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Posted: 1/24/2002 9:51:16 AM EDT
Judge Declares Him "Dangerous to Society" and Locks Him Up Until Sentencing by Angel Shamaya January 23, 2002 PHOENIX, Arizona (KeepAndBearArms.com) — What began as an undercover operation by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms in April 2000 concluded with a "guilty" verdict from an Arizona jury today — Bob Stewart's detention hearing is expected on the 1st of February, and his sentencing hearing takes place some time before April of this year. (If you have no idea who Bob Stewart is or what this is all about, links below lead you to many past stories covering this case.) According to Mr. Stewart's wife Naomi, mother of their three young boys, the judge declared Bob "a flight risk and a danger to society," and sent him straight to jail to await sentencing. Said Mrs. Stewart, "they wouldn't even let me give him a goodbye hug before they took him away." "They wouldn't even let me give him a goodbye hug before they took him away." —Naomi Stewart, after watching her husband being whisked off to jail to await sentencing for the "crime" of exercising his second amendment rights Mr. Stewart's court-appointed defense attorney, Mr. Haney, stood up in Stewart's defense, telling Judge Roslyn O. Silver that Stewart was obviously the model case of "non flight risk" — Bob Stewart worked on his own defense, attended every court hearing and responded to all motions on time, managed his household and replaced lost income, all on his own recognizance. The judge said Stewart's deliberately flaunting the laws and the views he's expressed in defiance of those laws led her to conclude that he needed to wait behind bars for sentencing. Originally investigated by BATF because his .50BMG gun kits were thought by the federal agency to be "readily converted" into guns, Mr. Stewart's aggressors conveniently dropped all concerns over the kits and their alleged "ready conversion". During their invasion of his home and workshop — a "raid" in which one agent pointed a machinegun at their 7-year-old boy — BATF allegedly found numerous firearms, five of which were unregistered machine guns. Stewart's "jury of his peers" found him guilty of being a felon in possession of guns and of five counts of possessing unregistered machine guns. THE LAST DAY IN COURT Yesterday was the final day of courtroom proceedings before the case was handed to the jury. During the final day, Stewart called his witnesses, closing arguments were presented from both sides, and the judge gave the jury its "jury instructions." ... STEWART'S WITNESSES Bob Stewart opted to call two people to the stand. The first was the undercover federal agent who purchased a Maadi-Griffin .50 caliber kit from Stewart. The next was the case agent who oversaw the investigation. The undercover BATF agent who pretended to be a customer of Bob Stewart's was a fellow by the name of Scott Tannabe (sp?). Stewart asked the agent how many times he attempted to entice him to break the law by completing his gun kit — the agent confessed to having done so a number of times. They drew their guns on Stewart's [b]7yearold son![/b]!! Pissed off...I am. [b][blue]NAKED[/blue][/b]
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:56:17 AM EDT
-MORE- Though I missed jury selection in Mesa, Arizona gunkit maker Bob Stewart's trial proceedings, a couple of people who attended the fiasco freely shared their thoughts of what transpired. According to one man, Mr. Stewart sought to deny one potential juror's participation after she proclaimed that she believed nobody should be allowed to own a gun. The judge denied Mr. Stewart's request, reportedly saying that the woman could still stand as an impartial juror. Another witness to the jury selection (tampering) process said he believes that -- based on what he witnessed -- eleven of the thirteen jurors are mildly to severely anti-gun in their leanings. A third gentleman said he wondered if the original jury pool was hand selected from either the ACLU mailing list or based on their being registered Democrats. Also reported was an exchange Mr. Stewart had with the judge during the jury selection process. Mr. Stewart asked a question regarding whether or not a certain juror supported the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. The judge reportedly stopped that line of questions and said that those issues were not going to be addressed in this trial. NO SATISFACTION, NO DICE Bob Stewart has been defending himself pro per for the last year or so. His court-appointed counsel, Mr. Haney, has been by his side the whole time, but it's Mr. Stewart who is conducting cross-examination of witnesses, making arguments in the form of questions, etc. Through Thursday's cross examination process, Mr. Stewart attempted to address many of the issues people on our side consider to be fundamental to a fair trial were repeatedly rebuked by the judge. For example, the following issues are banned from the jury's ears: whether or not the BATF has jurisdiction over firearms manufactured within a state that have never traveled in interstate commerce the nature of where BATF's jurisdiction begins and ends whether or not BATF could/should have taken an administrative course of action (a friendly phone call or a knock on Mr. Stewart's door) to address their concerns about the legality of Mr. Stewart's gun kit they've determined to be a gun the definition of "readily converted," which was the basis for BATF's justification for their raid of his property and the prosecution against him (Nowhere in BATF's code of regulations is the term "readily converted" defined.) whether or not BATF was negligent in not having checked to see if Mr. Stewart's firearms rights had been restored before proceeding against him as if he were prohibited from possessing a firearm the accuracy and validity of the search warrant Totally disgusting!!! [b][blue]NAKED[/blue][/b]
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 9:58:32 AM EDT
Rest of the article...I'm running out of ink and patience...this sucks. http://www.keepandbeararms.com/newsarchives/XcNewsPlus.asp?cmd=view&articleid=2218 Does the BATF do [b]ANYTHING[/b] worth while???/ Any Effing thing at all?? Damn, I'm tired of these sob's... [b][blue]NAKED[/blue][/b]
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 10:04:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2002 10:04:57 AM EDT by Norm_G]
I think I see the problem.
