Posted: 9/26/2009 2:04:28 PM EDT
Sometimes you just have to set yourself to kill.....
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That pic would be so mch better if it showed someone from an episode holding the CX4, FN 5.7, or the COP gun. |
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I always wondered this: If you're having problems with the Borg constantly adapting to your energy weapons, but a shit ton of replicated .45 ACP from a replicated Thompson sub-machine gun slices through a drone like nobody's business...why aren't you replicating a shit ton of machine guns and ammunition for your crew?? |
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I always wondered this: If you're having problems with the Borg constantly adapting to your energy weapons, but a shit ton of replicated .45 ACP from a replicated Thompson sub-machine gun slices through a drone like nobody's business...why aren't you replicating a shit ton of machine guns and ammunition for your crew?? In DS9 it was demonstrated that this could be done. They had a super advanced sniper rifle that could shoot through walls. It had a projectile replicator on it, you gave it raw material and it would keep shooting. They specifically said any officer had authorization to access the replicator patterns, and one officer actually owned one as part of his weapon collection. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I always wondered this: If you're having problems with the Borg constantly adapting to your energy weapons, but a shit ton of replicated .45 ACP from a replicated Thompson sub-machine gun slices through a drone like nobody's business...why aren't you replicating a shit ton of machine guns and ammunition for your crew?? In DS9 it was demonstrated that this could be done. They had a super advanced sniper rifle that could shoot through walls. It had a projectile replicator on it, you gave it raw material and it would keep shooting. They specifically said any officer had authorization to access the replicator patterns, and one officer actually owned one as part of his weapon collection. I remember that. I just thought it was kinda funny in that movie. If I was Captain Picard, I would be replicating Tommy Guns (at least) like mad and handing them out to everyone. |
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Quoted: I always wondered this: If you're having problems with the Borg constantly adapting to your energy weapons, but a shit ton of replicated .45 ACP from a replicated Thompson sub-machine gun slices through a drone like nobody's business...why aren't you replicating a shit ton of machine guns and ammunition for your crew?? They're so enlightened that projectile weapons are barbaric, but energy weapons are morally proper. Don't try to make it logical. You'll just go mad. |
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Did they ever actually aim phasers? I can't seem to recall a time I saw them line up any sights, it was always shoot from the hip. And they always hit whatever it was they were pointing at. Wtf? Phasers have targeting sensors built in, just like the ship, they automatically target Center Of Mass, all you have to do is point them in the right direction so that the target falls within the Phasers limited targeting arc. There are occasions when manual targeting reticules are used on Phaser Rifles. 
As you can see here Riker doesn't even have his phaser lined up directly at the point of impact, the Phaser does it for him. Kira kindof touches on this in the Deepspace 9 episode "Return To Grace" when she's talking about the capabilities of Federation Phaser Rifle to a Cardasian Phaser Rifle “Now this is an entirely different animal. It's Federation standard issue. A little less powerful, but with a lot more options: sixteen beam settings, fully autonomous recharge, multiple target acquisition, gyrostablized . . . the works.” Phaser Rifles did have manual sites to: 
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Did they ever actually aim phasers? I can't seem to recall a time I saw them line up any sights, it was always shoot from the hip. And they always hit whatever it was they were pointing at. Wtf? Phasers have targeting sensors built in, just like the ship, they automatically target Center Of Mass, all you have to do is point them in the right direction so that the target falls within the Phasers limited targeting arc. There are occasions when manual targeting reticules are used on Phaser Rifles. Naw, it's just like it's a stream of tracers. You can see your beam (and it's continuous), so you just walk it onto your target. Presto, chango, no aiming needed. |
