Posted: 1/21/2010 10:29:19 AM EDT
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Poll inbound.
While looking into the prospect of building a house, I found out that my state has some pretty tight building codes. It seems like they're the result of that old 'there oughta be a law' mindset. Comments? |
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I support building codes depending if one lives in the city of not. In a city if your house catches fire due to faulty wiring then the whole block burns down. Or if some one builds a skyscaper I sure wouldn't want that to tip over. But say out in the country or where you can't damage some ones property beside your own i see no point to building codes. |
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I like that independent groups have developed codes. I think code enforcement should be up to the insurance industry, for example, if you want homeowners insurance on your home, here are my minimum standards for a good rate. Exceed standards, get a discount. The .gov may start out with codes as a good thing, but they have been twisted into revenue generation schemes, NOT public safety schemes. |
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I support most building codes. There are some that are over the top - especially for commercial buildings - but for the most part they are a good idea. Electrical code is not just arbitrary - there are good reasons for wiring your house right. Plumbing and HVAC code is the same way. Some framing code - like nobody being able to drill a hole through a laminated engineered beam - is a little over the top. The beam should be engineered to accommodate a few holes for plumbing & electrical, IMO. If you're building your own home, you'll probably want to meet or exceed just about every possible code standard anyways. |
| Codes are a GOOD thing as long as they don't restrict you from being creative with your own property. My parents own houses in Maine and Florida were a certain amount of "green space" is required by law. They can't even build a shed, it's ridiculous. Also, architectural codes are BS. |
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I think codes are worthwhile. http://www.fcproductions.net/chinalbeit/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/china_1432267c.jpg imagine if those fell the other way... |
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I support building codes because they protect society as a whole. They protect you when you walk into a pubic building, they protect you when you buy a house. Look at the fire rates in large cities with many old buildings that did not have to meet codes versus fire rates in large cities with modern codes. That said, there are some codes that are 'there ought to be a law' BS and some places have twisted it into a revenue scheme.  |
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Quoted: I like that independent groups have developed codes. I think code enforcement should be up to the insurance industry, for example, if you want homeowners insurance on your home, here are my minimum standards for a good rate. Exceed standards, get a discount. The .gov may start out with codes as a good thing, but they have been twisted into revenue generation schemes, NOT public safety schemes. Pretty much this. The NEC is a shining example of how this type of thing should work. |
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Basic electrical and structual codes are good I think. The vast majority of people would not know how to inspect those things for themselves. Anything much more than that is BS. My uncle built his house with a back deck. The deck was more than like 12" off the ground, and he failed his inspection. He said "it's my fucking house, and I don't want railing- I KNOW there is a 12" drop and if I hurt myself it's my own fault" Inspector said tough shit. So my uncle get some dirt and built a small berm all the way around the deck so it would meet standards instead of building railing. Needless to say, after the inspector left he moved all the dirt away. PC nanny crap is complete BS- ensuring houses don't collapse or catch fire from faulty electricity is OK. |
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Most of the time a code is created after a lesson learned from a mishap or disaster.
For example, people would cram into bars down in building basements back in Chicago with one narrow way in and out not realizing the escape hazard. Well after a few fires and hundreds of lives lost, fire standards were invented and codified. They have their reason and purpose. Most ordnances/codes are just adopted based on the standards of the independent groups/NGOs. |
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Bear in mind that the codes are minimum standards. My next house will be built to my standards, which will be much higher than 'code'. Yeah, I'm gonna drive my GC nuts.  Just make sure you give him fair warning as to what your "standards" are, otherwise it ain't going to be pretty. Some HO's have the most INSANE ideas of what should be "standard" on their home. I had one client that thought that more than 1/4" of crown on a stud was a defect and it should be sent back to the lumber yard, NO I am not going hand select and send 50% of the studs back to the lumber yard 
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Most of the time a code is created after a lesson learned from a mishap or disaster. For example, people would cram into bars down in building basements back in Chicago with one narrow way in and out not realizing the escape hazard. Well after a few fires and hundreds of lives lost, fire standards were invented and codified. They have their reason and purpose. Ordnances/codes are just adopted based on the standards of the independent groups. One of those events is the reason why doors on commercial buildings have to open out instead of in, and why there are signs that say "This door to remain unlocked during business hours" on a lot of commercial doors. Lots of people died once because of one locked door and inward swinging doors at the entrance. |
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Most of the time a code is created after a lesson learned from a mishap or disaster. Just like most gun laws, right? 
Here's what I don't get: If I live in a free country, why can't I build whatever sort of shack I want - then if the local electric company refuses me power, or I can't get water, well, that's their business; same with Insurance companies. That way, the desire to do business with others would drive me to build to their own specs, and I could build to what they saw as needed minimums. The rest of the structure would be left to my own desires. Isn't that how a free, capitalist society works? Why should this be any different? |
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I support codes inside of city limits (for obvious things like access to utility lines, etc), or in danger close proximity to other dwellings or business. A mile from the nearest neighbor? No one will care if my place burns down or collapses. My loss, my problem.
