Get a life. You must be in command of a quartermaster unit if you've got time to screw with some kid who is proud to be a marine and wants to show it off. I cant believe you guys are freaking out over this. The bottom line is that these cammies will get in civilian hands and there isnt much you can do about it. Get over it.

I wonder....

Do Rangers get pissed off at all the Frenchmen, when they visit France?
[img]http://www.spoothe.com/pages/art/french_man.jpg[/img]

THe new cammies look wierd, but the work better than any other pattern in use right now.
As far as civilians getting them, well, it will happen, just like the Dress Blues blouse.
Do I get annoyed when I see a civilian wearing cammies? No. They have that RIGHT.
We service members do NOT have the right to wear our cammies however or wherever we want.
And I think THAT is the real rub.
All you Marines who cry over the new cammies, get over it.
By the way, will you not wear a set if the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor are upside down?
I hope not, because there is no requirement for the pattern to be put together in a certian way. A sergeant that I work with went down to MCBCLJ to get a set, and almost all of the imprinted Eagle, Globe, and Anchors were upside down.
And one more thing Marines, SGTMAJ McMichael said it's not EGA, but Eagle, Globe, and Anchor. So FIX YOURSELVES FIRST.

Nice generalization.  I could say the same thing about the Corps, but I won't, because THAT WOULDN'T BE TRUE EITHER.  Stick to the topic.  If you want to play the same old Army vs. Marines game, START ANOTHER THREAD.

As for the MARPAT, I think you've developed a slight case of paranoia.  The only other people who want them are hunters and people who want some form of camo.  On this point, you are right, THE ARMY DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT about your MARPAT.

Thanks for your time.

Actually, that's BS.
Hunters don't want MARPAT.  Hunters rarely use BDUs (serious hunters, at least)

People want the new cammies because they're really cool.
Period.

 This discussion has degraded into useless nonsense and bitching.  Nothing more to say here- Marines want a special uniform, just for themselves- either you get it or you don't.  And, if you aren't a Marine, you probably don't get it (or the new cammies for that matter).

You know, it always blows my mind, That people will claim the Goverment is sending young Marines to their death in a improperly tested aircraft like the OV-10 Ospray, or twenty year old helicopters (Old helicopters ar killing more Marines than Osama.), Yet these same people will turn around in the next breath and embrace a new camo pattern, like it was sent down to the troops by the hand of God.

One should always remember, that at some point in the procurment process, the issue, of what can we mass produce and aquire from the lowest bidder is going to come up.

Frankly that Computer generated little squares pattern, Screams of lowest bidder. (Did'nt the russians try that type of Pattern and give it up. Maybe we could change the name from MARPAT to PRBR Camo, Pattern Rejected By Russians.)

Now I know that if you go to the MARPAT website it will give you all manner of reasons why MARPAT in the greatest advance in camo technology ever invented. (As well they would since the guys that wrote that are planning on selling a whole lot of MARPAT, and ARPAT, and maybe some AirdalePAT or CoastyPAT. depending of course on the royalties and their need to purchace a new BMW.)

Unless the Camo Splotches are about the size of dinner plates, The human eye will see nothing more than a guy in a green suit at 200 to 300 meters. MARPAT looks to me like it will have real problems breaking up outline at those distances. as does the current Woodlands Pattern.

I think I'll Stay with my good old Mossy Oak Break Up, (Availible at any K-Mart in the county, CHEAP, or thue the Cabalas Catolog, if you want the good stuff.)

I guess it would be a tremendous blow to the moral of the Corp to have highly effective Camo, That could be bought by any Jo Blow.

I'm also a fan of Mossy Oak Shadow Grass, But only because I live in the rolling wheat fields and Johnson grass of Oklahoma, Were it is increadiby effective.

Just one question for all you Marines...
How is life in the Navy??? (just playin'!!!!)

No disrespect to anyone who wore or wears the Armed Service Uniform. The truth is I couldn't wait to get my Camo off. Then again that was about 30 yrs ago. Let a Marine touch a Civi for wearing a MARPAT. Do you think a court of Law would go for that?

