Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
Posted: 9/9/2001 3:33:40 PM EDT
If I were to purchase a pre-ban lower or pre-ban complete rifle is it still legal to add a pre-ban upper to it that is different from its original configuration. ie 20" to 16" -- fixed carry handle to flat top. Or would I be building an "evil weapon" because I am building it after the ban to its new configuration. Help. Thanks in advance. tkd
Link Posted: 9/9/2001 4:05:07 PM EDT
As the lower is what is pre ban, not the upper. you can put whatever upper you wish as long as the overall length of the barrel is 16". mmk
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 12:02:57 AM EDT
Manufacture date only of a lower does not make it elligible to add pre ban features. In order to add pre ban features the lower must have been manufactured prior to Sept. 13, 1994 AND been built into a complete rifle with pre ban features sometime before Sept. 13, 1994. So if I have a lower made before the ban and it was a complete rifle before the ban with bayo lug and threaded flash hider I could put a 16" barrel on it with threaded flash hider, and a collapsible stock. You can add all the pre ban features you want. If I have a lower made before the ban that NEVER had an upper with pre ban features on it, or never had an upper on it at all - then I can only put a post ban upper on it. It cannot have the pre-ban features.
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 4:33:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 8:29:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 12:15:03 PM EDT
This has been rehashed a million times on this board, but here goes...again... With all due respect to Tom at Oly Arms, I have to disagree with his advice. While there is no definitive requirement to have proof of preban status for a rifle assembled with all the nasty features (as Tom did point out), his reply incorrectly implies that you cannot be charged or convicted without it. In fact, the only proof a prosecutor needs to have to win a conviction is to prove you were in possession of a rifle with a detachable mag and two or more assault features. The fact that it was a preban is your defense, and that burden of proof to prove your defense falls on the defendant. You can possess a rifle in pre-ban configuration without proof of iuts status, but if you get charged without it, you're in deep kimchee.
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 9:46:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 9:58:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By VA-gunnut: I asked this question about auto bolt carriers. Can anyone show me a case where a person was charged with having an illegally configured post-ban rifle. I am not talking about an add on charge but being charged with this offense only.[uzi]
View Quote
I don't know of any, but that doesn't mean there has been any. Some may have taken a plea to a lesser charge; who knows. The fact remains however, that you can be charged and convicted. Just because its not a high priority at BATF today does not mean it won't be tomorrow. In fact, I'd almost be willing to bet that sometime in the not-so-distant future this will become a much higher priority for BATF. My guess is that the next democrat president will realize it, and direct BATF and the Justice Dept. to step up enforcement as a way of getting a lot of "assault weapons" from individual owners without the political risks and hassles of pushing legislation.
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 10:56:16 PM EDT
A) I've heard repeatedly that nobody has been charged with a violation of the ban alone. I've heard of cases of people having a charge tacked on to other charges such as theft of guns, trafficking, etc. B) The Ban runs out on September 14, 2004 unless it is renewed. That will require a majority of both the House and Senate as well as the President's signature. Considering how Bush is doing as well as redistricting I doubt it'll make it past the house. This comes up only 3 weeks before Bush comes up for re-election. So, if it lapses in 2004 then there will be no law in place for any future Democrats. C) If it does sunset on September 14, your Rifle will gain amnesty should any new law take its place after that date. For example if Bush is cheated in 2004 then you'd have 4 Months and 6 Days to Build and document Pre-Ban Status before a Democrat takes office and changes things. D) It is my personal opinion that placing the burden on the defendant is unconstitutional, but as numerous people have stated that is how it is. As for Status, showing that the lower was around long before the ban will likely convince most people unless the ATF can show it wasn't assembled. A lower made on Sept. 12, 1994 or within several months of that would likely be questioned as it would likely haven't been assembled. E) If it came in a kit with a receiver or the person bought a kit and receiver before Sept. 14, 1994 then it is Pre-Ban. F) Common sense will show that if it was produced long before the ban then there'd be no reason it at the least wouldn't have been with all the extra parts. For example, why would I buy an AR lower unless I had an upper to put on it. Most if not all Uppers made before 1994 were Pre-Ban configurations (Threaded Barrels and/or Bayonet Lug)
Link Posted: 9/15/2001 11:00:23 PM EDT
I'm not sure if you can do this, but... Every complete Kit or Gun requires an excise tax of 10% be paid. I would check with the ATF to determine if and when such a tax was paid. If it was paid before 1994 then there's your proof. If it wasn't paid ever then the lower was purchased seperately and you would have to find some more evidence. If it was paid after 1994, then you are screwed and it would be illegal.
Top Top