[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SHTF Reality Check (Page 1 of 7)
Posted: 1/2/2010 11:04:25 AM EDT
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I go the OathKeeper board from time to time and saw this, written by a US Army CSM who had joined OK, and has since decided to leave the group due to some disagreement at the national level. I thought that this was as good a place as any to post it for discussion.
Instantly tell the militia guys to go the Hell away. No militia in the world is going to stand up against an M1 or an Apache gunship. You should always be prepared to defend your home against a roving band of thugs should the economy collapse or something, but the average old, worn out fat assed military retiree or one term REMF who didn't get to do Hooah stuff and his gun club buddies are going to stand up to a well trained squad of infantry. Real honest to God soldiers will laugh at you and not bother joining your group.
If you must, get yourself a .22 with a decent scope, a .45 or .40 and a Mossberg 12 gauge if you live in the city and you think the SHTF scenario is going to happen, learn to use them well and that will be all you need. If it does happen there will be plenty of free weapons laying around that you can just pick up for free. If you live in the country, you no doubt have a good deer rifle with a scope. Be more concerned about food and water. Forget buying MREs and such nonsense, most canned food lasts for a couple of years. Rotate it out as you eat it and grow a garden. Have some silver on hand and other stuff to barter with. Seems to make some sense. 
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Quoted: thats bc it doesI go the OathKeeper board from time to time and saw this, written by a US Army CSM who had joined OK, and has since decided to leave the group due to some disagreement at the national level. I thought that this was as good a place as any to post it for discussion. Instantly tell the militia guys to go the Hell away. No militia in the world is going to stand up against an M1 or an Apache gunship. You should always be prepared to defend your home against a roving band of thugs should the economy collapse or something, but the average old, worn out fat assed military retiree or one term REMF who didn't get to do Hooah stuff and his gun club buddies are going to stand up to a well trained squad of infantry. Real honest to God soldiers will laugh at you and not bother joining your group. If you must, get yourself a .22 with a decent scope, a .45 or .40 and a Mossberg 12 gauge if you live in the city and you think the SHTF scenario is going to happen, learn to use them well and that will be all you need. If it does happen there will be plenty of free weapons laying around that you can just pick up for free. If you live in the country, you no doubt have a good deer rifle with a scope. Be more concerned about food and water. Forget buying MREs and such nonsense, most canned food lasts for a couple of years. Rotate it out as you eat it and grow a garden. Have some silver on hand and other stuff to barter with. Seems to make some sense. |
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One wonders why he thinks American citizens (the villified militia) would be shooting at the US Military. Is that because he sees us citizens as the enemy?!
Harrumph. Whatever. I'm going out 1911 shooting in the California desert's perfect 60 degree weather. I hope to use up all my stocks of 200 gr. LSWC cast reloads. CHEERS |
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Quoted: I go the OathKeeper board from time to time and saw this, written by a US Army CSM who had joined OK, and has since decided to leave the group due to some disagreement at the national level. I thought that this was as good a place as any to post it for discussion. Instantly tell the militia guys to go the Hell away. No militia in the world is going to stand up against an M1 or an Apache gunship. You should always be prepared to defend your home against a roving band of thugs should the economy collapse or something, but the average old, worn out fat assed military retiree or one term REMF who didn't get to do Hooah stuff and his gun club buddies are going to stand up to a well trained squad of infantry. Real honest to God soldiers will laugh at you and not bother joining your group. If you must, get yourself a .22 with a decent scope, a .45 or .40 and a Mossberg 12 gauge if you live in the city and you think the SHTF scenario is going to happen, learn to use them well and that will be all you need. If it does happen there will be plenty of free weapons laying around that you can just pick up for free. If you live in the country, you no doubt have a good deer rifle with a scope. Be more concerned about food and water. Forget buying MREs and such nonsense, most canned food lasts for a couple of years. Rotate it out as you eat it and grow a garden. Have some silver on hand and other stuff to barter with. Seems to make some sense. Are we winning in Afghanistan? |
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thats bc it does
I go the OathKeeper board from time to time and saw this, written by a US Army CSM who had joined OK, and has since decided to leave the group due to some disagreement at the national level. I thought that this was as good a place as any to post it for discussion. Instantly tell the militia guys to go the Hell away. No militia in the world is going to stand up against an M1 or an Apache gunship. You should always be prepared to defend your home against a roving band of thugs should the economy collapse or something, but the average old, worn out fat assed military retiree or one term REMF who didn't get to do Hooah stuff and his gun club buddies are going to stand up to a well trained squad of infantry. Real honest to God soldiers will laugh at you and not bother joining your group.