I would love to sue the Corps and the guy for having a Marine beat this poor 50-year-old man up. Then again what happened if I kicked his Ass instead. Do you think he would wear the MARPAT with pride again?

I personally find it more disrespectful people wearing FDNY and NYPD hats and shirts. Should I start putting a beat down on these people? We wear our Uniform with pride also.

The Japanese have already copied MARPAT.

[url]http://www.americaya-int.co.jp/new01.html[/url]

SJ
me and you bump heads all the time, but since I more than likely have time on army bases than you have on Marine Bases, I think I can give an educated generalization vice yours which is not.  My last duty station was an army base, I asked many times why soldiers wore their cammies out in town during all kinds of weird hours and to all kinds of places.  The simple fact was the regulation were not enforced.  If you cannot stand that your service doesn't enforce its own regulation in the name of good order and discipline you need to talk to your side of the house not mine.  [b]We do enforce the regs.[/b]

Also if hunters want the pattern they must be hunting humans, since the pattern is designed to work on the way the human eye sees the word not animals, it may not be very effective at all for most animals since they don't observe the way humans do.



Actually no, I am a cannon battery commander.  But unlike some I am more than willing to take my time and make sure the regulations that are well explained to every Marine are enforced.  If only you guys did may be your little picture of earned not given would actually mean something.  But I guess the rangers should have just got over it about their black berets also, since there is no reason for a man from the 75th to upset that some REMF is wearing a badge of courage he didn't earn.  Hell that kind of sounds like Marine being upset that someone who doesn't rate a Marine Corps emblem wearing it.  Hum, that sounds a little hypocritical, if you ask me.

Well I'll take the word of the scout-sniper instructors at WTBN Quantico at was hardest for them to see.  Also the OV-10 left Marine service in 1991

The Marine Corps emblem is embroidered on at an angle, that was part of the survey Marines preferred it that way.  It is not upside down.  The SgtMaj of the Marine Corps didn't not say it is not an "EGA" but an Eagle Globe and Anchor that was Gen Jones

STLRN, you need ot go back to the Marine Corps Times interview with the SgtMaj. HE is the one who made the comment about  the Eagle Golbe and Anchor. It was the issue that he was discussing "giving back" powers to the NCOs'.
And obviously, you haven't looked over the uniform to closely. Part of the pattern is an Eagle Globe and Anchor. They are al right side up when the bolt of material is patterned. But when the bolts are cut an sewen togeher, there was no diretion as to how the Eagle Globe and Anchor were supposed to be aligned. I'm not talking about the embroidered Eagle Globe and Anchor, but the trade marke one in the pattern. Go check out some of your NCOs' uniforms and you will see what I mean.
And the cammies don't come with the pads in them. You have to purchase them seperatly. I doubt that they will be very effective from the pouch design inside the sleeves. And how exactly ae they supposed to be rolled?
I don't have a set, nor will I get any.
I'm keeping 2 sets of cammies and my Blues when I get out. The rest will be gone.
They need to do away with the  Alphas as it is.

[smoke]

Well I do have several sets of cammies, I know what you are talking about there are small(less than an 1/4 an inch) green Marine Corps Emblem and USMC, but you have to be about a foot away to see that, they are thoughout the pattern and some are upside down some side ways and some right side up.  But the emblem I was refering to is one the Left Breast and the only one you can see at a distance

The whole its not a "EGA" started when Gen Jones took over, he stated it would not be called an EGA.  The SgtMaj is echoing his words, vice being the starting point for the statment that Marines will call it either the Marine Corps Emblem or an Eagle Globe and Anchor.

When I first go to my squadron in 1991, the OV-10's were parked outside of the fence of the Depot. Of course they were there to be dismantled, but what a waste.
A good way in get troops in country, without having to go low and slow.
And for waht it's worth, the Osprey program isn't that only one that fudges it 's readiness numbers.
But I stand by what I said about the SgtMajUSMC. I haven't seen the article where General Jones said anything about the Eagle Globe and Anchor.
I met him out at Lyman Road a few years ago during one of the CAPEX ops. He is one TALL individual. And a very nice man at that.
He spoke with all of us wingers (individually) at Lyman Road that day.