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Quoted: I always wondered this: If you're having problems with the Borg constantly adapting to your energy weapons, but a shit ton of replicated .45 ACP from a replicated Thompson sub-machine gun slices through a drone like nobody's business...why aren't you replicating a shit ton of machine guns and ammunition for your crew?? Wouldn't work... If Picard had needed to shoot 1 more Borg, he would have been fucked... For each group of Borg, you can kill about 2 of them with a given weapon, then they adapt... When the E first encountered the Borg, photon torpedoes ripped HUGE chunks out of the cube... Guinan said 'keep firing', but Picard wanted to try and talk... The Borg adapted, and suddenly things didn't work so well... |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I always wondered this: If you're having problems with the Borg constantly adapting to your energy weapons, but a shit ton of replicated .45 ACP from a replicated Thompson sub-machine gun slices through a drone like nobody's business...why aren't you replicating a shit ton of machine guns and ammunition for your crew?? In DS9 it was demonstrated that this could be done. They had a super advanced sniper rifle that could shoot through walls. It had a projectile replicator on it, you gave it raw material and it would keep shooting. They specifically said any officer had authorization to access the replicator patterns, and one officer actually owned one as part of his weapon collection. I remember that. I just thought it was kinda funny in that movie. If I was Captain Picard, I would be replicating Tommy Guns (at least) like mad and handing them out to everyone. It was just unexpected. It would not work the next time. Their shields would have adapted to projectiles. Dave beat me by 17 seconds... |
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Quoted: Quoted: I always wondered this: If you're having problems with the Borg constantly adapting to your energy weapons, but a shit ton of replicated .45 ACP from a replicated Thompson sub-machine gun slices through a drone like nobody's business...why aren't you replicating a shit ton of machine guns and ammunition for your crew?? They're so enlightened that projectile weapons are barbaric, but energy weapons are morally proper. Don't try to make it logical. You'll just go mad.  That was my 2nd thought after I wondered about that. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Wouldn't work...I always wondered this: If you're having problems with the Borg constantly adapting to your energy weapons, but a shit ton of replicated .45 ACP from a replicated Thompson sub-machine gun slices through a drone like nobody's business...why aren't you replicating a shit ton of machine guns and ammunition for your crew?? If Picard had needed to shoot 1 more Borg, he would have been fucked... For each group of Borg, you can kill about 2 of them with a given weapon, then they adapt... When the E first encountered the Borg, photon torpedoes ripped HUGE chunks out of the cube... Guinan said 'keep firing', but Picard wanted to try and talk... The Borg adapted, and suddenly things didn't work so well... I figured that as well. ETA: And I really want to add some phasers to my collection!  |
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I always wondered this: If you're having problems with the Borg constantly adapting to your energy weapons, but a shit ton of replicated .45 ACP from a replicated Thompson sub-machine gun slices through a drone like nobody's business...why aren't you replicating a shit ton of machine guns and ammunition for your crew?? In DS9 it was demonstrated that this could be done. They had a super advanced sniper rifle that could shoot through walls. It had a projectile replicator on it, you gave it raw material and it would keep shooting. They specifically said any officer had authorization to access the replicator patterns, and one officer actually owned one as part of his weapon collection. I remember that. I just thought it was kinda funny in that movie. If I was Captain Picard, I would be replicating Tommy Guns (at least) like mad and handing them out to everyone. Dur, the Borg adapt to whatever weapon kills the drone. Once the projectile weapon was used, the Borg adapted and if they tried to use projectile weapons again they will not work. |
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I always wondered this: If you're having problems with the Borg constantly adapting to your energy weapons, but a shit ton of replicated .45 ACP from a replicated Thompson sub-machine gun slices through a drone like nobody's business...why aren't you replicating a shit ton of machine guns and ammunition for your crew?? In DS9 it was demonstrated that this could be done. They had a super advanced sniper rifle that could shoot through walls. It had a projectile replicator on it, you gave it raw material and it would keep shooting. They specifically said any officer had authorization to access the replicator patterns, and one officer actually owned one as part of his weapon collection. I remember that. I just thought it was kinda funny in that movie. If I was Captain Picard, I would be replicating Tommy Guns (at least) like mad and handing them out to everyone. Dur, the Borg adapt to whatever weapon kills the drone. Once the projectile weapon was used, the Borg adapted and if they tried to use projectile weapons again they will not work. Unless the projectiles had small EM shields on them that rotated their own random frequency. If they hit something that adapted, a sensor in the tip (due to physical contact) could match the frequency to the shields (like the klingons did in Generations) and it would go right through the shields. Zing! 
