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Posted: 9/23/2020 7:51:48 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: holy fuck. I just bought a house; I got a week before settlement. Hopefully I don't get this type of shit. But damn, where is your damn house? in the Amish? This has to be one of those houses where you can shoot in your backyard day and night We're about a mile off I-70 in eastern Ohio. Just inside a village limits but in the "country" part. It's hard to explain. I am sure there are Ordinances about shooting and such, but you have to go to the Mayor's office and look in "the book". Nothing digital or online. |
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Posted: 9/23/2020 11:25:41 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We're about a mile off I-70 in eastern Ohio. Just inside a village limits but in the "country" part. It's hard to explain. I am sure there are Ordinances about shooting and such, but you have to go to the Mayor's office and look in "the book". Nothing digital or online. In this day and age, that's insanity. |
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Posted: 9/24/2020 5:07:02 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In this day and age, that's insanity. Uh, not really. Lots of rural counties that don't have the budget or number of requests to justify fully digitized and web-accessible documents. Our "book" has been digitized for most documents from the last 2 decades but you still have to go read through it at the kiosk in the recorder's office. Older stuff has to be looked up in the old school books... |
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Posted: 9/24/2020 6:19:48 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Uh, not really. Lots of rural counties that don't have the budget or number of requests to justify fully digitized and web-accessible documents. Our "book" has been digitized for most documents from the last 2 decades but you still have to go read through it at the kiosk in the recorder's office. Older stuff has to be looked up in the old school books... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: In this day and age, that's insanity. Uh, not really. Lots of rural counties that don't have the budget or number of requests to justify fully digitized and web-accessible documents. Our "book" has been digitized for most documents from the last 2 decades but you still have to go read through it at the kiosk in the recorder's office. Older stuff has to be looked up in the old school books... The large 'books' are often ledger size (11 x 17) with recorded documents glued on one side of each page. To digitize (scan) them they must often be 'busted' (taken apart to separate sheets) and run through a large scanner. The bound edge is usually band-sawed off to separate the pages. Thinner books can be run through a guillotine paper cutter. A hydraulic actuated clamp compresses the book and a large blade then cuts though all the pages in a single slice. Each sheet must then be verified to make sure it scanned correctly. |
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Posted: 9/24/2020 6:45:13 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The large 'books' are often ledger size (11 x 17) with recorded documents glued on one side of each page. To digitize (scan) them they must often be 'busted' (taken apart to separate sheets) and run through a large scanner. The bound edge is usually band-sawed off to separate the pages. Thinner books can be run through a guillotine paper cutter. A hydraulic actuated clamp compresses the book and a large blade then cuts though all the pages in a single slice. Each sheet must then be verified to make sure it scanned correctly. I get that for legal documents like deeds, birth certificates, etc........but city and county ordinances? 
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Posted: 9/24/2020 7:10:57 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I get that for legal documents like deeds, birth certificates, etc........but city and county ordinances? You'd think it'd be a Word document somewhere, save it as a PDF, $6 a month hosting at GoDaddy. I think you even get the website builder for that. |
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Posted: 9/24/2020 11:56:58 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You'd think it'd be a Word document somewhere, save it as a PDF, $6 a month hosting at GoDaddy. I think you even get the website builder for that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I get that for legal documents like deeds, birth certificates, etc........but city and county ordinances? You'd think it'd be a Word document somewhere, save it as a PDF, $6 a month hosting at GoDaddy. I think you even get the website builder for that. This. I mean, what does amending the code look like under the current scheme? Grab a quill and ink pot to line out the old text on the parchment scroll and then the town crier announces it in the square? |
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Posted: 9/25/2020 3:30:49 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I get that for legal documents like deeds, birth certificates, etc........but city and county ordinances? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The large 'books' are often ledger size (11 x 17) with recorded documents glued on one side of each page. To digitize (scan) them they must often be 'busted' (taken apart to separate sheets) and run through a large scanner. The bound edge is usually band-sawed off to separate the pages. Thinner books can be run through a guillotine paper cutter. A hydraulic actuated clamp compresses the book and a large blade then cuts though all the pages in a single slice. Each sheet must then be verified to make sure it scanned correctly. I get that for legal documents like deeds, birth certificates, etc........but city and county ordinances? They are often published in the minutes of the authority that enacts them. Many have been turned into 'soft copies' when they get updated. |
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Posted: 9/27/2020 2:41:54 PM EDT
[#9]
I had a similar situation. The seller did not disclose an easement across a property I bought. In TN, there is a triple damages provision for fraud. Maybe OH as well.