[smoke]

Believe almost nothing you read in the Times, remember up until a little while ago they were saying all Marines were going to get the cammies issued for free, but oh well 67.00 dollars later per set we are buying them.  If I can find the Email that was sent out the week the Commandant took over I will post it, but that along with brown tees was one of the Commandants pet peeves.

You are quite correct in pointing out, my mistake in reference to the OV-10, I had meant to Write V-22 Ospray, In my earlier post.

It is true that Military camo must be able to blend with the the many different terrains that might be encountered on battle fields around the world.

However, If you are a civilian, and have the luxury of knowing the area, geography and local flora, Then the photo realistic camo made for hunters (Mossy Oak break up, Mossy Oak Shadow grass, Advantage, Mossy oak Forest floor, ect.) will do just fine, if not better than MARPAT.

None of the photo realistic camo's were evaluated by the Snipers, since the military wanted it's own pattern, but in so doing makes sacrifices for the ability to work in many differing terrains and rightfully so.

Why a civilian, with the ability to tailor his camo to his intended terrain, and with access to the fine selection of photo realistic camo's availible would want MARPAT is beyond my understanding.

Then Again, there are people out there who will buy anything, as long as it has the words mil spec on it. Without regard to common sense.

I like the regular woodland camo better anyway. It worked for me when I was in the Army. I see no reason to change.

Z71, trust me.

if you wear the uniform in public you are wearing it incorrectly. if you wear it correctly (bloused boots, name tapes, rank insignia) then you are impersonating a member of the armed forces and thus a shit-bag.

if your son wears it in public he is a shit-bird. no discussion. a Marine who wears his utilities in public is a shit-bird ask any Marine.

MARPAT isnt that great. for hunting, paintball etc bill jordans creations are far superior.

you do not rate the uniform because your son is a Marine. HE rates the uniform

wearing the uniform is not a show of support. you want to support, volunteer at the USO

wearing my Emblem that you do not rate is not a show of support, it is a show of pathetic wannabe-ism.

damn "PX Rangers"

I have to agree with the people who get pissed at seeing idiots walking around in cammies.  As a grunt, I never wore cammies off base or at any time I wasn't required to.  I can't understand civilian fascination with them.  They aren't that good, they rip, they are made by the lowest bidder, the cammo pattern is designed for jungles, not North America.  For hunting there are a zillion other patterns that are better.  I feel sorry for the guys who will have to wear the new ones...Marines have to purchase their own cammies, Soldiers and Airmen are issued BDU's.  By the time these guys have to starch and iron the new cammies for garrison, all the new features will be for nothing.

I should have read all the post before posting.  Z71Rat, your son can not "produly wear" his cammies in public.  If he does he is a boot.  He is supposed to buy you the "Proud Father of a Marine" shirts at the PX.  This is a regualtion and is enforced by any senior Marine who sees him.  And we do.  If you are caught stopping to put gas in your car off base, the tank better be on empty.  Medical emergencies, broken car, the are only a few acceptable excuses.  These regs are enforced, I have seen several Marines get page 11 entries for this.

The Marines can keep the new pattern. I was visiting my cousin at Camp Pendelton last week, and saw a few Marines in the new uniform. It looks friggin' nasty.  [puke]

OMG I haven't laughed so hard in days.

The only reason I don't wear my old utilities anymore is because being 45 pounds heavier with long hair and a slouch I'd look really stupid.

I don't care if someone (non-military) wants to wear the uniform, as long as they don't believe they "rate" the original.  (ie... think they're a Marine because they wear the threads).

That being said... the new "Green on Brown with splatterings of White 'n Black" look pretty cool.  If I can find a pair I might just pick some up for bowhunting.

