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Posted: 1/18/2002 3:54:06 PM EDT
All this Legalese is giving me a headache!Here's a simple question in English----Can I have M16 parts in my pre ban AR?Such as a M16 bolt,trigger,selector etc,everything but the auto sear.I hate to sound stupid but can someone also explain a Auto Sear in English also?Thanks
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 8:30:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/18/2002 11:15:27 PM EDT
I know an auto sear will make it a class 3 weapon.I just want to know exactly how an auto sear works.I had a conversation with a guy about the legality of m16 parts when he asked me about auto sears.Never wanting a full auto AR,I've never really paid any attention to this subject.
Link Posted: 1/19/2002 5:55:19 AM EDT
I know of people who Prefer M-16 fire control parts because they Are made to MILSPEC, whereas AR-15 parts may not be. The trick is to make sure the parts are properly modified (demilled) Before they are placed in your AR-15. HTH
Link Posted: 1/19/2002 9:59:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/20/2002 12:27:18 PM EDT
The ATF considers even 1 M16 Part in an AR to be an M16. Until the whole issue plays out in SCOTUS are stuck with the ATF ruling. GreyGhost, Florida is part of the 10th Anti-Gun Circuit, so your only hope if caught would be SCOTUS. Now, if you were to try this in the 5th Circuit you might get a good ruling. There was a case which I haven't heard anything else about where it was argued that since having M16 parts is considered a MG, that a DIAS (Auto Sear) cannot be a conversion parts, since you cannot convert an M16 to an M16. Prior to recently, the ATF allowed M16 parts which was the basis for the 1981 DIAS ruling. I.E. A DIAS would conver a Colt SP1 (which were made with M16 parts) to an M16. But, should someone ever get arrested for having M16 parts in their AR, as long as they didn't know the parts were M16 parts, they should be protected by the SCOTUS ruling in I believe Staples that a person must know that something is a MG Part in order to be convicted. BTW, don't go out and order m16 parts, thinking you won't get in trouble. The ATF/FBI has a nasty habit of BBQing people who do this.
Link Posted: 1/22/2002 10:55:48 PM EDT
The reason I'm asking is at the last gunshow I saw a preban Bushmaster with M16 internals and I wanted to make sure "I" was correct in my thinking that this was illegal.I brought this up with the seller and he assured me I was the moron and HE was the king of the ATF rules/regulations.Needless to say I passed on the deal.I had never researched this but I thought at that time that mere possesion was illegal even if it wasn't a functional class 3 weapon
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 5:27:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2002 5:30:17 AM EDT by cc48510]
What would be interesting is if, somebody could take ATF to court and get a final ruling on whether the DIAS is the cnversion part or if having a single M16 part is an M16. You can have one or the other, but not both. The problem is that prior to recently, the ATF was cool with M16 parts. In fact, the Colt SP1 was known for this. Now, they change the rules and make a shitload of guns illegal. Personally, I would like to see somebody go to court and say, "Well, if the ATF reclassified a previously legal gun, then they must amnesty them." Could you imagine what that would do to the supply of Transferrable M16s. Better yet, would be if we could get a ruling ordering the amnesty of both SP1s and Pre-81 DIASes. The price of a RR M16 would drop to just over $1000 and a Sear Host M16 would be available for $700.
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 3:58:51 PM EDT
cc, The law is pretty clear. Unless the part is used solely to "convert", then it is not an MG. So, if I have an M-16 hammer in my AR, and NOTHING else, I'm not violating the law (despite what the guys at Bushmaster say). As always, however, and despite my certainty as to this particular federal code section, don't risk it.
Link Posted: 1/23/2002 5:07:11 PM EDT
I totally agree. Unfortunately, the ATF doesn't. An AR-15 needs an M16 Selector, Trigger, and Disconnector to Slam Fire. To properly go full-auto it need all the above plus an M16 Hammer, Bolt Carrier, and Auto Sear. IN 1981, the DIAS ruling was based on the fact that an SP1 could go full-auto with the addition of a DIAS. The Selector cannot disengage the disconnector as long as the disconnector doesn't have the tail as an M16 disconnector does. An M16 disconnector cannot be inserted into an AR-15 Trigger. So, unless you have all 3 parts, you cannot even slam fire. The Bolt Carrier's only functions in regards to FA are to trip the auto sear. So, w/o an auto sear there is nothing to trip. An M16 BC might be usefull in that it has more mass and metal presumably blocking the hammer from firing out of battery. The Auto Sear is really the main component as it holds the hammer rearward until tripped by the BOlt Carrier. So, unless you have all the parts you cannot fire FA properly. Slam firing requires 3 parts, but can also be achieved by simply removing the disconnector.
Originally Posted By Steve-in-VA: cc, The law is pretty clear. Unless the part is used solely to "convert", then it is not an MG. So, if I have an M-16 hammer in my AR, and NOTHING else, I'm not violating the law (despite what the guys at Bushmaster say). As always, however, and despite my certainty as to this particular federal code section, don't risk it.
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Link Posted: 1/23/2002 9:00:10 PM EDT
Pulling the disconnector is a good way to put the bolt carrier through your face, too. Firing out of battery isn't exactly a desirable situation. The ruling is that if you have a registered machinegun, you should NOT have more than ONE spare part for each M16 component in the rifle, and it is recommended that you keep NONE on hand by the BATF's own recommendations. You can easily get new parts from several companies and if you need them quickly they can express them to you for a price. If you do NOT have a registered machinegun, and you also have the parts to perform the conversion, you are in a legally unpleasant condition because this constitutes INTENT to perform the conversion in the BATF's eyes. The safe rule is: If you possess an AR-15 or M16, or both, in any event, keep NO spare M16 parts on hand. None. You can't get in trouble for that then. I agree, the rules are overly restrictive (as are ALL gun laws) but it's better to be on the safe side because being right is one thing, but being right inside a jail cell awaiting trial is quite another. Would you rather be free or right, if both aren't possible at once? CJ
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