If you must, get yourself a .22 with a decent scope, a .45 or .40 and a Mossberg 12 gauge if you live in the city and you think the SHTF scenario is going to happen, learn to use them well and that will be all you need. If it does happen there will be plenty of free weapons laying around that you can just pick up for free. If you live in the country, you no doubt have a good deer rifle with a scope. Be more concerned about food and water. Forget buying MREs and such nonsense, most canned food lasts for a couple of years. Rotate it out as you eat it and grow a garden. Have some silver on hand and other stuff to barter with. Seems to make some sense. I dont agree with the part in red, but I do agree with most of what he is saying. No guy with a rifle, or group of guys, is going to take out a tank or an apache, however I have not heard many people saying they would take one on either. That being said I think food, water, shelter be first order of business. Then medicine, firearms, ect on down the list. I think a semiauto rifle has more use than a 12 gauge for self defense but that is just me. |
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Yeah...most people don't quite "get" what he's saying. They think they're badass b/c they've bought themselves a "real assault rifle". There's more to fighting than having a rifle and even knowing how to use it. Being in shape helps. Have a good group that's on the same wave length and can operate tactically together helps.
But all that's trumped by armor and helicopters pretty quickly. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I go the OathKeeper board from time to time and saw this, written by a US Army CSM who had joined OK, and has since decided to leave the group due to some disagreement at the national level. I thought that this was as good a place as any to post it for discussion. Instantly tell the militia guys to go the Hell away. No militia in the world is going to stand up against an M1 or an Apache gunship. You should always be prepared to defend your home against a roving band of thugs should the economy collapse or something, but the average old, worn out fat assed military retiree or one term REMF who didn't get to do Hooah stuff and his gun club buddies are going to stand up to a well trained squad of infantry. Real honest to God soldiers will laugh at you and not bother joining your group. If you must, get yourself a .22 with a decent scope, a .45 or .40 and a Mossberg 12 gauge if you live in the city and you think the SHTF scenario is going to happen, learn to use them well and that will be all you need. If it does happen there will be plenty of free weapons laying around that you can just pick up for free. If you live in the country, you no doubt have a good deer rifle with a scope. Be more concerned about food and water. Forget buying MREs and such nonsense, most canned food lasts for a couple of years. Rotate it out as you eat it and grow a garden. Have some silver on hand and other stuff to barter with. Seems to make some sense. Are we winning in Afghanistan? Apples to oranges, I would suggest. |
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I go the OathKeeper board from time to time and saw this, written by a US Army CSM who had joined OK, and has since decided to leave the group due to some disagreement at the national level. I thought that this was as good a place as any to post it for discussion. Instantly tell the militia guys to go the Hell away. No militia in the world is going to stand up against an M1 or an Apache gunship. You should always be prepared to defend your home against a roving band of thugs should the economy collapse or something, but the average old, worn out fat assed military retiree or one term REMF who didn't get to do Hooah stuff and his gun club buddies are going to stand up to a well trained squad of infantry. Real honest to God soldiers will laugh at you and not bother joining your group.
If you must, get yourself a .22 with a decent scope, a .45 or .40 and a Mossberg 12 gauge if you live in the city and you think the SHTF scenario is going to happen, learn to use them well and that will be all you need. If it does happen there will be plenty of free weapons laying around that you can just pick up for free. If you live in the country, you no doubt have a good deer rifle with a scope. Be more concerned about food and water. Forget buying MREs and such nonsense, most canned food lasts for a couple of years. Rotate it out as you eat it and grow a garden. Have some silver on hand and other stuff to barter with. Seems to make some sense. Are we winning in Afghanistan? Apples to oranges, I would suggest. Unless militias around the US are starting to get RPGs, Dshka, 23/30mm and anti-tank mines 
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I go the OathKeeper board from time to time and saw this, written by a US Army CSM who had joined OK, and has since decided to leave the group due to some disagreement at the national level. I thought that this was as good a place as any to post it for discussion. Instantly tell the militia guys to go the Hell away. No militia in the world is going to stand up against an M1 or an Apache gunship. You should always be prepared to defend your home against a roving band of thugs should the economy collapse or something, but the average old, worn out fat assed military retiree or one term REMF who didn't get to do Hooah stuff and his gun club buddies are going to stand up to a well trained squad of infantry. Real honest to God soldiers will laugh at you and not bother joining your group. If you must, get yourself a .22 with a decent scope, a .45 or .40 and a Mossberg 12 gauge if you live in the city and you think the SHTF scenario is going to happen, learn to use them well and that will be all you need. If it does happen there will be plenty of free weapons laying around that you can just pick up for free. If you live in the country, you no doubt have a good deer rifle with a scope. Be more concerned about food and water. Forget buying MREs and such nonsense, most canned food lasts for a couple of years. Rotate it out as you eat it and grow a garden. Have some silver on hand and other stuff to barter with. Seems to make some sense. Are we winning in Afghanistan? Apples to oranges, I would suggest. Unless militias around the US are starting to get RPGs, Dshka, 23/30mm and anti-tank mines Exactly. I also don't think people in this country would be so willing to use their own children as shields. I tend to think that in a war against the US populace, hands of the military would not be as tied as they are in Iraq and Afghanistan now. If we're up against UN forces, even less. There are people all over the world who fantasize about coming to the US and just laying our entire populace to waste. A lot of people think we "have it coming". |
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I go the OathKeeper board from time to time and saw this, written by a US Army CSM who had joined OK, and has since decided to leave the group due to some disagreement at the national level. I thought that this was as good a place as any to post it for discussion. Instantly tell the militia guys to go the Hell away. No militia in the world is going to stand up against an M1 or an Apache gunship. You should always be prepared to defend your home against a roving band of thugs should the economy collapse or something, but the average old, worn out fat assed military retiree or one term REMF who didn't get to do Hooah stuff and his gun club buddies are going to stand up to a well trained squad of infantry. Real honest to God soldiers will laugh at you and not bother joining your group.