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I support building codes depending if one lives in the city of not. In a city if your house catches fire due to faulty wiring then the whole block burns down. Or if some one builds a skyscaper I sure wouldn't want that to tip over. But say out in the country or where you can't damage some ones property beside your own i see no point to building codes. I disagree, since out in the country your house burning could start a forest fire that might not be noticed until it is out of control. Building codes are one of the few Gov't laws I agree with. |
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Yes building codes are good. This is only because 95% of the general population has absolutely no idea what make things "safe" or "unsafe" yet they are the first ones to sue when their house burns down, the child gets electrocuted, or their upper floor collapses onto a ground floor. The other reason that they're good is that they reduce the chances of having to call the fire dept, ambulance, or rescue dog team when something goes wrong. |
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out in the country your house burning could start a forest fire that might not be noticed until it is out of control. Building codes are one of the few Gov't laws I agree with. Couldn't a careless campfire start the same forest fire - and isn't it safe to say that campfires have started more forest fires than house fires, over the last 200 years or so? Should we have codes for campfires? |
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Most of the time a code is created after a lesson learned from a mishap or disaster. Just like most gun laws, right?
Here's what I don't get: If I live in a free country, why can't I build whatever sort of shack I want - then if the local electric company refuses me power, or I can't get water, well, that's their business; same with Insurance companies. That way, the desire to do business with others would drive me to build to their own specs, and I could build to what they saw as needed minimums. The rest of the structure would be left to my own desires. Isn't that how a free, capitalist society works? Why should this be any different? If you don't have a proper septic system built to code, your shit will run downstream and can affect others. |
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Most of the time a code is created after a lesson learned from a mishap or disaster. Just like most gun laws, right?
Here's what I don't get: If I live in a free country, why can't I build whatever sort of shack I want - then if the local electric company refuses me power, or I can't get water, well, that's their business; same with Insurance companies. That way, the desire to do business with others would drive me to build to their own specs, and I could build to what they saw as needed minimums. The rest of the structure would be left to my own desires. Isn't that how a free, capitalist society works? Why should this be any different? Stop thinking like a free man. We're an interdependent society now. (/Ward of the Nanny State) |
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Most of the time a code is created after a lesson learned from a mishap or disaster. Just like most gun laws, right?
Here's what I don't get: If I live in a free country, why can't I build whatever sort of shack I want - then if the local electric company refuses me power, or I can't get water, well, that's their business; same with Insurance companies. That way, the desire to do business with others would drive me to build to their own specs, and I could build to what they saw as needed minimums. The rest of the structure would be left to my own desires. Isn't that how a free, capitalist society works? Why should this be any different? If you don't have a proper septic system built to code, your shit will run downstream and can affect others. Then you'd take him to court and sue for damages. The way the system is supposed to work. |
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Most of the time a code is created after a lesson learned from a mishap or disaster. Just like most gun laws, right?
Here's what I don't get: If I live in a free country, why can't I build whatever sort of shack I want - then if the local electric company refuses me power, or I can't get water, well, that's their business; same with Insurance companies. That way, the desire to do business with others would drive me to build to their own specs, and I could build to what they saw as needed minimums. The rest of the structure would be left to my own desires. Isn't that how a free, capitalist society works? Why should this be any different? If you don't have a proper septic system built to code, your shit will run downstream and can affect others. Then you'd take him to court and sue for damages. The way the system is supposed to work. If you can find out where it's coming from. Or even know that's what's making your family sick. And even if you did, wouldn't it have been easier to save a lifetimes worth of heartache in litigation and tying up the courts? |
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Most of the time a code is created after a lesson learned from a mishap or disaster. Just like most gun laws, right?
Here's what I don't get: If I live in a free country, why can't I build whatever sort of shack I want - then if the local electric company refuses me power, or I can't get water, well, that's their business; same with Insurance companies. That way, the desire to do business with others would drive me to build to their own specs, and I could build to what they saw as needed minimums. The rest of the structure would be left to my own desires. Isn't that how a free, capitalist society works? Why should this be any different? If you don't have a proper septic system built to code, your shit will run downstream and can affect others. Passing a law that states that my waste has to stay on my property, or must be piped into the public waste disposal system under certain criteria, sounds reasonable enough. But you sort of dodged the question, didn't you? <––playing devil's advocate here because he's never really thought about this before.... (besides, my waste isn't a fraction of what's generated by the deer, fish, ducks, geese, turkeys, birds, and squirrels around the house...nevermind my dog) |
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Most of the time a code is created after a lesson learned from a mishap or disaster. Just like most gun laws, right?
Here's what I don't get: If I live in a free country, why can't I build whatever sort of shack I want - then if the local electric company refuses me power, or I can't get water, well, that's their business; same with Insurance companies. That way, the desire to do business with others would drive me to build to their own specs, and I could build to what they saw as needed minimums. The rest of the structure would be left to my own desires. Isn't that how a free, capitalist society works? Why should this be any different? If you don't have a proper septic system built to code, your shit will run downstream and can affect others. Then you'd take him to court and sue for damages. The way the system is supposed to work. If you can find out where it's coming from. Or even know that's what's making your family sick. Any other strawmen you want to toss out there to try and bolster your support for inviting more government into our lives? |
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Most of the time a code is created after a lesson learned from a mishap or disaster. Just like most gun laws, right?
