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Link Posted: 2/28/2002 4:36:14 PM EDT
[#1]
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Nothing of consequence.
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Nuff said.
Link Posted: 2/28/2002 4:54:32 PM EDT
[#2]
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Why are the Afghan poppy fields still there?
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Why [b]shouldn't[/b] the Afghan poppy fields still be there?
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In light of the new ads about where do you think terrorists get their money....?
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Since the Taliban and al-Quaeda don't control Afghanistan anymore, they won't be making much money off the poppy fields there.  

Would it be nice if those farmers were growing food instead of drugs?  Yes, but I don't see how it would be cost-effective to try to make that happen.  The US has already spent years of effort and billions of dollars to stop drug production in South America without having much of an impact.
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Well, who[b]is[/b]making money off those fields?
And how cost effective is the War on Drugs? Why not napalm the entire crop?
Link Posted: 2/28/2002 4:59:57 PM EDT
[#3]
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JD123,
Did you graduate high school?  I think you win the award for the most horrible grammar and spelling that I have ever seen on this site.  quote]

Sorry I think I won that one a long time ago! I think it was in June of 2001. Anyway lets stop the flame war here I don't want this to be locked out because people are insulting each other. Let's just respect everyone option and not flame people. This goes for everyone.
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Hear! Hear!
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you're telling the wrong people to quit the flaming and show some respect there.  
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ARlady, my post was merely in support of tayous1's call for order.
Link Posted: 2/28/2002 9:01:55 PM EDT
[#4]
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JD123,
Did you graduate high school?  I think you win the award for the most horrible grammar and spelling that I have ever seen on this site.  quote]

Sorry I think I won that one a long time ago! I think it was in June of 2001. Anyway lets stop the flame war here I don't want this to be locked out because people are insulting each other. Let's just respect everyone option and not flame people. This goes for everyone.
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Hear! Hear!
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you're telling the wrong people to quit the flaming and show some respect there.  
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ARLady I'm telling everyone to stop flaming. I don't care how started. Someone need's to be the bigger person here and just let the person be. It always feel's better to let a person be a troll then to throw gas on the fire.

jd123, I'm not taking ARladys or anyones side on this at all. I just don't want this post to be locked out. If people are having a problem with what you say then back your words up with fact. It's better to let a person know they are wrong by showing them the facts then it is to straight out say to the wold there wrong . You know why because you know they are and they know they are.

As I said I'm not taking anyones side here if someone thinks I'm then write me. I respect ever ones options because it is there right to speak there mind. NO ONE has the right to belittle or insult someone because of what they feel or say. WE ALL MUST RESPECT EACH OTHER.
Link Posted: 2/28/2002 9:14:30 PM EDT
[#5]
all i know is the america needs to do less bitching and more killing
Link Posted: 2/28/2002 10:14:41 PM EDT
[#6]
Posted by Jarhead_22:

So you're either saying that I imgagined those planes flying into the World Trade Center, or that the US government caused them to fly into the World Trade Center. Which is it?

--------------------

Let's see, the CIA/intelligence community trained, funded, and created Osama Bin Laden, hence the intelligence apparatus did in fact do this. In addition, the events of 9-11-01 simply could not have happened without willful, conscious help from both this administration, intelligence community, and several arms of our current government both elected and un-elected.

It was a planned event ala Columbine and all the high school shooting designed to alarm the public complete with pre-determined patsies (guns, Osama, Oswald, etc) and then come in and appease the masses with Constitution and BOR pillaging legislation.

Of course with spilling the blood of innocents, and the images of the events of 9-11-01 so burned into most folks minds, there is a level of trauma-based programming and emotionalism which prohibits most folks from ever seeing through the lie. Which lie? How about this little mind-twister--If the intelligence apparatus missed the planning and carrying out of an event of this scale completely, how in the hell can they 3 hours later have the complete bios of every single "terrorist" on those planes? Doesn't make sense, cannot make sense. The trauma of seeing those planes take out some of the largest buildings on US soil and killing all those folks precludes the minds of most folks from ever realizing the lies inherent in the official story, though.

I wlll be called paranoid, ignorant, unpatriotic and all other manner of things for saying so--I don't give a damn. I will leave with the following quote that sums up my feeling.