Originally Posted By NAKED-GUNMAN: Judge Declares Him "Dangerous to Society" and Locks Him Up Until Sentencing The judge said Stewart's deliberately flaunting the laws and the views he's expressed in defiance of those laws led [size=6][red]her [/size=6][/red]to conclude that he needed to wait behind bars for sentencing.
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Link Posted: 1/24/2002 10:04:45 AM EDT
This is war, after all, and 'there but for the grace of God' go we all. That is the bad news, the good news is that we are all aware that it [b]is[/b] a war, and that our fellow citizens are [b]not[/b] the least bit patient or desirous in having the history and rationale for our RKBA, explained to them! If you told the great majority of civilians that it was legally possible to buy, sell, and possess fully automatic machine guns in most states, they would be dumbstruck and demand that such foolishness end immediately! So, 'be wise as serpents', and guide yourself accordingly. What Mr. Stewart was accused of doing was so harmless that it would apall the Founding Fathers that he was not given a medal for his ingenuity, but a jail sentence instead! So much for trials by your peers! Too bad, however, that Mr. Stewart decided to fight this on his own! He needed some Dream Team representation, you know, the kind 'Jihad' Johnny Walker is getting! Eric The([i][b]'ApresMoi,LeDeluge'[/b][/i])Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 10:10:48 AM EDT
BATF was negligent in not having checked to see if Mr. Stewart's firearms rights had been restored before proceeding against him as if he were prohibited from possessing a firearm
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Read the above carefully. If the BATF, as they did in this case, doesn't have to check to see if a person has had their rights restored before obtaining a search warrant, then any individual in this position can have the BATF search their home at any time simply on the suspicion of possessing a firearm. Note, this doesn't just apply to felons. It applies to anyone who in the past meet any of the prohibitions in the long (and growing longer) list. It's at times like these that I'm thankful I grew-up in a good home, and that I didn't do anything stupid when I was a youth.z
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 10:15:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: He needed some Dream Team representation, you know, the kind 'Jihad' Johnny Walker is getting! Eric The([i][b]'ApresMoi,LeDeluge'[/b][/i])Hun[>]:)]
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Even as an attorney specializing in Construction Law and not Criminal Defence(sic)you should be aware that...."IF THE TURBAN DON'T FIT YOU GOT TO ACQUIT !" [:D]
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 10:30:21 AM EDT
I hope Mr. Stewart can afford the appeals process. There are plenty of irregularities in this case (like how his rights were retroactively restored by an Arizona judge--then the judge stayed his own ruling several days later at the request of BATF.) Here's hoping Mr. Stewart wins the vindication he deserves.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 10:39:15 AM EDT
I [Z. D. Wilson] didn't do anything stupid when I was a youth.