If you must, get yourself a .22 with a decent scope, a .45 or .40 and a Mossberg 12 gauge if you live in the city and you think the SHTF scenario is going to happen, learn to use them well and that will be all you need. If it does happen there will be plenty of free weapons laying around that you can just pick up for free. If you live in the country, you no doubt have a good deer rifle with a scope. Be more concerned about food and water. Forget buying MREs and such nonsense, most canned food lasts for a couple of years. Rotate it out as you eat it and grow a garden. Have some silver on hand and other stuff to barter with. Seems to make some sense. Are we winning in Afghanistan? Apples to oranges, I would suggest. Unless militias around the US are starting to get RPGs, Dshka, 23/30mm and anti-tank mines Like the SM in We Were Soldiers said "There'll be plenty of 'em lying around on the ground when the time comes." Civilian resistance forces have had a long history of success in conflicts throughout the world. Look at Vietnam, France, and, yes, Afghanistan to start. |
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I'd rather have 6 months of food & water with a 10/22 than a $3k safe queen NFA toy and 100 loaded mags ready to go, but with nothing to eat or drink.
Proximity to other people is key aspect of preparation....SHTF looks different depending on the population density, available resources, and your knowledge of the region you will be in. Weapons are great, but given the landscape of things one needs to prepare for, guns & ammo are a small part of the greater plan. |
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Quoted: In Vietnam and Afghanistan, the "resistance" had wealthy superpower sponsors. That's not likely to happen in an instance in the US.Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I go the OathKeeper board from time to time and saw this, written by a US Army CSM who had joined OK, and has since decided to leave the group due to some disagreement at the national level. I thought that this was as good a place as any to post it for discussion. Instantly tell the militia guys to go the Hell away. No militia in the world is going to stand up against an M1 or an Apache gunship. You should always be prepared to defend your home against a roving band of thugs should the economy collapse or something, but the average old, worn out fat assed military retiree or one term REMF who didn't get to do Hooah stuff and his gun club buddies are going to stand up to a well trained squad of infantry. Real honest to God soldiers will laugh at you and not bother joining your group. If you must, get yourself a .22 with a decent scope, a .45 or .40 and a Mossberg 12 gauge if you live in the city and you think the SHTF scenario is going to happen, learn to use them well and that will be all you need. If it does happen there will be plenty of free weapons laying around that you can just pick up for free. If you live in the country, you no doubt have a good deer rifle with a scope. Be more concerned about food and water. Forget buying MREs and such nonsense, most canned food lasts for a couple of years. Rotate it out as you eat it and grow a garden. Have some silver on hand and other stuff to barter with. Seems to make some sense. Are we winning in Afghanistan? Apples to oranges, I would suggest. Unless militias around the US are starting to get RPGs, Dshka, 23/30mm and anti-tank mines Like the SM in We Were Soldiers said "There'll be plenty of 'em lying around on the ground when the time comes." Civilian resistance forces have had a long history of success in conflicts throughout the world. Look at Vietnam, France, and, yes, Afghanistan to start. |
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I go the OathKeeper board from time to time and saw this, written by a US Army CSM who had joined OK, and has since decided to leave the group due to some disagreement at the national level. I thought that this was as good a place as any to post it for discussion. Instantly tell the militia guys to go the Hell away. No militia in the world is going to stand up against an M1 or an Apache gunship. You should always be prepared to defend your home against a roving band of thugs should the economy collapse or something, but the average old, worn out fat assed military retiree or one term REMF who didn't get to do Hooah stuff and his gun club buddies are going to stand up to a well trained squad of infantry. Real honest to God soldiers will laugh at you and not bother joining your group.
If you must, get yourself a .22 with a decent scope, a .45 or .40 and a Mossberg 12 gauge if you live in the city and you think the SHTF scenario is going to happen, learn to use them well and that will be all you need. If it does happen there will be plenty of free weapons laying around that you can just pick up for free. If you live in the country, you no doubt have a good deer rifle with a scope. Be more concerned about food and water. Forget buying MREs and such nonsense, most canned food lasts for a couple of years. Rotate it out as you eat it and grow a garden. Have some silver on hand and other stuff to barter with. Seems to make some sense. Are we winning in Afghanistan? Apples to oranges, I would suggest. It is apples to oranges because there are way more people here willing to fight and the military would be much less inclined to kill other American citizens. Do you honestly think that soldiers from Texas will come down here and fight other Texans? It'll never happen. |
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I go the OathKeeper board from time to time and saw this, written by a US Army CSM who had joined OK, and has since decided to leave the group due to some disagreement at the national level. I thought that this was as good a place as any to post it for discussion. Instantly tell the militia guys to go the Hell away. No militia in the world is going to stand up against an M1 or an Apache gunship. You should always be prepared to defend your home against a roving band of thugs should the economy collapse or something, but the average old, worn out fat assed military retiree or one term REMF who didn't get to do Hooah stuff and his gun club buddies are going to stand up to a well trained squad of infantry. Real honest to God soldiers will laugh at you and not bother joining your group.