"Even if you are in a minority of one, the truth is still the truth".  Ghandi

Link Posted: 3/1/2002 12:33:43 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:

Let's see, the CIA/intelligence community trained, funded, and created Osama Bin Laden, hence the intelligence apparatus did in fact do this.
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Okay, show us the proof. And I don't mean refer us to some conspiracy-minded website that only gives their speculations as the proof itself.

Osama was in "the rear with the gear" during the Soviet's occupation of Afghanistan (as a wealthy diletante). All the key people of that time: American, Afghani, Pakistani and Russian say he was a nobody. This idea that we "made him" is a joke. The CIA dealt with the big people, like Haq and Masood, who would later be assassinated by the Taliban and Al-Quaida.

The Taliban {meaning islamic students) were kids during the occupation, and living in refugee camps in Pakistan. Hardly our creation. We may have disengaged after the Soviet Pull-out, but the responsibility goes to the Pakistanis for supporting them with weapons, intelligence, money and supplies - and the Saudis for funding the Madrassa system from which their twisted idealogy came.


In addition, the events of 9-11-01 simply could not have happened without willful, conscious help from both this administration, intelligence community, and several arms of our current government both elected and un-elected.
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You're in good company. All the [b]uneducated[/b] masses of the Arab world share your delusions (although most of them still praise the attack, coincidently) - the more intelligent people of planet earth seem to grasp the obvious. In this case I guess dumb is best. Imagine the size and scope of the conspiracy... it boggles the mind! So many people to keep quiet. I guess the bodies will start piling up soon.


It was a planned event ala Columbine and all the high school shooting designed to alarm the public complete with pre-determined patsies (guns, Osama, Oswald, etc) and then come in and appease the masses with Constitution and BOR pillaging legislation.
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Yes it was a planned event. The terrorists planned it to the last detail, even making trial runs like the Columbine kids. Do you really believe that [b]all[/b] of the school shootings were really nefarious high-level plots? Not some... but [b]all[/b]?

Link Posted: 3/1/2002 12:36:09 AM EDT
[#8]
How about this little mind-twister--If the intelligence apparatus missed the planning and carrying out of an event of this scale completely, how in the hell can they 3 hours later have the complete bios of every single "terrorist" on those planes? Doesn't make sense, cannot make sense.
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Lessee, on the one hand they are all-knowing and all-seeing masters of the universe, and the only possible perpetrators of so great a crime (no one else has the capability, right?)... on the other hand they can't put together a passenger itinerary complete with the perps [b]real names[/b] and security camera tape. They also left suicide notes [b]behind in this country[/b] to explain their actions to their parents (probably a good security move on their part).  And they didn't present their "complete bios" in three hours, only that video tape in the evening or next morning, and the rest only in drips over the following weeks. Some of the seventeen have still never been discussed in any real detail at all. I suppose that's a conspiracy now too.

The trauma of seeing those planes take out some of the largest buildings on US soil and killing all those folks precludes the minds of most folks from ever realizing the lies inherent in the official story, though.
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But you did! And all from watching the same television news. You must be a genius, or do you just have the "special glasses" from 'They Live'??

You're the guy who said that the real reason we are in Afghanistan is to build a pipeline down from the former asian Soviet Republics to the gulf. I remember now. To sell the oil to China or some nonsense.

The problem with people like you is that you see conspiracies IN EVERYTHING. And of course nobody can prove you wrong. Anything that gets more news coverage than a seven-eleven getting knocked over, and may have an influence on public policy, is immediately suspect. You're like that guy Mel Gibson played in the movie 'Conspiracy Theory'! Sometimes the badguys are actually correctly identified, as opposed to only being behind the scenes. Hard to accept I know.

PS: Don't you think it's dangerous to post here? [b]They[/b] may be watching.
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 1:39:37 AM EDT
[#9]
Wait just a moment! These must be the guys who planned 9/11...

Shadow Government Activated for U.S.
Fri Mar 1, 2:28 AM ET
By RON FOURNIER, AP White House Correspondent

WASHINGTON (AP) - A "shadow government" consisting of 75 or more senior officials has been living and working secretly outside Washington since Sept. 11 in case the nation's capital is crippled by terrorist attack, a senior government official says.