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Err, I did plenty of stupid things when I was young. I should have said something illegal. PS: This case really (excuse my language) pisses me off. Click-on the link to read the rest of the story. Also, near the bottom of the page is link to a story about how the BATF does not recognize the restoration of his rights by an Arizona judge. I've never lost my temper with anyone. I've never raised my voice to my wife or to anyone else that I can remember since getting out of the army. I consider many of the posters here to be overreactionary, immature people (no offense to those of you who aren't). But, if I was Bob Stewart, I would have already jumped over the bench to get at the judge's throat. If this is enough to make me consider violence, how does Bob Stewart feel? He has my sympathy, and he has my respect for the restraint he has shown in court (I'm assuming he has since he hasn't been charged with contempt). I just wish he had a good lawyer. I don't have much, but I'm willing to forgo a few meals and a little heat (2 degrees off the thermostat can save a lot of power) to contribute. I just wish we could help.z
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 10:41:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2002 10:27:24 AM EDT by mr_wilson]
Here's a WoldNet Daily article which indicates how Mr Stewart got into this mess to begin with, can you spell [b]entrapment[/b]? http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=17532 [red]THIS ARTICLE IS WRONG ABOUT HOW HE WAS ENTRAPPED IN THE 1994 CASE, please see my later post on my conversation w/ Mrs. Smith!!!![/red] Mike
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 10:54:16 AM EDT
EricTheHun: This is war, after all, and 'there but for the grace of God' go we all.
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It is. So, where do we start, or is it already too late for us to (legally) do any damned thing? It'd take a leader smarter than me to know the right answer. I've done all of the obvious "right" things, like voting the right way, paying through the nose to NRA, etc. I've also done a lot of "not so obvious" things like making sure I'm 100% responsible, 100% or the time with the tools (that I'm afraid we're about to fight for -- again!). Taught countless kids, even a few ex-antis how to use 'em, respect 'em, even have some level of passion for them, AND especially for the amendment that protects them. But I feel like we're kinda boxed-in right now, & the walls are closing...
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 11:04:11 AM EDT
If they had a warrant that will stand and he had 5 unregistered machine guns he is screwed. What was the warrant based on?
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 11:20:47 AM EDT
[b]What was the warrant based on?[/b] The Raid Mr. Stewart operated his Maadi-Griffin company in full view of the law, advertised on the web and in all the trade journals and sold a number of kits. This began to worry the BATF and the Clinton administration. It wasn't long before BATF decided to raid Mr. Stewart. A "fishing trip" according to an inside source close to the BATF. A Federal Agent purchased a kit from Mr. Stewart. The agent tried to get Mr. Stewart to assemble and complete the kit for him which Mr. Stewart refused to do. The agent himself then completed the kit enough for the firing pin to discharge a primer on a cartridge (in effect altering the evidence?) and presented it to a Judge to obtain a warrant to search Mr. Stewart's residence. The rifle was by no means completed due to the additional required machining, head spacing and hardening requirements. Had it been used to fire an actual cartridge, the rifle could have possibly blown up. I know this as fact from my own background in machining. The agent's claim was that Mr. Stewart was selling illegal guns through the Internet. The warrant was granted and in typical fashion, the agents stormed Mr. Stewart's residence. Now Mr. Stewart isn't some recluse hiding out in some cabin somewhere. He is a devout Mormon with a wife and 3 children, he lives in an upscale neighborhood. Agents spent the entire day at his home combing it from top to bottom. They allegedly found a handgun and other evidence. This was what they wanted to find. This would make Mr. Stewart a felon in possession of a gun, a serious Federal crime, so they claim. (Interestingly, during the time very close to the raid on Mr. Stewart, former president Clinton passed legislation that, among other things, barred the import of the surplus M2 barrels specified in the Maadi-Griffin plans.) Mike PS - his troubles started w/ the article in my above post.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 11:31:09 AM EDT
How many more cases like Mr. Stewart's is it going to take until we say, "ENOUGH!" How amny more innocent Americans are going to be railroaded inot jail? If anyone deserves to be assisted out of jail, it is Mr Stewart.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 12:01:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 12:02:26 PM EDT
Assisted out of jail?? He's an idiot. There but for the grace of intelligence go I.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 12:04:36 PM EDT
paspecops: How many more cases like Mr. Stewart's is it going to take until we say, "ENOUGH!" How amny more innocent Americans are going to be railroaded inot jail? If anyone deserves to be assisted out of jail, it is Mr Stewart.
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Not many, maybe none at all. I'm just about ready to say "ENOUGH" right now. I've been frettin' over the next thing I'm not "allowed" to have since 1968, the latest is "Will he, or won't he" (let that twisted bastard of the "law" of '94 drop straight into hell).
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 12:20:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JIMBEAM: If they had a warrant that will stand and he had 5 unregistered machine guns he is screwed. What was the warrant based on?