If you must, get yourself a .22 with a decent scope, a .45 or .40 and a Mossberg 12 gauge if you live in the city and you think the SHTF scenario is going to happen, learn to use them well and that will be all you need. If it does happen there will be plenty of free weapons laying around that you can just pick up for free. If you live in the country, you no doubt have a good deer rifle with a scope. Be more concerned about food and water. Forget buying MREs and such nonsense, most canned food lasts for a couple of years. Rotate it out as you eat it and grow a garden. Have some silver on hand and other stuff to barter with. Seems to make some sense. Are we winning in Afghanistan? Apples to oranges, I would suggest. Unless militias around the US are starting to get RPGs, Dshka, 23/30mm and anti-tank mines But there are more of us who have been there and learned lessons from insurgents. It's easy to wire up a 155 to make an IED, but you don't need a 155 to make an IED. By and large most of the insurgents in Iraq or A-stan had "Allah" guiding their bullets, or so they were told. We have skill. But like he said, the fat arm chair commando doesn't really stand a chance. But I'd still encourage them to be as badass as they want to be. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I go the OathKeeper board from time to time and saw this, written by a US Army CSM who had joined OK, and has since decided to leave the group due to some disagreement at the national level. I thought that this was as good a place as any to post it for discussion. Instantly tell the militia guys to go the Hell away. No militia in the world is going to stand up against an M1 or an Apache gunship. You should always be prepared to defend your home against a roving band of thugs should the economy collapse or something, but the average old, worn out fat assed military retiree or one term REMF who didn't get to do Hooah stuff and his gun club buddies are going to stand up to a well trained squad of infantry. Real honest to God soldiers will laugh at you and not bother joining your group. If you must, get yourself a .22 with a decent scope, a .45 or .40 and a Mossberg 12 gauge if you live in the city and you think the SHTF scenario is going to happen, learn to use them well and that will be all you need. If it does happen there will be plenty of free weapons laying around that you can just pick up for free. If you live in the country, you no doubt have a good deer rifle with a scope. Be more concerned about food and water. Forget buying MREs and such nonsense, most canned food lasts for a couple of years. Rotate it out as you eat it and grow a garden. Have some silver on hand and other stuff to barter with. Seems to make some sense. Are we winning in Afghanistan? Apples to oranges, I would suggest. It is apples to oranges because there are way more people here willing to fight and the military would be much less inclined to kill other American citizens. Do you honestly think that soldiers from Texas will come down here and fight other Texans? It'll never happen. EXACTLY! |
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Exactly what I would expect a US Army CSM to say. Says the person with a navy avitar. Actually, had nothing to do with it. Not all of those in uniform have taken the time to completely think out their stance on such issues or even reason out their reactions. Some don't even know the basics of recent history. I won't criticize the man for his opines. It just does not surprise me that he said them. 
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I go the OathKeeper board from time to time and saw this, written by a US Army CSM who had joined OK, and has since decided to leave the group due to some disagreement at the national level. I thought that this was as good a place as any to post it for discussion. Instantly tell the militia guys to go the Hell away. No militia in the world is going to stand up against an M1 or an Apache gunship. You should always be prepared to defend your home against a roving band of thugs should the economy collapse or something, but the average old, worn out fat assed military retiree or one term REMF who didn't get to do Hooah stuff and his gun club buddies are going to stand up to a well trained squad of infantry. Real honest to God soldiers will laugh at you and not bother joining your group. If you must, get yourself a .22 with a decent scope, a .45 or .40 and a Mossberg 12 gauge if you live in the city and you think the SHTF scenario is going to happen, learn to use them well and that will be all you need. If it does happen there will be plenty of free weapons laying around that you can just pick up for free. If you live in the country, you no doubt have a good deer rifle with a scope. Be more concerned about food and water. Forget buying MREs and such nonsense, most canned food lasts for a couple of years. Rotate it out as you eat it and grow a garden. Have some silver on hand and other stuff to barter with. Seems to make some sense. Are we winning in Afghanistan? Apples to oranges, I would suggest. It is apples to oranges because there are way more people here willing to fight and the military would be much less inclined to kill other American citizens. Do you honestly think that soldiers from Texas will come down here and fight other Texans? It'll never happen. Then they will send the units from different states. The rule of law does not apply to dictatorships. They could find some way to demonize whomever is being targetted, and told that the guard in that state cannot be trusted because of sympathizers. They can manipulate the media, and plenty of people will believe it. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I go the OathKeeper board from time to time and saw this, written by a US Army CSM who had joined OK, and has since decided to leave the group due to some disagreement at the national level. I thought that this was as good a place as any to post it for discussion. Instantly tell the militia guys to go the Hell away. No militia in the world is going to stand up against an M1 or an Apache gunship. You should always be prepared to defend your home against a roving band of thugs should the economy collapse or something, but the average old, worn out fat assed military retiree or one term REMF who didn't get to do Hooah stuff and his gun club buddies are going to stand up to a well trained squad of infantry. Real honest to God soldiers will laugh at you and not bother joining your group. If you must, get yourself a .22 with a decent scope, a .45 or .40 and a Mossberg 12 gauge if you live in the city and you think the SHTF scenario is going to happen, learn to use them well and that will be all you need. If it does happen there will be plenty of free weapons laying around that you can just pick up for free. If you live in the country, you no doubt have a good deer rifle with a scope. Be more concerned about food and water. Forget buying MREs and such nonsense, most canned food lasts for a couple of years. Rotate it out as you eat it and grow a garden. Have some silver on hand and other stuff to barter with. Seems to make some sense. Are we winning in Afghanistan? Apples to oranges, I would suggest. Unless militias around the US are starting to get RPGs, Dshka, 23/30mm and anti-tank mines But there are more of us who have been there and learned lessons from insurgents. It's easy to wire up a 155 to make an IED, but you don't need a 155 to make an IED. By and large most of the insurgents in Iraq or A-stan had "Allah" guiding their bullets, or so they were told. We have skill. But like he said, the fat arm chair commando doesn't really stand a chance. But I'd still encourage them to be as badass as they want to be. But I think the guy is expecting that the American will fight head on with the military. That won't happen.......it will be like any other war we have entered into over the last 40 years. The government soldiers that choose to fight will not be able to tell the good guys from the bad guys until it is to late. |