The cammies off base thing is very much driven by the base you are at. When I was at Cherry Pt it was pretty open with the cammies, so that no one could bitch about the pilots wearing their flight suits 24/7. (at least they didn't wear the rather gay looking scarfs with them that the navy and af seemed so fond of)

You got me there, but the difference is you dont see a bunch of Rangers on here talking about "other" Rangers beating your ass in public for wearing the berets. What happened is the 75th said "Yes Sir" and moved on. Thats what I think you guys should do. You can spot a Marine a mile away no matter what he's wearing because of the way they carry themselves. This should be enough. I personally think the MARPAT sucks. I dont like BDU's either but I dont go around beating civilian asses who wear them in public. Ive got better things to do with my time.

Maybe you Jarheads should patent some new panties for yourselves -- they could come pre-bunched!

JUST KIDDING!

Couldn't let all the jabs at the Army go unanswered.

Well that was the official statement by the 75th, but I did here a lot of guys say "wait till the first time some PAC clerk was in a Ranger bar wearing his black beret."

So no one is condoning the violence, but let face it there are a lot in both services that would do it.  Hell I remember when 1/6 had a Company versus company throw down and it was almost comical since the started on opposite hills and ran at each other or when a BN versus BN fights happen at 7th Marines and the only thing the MPs did was cordon off the fight so no one else could join in.

Sounds to me like you have a complex DD.
So my mom doesn't rate to wear the "Proud Parent of A Marine"  with the Eagle Globe and Anchor shirts that I got her??
YOU need to get your head out of your ass Deviled Egg.  You don't have any say in who "rates'" what. You're jut to follow orders.
My father-in-law has a nice collection of clothing with the Eagle Globe and Anchor, and he is about to get a new set of sweats from me.
He is proud of me, and if he wants clothing with "your Emblem" on it, guess what?? He is gonna get it.
Your little temper trantum is pathetic. Sounds like you were part of 4th BTN at PI.
And from my 11 years in the USMC, I've found out those who call everyone else a shitbird are usually the shitbirds.
Guess what, if Z71 wears the new cammies, you won't be able to do anything about it. Why? Because he is an American, and is allowed to do things that piss whiners like you off.
His son on the other hand SHOULD NOT wear cammies at home, but if he is proud of his service, be courteous about the corretion.
Z71, it IS against regulation for your son to wear his cammies off base, and he knows it. However, if they are unserviceable, he can remove the Eagle Globe And Anchor, and name tapes and can wear them for hunting and things like that. Alot of Marines who hunt use cammies to hunt in.

[smoke]

There is some false info out there, here are the specific regs in regards to wearing the uniform, and from what I remember at both Boot, OCS and TBS unserviceable cammies with or without name tapes are not authorized for Marines for hunting I remember a DI addressing that very issue.



MCO P1020.34
MARINE CORPS UNIFORM REGULATIONS



2007. CAMOUFLAGE UTILITY UNIFORM (See figs. 2-33 through 2-35.)
1. The camouflage utility uniform is not authorized for wear except when in the field,  for field-type exercises, or for those work conditions where it is not practical to wear the service uniform.

2. The utility uniform is a working uniform. Wear of the utility uniform is authorized while commuting to and from work to include all travel aboard DOD-owned/controlled aircraft. The utility uniform may also be worn for brief and appropriate stops off-base during duty hours or while commuting. In addition to emergency/maintenance stops, Marines are allowed to make brief, essential stops off-base during duty hours and while commuting to and from their place of duty, such as:

a. when dropping off/picking up children from daycare centers or school;

b. obtaining gas or other essential driving aids (wiper blades, snow chains, fluids, lights, etc.);

c. picking up/dropping off dry-cleaning;

d. off-base financial institutions; to include automatic teller machines; (ALMAR 107/96)

e. picking up vehicles at repair shops or gas stations;

f. at drive-thru windows where exiting the vehicle is not required; and,

g. at a convenience store or drug store solely for the purchase of emergency childcare or health products (milk, diapers, medicine, etc.).