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From what I've read here, it seems the warrant was based on the illegal possession, manufacture, and sale of firearms. Under federal law if it "may readily be converted" to fire a projectile, it is a firearm. As a felon, Stewart was prohibited from possessing any firearms. The Tech Branch at BATF would have been the ones to consult for a determination as to whether his kits were readily convertable (and thus firearms)or not. If they were indeed readily convertable (and thus firearms), then he also committed a felony by the unlicensed manufacture, and the sale of those "firearms" across state lines to individuals without an FFL. The fact that the agent tried to get Stewart to make a complete gun was just BATF's attempt to get the icing on the cake. It sucks but in a few important respects, Bob Stewart dug his own hole. Had it just been the questionable nature of the kits, he might have been ok if he had a good lawyer handle it. However, he first fucked himself by having the unregistered MG's there. Once they got in on a valid warrant and found the guns...especially the unregistered MG's, he was completely screwed(regardless of whether the charges that warrant were initially based on panned out or not). Had he not been so public about what he was doing BATF might never have noticed (selling kits and advertising in SGN???). I mean, if you're going to do something illegal, at least try not to attract unwanted attention. Advertising parts kits (whether they were readily convertable or not) in SGN will throw up flags at BATF if they know the seller is a felon. Having guns, especially unregistered machineguns in your possession at the same time? Now thats just stupid.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 12:22:58 PM EDT
Let me get this straight, the dumbass plea bargained. Not that I have anything agaainst him, but that was stupid. Further more, his lawyer should have been disbarred for allowing it.
A couple of days later, according to Gritz, two men entered Stewart's shop with an AR-15 and asked him to "tighten the scope." As soon as Stewart applied a screwdriver to the weapon, the two men pulled out their ATF badges and arrested him because the AR-15 had been modified to fire fully automatically.
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In light of what is said here, a decent lawyer would have taken the case to trial and used U.S. vs. Staples to get him off. In Staples, the Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) ruled that if you do not know a weapon will fire full-automic then you have not violated the NFA. The ruling is cut and dry, the AR-15 was modified by the ATF and he had no idea, so he didn't break the law. As far as the current case, he needs to appeal on several grounds: 1) Improperly Obtained Search Warrant. 2) Tampering with Evidence. 3) Lack of Juristdiction (Interstate Commerce.)
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 12:28:22 PM EDT
This stinks of a setup/planting evidence. Do not assume the guns were his just because the ATF claims to have found them. They were there for an hour and a half unsupervised after he was taken away.
WorldNetDaily spoke to the well-known and highly-decorated former Green Beret/talk show host, Bo Gritz, who is a friend of the Stewarts. Mrs. Stewart, who was briefly handcuffed during the raid, told Gritz the federal agents were at the house from 7 a.m. until about 5:30 p.m., and confiscated all their records and inventory, according to Gritz. Bob Stewart was taken away at about 4 p.m. According to Gritz, Naomi Stewart said that when the BATF claimed to find about 40 guns in their house, her husband Bob whispered into her ear: "Those are not our guns; they're planting those guns." Gritz told WorldNetDaily the Stewarts were living in Utah about six years ago when Bob Stewart was featured on two magazine covers with his self-designed rifle. The BATF subsequently raided his store and asked him to stop building the Maadi-Griffin. He refused to comply, based on the Second Amendment.
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Link Posted: 1/24/2002 12:33:41 PM EDT
"Now they had him working on an illegal machine gun," said Gritz. "His wife told me they didn't have a lawyer, and the government talked them into plea bargaining." The resulting felony charge made Stewart unable legally to possess a firearm, leaving him facing a 10-year sentence for each gun reportedly found in his home on Friday.