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I go the OathKeeper board from time to time and saw this, written by a US Army CSM who had joined OK, and has since decided to leave the group due to some disagreement at the national level. I thought that this was as good a place as any to post it for discussion. Instantly tell the militia guys to go the Hell away. No militia in the world is going to stand up against an M1 or an Apache gunship. You should always be prepared to defend your home against a roving band of thugs should the economy collapse or something, but the average old, worn out fat assed military retiree or one term REMF who didn't get to do Hooah stuff and his gun club buddies are going to stand up to a well trained squad of infantry. Real honest to God soldiers will laugh at you and not bother joining your group.
If you must, get yourself a .22 with a decent scope, a .45 or .40 and a Mossberg 12 gauge if you live in the city and you think the SHTF scenario is going to happen, learn to use them well and that will be all you need. If it does happen there will be plenty of free weapons laying around that you can just pick up for free. If you live in the country, you no doubt have a good deer rifle with a scope. Be more concerned about food and water. Forget buying MREs and such nonsense, most canned food lasts for a couple of years. Rotate it out as you eat it and grow a garden. Have some silver on hand and other stuff to barter with. Seems to make some sense. Are we winning in Afghanistan? Apples to oranges, I would suggest. It is apples to oranges because there are way more people here willing to fight and the military would be much less inclined to kill other American citizens. Do you honestly think that soldiers from Texas will come down here and fight other Texans? It'll never happen. Plus 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have several family members and lots of friends in the service and they would not fight against us. |
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It is pretty obvious that it would be a critical mistake for civilians to ever go head to head with any professional soldier no matter if he were on foot, in a tracked vehicle, tank, or helicopter. If you find yourself ever in that situation, you have already made your mistakes. The best way to survive a firefight is to not be there in the first place!
All that said, the poster who thinks that the US .mil will have an easier time/be able to hit us harder than they do in the sandbox is only half right. If things were to ever get so bad in this country that the .gov was using the full force of the .mil to quell the population, they would absolutely NEED to pull the gloves off. Americans, even fat ones with a deer rifle, are NOT the same as an insurgent in Iraq or Afghanistan. We aren't fatalistic, we use our sights, we know about how Americans think and the technology we might use against insurgents, and our veterans/prior service guys will have invaluable insight to how the .mil works. You don't kill the Apache, you kill the guy who fuels it, the guy who maintains it, and the guy who flies it. THAT is how you successfully prosecute an insurgency. |
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Maybe it's the context that is missing, or maybe he felt non-military personnel had no usefulness to the OathKeepers. That little snippet indicates his frustration, but is not very clear regarding what would make him happy.
I don't know. It depends on who he is calling the militia. I have come to think of all civilians as the militia. Perhaps he has a certain type of Sgt. Sugarcookie in mind. I'll agree that I have no desire to go head-on against a dozen trained soldiers with a dozen gun club buddies. That would be suicidal. He's right about the food and water, although I'll bet he only has half a clue and no pantry to speak of. Wonder how he expects all those city folk to have a garden that would support a family? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I go the OathKeeper board from time to time and saw this, written by a US Army CSM who had joined OK, and has since decided to leave the group due to some disagreement at the national level. I thought that this was as good a place as any to post it for discussion. Instantly tell the militia guys to go the Hell away. No militia in the world is going to stand up against an M1 or an Apache gunship. You should always be prepared to defend your home against a roving band of thugs should the economy collapse or something, but the average old, worn out fat assed military retiree or one term REMF who didn't get to do Hooah stuff and his gun club buddies are going to stand up to a well trained squad of infantry. Real honest to God soldiers will laugh at you and not bother joining your group. If you must, get yourself a .22 with a decent scope, a .45 or .40 and a Mossberg 12 gauge if you live in the city and you think the SHTF scenario is going to happen, learn to use them well and that will be all you need. If it does happen there will be plenty of free weapons laying around that you can just pick up for free. If you live in the country, you no doubt have a good deer rifle with a scope. Be more concerned about food and water. Forget buying MREs and such nonsense, most canned food lasts for a couple of years. Rotate it out as you eat it and grow a garden. Have some silver on hand and other stuff to barter with. Seems to make some sense. Are we winning in Afghanistan? Apples to oranges, I would suggest. It is apples to oranges because there are way more people here willing to fight and the military would be much less inclined to kill other American citizens. Do you honestly think that soldiers from Texas will come down here and fight other Texans? It'll never happen. Plus 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have several family members and lots of friends in the service and they would not fight against us. They aren't fighting against law abiding US citizens. They are aiding local law enforcement against terrorist elements that are threatening liberties. Why, they'll be fighting against the same people Timothy McVeigh hung out with. Its for the good of the nation that these individuals be apprehended. See how easy it is to spin? |
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context, gentlemen. was this statement in response to a real prepper, or to a "survivalist" ranting about governmental takeovers? i strongly suspect that it was the latter. we have a number of both on this board, and there is little doubt who is more credible and level-headed.