Such an operation was conceived as a Cold War precaution against nuclear attack during the Eisenhower administration but never used until now. It went into effect in the first hours after the terror attacks and has evolved over time, said the official, who spoke Thursday night only on condition of anonymity.

The shadow government plan was activated out of heightened fears that the al-Qaida terrorist network might obtain a portable nuclear weapon. U.S. intelligence has no specific knowledge of such a weapon, but the risk was great enough to warrant the activation of a plan, the official said.

Under the classified "Continuity of Operations Plan," which was first reported by The Washington Post in its Friday editions, high-ranking officials representing their departments have begun rotating in and out of the assignment at one of two fortified locations along the East Coast.

The Post said the first rotations were made in late October or early November, a fact confirmed by a senior government official late Thursday.

Officials who are activated for the duty live and work underground 24 hours a day, away from their families, according to the Post. The shadow government has sent home most of the first wave of deployed personnel, replacing them most commonly at 90-day intervals.

A government official who spoke to The Associated Press said the groups usually number 70 to 150 people, depending on the level of threat detected by U.S. intelligence. He said President Bush does not foresee ever needing to turn over government functions to the secret operation, but believed it was prudent to implement the long-standing plan in light of the gathering war on terrorism and persistent threats of future attacks.

The team, drawn from every Cabinet department and some independent agencies, would seek to prevent the collapse of essential government functions in the event of a disabling blow to Washington, the official said.
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Link Posted: 3/1/2002 1:40:25 AM EDT
[#10]
The underground government would try to contain disruptions of the nation's food and water supplies, transportation links, energy and telecommunications networks, public health and civil order, the Post reported. Later, it would begin to reconstitute the government.

The government-in-waiting is an extension of a policy that has kept Vice President Dick Cheney in secure, undisclosed locations away from Washington. Cheney has moved in and out of public view as threat levels have fluctuated.

As next in line to power behind Bush, he would need help running the government in a worst-case scenario

"We take this issue extraordinarily seriously, and are committed to doing as thorough a job as possible to ensure the ongoing operations of the federal government," Joseph W. Hagin, White House deputy chief of staff, told the Post, though he declined to discuss details. "In the case of the use of a weapon of mass destruction, the federal government would be able to do its job and continue to provide key services and respond."

According to the Post, the backup government consists generally of officials from top career ranks, from GS-14 and GS-15 to members of the Senior Executive Service. The White House is represented by a "senior-level presence," one official said, but well below such Cabinet-ranked advisers as Chief of Staff Andrew H. Card Jr. and national security adviser Condoleezza Rice.

Many departments, including Justice and Treasury, have completed plans to delegate statutory powers to officials who would not normally exercise them, the Post said. Others do not need to make such legal transfers, or are holding them in reserve.

The report said civilians deployed for the operation are not allowed to take their families and may not tell anyone where they are going or why.

The two sites of the shadow government make use of local geological features to render them highly secure, the Post said. They are well stocked with food, water, medicine and other consumable supplies, and are capable of generating their own power.
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Actually, it's not them, or they wouldn't have revealed it   :(      A disinformation campaign DJ?
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 5:21:03 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Let's see, the CIA/intelligence community trained, funded, and created ...snip...

I will leave with the following quote that sums up my feeling.

"Even if you are in a minority of one, the truth is still the truth".  Ghandi
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Thank you shooter69, for taking this apart. DJbump, you don't offer a hint of proof. You start with suppositions and extend them into conclusions: faulty logic.
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 5:35:46 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
I wlll be called paranoid, ignorant, unpatriotic and all other manner of things for saying so--I don't give a damn. I will leave with the following quote that sums up my feeling.

"Even if you are in a minority of one, the truth is still the truth".  Ghandi
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You should be listening to another quote, this one from Lincoln:  "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
Yes, DJ Jazzy Bump and the Fresh Paranoia, you ARE unpatriotic and you ARE a nutcase.  You belong over in Palestine, jumping up and down in the street and throwing rocks with your brothers who think that George W Bush and Ariel Sharon personally flew the planes into the WTC.
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 5:39:56 AM EDT
[#13]
Well, whoismaking money off those fields?
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Small farmers in Afghanistan.  The warlords who control the poppy-growing regions.  The criminals who refine, smuggle, distribute and retail the drugs.