Here's what I don't get: If I live in a free country, why can't I build whatever sort of shack I want - then if the local electric company refuses me power, or I can't get water, well, that's their business; same with Insurance companies. That way, the desire to do business with others would drive me to build to their own specs, and I could build to what they saw as needed minimums. The rest of the structure would be left to my own desires. Isn't that how a free, capitalist society works? Why should this be any different? If you don't have a proper septic system built to code, your shit will run downstream and can affect others. Passing a law that states that my waste has to stay on my property, or must be piped into the public waste disposal system under certain criteria, sounds reasonable enough. But you sort of dodged the question, didn't you? <––playing devil's advocate here because he's never really thought about this before.... (besides, my waste isn't a fraction of what's generated by the deer, fish, ducks, geese, turkeys, birds, and squirrels around the house...nevermind my dog) Wild animals don't tend to carry the same waterborne diseases as humans. |
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Most of the time a code is created after a lesson learned from a mishap or disaster. Just like most gun laws, right?
Here's what I don't get: If I live in a free country, why can't I build whatever sort of shack I want - then if the local electric company refuses me power, or I can't get water, well, that's their business; same with Insurance companies. That way, the desire to do business with others would drive me to build to their own specs, and I could build to what they saw as needed minimums. The rest of the structure would be left to my own desires. Isn't that how a free, capitalist society works? Why should this be any different? If you don't have a proper septic system built to code, your shit will run downstream and can affect others. Passing a law that states that my waste has to stay on my property, or must be piped into the public waste disposal system under certain criteria, sounds reasonable enough. But you sort of dodged the question, didn't you? <––playing devil's advocate here because he's never really thought about this before.... (besides, my waste isn't a fraction of what's generated by the deer, fish, ducks, geese, turkeys, birds, and squirrels around the house...nevermind my dog) I maintain my septic tank and drain field as I don't want my feces to come back to haunt me by flooding my yard. Has nothing to do with government, it's just the right thing to do. Most people do this. It's the 10% that don't who get the Nanny Staters and the NIMBY's cranked up into dogwhistle mode (asses puckeder up so tight that when they fart only dogs can hear them). |
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Living in a major earthquake zone, yes I support them. One word: Haiti. All of you living east of the rockies will wish you had homes built like they are out here when the next big quake levels your cities and towns. This. I've been through two major earthquakes in my life. There is a reason why San Francisco in 1989 or Olympia in 2001 did not look like Port Au Prince. I don't support the stupid building codes, though, that have nothing to do with safety. |
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Any other strawmen you want to toss out there to try and bolster your support for inviting more government into our lives? Somehow I don't think building codes are quite the same as eavesdropping on your telephone conversations. Intrusion into a free exchange of property between free individuals still fits the definition. I'm more worried about what my insurance company thinks than some government functionary. As it should be... |
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Ken Kern was an author and well-known proponent of owner built homes. "The Owner-Built Home" was his most popular book. He also had quite a bit of disdain for one-size-fits-all building codes.
Kern was killed in the collapse of an experimental, non-code building he was constructing. http://www.ibiblio.org/london/renewable-energy/mailarchives/greenbuilding/0418.html |
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Living in a major earthquake zone, yes I support them. One word: Haiti. All of you living east of the rockies will wish you had homes built like they are out here when the next big quake levels your cities and towns. This. I've been through two major earthquakes in my life. There is a reason why San Francisco in 1989 or Olympia in 2001 did not look like Port Au Prince. I don't support the stupid building codes, though, that have nothing to do with safety. I don't support living in earthquake prone areas. Although if I did, I'd be damn sure my house could survive whatever the nearby fault could toss at it. Again, why does this need to involve the government? Comparing us to Haiti is specious at best. Like comparing the relative cornering ability of a Yugo verses a McLaren F1. |
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Structural and Fire safety...YES!! But not all this "The sink will be so many inches from........." The bath tub will be yea long and yea deep.........."
That annoying shit is just that SHIT! They do not need to pin prick the design until it is something nobody wants, if does not have to do with Building integrity or Fire safety, IT's none of their business what they think you should do...IT'S YOUR house. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Most of the time a code is created after a lesson learned from a mishap or disaster. Just like most gun laws, right? Here's what I don't get: If I live in a free country, why can't I build whatever sort of shack I want - then if the local electric company refuses me power, or I can't get water, well, that's their business; same with Insurance companies. That way, the desire to do business with others would drive me to build to their own specs, and I could build to what they saw as needed minimums. The rest of the structure would be left to my own desires. Isn't that how a free, capitalist society works? Why should this be any different? Because the power company WON'T refuse power because they want money. Also, I see your point but what about 99% of the population that doesn't know shit about wiring? What happens when their contractor does a crappy job or they buy a house with crappy wiring that they don't know about....then their house burns down... |
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