don't mistake me––i've developed plans for resisting a hostile gov which throws the military against citizens, but i bear in mind three things. 1. the chance of this happening is infinitessimally small. 2. if it does happen, i'll have almost no chance of survival. 3. sometimes you have to fight even if you can't win. sometimes, the only possible victory is the refusal to surrender. |
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I'd rather have 6 months of food & water with a 10/22 than a $3k safe queen NFA toy and 100 loaded mags ready to go, but with nothing to eat or drink. Proximity to other people is key aspect of preparation....SHTF looks different depending on the population density, available resources, and your knowledge of the region you will be in. Weapons are great, but given the landscape of things one needs to prepare for, guns & ammo are a small part of the greater plan. this man is a real prepper, not a fantasy survivalist. 
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I go the OathKeeper board from time to time and saw this, written by a US Army CSM who had joined OK, and has since decided to leave the group due to some disagreement at the national level. I thought that this was as good a place as any to post it for discussion. Instantly tell the militia guys to go the Hell away. No militia in the world is going to stand up against an M1 or an Apache gunship. You should always be prepared to defend your home against a roving band of thugs should the economy collapse or something, but the average old, worn out fat assed military retiree or one term REMF who didn't get to do Hooah stuff and his gun club buddies are going to stand up to a well trained squad of infantry. Real honest to God soldiers will laugh at you and not bother joining your group.
If you must, get yourself a .22 with a decent scope, a .45 or .40 and a Mossberg 12 gauge if you live in the city and you think the SHTF scenario is going to happen, learn to use them well and that will be all you need. If it does happen there will be plenty of free weapons laying around that you can just pick up for free. If you live in the country, you no doubt have a good deer rifle with a scope. Be more concerned about food and water. Forget buying MREs and such nonsense, most canned food lasts for a couple of years. Rotate it out as you eat it and grow a garden. Have some silver on hand and other stuff to barter with. Seems to make some sense. Are we winning in Afghanistan? Apples to oranges, I would suggest. It is apples to oranges because there are way more people here willing to fight and the military would be much less inclined to kill other American citizens. Do you honestly think that soldiers from Texas will come down here and fight other Texans? It'll never happen. Plus 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have several family members and lots of friends in the service and they would not fight against us. They aren't fighting against law abiding US citizens. They are aiding local law enforcement against terrorist elements that are threatening liberties. Why, they'll be fighting against the same people Timothy McVeigh hung out with. Its for the good of the nation that these individuals be apprehended. See how easy it is to spin? True, didn't think about it like that. |
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He has a couple of good points, but loses it.
1) Okay, he can accept the fact that economic/societal collapse are possibilities. But he thinks a deer rifle (rural) or 12 gauge (urban) are enough to deal with that? I'm sorry Sgt Major but you are wrong. A week into that happening the world would be dominated by organized gangs, some gangs are already organized and their members have military, even combat, experience. The clear answer is to have your own "gang," with supplies and training. 2) I have military experience, and I can tell you that the last thing I would ever want to do is face an M1 or an Apache. I didn't want to face a T72 or Hind, even when I had better hardware on my side. But he seems completely ignorant of the principles of guerilla warfare. The US has the most powerful military force in the world had to send almost half of our troops to subdue Iraq, and that was a rather unpopular insurgency. How big is the US again? There is no way that any military force on earth could subjugate the American people if it really came to that. He also completely ignores the thought that many, if not most, military members would not be willing to take up arms against neighbors and relatives. I don't think it would ever come to that, but if it did.... |
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Well... that's it. I'm gonna sell my AR's, M1A, etc, etc and just keep one 10/22, shotgun, and maybe a pistol. Cause I read a thread where some dood said I shouldn't waste my time preparing for many different scenarios requiring many different tools. Will just get an Xbox, bunch of games, and load-up on junk food with the proceeds...
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I dont agree with the part in red, but I do agree with most of what he is saying. No guy with a rifle, or group of guys, is going to take out a tank or an apache, however I have not heard many people saying they would take one on either. 
