SKS and the folding stock

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SKS and the folding stock

Posted: 9/17/2001 8:48:00 PM EDT

I have a SKS that accepts AK mags(detachable of course) ,no bayonet lug or flash hider. Is it legal to put a folding stock on it?

Posted: 9/18/2001 12:24:48 AM EDT

[#1]

Only if the SKS in question is pre-89 import ban. If it's post-89, then if the magazine were fixed instead of removable (and not in California), the folding stock would be legal if enough US parts were installed for it to qualify as 'domestic' instead of 'imported'.

As imported rifles (unless equipped with sufficient US-made parts content), that rifle must not only abide by the provisions of the 94 "assault weapon" ban, if applicable, but with the 1989 bush administration ban on imported rifles with non-sporting features.

If it's pre-89, it can have anything you like.
If it's pre-94, but post-89, it needs US parts to be configured with a pistol grip or folding stock or bayonet.
If it's post-94 (as most SKS's are), then it can't have the folding stock without both US parts and a fixed magazine.

There may be other restrictions applicable to imported rifles which apply here, as well. It's outright illegal in california, with the detachable magazine, unless registered, and had to have been registered in the original Roberti-Roos registration period in 1989, I believe.

Posted: 9/19/2001 8:29:52 PM EDT

[#2]

No you may not put a folding stock on it now. It would be a violation of 18 USC section 922(v). This law makes it illegal to possess, transfer, or manufacture a semiauto assault rifle. By adding a folding stock to your SKS that accepts AK mags you will now be in possession of a post ban semiauto assault rifle.

There is a grandfather clause for assault rifles that where legal owned on 09-13-94, but from the info you gave us this rifle arguably was not one on that date.

Posted: 9/19/2001 8:56:32 PM EDT

[#3]

FYI: I'm pretty certain that all of the Chinese SKSs that were modified to accept AK mags were imported AFTER the 1989 Import Ban, so they cannot legally have a pistol grip or folding stock.

-Troy

Posted: 9/19/2001 10:15:35 PM EDT

[#4]

the chinese imported AKs with detachable mags before '89 (they were banned in kalif RR89 law), later on the chinese imported the SKS-d models which had detach mag and thumbhole stock (the kind banned a year or 2 ago in kalif, as being a violation of RR89)

Posted: 9/20/2001 7:01:39 PM EDT

[#5]

There's the Federal 1989 Import Ban, and then there's the PRK RR89 ban. RR89 banned some AK's by name, but that didn't prevent their importation into the country, just to the PRK.

The 1989 Import Ban banned "military" features from imported semi-autos, such as pistol grips, folding stocks, flash suppressors, bayonets, and "military" bipods. The MAK-90 (Modified AK - 1990) was one of the results, as was the SKS-D.

-Troy

Posted: 9/21/2001 7:27:36 PM EDT

[#6]

[url]http://www.simonov.net/law.htm[/url]

Posted: 9/21/2001 7:35:52 PM EDT

[#7]

If the folding stock has a pistol grip then NO.

You can have 1 of the following:

1) Pistol Grip
2) Folding Stock
3) Bayonet Lug
4) Threaded Muzzle
5) Flash Supressor

Mine has a bayonet lug so I cannot add more evil features. I don't know much about the '89 ban, though.

Posted: 9/21/2001 7:55:45 PM EDT

[#8]

I just checked my serial number and my SKS was made in 1968. I wonder if there is any way to know if it was ever in a Banned Configuration so that it could be a Pre-Ban. Somehow I doubt it since it has matching numbers.

Posted: 9/21/2001 10:25:37 PM EDT

[#9]

For imported weapons, the pertinent date is the date of importation (for the 94 AW ban, that is, as well as banned features under the 89 import ban).

Posted: 9/22/2001 8:44:34 AM EDT

[#10]

but if it has enought USA made parts it no longer falls into the 89 ban

for a sks it would be very hard to get the parts needed becouse i belive every SKS was imported

Posted: 9/22/2001 9:56:32 AM EDT

[#11]

There are no "Made in the USA" SKS parts, and you'd need a bunch of them to turn an SKS into a domestic weapon.

And, yes, it doesn't matter when the gun was produced; it matters when it was IMPORTED.

-Troy

Posted: 9/22/2001 6:15:51 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

And, yes, it doesn't matter when the gun was produced; it matters when it was IMPORTED.

-Troy

View Quote

What law or regulation are you referring too?

While I am at it would someone please post a copy of a federal law or regulation dealing with firearms that was implemented in 1989.

Posted: 9/22/2001 7:51:11 PM EDT

[#13]

I have on my hands, a Chinese SKS which I know has been in the US longer than 15 years. Making it, I assume, immune to both the '89 and '94 federal laws. My question to you guys... Are there other underlying restrictions I am not seeing?

As it stands now, nothing has been done to it.