It took over a year to get ours settled. We settled at mediation instead of going to trial. Long story, but I had a lawyer on contingency rather than hourly. I like that a whole lot better. Good luck. |
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Posted: 9/30/2020 9:44:36 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had a similar situation. The seller did not disclose an easement across a property I bought. In TN, there is a triple damages provision for fraud. Maybe OH as well. It took over a year to get ours settled. We settled at mediation instead of going to trial. Long story, but I had a lawyer on contingency rather than hourly. I like that a whole lot better. Good luck. Damn, that sucks. Thank you. I got a copy of the filing letter today. They don't want to do this the easy way, so it's being filed in court. We'll see what happens as this unfolds. I think they're going to shit a brick when they see everything I collected. Note from the sellers after closing, text messages from their realtor indicating he knew about the situation, disclosure forms not mentioning this situation, etc. Gonna be fun. |
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Posted: 12/2/2020 12:27:15 AM EDT
[#11]
Any update?
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Posted: 12/2/2020 7:24:36 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any update? I think they are waiting for a pre-trial meeting with the judge. Their lawyers are still "we didn't do anything wrong". There has been some calls back and forth between lawyers, but it's just going to take a while now. |
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Posted: 1/12/2021 11:19:35 AM EDT
[#13]
BTT
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Posted: 1/12/2021 11:29:25 AM EDT
[#14]
Report their realtor to the local board for non disclosure. The utilities are always supposed to be disclosed.
If its a community well that should have been on the listing. Ask for them to dig another well, the agent, broker, or NAR keeps funds to the side just for this sort of thing. |
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Posted: 1/12/2021 11:54:36 AM EDT
[#15]
Still going slowly. The state realty board has been notified and sent a complaint.
Another plot twist, apparently the last time this property was sold the same realty agency was involved, knew about the water line then, and failed to disclose at that time as well. I A tangled web indeed. |
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Posted: 3/27/2021 7:24:39 AM EDT
[#16]
Any progress?
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Posted: 3/28/2021 1:31:41 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any progress? Moving forward with preparing for depositions. They don't want to deal so far. They low-balled a settlement offer, which was promptly rejected. They claim it was just a "mistake" it wasn't disclosed and have no legal obligation to correct it. Not being a lawyer, it reads to me like "Yeah, it accidentally didn't get disclosed, but its not a big deal, so we're done here." I'll know more after a phone call this week with our attorneys. |
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Posted: 4/1/2021 7:43:38 PM EDT
[#18]
Thank you for keeping us updated...... I am really interested in the resolution I am a a real estate nerd...... I am on the side that you have a slam dunk case and your gonna get PAID! There is no way they are not liable for the disclosure.