History might suggest otherwise when those group of guys feel they have nothing left to lose. The heroes of the Warsaw Ghetto uprising appear to show that in certain circumstances some People may choose to resist, with some success... |
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You don't kill the Apache, you kill the guy who fuels it, the guy who maintains it, and the guy who flies it. THAT is how you successfully prosecute an insurgency. There is also a HUGE difference between operating that Apache/M1 from a base on the other side of the world and operating it in a war zone where your wife and children are at risk. |
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He has a couple of good points, but loses it. 1) Okay, he can accept the fact that economic/societal collapse are possibilities. But he thinks a deer rifle (rural) or 12 gauge (urban) are enough to deal with that? I'm sorry Sgt Major but you are wrong. A week into that happening the world would be dominated by organized gangs, some gangs are already organized and their members have military, even combat, experience. The clear answer is to have your own "gang," with supplies and training. 2) I have military experience, and I can tell you that the last thing I would ever want to do is face an M1 or an Apache. I didn't want to face a T72 or Hind, even when I had better hardware on my side. But he seems completely ignorant of the principles of guerilla warfare. The US has the most powerful military force in the world had to send almost half of our troops to subdue Iraq, and that was a rather unpopular insurgency. How big is the US again? There is no way that any military force on earth could subjugate the American people if it really came to that. He also completely ignores the thought that many, if not most, military members would not be willing to take up arms against neighbors and relatives. I don't think it would ever come to that, but if it did.... THIS!!!
and thank you for your service. 
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In Vietnam and Afghanistan, the "resistance" had wealthy superpower sponsors. That's not likely to happen in an instance in the US.
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I go the OathKeeper board from time to time and saw this, written by a US Army CSM who had joined OK, and has since decided to leave the group due to some disagreement at the national level. I thought that this was as good a place as any to post it for discussion. Instantly tell the militia guys to go the Hell away. No militia in the world is going to stand up against an M1 or an Apache gunship. You should always be prepared to defend your home against a roving band of thugs should the economy collapse or something, but the average old, worn out fat assed military retiree or one term REMF who didn't get to do Hooah stuff and his gun club buddies are going to stand up to a well trained squad of infantry. Real honest to God soldiers will laugh at you and not bother joining your group.
If you must, get yourself a .22 with a decent scope, a .45 or .40 and a Mossberg 12 gauge if you live in the city and you think the SHTF scenario is going to happen, learn to use them well and that will be all you need. If it does happen there will be plenty of free weapons laying around that you can just pick up for free. If you live in the country, you no doubt have a good deer rifle with a scope. Be more concerned about food and water. Forget buying MREs and such nonsense, most canned food lasts for a couple of years. Rotate it out as you eat it and grow a garden. Have some silver on hand and other stuff to barter with. Seems to make some sense. Are we winning in Afghanistan? Apples to oranges, I would suggest. Unless militias around the US are starting to get RPGs, Dshka, 23/30mm and anti-tank mines Like the SM in We Were Soldiers said "There'll be plenty of 'em lying around on the ground when the time comes." Civilian resistance forces have had a long history of success in conflicts throughout the world. Look at Vietnam, France, and, yes, Afghanistan to start. True, but on the other hand, civilians here have access to a lot more than peasants would without superpower help. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I go the OathKeeper board from time to time and saw this, written by a US Army CSM who had joined OK, and has since decided to leave the group due to some disagreement at the national level. I thought that this was as good a place as any to post it for discussion. Instantly tell the militia guys to go the Hell away. No militia in the world is going to stand up against an M1 or an Apache gunship. You should always be prepared to defend your home against a roving band of thugs should the economy collapse or something, but the average old, worn out fat assed military retiree or one term REMF who didn't get to do Hooah stuff and his gun club buddies are going to stand up to a well trained squad of infantry. Real honest to God soldiers will laugh at you and not bother joining your group. If you must, get yourself a .22 with a decent scope, a .45 or .40 and a Mossberg 12 gauge if you live in the city and you think the SHTF scenario is going to happen, learn to use them well and that will be all you need. If it does happen there will be plenty of free weapons laying around that you can just pick up for free. If you live in the country, you no doubt have a good deer rifle with a scope. Be more concerned about food and water. Forget buying MREs and such nonsense, most canned food lasts for a couple of years. Rotate it out as you eat it and grow a garden. Have some silver on hand and other stuff to barter with. Seems to make some sense. Are we winning in Afghanistan? Apples to oranges, I would suggest. It is apples to oranges because there are way more people here willing to fight and the military would be much less inclined to kill other American citizens. Do you honestly think that soldiers from Texas will come down here and fight other Texans? It'll never happen. Then they will send the units from different states. The rule of law does not apply to dictatorships. They could find some way to demonize whomever is being targetted, and told that the guard in that state cannot be trusted because of sympathizers. They can manipulate the media, and plenty of people will believe it. This is key. People often say "the military would disobey orders to attack civilians." And they are 100% correct, if it were going to be cut and dried like a politician saying "hey, go kill these civilians because we don't like them" or someone trying to take over and make himself dictator. I have no doubt that almost every member of the military would disobey such an order (a handful of people like Hasan being the exception). Not so when some group is tied to some horrible act, demonized by the government and media, and hated by a large portion of the public. The military will only be used in situations where much of the public would agree it is needed. And they wouldn't be "attacking US civilians", they'd be going up against "domestic terrorists" or "traitors" or whatever term is being used to describe them. Public opinion will support this use of the military to protect the US from our "domestic enemies." Foreign military personnel would be a whole different ballgame. You don't need overwhelming US public opinion support (and thus, most likely the opinion support of the US military personnel), you simply need troops willing to come here for "peace keeping" operations and a leader willing to call them in. |
| The only real chance of any revolution in this country would come from the actual barracks in the form of a coup, not some guys stocking up on canned food and xm193. Don't think it's not possible, today no, but in the relatively near future it is entirely possible. |
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I go the OathKeeper board from time to time and saw this, written by a US Army CSM who had joined OK, and has since decided to leave the group due to some disagreement at the national level. I thought that this was as good a place as any to post it for discussion. Instantly tell the militia guys to go the Hell away. No militia in the world is going to stand up against an M1 or an Apache gunship. You should always be prepared to defend your home against a roving band of thugs should the economy collapse or something, but the average old, worn out fat assed military retiree or one term REMF who didn't get to do Hooah stuff and his gun club buddies are going to stand up to a well trained squad of infantry. Real honest to God soldiers will laugh at you and not bother joining your group.