I would like to have the following "evil" features:

20" Spike Bayonet
30rnd magazine
Folding stock (With Handle)
Bi-Pod

I appreciate any and all responses.
[newbie]

Posted: 9/22/2001 11:00:49 PM EDT

[#14]

Since this is the legal forum, I'll give you the legal answer (obviously, you can do whatever you want).

An SKS that was in the country before 1990 is not subject to the 1989 Import Ban nor the 1994 Krime Bill/Assault Weapon Ban. The catch is: you have to have some way of PROVING that the gun was in the country before the Import Ban went into effect.

Now, before you get upset, having proof is NOT *specifically listed* as a requirement, so some will argue that "it's up to the government to prove it wasn't." Unfortunately, due to the way the law was written, it doesn't work that way in court. The law is written to ban ALL imported guns in "non-sporting" configuration (as defined above). There *is* an exemption for those rifles imported before the ban went into effect in 1990, but YOU have to have evidence, of a type submittable in court, to prove that the rifle was in the country. Lack of proof could get you convicted of manufacturing an illegal gun.

I know that there are people who don't agree with this assessment, but you should note that the LAWYERS on this group all do agree. They've been to law school and in court, and know how the law works.

Anyway, assuming you had, say, the original bill of sale from your FFL dated 1988, or some comparable dated document or other suitable proof, then you would be free to configure your SKS into any non-NFA configuration you like.

-Troy

Posted: 9/23/2001 12:53:15 AM EDT

[#15]

Well, no Troy. The rifle had to have been in a configuration currently banned to be exempt from the 94 AW ban, regardless of importation date - only assembled "Semi Auto Assault Weapons" or complete kits are grandfathered under the 94 AW ban.

If the SKS in question was imported before 1989, it's free to have the 'non sporting' features which the 89 ban forbade - namely the pistol grip or folding stock

If the weapon wasn't configured as a "SAW" prior to the 94 ban, though, it's not grandfatehred under that legislation regardless of importation or manufacture date.

A stock pre-89 SKS could basically only legally have the bayonet affixed, and if not altered to a detachable magazine, cannot now legally have a detachable mag and any other banned feature.

post-89 imports could not legally have the bayonet, or an aftermarket folding stock without US parts (difficult to find).

If a pre-89 import was configured with a detachable mag before 9/13/94, though, it's grandfathered under the 94 AW ban as well as being exempt from the 89 import ban (which banned the bayonet, pistol grip, etc for imported rifles).

Posted: 9/23/2001 10:29:23 AM EDT

[#16]

Yes, I failed to mention that the rifle had to have been configured as an AW before the 1994 ban in order to be legal.

Of course, if you bought the rifle before 1990 and have paperwork to prove it, it's extremely unlikely that you'd be challenged about it's configuration under the 1994 law.

-Troy

Posted: 9/23/2001 5:43:38 PM EDT

[#17]

Sounds like I need to sit down with the laws, and some No-Doze.

[<]:)]

Posted: 9/24/2001 3:37:02 PM EDT

[#18]

Well, seeing how we are already on the subject, I have a friend (and yes, it really isn't me) that owns an SKS. It is a Chinese model and has a bayo lug on it. He has since added a 30-round detachable maginzine. The stock is still the origanal wooden style. I highly doubt this rifle is preban. Assuming it is not preban, is this rifle legal? Or should he file down the bayo lug? Thanks.

-Matt

Posted: 9/24/2001 4:02:06 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
There are no "Made in the USA" SKS parts, and you'd need a bunch of them to turn an SKS into a domestic weapon.
-Troy

View Quote

Hmm... there are:
USA stocks
USA handguards
USA gas pistons
USA mags with USA followersand floorplates

That's 5 parts right there... how many parts is the SKS actually made of...

Posted: 9/24/2001 5:09:05 PM EDT

[#20]

Actually, in my post "Pre-Ban SKS ??????". Which I can no longer find since it hasn't been posted on today, I listed some parts I found at:

[url]www.sksparts.com/sksparts.html[/url]

I have found USA:

Trigger Assemblies.(5 Parts)(Sear, Disconnector, Trigger, Housing, Hammer)
Gas Pistons/Tubes..(1 Part)
Stock Sets.........(3 Parts)(Buttstock, Pistol Grip, Handgaurd)
Magazines..........(3 Parts)(Floorplate, Body, Follower)

The SKS has 18 922(r) Parts:

(1) Receiver
(2) Barrel
(3) Mounting Block (Trunion)
(4) Bolt
(5) Bolt carrier
(6) Operating Rods
(US) Gas Piston
(US) Trigger
(US) Hammer
(US) Trigger Housing
(US) Sear
(US) Disconnector
(US) Buttstock
(US) Pistol Grip
(US) Handgaurds
(US) Magazine (3 Parts)

I understand they exist, but have never seen a USA Made Trunion or Operating Rod (Short Gas Piston).

If you add a Muzzle Attachment or Barrel Extension you are adding a part or if both 2 parts.

BTW, American Mags. are great. I use them exclusively.

P.S. Troy "Stood Corrected" in his own words on my post.