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Posted: 4/2/2021 12:39:52 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you for keeping us updated...... I am really interested in the resolution I am a a real estate nerd...... I am on the side that you have a slam dunk case and your gonna get PAID! There is no way they are not liable for the disclosure. That's no problem, but I'm not sure how much more I can keep updating whats happening. With discovery and depositions going to take place, I think its a better option to leave it at this for a while. I will say that we received some information where the seller's lawyer told them they were going to get sued because it wasn't disclosed. That should have been a huge wake-up call for everyone. We'll see. Either way, this case would be great if it goes to trial. If it was something that should have been disclosed and we win, there will now be case law for this situation. If it is determined it didn't have to be disclosed, I think that bodes bad for RE agents and people will start retaining RE attorneys rather than using agents. Either way, should be good. |
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Posted: 4/2/2021 3:49:24 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's no problem, but I'm not sure how much more I can keep updating whats happening. With discovery and depositions going to take place, I think its a better option to leave it at this for a while. Even if it's just a high level "deposition done", "interrogatory done", "discovery done", etc. updates would be appreciated. We understand you don't want to get into specifics about an ongoing case. |
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Posted: 4/2/2021 5:55:09 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even if it's just a high level "deposition done", "interrogatory done", "discovery done", etc. updates would be appreciated. We understand you don't want to get into specifics about an ongoing case. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That's no problem, but I'm not sure how much more I can keep updating whats happening. With discovery and depositions going to take place, I think its a better option to leave it at this for a while. Even if it's just a high level "deposition done", "interrogatory done", "discovery done", etc. updates would be appreciated. We understand you don't want to get into specifics about an ongoing case. Thank you. I will try to update with where it is as you laid out. |
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Posted: 4/8/2021 12:53:59 PM EDT
[#22]
have you looked at your title policy from the home purchase to see if the shared line was an exception.
If it was not, then file against the policy becuase it is a title defect. If it was in the title policy and you where not informed by your realtor have your lawyer contact the local board and file a claim against your realtor. The NAR keeps a general fund for exactly this reason. |
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Posted: 4/8/2021 2:02:03 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: have you looked at your title policy from the home purchase to see if the shared line was an exception. If it was not, then file against the policy becuase it is a title defect. If it was in the title policy and you where not informed by your realtor have your lawyer contact the local board and file a claim against your realtor. The NAR keeps a general fund for exactly this reason. I don't understand what you're saying. Title company didn't find anything about this during the process. |
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Posted: 4/9/2021 7:16:02 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't understand what you're saying. Title company didn't find anything about this during the process. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: have you looked at your title policy from the home purchase to see if the shared line was an exception. If it was not, then file against the policy becuase it is a title defect. If it was in the title policy and you where not informed by your realtor have your lawyer contact the local board and file a claim against your realtor. The NAR keeps a general fund for exactly this reason. I don't understand what you're saying. Title company didn't find anything about this during the process. It may be a case of “the title company missed it”, in which case your insurance could be financially responsible. I will check with my wife later, she owns a title company here in Va. |
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Posted: 4/9/2021 7:25:21 AM EDT
[#25]
She said there should legally be a water agreement. Of course, if there isn’t one because they did the ol hand shake agreement then that’s that. She says to look at the “exceptions page” of your title policy, maybe you missed it. If there is nothing there then it truly wasn’t disclosed at all. She has never had to deal with something like this so she doesn’t know who would be responsible. She says it sounds like a realtor problem because the realtor is responsible to find out what the utilities are. If the realtor claims it was disclosed, make him/her show you in the paperwork/email. If the realtor claims it was disclosed then that shows that the realtor knew about it. File a claim against the realtor. t’s definitely not a title claim if it’s not recorded.
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Posted: 4/9/2021 8:42:19 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: She said there should legally be a water agreement. Of course, if there isn’t one because they did the ol hand shake agreement then that’s that. She says to look at the “exceptions page” of your title policy, maybe you missed it. If there is nothing there then it truly wasn’t disclosed at all. She has never had to deal with something like this so she doesn’t know who would be responsible. She says it sounds like a realtor problem because the realtor is responsible to find out what the utilities are. If the realtor claims it was disclosed, make him/her show you in the paperwork/email. If the realtor claims it was disclosed then that shows that the realtor knew about it. File a claim against the realtor. t’s definitely not a title claim if it’s not recorded. One of my first calls was to the title company to see if this was in there. Nope. Nothing recorded anywhere. The county water department shows it as a "private line". |
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Posted: 5/5/2021 11:16:36 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: NAL. I would start by calling the water company to see if a meter could be installed for each address served. 
