased by an ME-109 "E") [:D] Hmmm...generations apart. An Emil would be easy prey for most competent Mustang drivers. A Gustav might be a tough opponent and the 109K was definitely a hard case...but the Fw-190D was probably the most difficult opponent for the Allied fighters. I really discount the Me-262 and the Ta-152 because although they were vastly superior to any Allied planes, they were so few in number as to be of little real threat to the conquest of Germany. Several P-51D pilots learned how to whack the jets simply by orbiting above their airfields and catching them on takeoff or landing. The Germans then put Dora 9s above the fields acting as fighter cover! The Mustang drivers simply brought more friends and ended up bagging them all. This was all in March-April 1945 anyway...so it was merely a matter of time. Galland wrote how he was shot down in a 262 that way. As for #6. There was also another answer that I was trying to find. I have read in one of my books. (over 300 on the shelves, too hard to find which one I read it in) that in an agreement with the British, the Americans were to buy some equipment off of them. I seem to remember reading that the ball turret guns of one of the naval attack aircraft used .303 caliber guns. I want to say it was the Dauntles (I know it doesn't have a ball turret) or the Avenger, but have not been able to confirm this. All American combat aircraft used only a very few machine guns, all in the following calibers: 30.06 Springfield; the same as in the infantry weapons such as the 1919A4 machine gun, the M1 Garand and the Springfield bolt action rifle. This weapon caliber was found certain aircraft early in the war such as the P-39 and in the nose of the early model B-17s. These Browning machine guns were also used as the standard rear armament in USN SBD Dauntlesses and TBD Devastators. One was mounted in the lower aft fuselage of the TBF(M) and operated by the radio operator. .50 caliber Browning Machine Gun; the standard fixed and flexible weapon for virtually all combat aircraft, with the notable exceptions above. All USAAF fighters carried four, six or even eight in the case of the Thunderbolt. All USAAF bombers had many fixed and flexible .50 Brownings all over the plane for self protection and for heavy strafing. The B-29 had 12 of these guns. The Grumman TBF/M was had the only Navy ball turret in a carrier plane, with a single .50 BMG. Many of the larger land based Navy planes had ball turrets and all had .50s. 37mm cannon: Used on some of the early P-39s. Only carried 15 or 30 rounds and was a heavy beast. Not very effective against Zeros...but tore up the Japanese troops on the 'Canal. 20mm cannon. This weapon was used in the P-38 along with four .50s, some models of the P-39, in the tail turret of the B-29 mounted between twin .50s, and very late in the war in some of the F4U-4 Corsairs. I can't remember the American forces ever using a British .303 caliber weapon...but it is possible. Wouldn't have been much though...logistics you see. Just think of the ammo supply problems. As for the Admiral Hipper, my book shows a location of it being sunk in the harbor at Narvik. I honestly have no clue who ot what caused the ship to sink. I assumed it was the british. German Naval operations at this point in the war are not my thing, so I can not really enter the conversation on this ship. I do know that the Germans lost a large part of their destroyer fleet there, and can only add what my book shows about the Hippers sinking. The Prinze Eugen had a great career at the end of the war in direct gun fire against the Russians in the Baltic. She really let the Russians have it pretty bad, and from what I have read, it took a while for the German ground troops to figure out where the massive gun fire was comming from in all the fog. It was a sad end to such a fine ship........so go the fortunes of war. Atencio is correct: Hipper was NOT lost as I describe above; instead, she was only heavily damaged when rammed by British destroyer Gloworm as the Narvik invasion began (Operation Weserubung). It was KGM Blucher that was sunk at Olso Fjord at the beginning of the Battle of Narvik. Blucher, Hipper and Prince Eugen were all heavy cruisers of the same class mounting 8" guns. Prince Eugen was sunk by the A-bomb tests at Bikini in 1946. The first bomb, an air burst, did some topside damage and fried her paint...but the second test, the shallow underwater blast we see so much on TV, really tore her up. The USN took her under tow to return her to Pearl for repair and further testing but she had progressive flooding and foundered under tow. Pretty ship...like a miniature Bismark. |
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Lwilde, I will look up the model number for the German bomb this week. I think the whole reason behind the Trumpet was for use as a "terror" weapon against those being attacked. Thats the reason I put the smily face with the statement about the P-51 being chased by the 109 "E". The Emile was much lighter and turned better than the Gustav series, but was still WAY out classed by the P-51D. My favorite was the 109 G-6 version. A little on the heavy side for the airframe, but a solid aircraft. The "K" version was too little too late. In my opinion, the whole airframe should have been dropped for the FW-190 series. Far better airframe. It still could not trun with the American and British fighters, but the German "Slash and Zoom" tactic was better used in his aircraft. I have also read about the 262 and the airfields. Another great idea made useless by an incompitant leader. I have the same thoughts about logistics that you have on the use of the .303. Other than the F-2 Buffalo, I have not been able to confirm this info. I have seen it twice, but all of my books on aircraft show the same info you post. Not that I rely on the History Channel, but I have seen this on there as well. i was hopeing to get more info out of others on this question knowing I could us the F-2 as the answer. (Hey, it was cheap, but there are some smart guys out there, dialogue like this is helpfull) I have to get to the gun show, I will finnish later. |
| I have not seen any info on US forces using 303 caliber weapons. I know that the US made Vickers machine guns for the UK via lend lease program but they were machined to accept 30.06 caliber. Given the outstanding characteristics of the 50 caliber Browning I wonder what senerio would have caused the US to use a 303 weapon in its place. |
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Atencio / Lwilde, I agree totally with you that the American weapons / calibers were more than sufficiant to do the job better than the .303 Both times I have see this, it referes to the Americans using it as a way to help the British pay off some of their Lend-Lease debts. Other than the F-2, which was junk in all but the Finnish Air Force, the use had to be very limited. [swallow pride]OK, I have spent an hour looking through my book to find my source for the Admiral Hipper. It clearly shows it being sunk at Narvik. This is not a deticated book on Operation Weserubung, so it might be in error, since Atencio has proven to be quite knowledgeable in the past and LWilde backs you up, I will conceed that I am in error on this one.[/swallow pride] I can not refute this information that appears to distinctly show that I am in error. The book will be tied to a pole and shot in the morning. [:D] I have not looked for the Bomb info yet, give me a few days on that one, it is an obscure one to look up. To replace the question withdrawn in shame, I pose this one. After seeing the name of the Destroyer Seydlitz, it reminded me of this name comming up in another use. Although I am almost certain that the term comes from a different person with the Seydlitz name; What were the "Seydlitz" troops that the Germans hated so much in the war? |
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Quoted: OK, here is a question for y'all. What US built fighter that saw service in WW2 had the best kill/loss ratio? Vulcan94 My guess is going to be the F4U Corsair, which had a kill/loss ratio of 11.3 to 1! [img]http://photos.ar15.com/WS_Content/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=7612[/img] |
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Quoted: OK, here is a question for y'all. What US built fighter that saw service in WW2 had the best kill/loss ratio? Vulcan94 Actually, I'm almost certain it was the F6F Hellcat. I know...it wasn't the hottest fighter in the US inventory, that would have to go to the F4U or the P-51...but the Hellcat ended the war with a 19:1 kill ratio...FAR above that of any other fighter on either side. That does just boggle the mind...I checked it out last night...what an amazing ratio! |