The third category probably includes people like the KLA, which means that some portion of the money is going to al-Quaeda, but they'd make money off some sort of drugs anyway.

And how cost effective is the War on Drugs?
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As far as I can tell, the people promoting the "War on Drugs" have some odd ideas about cost effectiveness.  But as long as the taxpayers are footing the bill, who cares? [:|]

Why not napalm the entire crop?
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1) It would be very expensive.
2) There would be extensive "collateral damage" (e.g., damage to other crops, children burned alive, farmers going bankrupt, etc.)
3) The "allies" we have now in Afghanistan would turn against us, leading to greater instability which would provide a new opening for Osama and company.

Link Posted: 3/1/2002 8:02:44 AM EDT
[#14]
Just added a poll to this to see what percentage of us all think.
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 8:22:04 PM EDT
[#15]
I sincerely wish I could grab a bunch of us from here, gather our OWN weaponery & go visit all those camel jockeys that I see burning the US flags in Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, etc. etc.

Fix bayonets & as Stonewall Jackson used to say, "Give 'em cold steel, boys!"

It irritates the shit out of me to see rag heads shouting down the Great Satan & someone not there to check their machismo. Or their ability to take a solid punch.  >gg<
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 2:09:00 PM EDT
[#16]
I just feel that this is not just right. We need to take care of are own first.
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 7:02:55 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Thank you shooter69, for taking this apart. DJbump, you don't offer a hint of proof. You start with suppositions and extend them into conclusions: faulty logic.
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Thank you as well. I don't mind listening to people's fantasies, but they do need to be addressed.

Quoted:
You should be listening to another quote, this one from Lincoln:  "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
Yes, DJ Jazzy Bump and the Fresh Paranoia, you ARE unpatriotic and you ARE a nutcase.  You belong over in Palestine, jumping up and down in the street and throwing rocks with your brothers who think that George W Bush and Ariel Sharon personally flew the planes into the WTC.
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BWAHAHAHAHA!!

DJ Jazzy Bump, now that's a keeper.

Quoted:
I sincerely wish I could grab a bunch of us from here, gather our OWN weaponery & go visit all those camel jockeys that I see burning the US flags in Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, etc. etc.
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I'm with ya.
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 7:31:35 AM EDT
[#18]
 Tayous, I dont see a steady state of war, what I see is a series of 'in & out' campaigns like Afghanistan.  The underlying cause of this war is the fundamentalist Muslims vs. the Christian/secular West.  This is why i used the Hundred Years' War as an analogy.  The populace will not stand for another VietNam, so it will be operations with a break in between.  BTW for the sake of DJ bump, there is a MOUNTAIN of physical evidence that our intel agencies were aware of something, but lacking specifics, no action was taken.
 The casualty of the War on Drugs was half of our civil rights.  The casualty of the War on Poverty has been our personal income.  I suspect the casualty of the War on Terrorism will be the remander of the Bill of Rights.  God I hope I am wrong.
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 8:34:29 AM EDT
[#19]