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I take back what I said about his lawyer being disbarred since it appears he represented himself. He should be knocked up the side of the head for plea bargaining when he was clearly in the right per U.S. vs. Staples. Then again, how many of you actually know aout this ruling. Was he offered counsel ? If not, he should use that to attempt to overturn his previous plea-bargain.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 12:42:33 PM EDT
Let me see if I can get the sequence of events correct. 1) Stewart begins making Maadi-Griffin kit. 2) President gets pissed and the ATF gets involved. 3) ATF comes to his shop demanding he quit selling w/ no grounds. 4) He refuses to quit selling his product. 5) Undercover ATF Agents ask him to adjust the scope on their AR-15. 6) He is arrested becuase the AR-15 was actually an M16. 7) The ATF puts the screws on him, threatens his wife and family until he plea-bargains. 8) He continues making the kit. 9) The ATF decides they are going to do something about it. 10) An ATF agent buys one of his kits and finishes it. 11) The agent presents the finished gun to a judge and obtains a warrant. 12) His place is raided and he is taken away. 13) The ATF plants 40 guns including a half dozen MGs in his home. 14) He is officialy charged. 15) The Voir-Dire process is fucked up when jurors that are ardently anti-gun are allowed over his lawyers objections about their impartiality. 16) The judge who is ardently anti-gun does everything he can to ensure a conviction. 17) He is convicted by a jury of Anti-Gun Liberals and sentenced by an Anti-Gun judge. These are sufficient grounds a million times over for appeal.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 12:42:58 PM EDT
Are these kits easily converted to a weapon? If he is selling all the parts to make it function isn't he is selling/manufacturing a firearm? When it was stated they found 40 firearms are these the kits or other weapons? If these are other weapons and he has a felony conviction I must say again he is SCREWED. I am not trying to fan the fire. I just want to get the facts straight.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 12:59:30 PM EDT
As much as I may dislike the 'Dream Team' approach for which some criminal defense attorneys are well known, there are times when such an approach is absolutely necessary and that is when the government appears to have gone off the deepend and when fundamental rights are involved. Both of which apply in Mr. Stewart's case. That said, I will have to admit that it two ATF agents came up to me and told me that there was something wrong that I was doing, I think I would stop doing it until I received clarification on what it was that I was doing wrong and whether or not the agents were correct! 'Cause even if Mr. Stewart does win a new trial and is acquitted, or an appellate court throws out his conviction, his life will have been irretrievably damaged and both he and his family will have suffered enormous economic losses! Such is the power of unfettered government! Eric The(Tiny-voiced)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 1:00:46 PM EDT
So Naked-Gunman can I assume from this that you support the rights of convicted felons to be able to possess firearms including those regulated by NFA and unregistered?
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 1:02:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2002 1:44:02 PM EDT by cc48510]
He was selling a parts kit with an 80% Receiver. This has always been legal. These are the same type of receivers (80%) that Tannery Shop sells. If they get him on this, the door is opened to prosecute anybody who sells 80% Receivers or Receiver Flats. But, there was a US District Court ruling involving MAC receiver flats which are 100% receivers that simply need to be bent 90 degrees in several places and then be welded. This is easier than using a mill, drill press, etc...to finish an 80% Reciever. Yet, this was ruled legal.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 1:07:55 PM EDT
Iread somewhere that Stewart challeged the ATF agent that "readily converted" the kit to fire a .50BMG in his conversion, and he refused, probably because he knew it would blow up in his face. That does'nt make it a firearm in my book, but a bomb. Also, call me paranoid, but I'm not so sure I believe the allegation of illegal MG's either.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 1:09:43 PM EDT
This is very disturbing. Is there anything we can do to help this fellow out? Please let me know. My first instinct is to write the BATF a letter, but we all know what that's good for-- pissing in the wind.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 1:14:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2002 1:16:40 PM EDT by 5subslr5]
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: 'Cause even if Mr. Stewart does win a new trial and is acquitted, or an appellate court throws out his conviction, his life will have been irretrievably damaged and both he and his family will have suffered enormous economic losses! Such is the power of unfettered government! Eric The(Tiny-voiced)Hun[>]:)]
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(I know of no E. T. Hun's capable of speaking in a "tiny" voice.) I fought a bitter twelve year battle with the IRS. I fought the government with my money while the government fought me with all of our money. The consequences to both my family and myself were..........not good.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 1:18:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 1:41:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2002 1:42:38 PM EDT by cnatra]