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Posted: 5/5/2021 11:19:06 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cutting their water cuts mine. The water meter is 1000m down the road and outs is the last house on the "private line". 2" pvc, so can't really trace it. May not be any isolation valves either. 
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Posted: 5/20/2021 7:04:36 PM EDT
[#29]
Can't wait to hear the outcome of this IMO you have a really strong case!
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Posted: 7/1/2021 7:24:21 PM EDT
[#30]
Trial Date set for Q1 2022. Depositions being scheduled.
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Posted: 7/2/2021 8:02:37 AM EDT
[#31]
Thanks for the update! I hope you take them to the cleaners.......
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Posted: 8/12/2021 8:10:54 AM EDT
[#32]
It's unbelievable that you're having to wait this long to get some sort of resolution from this fiasco. Since there is a trial date set, do you feel like you'll be getting a more reasonable settlement offer in the near future? Surely they're looking at this wondering what the odds of a loss are and what the costs would be in that event.
@PKT1106 |
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Posted: 8/12/2021 1:47:13 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's unbelievable that you're having to wait this long to get some sort of resolution from this fiasco. Since there is a trial date set, do you feel like you'll be getting a more reasonable settlement offer in the near future? Surely they're looking at this wondering what the odds of a loss are and what the costs would be in that event. @PKT1106 Still waiting to set a deposition date. I would think that they would want to end this before a jury trial. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 11:52:17 AM EDT
[#34]
I'm not sure why the estimate was so high. I ran 1 1/2" Poly pipe 1200' last year in 3 days. The meter was $800.00. the pipe and fittings were around $1800. The digging was the only problem. We tried a ditchwitch but it was too rocky. We ended up digging it with a mini excavator.
The 1 1/2" line was I believe 40 something cents a foot. The fittings were expensive. Of course you already have a meter. And you can rent a mini excavator or if you don't have many rocks you can use a ditch witch. Edit to change it to 1200'. For some reason I was thinking it was 700. But I bought a 500', 2x300' and the last run was 100' or 1" pipe |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 12:10:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not sure why the estimate was so high. I ran 1 1/2" Poly pipe 700' last year in 3 days. The meter was $800.00. the pipe and fittings were around $1800. The digging was the only problem. We tried a ditchwitch but it was too rocky. We ended up digging it with a mini excavator. The 1 1/2" line was I believe 40 something cents a foot. The fittings were expensive. Of course you already have a meter. And you can rent a mini excavator or if you don't have many rocks you can use a ditch witch. Dig and install approximately 3800’ of 4” C-900 DR-14 waterline pipe with blow-off at end -Includes making connection to existing 6” waterline -Includes flaggers while working along road -Includes a 4” water valve every 1,000’ per County standards on new lines -Includes total of 5 residential taps on new 4” line (each tap includes shut-off valve & box, meter pit, meter lid, & meter horn ONLY) -Includes ONE paid tap fee up to 3/4” for PKT1106 only -Includes up to 9 driveway crossings with allowance for replacing surface driveway stone only Dig and install service line from meter pit to PKT1106's existing service line(s) Price includes maintenance bond as required by County Water District Chlorinate 4” waterline and pressure test per County requirements Includes required County Bond and as-built drawing Final grade, seed, and straw |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 12:55:59 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dig and install approximately 3800’ of 4” C-900 DR-14 waterline pipe with blow-off at end -Includes making connection to existing 6” waterline -Includes flaggers while working along road -Includes a 4” water valve every 1,000’ per County standards on new lines -Includes total of 5 residential taps on new 4” line (each tap includes shut-off valve & box, meter pit, meter lid, & meter horn ONLY) -Includes ONE paid tap fee up to 3/4” for PKT1106 only -Includes up to 9 driveway crossings with allowance for replacing surface driveway stone only Dig and install service line from meter pit to PKT1106's existing service line(s) Price includes maintenance bond as required by County Water District Chlorinate 4” waterline and pressure test per County requirements Includes required County Bond and as-built drawing Final grade, seed, and straw What was the quote date? Construction has gotten a lot more expensive in the past few months so it might be worth asking your attorney about getting a new quote to increase the amount you're suing for. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 3:31:24 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What was the quote date? Construction has gotten a lot more expensive in the past few months so it might be worth asking your attorney about getting a new quote to increase the amount you're suing for. That was the most recent quite about a month ago. Went up 20% from the original. Up to $95k now. |
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Posted: 9/15/2021 8:23:38 PM EDT
[#38]
Posting to keep the thread from going to the archives. No more movement yet.