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I always wondered this: If you're having problems with the Borg constantly adapting to your energy weapons, but a shit ton of replicated .45 ACP from a replicated Thompson sub-machine gun slices through a drone like nobody's business...why aren't you replicating a shit ton of machine guns and ammunition for your crew?? In DS9 it was demonstrated that this could be done. They had a super advanced sniper rifle that could shoot through walls. It had a projectile replicator on it, you gave it raw material and it would keep shooting. They specifically said any officer had authorization to access the replicator patterns, and one officer actually owned one as part of his weapon collection. I remember that. I just thought it was kinda funny in that movie. If I was Captain Picard, I would be replicating Tommy Guns (at least) like mad and handing them out to everyone. Dur, the Borg adapt to whatever weapon kills the drone. Once the projectile weapon was used, the Borg adapted and if they tried to use projectile weapons again they will not work. Like they've adapted to being hit with fists right? |
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Quoted: They could beam onto the Borg ship. I never understood why they didn't just beam a massive neutron nuke onto it. (I'm waiting for a trekie to explain that to me) They beamed a photon torpedo into a borg ship destroying it in an episode of Voyager. ETA: Janeway was pisses because she "just wanted to disable them".  |
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Quoted: They could beam onto the Borg ship. I never understood why they didn't just beam a massive neutron nuke onto it. (I'm waiting for a trekie to explain that to me) Immoral. AFTER being assimilated and then being freed from the Borg, Picard refused to send them a computer virus because it was immoral. |
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I always wondered this: If you're having problems with the Borg constantly adapting to your energy weapons, but a shit ton of replicated .45 ACP from a replicated Thompson sub-machine gun slices through a drone like nobody's business...why aren't you replicating a shit ton of machine guns and ammunition for your crew?? In DS9 it was demonstrated that this could be done. They had a super advanced sniper rifle that could shoot through walls. It had a projectile replicator on it, you gave it raw material and it would keep shooting. They specifically said any officer had authorization to access the replicator patterns, and one officer actually owned one as part of his weapon collection. I remember that. I just thought it was kinda funny in that movie. If I was Captain Picard, I would be replicating Tommy Guns (at least) like mad and handing them out to everyone. Dur, the Borg adapt to whatever weapon kills the drone. Once the projectile weapon was used, the Borg adapted and if they tried to use projectile weapons again they will not work. Unless the projectiles had small EM shields on them that rotated their own random frequency. If they hit something that adapted, a sensor in the tip (due to physical contact) could match the frequency to the shields (like the klingons did in Generations) and it would go right through the shields. Zing! True, however the chip that Wesley and Gordie put in the phasers for TNG already did that, so there would be no need to make a projectile with randomly rotating EM shield. ZING!
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I always wondered this: If you're having problems with the Borg constantly adapting to your energy weapons, but a shit ton of replicated .45 ACP from a replicated Thompson sub-machine gun slices through a drone like nobody's business...why aren't you replicating a shit ton of machine guns and ammunition for your crew?? In DS9 it was demonstrated that this could be done. They had a super advanced sniper rifle that could shoot through walls. It had a projectile replicator on it, you gave it raw material and it would keep shooting. They specifically said any officer had authorization to access the replicator patterns, and one officer actually owned one as part of his weapon collection. Actualy the TR-116 was nothing more than Starfleets version of an AR15. Simple, easy to use, no bells or whistles. Ironsights only. Adding a microtransporter and a exographic targeting sensor was the Vulcan's idea. He would have made a fine ARFCOMER tricking a weapon out like that.
