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Posted: 1/28/2002 5:21:56 PM EDT
Is it legal to own M18 smoke? Been looking for some and someone advised me its not legal to own the stuff. Any truth to that. Any help would be great thanks
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 4:28:48 AM EDT
It is legal to buy and to own.
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 11:45:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DWS: It is legal to buy and to own.
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You wouldn't happen to have a source or two I could look up please..?:)
Link Posted: 2/5/2002 2:30:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2002 2:33:17 PM EDT by DWS]
Sure, I've read about it months ago on Bower's board and unless they changed the rules(HIGHLY possible with all the lunatics running the country) they are still legal. Those guys sell and swap this surplus stuff for a living. I see them about every 2 weeks for sale on different boards and the usual going price is $50-$60 each. Interestingly, purple can fetch about $20 more and all inert ones bring outrageous prices on Ebay.
Link Posted: 2/8/2002 8:38:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/8/2002 10:15:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2002 10:16:08 AM EDT by cc48510]
Any bomb, rocket, missle, grenade, mine, or similar device (Could Be anything) that contains more than 1/4 ounce of combustible (Explosive) material or flammable (Indindiary) material is a destructive device. Do M18 Smokes contain more than 1/4 ounce of Incindiary material ? This is why fireworks never contain more than 1/4 ounce of powder.
Link Posted: 2/8/2002 10:49:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cc48510: Do M18 Smokes contain more than 1/4 ounce of Incindiary material ? This is why fireworks never contain more than 1/4 ounce of powder.
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I'm not up on the ATF regs, but TM 43-0001-29 (Army Ammunition Data Sheets for Grenades, c8, Nov 86) says that an M-18 (any color) has a "smoke composition" filler of 11.5 ounces. Fuze is the M201A1 pyrotechnic delay-igniting, with an M39A1 primer and an ignition mixture of "iron oxide, titanium, zirconium." Red is 1330-G950. I would think transporting these items would be a major headache even if they are legal to possess. TM says they're 1.4G, UN number 0303, and outer pack marking is "Ammunition, smoke." Another thing to consider is what the EPA would think about putting smoke in the air w/o some kind of permit. Yes, it sounds silly, but in some states they can get serious about that. And after 9-11, people are likely to report things they would have ignored in the past. I don't necessarily agree with the EPA, but the original question was about legal issues and this could be one of them.
Link Posted: 2/8/2002 11:13:48 AM EDT
I have been looking for M18 smoke for quite some time. Anybody have a source or auction website? Av.
Link Posted: 2/12/2002 9:01:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cc48510: Any bomb, rocket, missle, grenade, mine, or similar device (Could Be anything) that contains more than 1/4 ounce of combustible (Explosive) material or flammable (Indindiary) material is a destructive device. Do M18 Smokes contain more than 1/4 ounce of Incindiary material ? This is why fireworks never contain more than 1/4 ounce of powder.
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Would you mind pointing me to the regs on this one? To save you the time, what you said is incorrect or at best case a partial truth. Example: A 3" 1.3G firework salutes commonly have 1 ounce of explosives in them. Large shows put up hundreds of them in the finale alone. They are 1.3g and considered a low expolsives (in bulk qty, high explosives) by the BATF. A 12" fireworks shell will commonly weight 10 or more lbs. Roughly 7+ lbs of low explosives inside of it. Also considered a low explosive. The list goes on. 36" shell can have a couple hundred pounds of explosives in it, yet be 1.3g and considered a low explosive by the BATF. I look forward to a clarification and/or pointer to the regs. mark
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 5:34:17 AM EDT
My Bad...I just went back to Section 921 and found this paragraph under the defintion of "Destructive Device". Fireworks meet the Definition (otherwise) of a "Destructive Device".
The term ''destructive device'' shall not include any device which is [red]neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon[/red]; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is [red]redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic,[/red] line throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684(2), 4685, or 4686 of title 10; or any other device which the Secretary of the Treasury finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, is an antique, or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting, recreational or cultural purposes.
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Link Posted: 2/13/2002 5:41:13 AM EDT
On a side note, doesn't 1.3G mean 1.3 Grams. 454 Grams = 1 Pound 16 Ounces = 1 Pound 1.3 Grams = .003 Pounds .003 Pounds = .046 Ounces Or does the G stand for some other oddball measurement.
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 9:51:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cc48510: My Bad...I just went back to Section 921 and found this paragraph under the defintion of "Destructive Device". Fireworks meet the Definition (otherwise) of a "Destructive Device".
The term ''destructive device'' shall not include any device which is [red]neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon[/red]; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is [red]redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic,[/red] line throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684(2), 4685, or 4686 of title 10; or any other device which the Secretary of the Treasury finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, is an antique, or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting, recreational or cultural purposes.
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I think you are saying that fireworks meet the definition of a DD, with the few listed exclusions. If you are saying this, then I will again, say you are wrong in your interprtation of the regs. There are thousands of tons of 1.3G explosives made every year and are not DD by declaration of BATF. There is a complete seperate area that licenses and allows 1.3G materials to be made and used and they would not be DD. Of course someone could take the explosive materials and use them to make a DD, but then they need a type 10 and other licenses. mark
Link Posted: 2/13/2002 9:56:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cc48510: On a side note, doesn't 1.3G mean 1.3 Grams. 454 Grams = 1 Pound 16 Ounces = 1 Pound 1.3 Grams = .003 Pounds .003 Pounds = .046 Ounces Or does the G stand for some other oddball measurement.
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It is a DOT thing. It used to be Class C, Class B and Class A. They changed it to 1.4G for consumer explosives, 1.3G for low explosives and then 1.1/1.2 for various other high explosive or related materials. There is 1.4G, 1.4S and the list continues. It is for a common way to identify materials and being able to determine how rescue crews should react to them. Anyone with a commerical license and hazmat enforsement knows the game. mark
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