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Posted: 10/21/2021 1:59:01 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Posting to keep the thread from going to the archives. No more movement yet. Again |
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Posted: 10/26/2021 7:05:10 PM EDT
[#40]
How much has your bills been, seems like 2 years for this, has there been any issues?
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Posted: 10/27/2021 6:59:23 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How much has your bills been, seems like 2 years for this, has there been any issues? We're above $30k for lawyers fees. The issue is they don't want to admit they fucked up and keep dragging this out. Depositions appear to be confirmed for December. |
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Posted: 10/28/2021 12:58:29 AM EDT
[#42]
I don’t venture in this forum often. Holy shit how is this still going on and on. Good luck.
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Posted: 10/28/2021 1:24:18 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If it were the first house, this would not be as big an issue as I would let everyone know about the plans. It is the last house on the line. @PKT1106 Might be worth inquiring about your policy coverage specifics with your Title Insurance. The title coverage policy on my previous home covered our losses for .65 acres of land we lost via adverse possession and replacing my entire septic system after we discovered a previous owner had illegally modified it and the county required us to replace the system with a $30k system once the illegal modification was discovered. No guarantees it'll be covered or even apply to your situation, but finding out if it covers any repairs/replacement might be useful. |
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Posted: 12/9/2021 8:46:49 AM EDT
[#44]
Wife's deposition was yesterday. I was able to listen in on most of it from the next room. It was exhausting. Just under 5 hours.
Mine is tomorrow. I imagine it will be longer because of my knowledge of the situation. |
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Posted: 12/9/2021 8:58:48 AM EDT
[#45]
Tagging. Keep us posted. Good story.
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Posted: 12/17/2021 9:51:03 AM EDT
[#46]
Wishing you the best hope your deposition went well and they fold like a cheap suit after hearing all your evidence! Look forward to a update
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Posted: 12/17/2021 10:26:39 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wishing you the best hope your deposition went well and they fold like a cheap suit after hearing all your evidence! Look forward to a update They're not done with me yet. 7hrs and there's a part 2 for me after the new year. |
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Posted: 12/19/2021 1:29:12 PM EDT
[#48]
Have you been able to depose the previous owner or Realtor yet?
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Posted: 12/19/2021 3:12:00 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have you been able to depose the previous owner or Realtor yet? Realtor, yes. Previous owners are after they get done with me. My attorney told me the realtor know about this the while time, but also answered a lot of "I don't remember". |
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Posted: 1/10/2022 7:26:11 AM EDT
[#50]
After 13hrs of questioning me and 5hrs questioning my wife, their lawyers are done with us. For now. The last people to be deposed are the previous owners.
Still, no proof that it was in the contract, no proof we knew about it before signing the contract, proof the sellers and their realtor knew about it, and proof that the seller's previous lawyer told them they should have disclosed it and thought they were going to get sued. If your own lawyer thinks you're gonna get sued, wouldn't that make you stop and think you did something wrong? One argument it that it's was "grandfathered" in, even though the piping they connected to was a 6" line installed in the 1960s. Another is that we should have asked for utility bills even though the rates were available online. Then we would have asked questions. |
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