Originally Posted By NAKED-GUNMAN: Rest of the article...I'm running out of ink and patience...this sucks. [url]www.keepandbeararms.com/newsarchives/XcNewsPlus.asp?cmd=view&articleid=2218[/url] tired of these sob's... [/b]
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Link Posted: 1/24/2002 3:25:41 PM EDT
David, Where does it say he was a convicted felon? "Possessing" unregistered firearms? [b]HELL YES!![/b] You damn right...the Government has [b]NO[/b] right to know what weapons I possess! Period. Does the 2nd ammendment say..the right to keep and bear only "registered" firearms??? [b]NO![/b] If he were a convicted felon..."depending upon the charge" ex; murder,drugs,rape,violent crimes, no, he just lost his rights to firearms. The point of the post was to show how he was "baited" by the Naz..err..BATF and then had a rigged jury against him. This is legal? Does the judge have the right to do that?? Hell no...she's a liberal constitution bender. How do I know? Liberals all have the same m.o. Take away as many rights of Americans as you possibly can...and call it "safety" or hateful actions. Nonsense and bulls***, I'm tired of singling out gun owners of America for "illegal" activities and "dangerous" lifestyles. No sheep in my house... only lions, tigers and bears. [b][blue]NAKED[/blue][/b]
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 3:53:39 PM EDT
If you read the article carefully, his supposed Felony was this: Undercover ATF Agents brought an AR-15 into his shop and asked him to adjust the scope mount. As soon as he did so, they busted his ass. Guess what, the ATF had converted the AR-15 to Full-Auto. He broke no laws. The ATF put the screws on him and threatened to arrest his wife also. So, he plea bargained. So, he ended up with a Felony conviction for something that the Supreme Court had ruled wasn't illegal. In U.S. vs. Staples, the majority opinion of the court with I believe Stevens dissenting ruled that in order to be convicted under the National Firearms Act (which was the focus of the case, but could also apply to other firearms charges) a person must know that the gun was a Machine Gun. If the person charged believed it to be a Semi-Automatic, then they didn't knowingly violate the law and therefore shouldn't have been arrested in the first place. This is really important in regards that it creates a new burden on the ATF to prove a person knew the gun was a MG. This means if you buy an AR at a gun show and it has M16 parts which you are unaware of, you can use this ruling when the ATF arrests you. Instead of trying this in court where they would have lost, they coerced him into plea bargaining.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 4:43:53 PM EDT
Thanks cc, The whole freaking point is, BATF are not into "enforcing", they are enticing and trapping now. How perverted is that? Power does weird things to people...they are officially out of control IMO. They are renegades and not "protecting" the average American citizen. I think congress needs to find better terms of service and MORE accountablity. They are in a pr nightmare..and will not get better until they're standards are questioned and re-measured. They suck...and they know they suck. Can't find a criminal? Make one. I'm writing letters now, [b][blue]NAKED[/blue][/b]
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 4:47:19 PM EDT
Can someone please point to an original reference for the first felony conviction, and to this conviction? There's an awful lot of speculating going on here. Would the actual court papers be online somewhere?
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 5:34:45 PM EDT
It is in the worldnet daily article.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 5:51:48 PM EDT
No, more objective please. Anyone?
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 6:02:26 PM EDT
A lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client. Same for non-lawyer's. A defendant can't adequately defend himself in a jury trial. There's more to a jury trial then the evidence and papers.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 6:14:07 PM EDT
OK dumb question here regarding US v Staples. If Mr Stewert was arrested and charged then plead guilty to something that was legal how is he a felon. To put it another way if a cop walks up to me and charges me with the felony charge of smoking in my car in my driveway and I plead guilty to it even though it is legal (although at the time I do not know it) I am now a felon sitting in jail for doing something perfectly legal?
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 7:04:39 PM EDT
ADTECH, they have to charge you with a specific offense. I.E. specify a statute. But, beyond that...they can charge you with attempted murder for smoking in your house...and if you plea bargain, they do not have to actually face the fact that the charge is a joke.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 7:11:36 PM EDT
What I'm having trouble with is that HE knew he was a felon, THEY knew he was a felon, and he continued to do things he KNEW was against the law to do (possessing ANY firearms- including, apparently a revolver). Dumb. Anbody interested in the actual motion to suppress evidence from 2/26/01, can see it here... [url]http://www.azd.uscourts.gov/azd/courtopinions.nsf/A9E590F078F7289907256A0000591F74/$file/00-698.pdf?openelement[/url] Since the only people talking about this are gunnuts on gunnut boards, I'd be interested in seeing the actual findings for the case he just lost and the Utah felony conviction. Can any legal eagles out there find it for us?