If you must, get yourself a .22 with a decent scope, a .45 or .40 and a Mossberg 12 gauge if you live in the city and you think the SHTF scenario is going to happen, learn to use them well and that will be all you need. If it does happen there will be plenty of free weapons laying around that you can just pick up for free. If you live in the country, you no doubt have a good deer rifle with a scope. Be more concerned about food and water. Forget buying MREs and such nonsense, most canned food lasts for a couple of years. Rotate it out as you eat it and grow a garden. Have some silver on hand and other stuff to barter with. Seems to make some sense. seems to be one of the usual generic statements. Who says M1 and Apaches are going to be used against Americans? Is this his own vision of SHTF? |
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You don't kill the Apache, you kill the guy who fuels it, the guy who maintains it, and the guy who flies it. THAT is how you successfully prosecute an insurgency. There is also a HUGE difference between operating that Apache/M1 from a base on the other side of the world and operating it in a war zone where your wife and children are at risk. IMO, the .mil is too smart for that. Higher ups would make it so that you weren't in combat with people that you were likely to sympathize with (friends, neighbors etc) so it is unlikely that your own family would be in the AO you were fighting in. There is some history to go by here,..... In Katrina, the JBT's that confiscated guns were all from far away states like California, New York etc. Local cops could have done it, even cops from neighboring states that came in to help, but in the end "foreign" JBT's who were less ideologically averse to doing the job were selected. In war, you aren't told much other than what to do, where to go and who to shoot at.. If you want to convince a man to kill for you, you have to convince him that the person he is going to kill is "not like him", less than human, and reinforce this with lots of propaganda showing how lowly and subhuman the enemy is. It's easier to start with people who already have some of this indoctrination or have a lack of kinship with the enemy. |
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I dont agree with the part in red, but I do agree with most of what he is saying. No guy with a rifle, or group of guys, is going to take out a tank or an apache, however I have not heard many people saying they would take one on either. http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/warsaw_uprising.jpg History might suggest otherwise when those group of guys feel they have nothing left to lose. The heroes of the Warsaw Ghetto uprising appear to show that in certain circumstances some People may choose to resist, with some success... They where not going up against M1's. Not saying that is not possible but I am not going to take on any modern tank with a rifle. I would not want to take on professional soldiers either. If there is a SHTF revolution I dont think it will be pretty. One thing I think the OP is missing however is the fact that groups like the Oath Takers do keep some people in the government in check by making them think twice about pushing certain agendas. I have no doubts in my mind that without people willing to stand up for their rights we would be much more like Europe and less of the country we are today. |
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You don't kill the Apache, you kill the guy who fuels it, the guy who maintains it, and the guy who flies it. THAT is how you successfully prosecute an insurgency. There is also a HUGE difference between operating that Apache/M1 from a base on the other side of the world and operating it in a war zone where your wife and children are at risk. IMO, the .mil is too smart for that. Higher ups would make it so that you weren't in combat with people that you were likely to sympathize with (friends, neighbors etc) so it is unlikely that your own family would be in the AO you were fighting in. There is some history to go by here,..... In Katrina, the JBT's that confiscated guns were all from far away states like California, New York etc. Local cops could have done it, even cops from neighboring states that came in to help, but in the end "foreign" JBT's who were less ideologically averse to doing the job were selected. In war, you aren't told much other than what to do, where to go and who to shoot at.. If you want to convince a man to kill for you, you have to convince him that the person he is going to kill is "not like him", less than human, and reinforce this with lots of propaganda showing how lowly and subhuman the enemy is. It's easier to start with people who already have some of this indoctrination or have a lack of kinship with the enemy. They will use units from different areas. The TNG will be used in LA. and vice versa. 97%+ of cops will side with whatever elected government is in power at the time. Being prosecuted, executed, and or losing your pension are strong motivators for LE and Mil lifers to do as they are ordered. Not to mention they will likely lose any sympathy quickly when the locals start shooting at them. |