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Posted: 9/15/2002 2:21:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2002 2:38:43 AM EDT by MPowell]
I stopped by a friend of mine's yesterday. He started telling me about an AR15 that his friend just bought. He was in the market for a pre ban. This old man says "I have one that I will sell for $1000. The gun was in good shape & a good deal so he bought. After he gets home & some further inspection, He finds it has selector switch on it. Safe,Fire,2 dots & 3 dots. Now what? I'm fairly new to this "Evil Black Rifle" stuff. But I have read enough on this board that I know this guy could get into some serious trouble with no papers on this gun. Is there anything he can do other than getting rid of it ASAP?
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 2:26:25 AM EDT
well all ar's have a selector switch. Duh! now what could put him in trouble is how many positions that selector switch can move too... if it goes from safe, to semi, and then to something else.. ur now in deep doodoo
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 2:34:15 AM EDT
The switch has a ".." & "..." on it. I,m sorry, I should have been more clear. BTW I have not seen this gun. I'm just going by what my friend told me.
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 2:42:18 AM EDT
I edited my post to be more clear
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 2:50:35 AM EDT
I apologize for being an asshole... after reading my post i realized it was pretty immature... 2 dots and 3? er...that definitely looks like burst fire and maybe full auto. If thats what it really is, he should get rid of the firearm. Sorry to say but that is definitely in the illegal zone and what he has is an unregistered machine gun. Big no no by the ATF, and if caught will demand jailtime. I'm not sure exactly on how to proceed with this, since i have honest no experience with an illegal firearm. Im assuming best course of action is to contact local police department or ATF branch and ask directions on how to dispose of properly. The least he can do? Salvage some of the parts, like the pistol grip, buttstock, upper receiver, etc. And dispose of the lower as deemed. If hes real lucky, maybe its just an RDIAS, or some other full auto part that was put in. In that case, im guessing you can dispose of that illegal part, and dont forget the full auto bolt carrier. Once again though, do not quote me on this... only speculation. Either way, 2 dot and 3 dot is a bad sign. =o( Sorry to hear that
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 2:58:19 AM EDT
I would think if it is an unregistered pre-ban ar he could just take the lower reciever parts out and put in a semi-trigger. And of course throw away the full auto parts as they are illegal.
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 4:40:50 AM EDT
If it has the pin hole for the sear, the reciever an illegal MG. If so, it should be destroyed. So much for a pre-ban! The M-16 internals can be used in semi IF they are modified to render tham no longer FA capable. If just a DIAS or LL, with no sear hole, he can modify the internals and trash the LL or DIAS.
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 4:57:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2002 4:59:10 AM EDT by schornstinefager]
or lets just fantasize here... may be its is a registered and the guy ....din know what he had ? checked the serial # is it hot? maybe a finders fee from the owner... maybe its not and legal ....there's always paper work.. or cash from a gun buy back granted not that much..but some Leo some where sho be happy..Schornstinefager.....
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 5:09:18 AM EDT
If it is really an unregistered MG, I don't think I would call the ATF and ask how to dispose of it. I would just dispose of it (cut it up) and I wouldn't tell anyone. I could actually see the ATF bringing charges against someone trying to do "the right thing". [:(]
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 5:11:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By schornstinefager: or lets just fantasize here... may be its is a registered and the guy ....din know what he had ? checked the serial # is it hot? maybe a finders fee from the owner... maybe its not and legal ....there's always paper work.. or cash from a gun buy back granted not that much..but some Leo some where sho be happy..Schornstinefager.....
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You touched on my next question. From The way I heard it, The original owner didn't seem to know what he had. With that being said, Is there any way this gun could registered & the guy not know & not be stolen?
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 5:39:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2002 8:10:26 AM EDT by 5subslr5]
Originally Posted By MPowell:
Originally Posted By schornstinefager: or lets just fantasize here... may be its is a registered and the guy ....din know what he had ? checked the serial # is it hot? maybe a finders fee from the owner... maybe its not and legal ....there's always paper work.. or cash from a gun buy back granted not that much..but some Leo some where sho be happy..Schornstinefager.....
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You touched on my next question. From The way I heard it, The original owner didn't seem to know what he had. With that being said, Is there any way this gun could registered & the guy not know & not be stolen?
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[b]MPowell, we have both a Legal Forum and an M16 Forum here on AR15.com.[/b] I believe you will be better served if you took this topic to one of those forums . Edited to add: In fact, I'm going to ask staff to move it for you. [b]MPowell, you still mostly carry IWB ??[/b]
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 6:59:46 AM EDT
Your friend sure is unlucky.
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 8:14:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Oslow: Your friend sure is unlucky.
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Yep But isn't it lucky for MPowell that we have a Legal Forum !! I know you boys will take good care of MPowell and answer all his [friends'] questions.
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 3:57:49 PM EDT
5subslr5, Yes I still carry IWB. I would like to thank everyone for the replys
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 4:11:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 4:16:51 PM EDT
What if it did have a sear hole and was some dummy's backyard conversion. Couldn't you just take out all the FA parts and put in SA parts and then weld up the sear hole, refinish it and have a legal pre-ban rifle? After that was all done there would be no way for it to be a MG and probably no one would ever know if it was done right, so to me it sounds logical. But then again most things that seem logical don't necessarily comply with the Fed's view on things....
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 9:12:19 AM EDT
No expert here by any means,but what I have read on other topics,hole could be welded up,but gunsmith's don't like to work on unregistered machineguns,buddy at the auto-body shop might do it, results might not be that good.Might be better off just buying another stripped lower.
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 10:00:25 AM EDT
One thing to remember is that markings are just markings. By themselves, they don't make anything illegal. What matters is, is there an autosear pin hole drilled? If there is, it's a machinegun and it better be registered, period. An attorney could have the serial number checked with the BATF without any problems. The BATF can't force attorney to reveal anything about the client because of attorney-client privilege. If the rifle has a DIAS or a lightning link, then the DIAS or lightning link must be marked with a manufacturer and serial number or it's definitely illegal. Presence of manufacturer's ID and a serial suggests it's registered...in which case again, an attorney can get this verified with the BATF. If the LL, DIAS, or receiver come back as being registered, then a legal transfer MAY be possible if the rifle wasn't stolen. And even then, it may be possible to clear its status. And then again, maybe the extra markings are just for show. It may have only a semiauto parts kit in it, and may be perfectly legal. But an inspection and some research is certainly warranted. CJ
Link Posted: 9/16/2002 11:41:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/17/2002 5:14:16 PM EDT
Update: My friend sent this email after I sent him the link to this post. "Thanks Mark. Turns out to be a moot point though. He took it out this weekend and shot 200 rds. through it!!! He said it would only shoot semi-auto in all the non-safe positions. By the way....where is the sear hole on the receiver? I guess it could still be illegal if it has the hole?"
Link Posted: 9/17/2002 5:26:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/17/2002 5:37:42 PM EDT by MAHABALI]
well, somthing is still wrong here if the selector turns to 4 positions and fires from all of them.
Link Posted: 9/17/2002 5:35:32 PM EDT
Not that I advocate anybody breaking the law. BUT, if I were your friend, I'd keep my mouth shut, replace the FA fire control with SA fire control, and go have fun.
Link Posted: 9/17/2002 8:04:50 PM EDT
The sear pin hole is located directly above the fire control selector switch, so when the rifle is in semiauto mode, the pointer is pointed directly at the pin. Here is a pic I found that shows this: [img]http://www.fulton-armory.com/Diemaco1.jpg[/img] The mere presence of this hole makes the lower receiver a machinegun in the eyes of the BATF and therefore the law, without exception. CJ
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