As for replicating a bunch of firearms and issuing them to the crew, not very practical. You would have to retrain everyone on how to use such a weapon which isn't a simple thing to do considering recoil, buillet drop, and having to lead a target is something you need to do with a phaser. As for the Borg adapting to protectial weapons. Yes it's possible and very likely, but it will not happen as quickly as it takes to rotate the EM frequencys of their EM shields. The drones would need a hardware upgrade to add force fields and an additional power source to power the new force fields. Edit: For the record I am not a Star Trek nerd. I'm a weapons geek!.
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I always wondered this: If you're having problems with the Borg constantly adapting to your energy weapons, but a shit ton of replicated .45 ACP from a replicated Thompson sub-machine gun slices through a drone like nobody's business...why aren't you replicating a shit ton of machine guns and ammunition for your crew?? In DS9 it was demonstrated that this could be done. They had a super advanced sniper rifle that could shoot through walls. It had a projectile replicator on it, you gave it raw material and it would keep shooting. They specifically said any officer had authorization to access the replicator patterns, and one officer actually owned one as part of his weapon collection. I remember that. I just thought it was kinda funny in that movie. If I was Captain Picard, I would be replicating Tommy Guns (at least) like mad and handing them out to everyone. Dur, the Borg adapt to whatever weapon kills the drone. Once the projectile weapon was used, the Borg adapted and if they tried to use projectile weapons again they will not work. Unless the projectiles had small EM shields on them that rotated their own random frequency. If they hit something that adapted, a sensor in the tip (due to physical contact) could match the frequency to the shields (like the klingons did in Generations) and it would go right through the shields. Zing! True, however the chip that Wesley and Gordie put in the phasers for TNG already did that, so there would be no need to make a projectile with randomly rotating EM shield. ZING! But they only had a limited range of available modulations though, correct? theoretically, the bullet being in contact with the shield could have unlimited flexibility for rotating shield frequencies. |
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Quoted: Actualy the TR-116 was nothing more than Starfleets version of an AR15. Simple, easy to use, no bells or whistles. Ironsights only. Adding a microtransporter and a exographic targeting sensor was the Vulcan's idea. He would have made a fine ARFCOMER tricking a weapon out like that. As for replicating a bunch of firearms and issuing them to the crew, not very practical. You would have to retrain everyone on how to use such a weapon which isn't a simple thing to do considering recoil, buillet drop, and having to lead a target is something you need to do with a phaser. As for the Borg adapting to protectial weapons. Yes it's possible and very likely, but it will not happen as quickly as it takes to rotate the EM frequencys of their EM shields. The drones would need a hardware upgrade to add force fields and an additional power source to power the new force fields. Edit: For the record I am not a Star Trek nerd. I'm a weapons geek!. Good post. You pretty much said what I wanted to stay about the Borg repelling a projectile weapon. My reasoning behind issuing a bunch of projectile weapons is that it's at least better than nothing. If they adapt eventually, fine. Blow up the ship. I seem to recall in Voyager as well, the Borg having armored drones and ships. It wasn't that far off into the future, but far enough where the usage of projectile weapons, even if you started rotating out materials for the projectiles, may still have been viable. If recall as well, the Borg shielding was best suited for defense against energy weapons and not projectile weapons. Didn't a few ships try ramming Borg spheres & cubes with success? I would think after the first time, the Borg would have adapted to repel those as well. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I always wondered this: If you're having problems with the Borg constantly adapting to your energy weapons, but a shit ton of replicated .45 ACP from a replicated Thompson sub-machine gun slices through a drone like nobody's business...why aren't you replicating a shit ton of machine guns and ammunition for your crew?? In DS9 it was demonstrated that this could be done. They had a super advanced sniper rifle that could shoot through walls. It had a projectile replicator on it, you gave it raw material and it would keep shooting. They specifically said any officer had authorization to access the replicator patterns, and one officer actually owned one as part of his weapon collection. I remember that. I just thought it was kinda funny in that movie. If I was Captain Picard, I would be replicating Tommy Guns (at least) like mad and handing them out to everyone. Dur, the Borg adapt to whatever weapon kills the drone. Once the projectile weapon was used, the Borg adapted and if they tried to use projectile weapons again they will not work. Like they've adapted to being hit with fists right? The don't really have 'memory' of their adaptations... And just like the Thompson episode, they never seem to get engaged hand-to-hand more than once or twice per show (no one wants to get that close, lest they get stuck & assimilated).... If they were facing an enemy that primarily fought with hand-to-hand combat, but also had interesting technology or biology (remember: Borg don't give a shit about pre-technical societies)... They would adapt to that too... |
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Quoted: They could beam onto the Borg ship. I never understood why they didn't just beam a massive neutron nuke onto it. (I'm waiting for a trekie to explain that to me) Nukes are obselete in Star Trek. They DID beam a torpedo (equivalent to a ~60MT nuke) onto a Borg ship in Voyager.... In TNG, the Borg they were facing had adapted to transporters, and they could only 'beam in' by getting a shuttle right next to the Cube.... |
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They could beam onto the Borg ship. I never understood why they didn't just beam a massive neutron nuke onto it. In TNG, the Borg they were facing had adapted to transporters, and they could only 'beam in' by getting a shuttle right next to the Cube.... (I'm waiting for a trekie to explain that to me) Nukes are obselete in Star Trek. They DID beam a torpedo (equivalent to a ~60MT nuke) onto a Borg ship in Voyager.... I think tricobalt were a form of "nuke" and are still used from time to time but your right they are nothing compared to the awsome power of a quantum torpedo 
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Quoted: The don't really have 'memory' of their adaptations... And just like the Thompson episode, they never seem to get engaged hand-to-hand more than once or twice per show (no one wants to get that close, lest they get stuck & assimilated).... If they were facing an enemy that primarily fought with hand-to-hand combat, but also had interesting technology or biology (remember: Borg don't give a shit about pre-technical societies)... They would adapt to that too... But even if it's once or twice repeatedly over the course of X years, you would think that a drone would eventually come up with a personal shield to defend them from people physically advancing on them. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Nukes are obsolete in Star Trek.They could beam onto the Borg ship. I never understood why they didn't just beam a massive neutron nuke onto it. (I'm waiting for a trekie to explain that to me) They DID beam a torpedo (equivalent to a ~60MT nuke) onto a Borg ship in Voyager.... In TNG, the Borg they were facing had adapted to transporters, and they could only 'beam in' by getting a shuttle right next to the Cube.... And as I said earlier Janeway was pissed as she only wanted to 'disable' the borg.  |
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Quoted: Quoted: But even if it's once or twice repeatedly over the course of X years, you would think that a drone would eventually come up with a personal shield to defend them from people physically advancing on them.The don't really have 'memory' of their adaptations... And just like the Thompson episode, they never seem to get engaged hand-to-hand more than once or twice per show (no one wants to get that close, lest they get stuck & assimilated).... If they were facing an enemy that primarily fought with hand-to-hand combat, but also had interesting technology or biology (remember: Borg don't give a shit about pre-technical societies)... They would adapt to that too... The borg need to touch you so that they can assimilate you. A personal force field would work both ways. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: But even if it's once or twice repeatedly over the course of X years, you would think that a drone would eventually come up with a personal shield to defend them from people physically advancing on them.The don't really have 'memory' of their adaptations... And just like the Thompson episode, they never seem to get engaged hand-to-hand more than once or twice per show (no one wants to get that close, lest they get stuck & assimilated).... If they were facing an enemy that primarily fought with hand-to-hand combat, but also had interesting technology or biology (remember: Borg don't give a shit about pre-technical societies)... They would adapt to that too... The borg need to touch you so that they can assimilate you. A personal force field would work both ways. They do, but if they create a force field in such a way where the assailant "bounces off" or becomes incapacitated, it may be easier for the drone to assimilate the assailant. If that makes sense. And what drone that has any sense let alone a whole hive of them is going to stand there and watch an angry someone with a bat'leth or a even just a hoe comes at them? As far as drone-retention it would make sense for the drone to have some kind of protection––like I said later, we see them have armor. Well, why do they need armor? Idk. It's Star Trek, and what fan is not going to tell you it is wrought with plotholes and inconsistencies? And who on this site wouldn't like to see for once, Starfleet's phasers getting pwned against their greatest adversary by a crew carrying Thompson Sub-Machine guns? |
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I always wondered this: If you're having problems with the Borg constantly adapting to your energy weapons, but a shit ton of replicated .45 ACP from a replicated Thompson sub-machine gun slices through a drone like nobody's business...why aren't you replicating a shit ton of machine guns and ammunition for your crew?? In DS9 it was demonstrated that this could be done. They had a super advanced sniper rifle that could shoot through walls. It had a projectile replicator on it, you gave it raw material and it would keep shooting. They specifically said any officer had authorization to access the replicator patterns, and one officer actually owned one as part of his weapon collection. I remember that. I just thought it was kinda funny in that movie. If I was Captain Picard, I would be replicating Tommy Guns (at least) like mad and handing them out to everyone. Dur, the Borg adapt to whatever weapon kills the drone. Once the projectile weapon was used, the Borg adapted and if they tried to use projectile weapons again they will not work. You mean out of all the species the Borg Encountered they NEVER encountered a Projectile Weapon before? How about all the times that we have seen them punched, buttstoked, and Bat'leth'ed?, wouldn't that be the same principle? |
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grenades, hell they still would get the shit knocked out of them by the pressure wave. Just issue an ass ton of extra high powered M67 frags. A small confined space like a room with a closed door would make it very nasty for any of those borg unlucky enough to be inside.
A note on the adapting to weapons. Maybe it's easier to dissipate electrical or whatever alternative energy source than it would to use a shield against a physical object such as a bullet. Hell maybe they should have started replicating battle axes and chainsaws.... |
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I always wondered this: If you're having problems with the Borg constantly adapting to your energy weapons, but a shit ton of replicated .45 ACP from a replicated Thompson sub-machine gun slices through a drone like nobody's business...why aren't you replicating a shit ton of machine guns and ammunition for your crew?? In DS9 it was demonstrated that this could be done. They had a super advanced sniper rifle that could shoot through walls. It had a projectile replicator on it, you gave it raw material and it would keep shooting. They specifically said any officer had authorization to access the replicator patterns, and one officer actually owned one as part of his weapon collection. Actualy the TR-116 was nothing more than Starfleets version of an AR15. Simple, easy to use, no bells or whistles. Ironsights only. Adding a microtransporter and a exographic targeting sensor was the Vulcan's idea. He would have made a fine ARFCOMER tricking a weapon out like that.
As for replicating a bunch of firearms and issuing them to the crew, not very practical. You would have to retrain everyone on how to use such a weapon which isn't a simple thing to do considering recoil, buillet drop, and having to lead a target is something you need to do with a phaser. As for the Borg adapting to protectial weapons. Yes it's possible and very likely, but it will not happen as quickly as it takes to rotate the EM frequencys of their EM shields. The drones would need a hardware upgrade to add force fields and an additional power source to power the new force fields. Edit: For the record I am not a Star Trek nerd. I'm a weapons geek!. No bullet drop in space and typical firefight ranges [which seem to be about what they are today] would make bullet drop a moot point unless you had trained long range snipers that would still have to be trained already to target the correct target, teaching them bullet drop wouldn't be a terribly hard thing to do with rangefinders and automatic scope compensators. |