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 1:57:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NAKED-GUNMAN: Thanks cc, The whole freaking point is, BATF are not into "enforcing", they are enticing and trapping now. How perverted is that? Power does weird things to people...they are officially out of control IMO. They are renegades and not "protecting" the average American citizen. I think congress needs to find better terms of service and MORE accountablity. They are in a pr nightmare..and will not get better until they're standards are questioned and re-measured. They suck...and they know they suck. Can't find a criminal? Make one. I'm writing letters now, [b][blue]NAKED[/blue][/b]
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NG is right as this had been their agenda for quite some time, here's the proof: [b]Read the Committee print of “The Right to Keep and Bear Arms”; Report of the Subcommittee on the Constitution of the Committee on the Judiciary/ US. Senate, 97th Congress, Second Session, published in February 1982. (Excerpts from pages 19-23) “Based upon these hearings it is apparent that enforcement tactics made possible by current federal firearms laws are constitutionally, legally, and practically reprehensible. Although Congress adopted the Gun Control Act with the primary object of limiting access of felons and high-risk groups to firearms, the overbreadth of the law has led to neglect of precisely this area of enforcement.” “The Bureau’s (BATF) own figures demonstrate that in recent years the percentage of its arrests devoted to felons in possession and persons knowingly selling to them have dropped from 14% down to 10% of their firearms cases.” “Yet, subsequent to these hearings, BATF stated that 55% of its gun law prosecutions overall involve persons with no record of a felony conviction, and a third involve citizens with no prior police contact at all. The Subcommittee received evidence that BATF has primarily devoted its firearm enforcement efforts to the apprehension, upon technical malum prohibitum charges, of individuals who lack all criminal intent and knowledge.” “These practices, amply documented in hearings before this Subcommittee, leave little doubt that the Bureau has disregarded rights guaranteed by the constitution and the laws of the United States. It has trampled upon the second amendment by chilling exercise of the right to keep and bear arms by law-abiding citizens. It has offended the fourth amendment by unreasonably searching and seizing property. It has ignored the Fifth Amendment by taking private property without just compensation and by entrapping honest citizens without regard for their right to due process of law.” Some of you may be willing to ignore these facts and prefer not to be informed of those in Congress attempting to warn us of the corruption inside our government. I for one tend to keep a close eye on these yahoos and these comments above are not mine. They are those of people we elected. Anyone wishing a copy of the entire report (which was produced in 1982 in a paperback and no longer available) can contact me and I’ll send you a Xerox of it. Readers of “Unintended Consequences” will be familiar w/ it.[/b] Mike
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 7:14:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2002 7:47:45 AM EDT by DK-Prof]
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 7:52:00 AM EDT
The problem is in finding the original court documents from the 1994 conviction. He plead guilty to a felony, but the only descriptions I can find of what he did to get busted in the first place come from gunnut websites (not that there's anything wrong with that... [;)]) What's interesting to me is the apparent inability of many here to be critical of "one of our own"- so many take the attitude that Stewart was some freedom-fighting angel of the gun-culture, set up and cut down by the forces of darkness. That's why I want the original sources to check it out and make up my own mind.
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 7:55:57 AM EDT
Right! If you read the court document I linked, you'll see that even Bob himself says the kits are "easily converted", requiring only minimal work to mill out two slots or something. Maybe there's more involved, but clearly they are intended to be easy to make work. Eventually the guy got busted for "felon in possession of firearms", though, not the kits themselves, IIRC. Are the kits also deemed illegal?
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 8:28:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 8:32:39 AM EDT
You're known by the company you keep...
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 9:11:21 AM EDT
Point is his 1st conviction (The Felony) was a load of shit. He didn't do anything wrong. This most recent case is questionable, because several of his friends say the ATF planted guns. And, I believe them. Also, how many of those guns were actually kits. Kinda makes you wonder if the STEN Gun was actually a Tapco kit and 80% Receiver Tube. Were any of them actually completee firearms and how many did the ATF plant. I doubt he had even 1 gun in his home. Most likely 90% of those 40 guns were kits that the ATF decided were "easily converted". How many did the ATF plant in their unsupervised hour and a half in his home. Case and point: CALL YOUR LAWYER AND TELL HIM TO VIDEO TAPE EVERYTHING THE ATF DOES. THE ARE LIARS, THIEVES, AND CRIMINALS. DO NOT TRUST THEM. AND FOR GOD'S SAKE DO NOT LET THEM SEARCH YOUR HOUSE UNSUPERVISED.
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 9:32:19 AM EDT
Comes into his shop and asks him to adjust the scope on an AR-15 that was illegaly modified, then cuff him. Correct me if I am wrong but there really isn't any external difference between a preban, and a preban with a unregistered DIAS is there? Dosn't that scream of entrapment?
