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AR15.COM
10/10/2009 6:55:13 PM EDT
Went to the range today and did a little working out with my SIG 556 Rifle/ EOTech 512 rig.

Ammo used was my usual range fodder - Remington UMC 55 grain FMJ.

Range was 50 yards.

I would estimate that about 75% of my rifle shots land in the quadrant between six and nine o'clock, and it doesn't seem to matter what platform I am using or whether I am using an optic or the irons.  I photographed this string of five shots from today's excursion for purposes of illustration.  The first shot in this string was the "flyer" off to the left in the 8 ring.  The subsequent four shots printed in nearly a straight line.

Thoughts, feedback, & suggestions on how I can tighten up welcome.  Again, I don't think the EOTech needs adjustment, because I do this consistently even with irons & on other platforms.  It is something in my technique.

Anyone have that chart handy that shows the common causes of shot placement by quadrant?  Thanks.

10/10/2009 7:01:59 PM EDT
[#1]
If you do this "consistently" then it's the sights, right?
10/10/2009 7:02:56 PM EDT
[#2]
Are the shots on or off call?
10/10/2009 7:05:50 PM EDT
[#3]
First thought - vertical stringing = work on breathing.  Work on breathing and squeezing the trigger at the same point in your breath cycle.  In other words, inhale/pause/exhale/pause  - insert a squeeze at the top of your inhale and do it every time the same way.  You're probably firing at the top, bottom and in-between your breathing cycle now.

Just a thought...
10/10/2009 7:08:14 PM EDT
[#4]
10/10/2009 7:08:57 PM EDT
[#5]
Go to an Appleseed shoot!

They'll teach you everything you need to know.

I would agree it's probably breath control.
10/10/2009 7:10:47 PM EDT
[#6]



Quoted:


First thought - vertical stringing = work on breathing.  Work on breathing and squeezing the trigger at the same point in your breath cycle.  In other words, inhale/pause/exhale/pause  - insert a squeeze at the top of your inhale and do it every time the same way.  You're probably firing at the top, bottom and in-between your breathing cycle now.



Just a thought...


I agree on the breath control.





Only I squeeze the trigger during the natural respiratory pause on the exhale, prior to inhaling.  This allows to totally relax my body instead of having to hold my breath, which creates pressure and tightens up the chest.  YMMV



 
10/10/2009 7:10:48 PM EDT
[#7]
Breathing??  Trigger control??

The targets that analyze by quadrants are for handguns but the pistol grip on the AR may make some of quadrant target's analysis valid.  

YMMV
10/10/2009 7:17:02 PM EDT
[#8]
<––––- Small Arms Instructor here. Just as others have said, work on your breathing. Your shots going in a vertical line = breath control. Remember this

Breath
Release (half way and hold)
Aim
Squeeze
Shoot

best of luck

10/10/2009 8:08:37 PM EDT
[#9]
First things first before worrying about any of that.


Have you established what your dominate eye is?
10/10/2009 8:11:13 PM EDT
[#10]


Breath control.











10/10/2009 9:31:40 PM EDT
[#11]
Thanks for the advice guys.

I'm thinking it has to be breathing control too.

I have been doing a lot of work on trigger control to prevent jerking the trigger over the past year or so, so I really don't think that's the issue.

Looks like I need to start concentrating more on the breathing thing now.

Oh, and I'm definitely right eye dominant.
10/10/2009 9:37:47 PM EDT
[#12]
Breathing is huge.  Also, are you using trigger follow through?  

1. Squeeze
2. "Bang"
Hold the trigger back.
3. Slowly allow the trigger to move forward until you hear 'Click'
1. Squeeze (should only be a couple pounds of pressure)
2. 'Bang"
Repeat.

Vertical shot pattern is usually breathing while fireing.

Good luck.
10/10/2009 9:40:43 PM EDT
[#13]
Trigger squeeze.
10/10/2009 10:30:16 PM EDT
[#14]


Isn't that wheel for pistols?

10/11/2009 5:37:33 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
First things first before worrying about any of that.


Have you established what your dominate eye is?


funny you mention that. I'm left eye dominant and right handed. I shoot with my left eye/right hand when shooting pistol but shoot with my right eye/right shoulder when shooting rifle. I've shoot expert a few times when shooting the M16 course of fire. I guess that's what adjustable sights are for.
10/11/2009 5:40:16 AM EDT
[#16]
Adjust your sights.  And work on your breathing.  Also have someone who is known to shoot tight groups fire the weapon.   See if they group in the same spot with the eotech as well.
10/11/2009 5:47:51 AM EDT
[#17]
I doubt it's the case in this scenario, but another common vertical stringing cause I've seen is sight picture.  Especially for folks using the military zero targets, some have trouble ID'ing the center of the mini silhouette and putting a consistent sight picture on it.  Various shots are aligned laterally, but move up and down the silhouette since there is little reference for the shooter to use in knowing he's aiming at the "center" of the dude.

The orange dot in this target generally precludes that, but I mention it so folks keep it in mind for future target analysis.
10/11/2009 6:05:53 AM EDT
[#18]
Changing your head position on the stock will cause vertical stringing at long ranges, and I'm sure there are other causes such as anticipating recoil.

Be sure to follow through on the trigger. Keep it pressed and keep your head on the stock until you reacquire the sight picture.

A good way to diagnose, and treat, the problem is dry firing.  Take a buddy to the range, fire enough rounds to see the stringing.

Then have the buddy load a dummy round/snap cap into a random spot in the magazine. You shouldn't know when the dummy is coming up.

If you're flinching/anticipating, it will be immediately obvious to both you and an observer.

I fixed a bad pistol flinch this way.
10/11/2009 6:16:34 AM EDT
[#19]
A question first.  What position are you shooting from?  Most of the information above shows up the most in the offhand position.  If you are shooting off of a bench or bag the rules change.
10/11/2009 7:02:26 AM EDT
[#20]
Tag.