3. Marines are prohibited from wearing the utility uniform as a liberty uniform off-base or during inappropriate circumstances such as:

a. at restaurants, pizza parlors, bars, lounges, etc.;

b. when dealing with public officials (police, courthouse, attorneys);

c. while attending classes or activities, or conducting business at education facilities;

d. at commercial airports/bus stations for travel or entering pick/drop off passengers;

e. at retail/rental stores, shopping malls, and shops for shopping or paying bills;

f. at grocery stores/supermarkets'

g. at movie theaters, mini-golf, or other similar entertainment/
recreational or sporting activities.

11004. LAWS PERTAINING TO THE UNIFORM
1. Per 10 U.S.C. 771, [b]o person, unless other-wise authorized by law, except a member of the Marine Corps may wear the uniform or a distinctive part of the uniform of which is similar to a distinctive part of the Marine Corps uniform.[/b]
2. According to 18 U.S.C. 702, whoever, in any place within the jurisdiction of the United States or in the Canal Zone, without authority wears the Marine Corps uniform will be fined not more than $250 or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

3. According to 10 U.S.C. 772, the Marine Corps uniform may be worn by personnel not on active duty under the following conditions:

a. Retired Marine Corps officers may bear the title and wear the uniform of their retired grade.

b. Former Marines who are discharged honorably or under honorable conditions from the Marine Corps may wear their uniform while going from the place of discharge to their home of record, within three months after discharge.

c. Former Marines not on active duty who served honorably in time of war in the Marine Corps may bear the title, and as authorized by regulations prescribed by the President, wear the uniform of the highest grade held during that war (subparagraph 11002.1).

d. While portraying a member of the Marine Corps, an actor in a theatrical or motion picture production may wear the Marine Corps uniform provided the portrayal does not tend to discredit the Marine Corps.

e. While attending a course of military instruction conducted by the Marine Corps, a civilian may wear the uniform prescribed by the commander of the installation conducting the instruction.

They should make it a law that only marines can wear those.  Come on!
So how many non-marine distinctive parts do I have to have to not get hassled over it?  Is there a limit on import parts?  What are the "evil" parts?  I'd like to make shorts out of the bottoms but I don't think the leggings can be any shorter than 16".

That is ture STLRN, but people still use them.
Now, I didn't know that I could wear my uniform after I got out (cammies) but now that I know, I just might go get a set of digicammies(NOT).

[smoke]

     I can do nothing BUT read more into it. I would think nothing more of it, but you try to, in a seemingly arrogant way; be-little the "silly sports team's Jersey". I played a year of Semi-Pro football, not being good enough to go pro in NFL or CFL, or NFL-Europe. I didn't play another year as I lost the zest for the game I once had. I went on to and am currently employed at UPS. I am not some freak, so please read on!
       I am taking your stance on the Marine Corp uniform to be competely arrogant and that is what I feel is diserving of this reply.
     Sports Teams thrive on fans and we wouldn't be doing anything more than playing back-yard pick up game without them!
      What make you think for one instance that the Corp would be around without the support of the US government or it's citizens?
      I am a real-ist and do see that wearing a full uniform is pretty F&$cked Up, and is diserving to get the sh*t stomped out of them for impersonating what they aren't. But what you are saying is that a guy who is in, and gives his nephew who has Sickle-Cell and will be weeded out in physical a BDU cap, and he wears it out IS diserving of one?
     Being a Marine is a special thing and not many make it, but there are limits to this air of confidence that is displayed by them past and current Marines and most don't recognize them.
     I again want to stress that I am a real-ist and want to state that Pro sports and Marines are both needed in this society and play different roles, but I see a lot more current and retired Marines than I do current and retired Pro and Semi-pro atheletes. You who have decided to read this do the matha nd see which is the hardeer organization to get into! I see recruters everyday wanting your name on that paper so they make bonus![^]

You dodn't see atheletes being freaks and beating the Sh#t out of their fans do you?

I haven't visted this thread since my last post.

Glad I did.

(We should have an icon laughing blow snot out your nose)