Tayous, I dont see a steady state of war, what I see is a series of 'in & out' campaigns like Afghanistan. The underlying cause of this war is the fundamentalist Muslims vs. the Christian/secular West. This is why i used the Hundred Years' War as an analogy. The populace will not stand for another VietNam, so it will be operations with a break in between. BTW for the sake of DJ bump, there is a MOUNTAIN of physical evidence that our intel agencies were aware of something, but lacking specifics, no action was taken.
The casualty of the War on Drugs was half of our civil rights. The casualty of the War on Poverty has been our personal income. I suspect the casualty of the War on Terrorism will be the remander of the Bill of Rights. God I hope I am wrong.
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  The manner in which this war is fought will be just like you said for the length of time we are able to control the direction and timing of this war.  Thus far we have and are able to.  If our enemies bring the war to us then all bets are off.  Thus far they have not been able to.  They are stuck there in their countries without navies, without any real regimentation or discipline, those that are in foriegn lands that oppose us are toast.  But that leaves those here that are in our country.  I don't know what they will do, but the threat from abroad is potentially microscopic compared to the threat internally. The ones that are considered a threat are being removed from this country, will we get them in time and in great enough numbers to make a difference, I don't know; Time will tell. If not then we may see the causalty be the BOR and the CONSTITUTION.  Also I see a difference in Civil Liberties and the BOR , The BOR enumerates Individual Liberties not civil liberties.  Civil Liberties are those that can be given and taken away by society. Individual Liberties are ordained by god and cannot be removed.  Although many civil liberties encroach upon the territory of Individual Liberties , although the exact opposite should be the case. Civil Liberties should stop where individual liberty begins. However not to segue to much, I think you make a very good point, but with some foundation that should be detailed further.  You tend to use popular defined viewpoints such as ,"Another Vietnam", "War of Poverty" etc, well I guess those can be used as long as they are merely describing the events themselves. I have a tendency to stay away from such labels because the tend to dilute that which must not be diluted.  Those labels never address the underlying cause of any problem.



Benjamin
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 8:54:32 AM EDT
[#20]
CONTINUING:
TO FINISH:
 Militarily the United States does not at this point have enough, "Men and Guns" to do the job The cold war ended with a unanimous chorus of democrats shouting, "Good now we can draw down our military, and increase public spending." Democrats are never the smartest people even under the best of circumstances. I for one remembering thinking that the world had just gotten a hell of a lot more dangerous , BECAUSE they had just ended the subordination of Middle Eastern peoples to the Soviet Regime. The democrats missed that; but they can be counted on to miss most things.  Reagen increased the size of the military substantially from 81-84/5. Perhaps we can do the same thing. The democrats believe that the Military Industrial Complex is a bad thing due to the spending. But the truth is The Military Industrial Complex creates a gargantuan number of Jobs and Wealth for all people from the line soldier to the General and to the CEO from top to bottom. It does this without ever giving or having welfare and it does it in every state.  The MIC is a great thing for America, and it has the most important benefit of Keeping America ready to defend itself from all agressors. The MIC also keeps people off of welfare and in jobs, which I guess the Democrats didn't Really want. But that is history and we all know what democrats are. The Democrats blame defense spending for the deficit in the Eighties all the while TRYING TO MASK THE FACT THAT IN 84/5/6/7 THE DEFENSE BUDGET OF APPROXIMATELY $450BILLION A YEAR WHILE THEY THEMSEVLES WHERE SPENDING $1.5TRILLION TO $2TRILLION DOLLARS A YEAR ON GIVEAWAY PROGRAMS.  Democrats have this magnificent capability to project their own wrongs on others , You see it everyday.  

We will WIN the WAR If the US can rid itself of foreign nationals hell bent on destruction within the US and We will have WON if all the while we can secure and improve our Freedoms and Rights here at home.
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 8:59:27 AM EDT
[#21]
Without a doubt!  
How else is the U.S. going to make the world safe for Hypocrisy...er..I mean Democrazy... uh.... Democracy. I knew I'd get it right...uh... write, given enough time.
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 10:10:42 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
 The casualty of the War on Drugs was half of our civil rights.
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It's ironic isn't it that so many people screaming about losing our rights since September 11 have wholeheartedly supported the War on Drugs.  We have lost far more rights in the name of the War on Drugs than anything else in our history.
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 11:10:12 AM EDT
[#23]
We either need a lot of people joining up now, or start the draft so that we can have personnel trained. The small military we have now cannot spread themselves out a lot more and be expected to shoulder the burden for as long as it will take.
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 11:21:02 AM EDT
[#24]
Also,

(Orginal post by jd123:  Total garbage! I forgot it was whom left Sadam in his office due to whose pressure? Wasn't that Mr. Bush Sr and Gen Powell cave in due to your European and Saudi Allies?)

What does he mean by "YOUR European and Saudi Allies?" Are we Americans the "Your"?
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 12:28:34 PM EDT
[#25]
go Rik.
while you are at it maybe you can find some room at Gitmo for Dashrill and senile friend Byrd.
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