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 10:19:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2002 10:41:15 AM EDT by mr_wilson]
I just got off the phone w/ Mrs. Stewart what follows is the nut-shell account of the 1994 Felony conviction, from her lips: [b][red]The WoldNet Daily article which stated "that 2 agents tricked him into tightening the scope on an illegally modified AR is wrong and not factual".[/red] Bob had a gun-shop and a young friend whom lived life on the shady side of the law. This young man did drugs and ran w/ the wild crowd and had several illegally modified weapons. He was busted by the FBI. In order to reduce his sentence he went to work for the Feds, entraping others in a sting operation. He came to Bob and asked if Bob would build some FA Sten weapons, Bob not having a license to do so refused, however the young man convinced him that Bob could build them under his license (which he did not have!). By her own admission Bob was not too bright here and without checking his friends(?) credentials proceeded to build and convert Sten guns. While the agents who busted him, did not have a warrent when they entered his shop, upon viewing parts involved in the making of the the Sten guns they pulled pistols and threatened him in full view of his wife and childern. Again by her own admission Bob made a bad mistake, by signing away his 4th ammendment right against illegal search. While there were several other details like the Judge in the case feuding w/ the US attorney in Utah over maditory sentencing issues. The short version is the Feds convinced Bob if he plead guilty that he'd walk on probation. Bob did and when the Judge asked the Fed prosecuter if they agreed with the downgrading of the charges(which involed new sentencing guidelines) they neither agreed nor disagreed which left the Judge w/ no choice but the 2 year sentence (even though the Judge said he didn't feel it was right). Bob went to jail for 18 months.[/b] IMHO she was telling the truth and as we see here my Dad's advice long ago to [b]"choose your friends son, don't be chosen by them"[/b] turns out to be sage advice. While there is no question that Bob has been currently convicted by a kangaroo court, his problems in the original case appear to be a result of his own bad choices. The end, Mike PS - My apology for posting and trusting that WorldNet Daily article had the correct story, I was wrong to believe it.
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 11:03:41 AM EDT
I have no love for the BATF. If you screw up, get convicted of a felony, your gun-owning career is over. Period. If you think you're enough of a lawyer to represent yourself in court, you better understand this right up front. If you think that "keep and bear arms" is unlimited, you are wrong. Restrictions have been placed on the First and Second Amendments and have withstood the test of time. Get over it and learn to live with it. Bob Stewart was a fool. Period. He tested the law and it blew up in his face. He should have gone back to teaching school rather than tease the BATF. 80% complete is 80% complete. The manufacturer better have damn solid evidence to this effect. In this case, he was shooting from the hip. The original intent regarding this issue was to show that Stewart's possession of these "readily convertible" kits was indeed possession of a firearm by a felon. Rather than fight this issue, BATF went to phase two, search his home. Had Stewart been a law-abiding citizen, the story would have ended there because they would have found no unregistered machine guns. Oops! The following quotes from the obviously pro-Bob Stewart article pretty well sum it up: "Federal prosecutor in this case, Mr. Batista, was given first crack at swaying the jury toward a guilty verdict. Mr. Batista was reasoned, logical, calm, collected, dispassionate, respectful, methodical, ordered and very cool-headed." "Bob Stewart's closing arguments in defense of himself, on the other hand, were very personal, impassioned and loaded with emotionality." "He closed with a plea: "in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ, I beg you to do the right thing" —and sat down with tears filling his eyes for the second time during his trial." Whoa! That's some major fodder for an appeal. A panel of judges won't have anything factual, reasoned or legal upon which to base a dismissal. A court-appointed lawyer yet Stewart still chose to present his own closing arguments? I'm sorry, but the jury had to base their decision on a well-reasoned argument supported by the facts. The only facts in this case were that Bob Stewart was a convicted felon in possession not only of firearms, but firearms illegal to possess by any citizen, regardless of their conviction record. Even if it's found that Stewart's felon status was wrong, HE STILL IS DEAD IN THE WATER FOR POSSESSION OF ILLEGAL UNREGISTERED MACHINE GUNS. Oops! I've followed this case since I saw his ads in Shotgun News for his kit. The pro-Bob Stewart crowd is painfully guilty of selective recall and downright misrepresentation of the facts in this case. Bottom line? Don't possess illegal firearms. If you do, I have no sympathy for you, and neither should any other law-abiding gun owner. Dance with the devil and you'll just get burned.
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