[ARCHIVED THREAD] - The SHTF!!! (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 6/8/2009 7:34:40 PM EDT
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It's every man for himself. Kill or be killed. Looters/killers/rapists everywhere. Complete breakdown of law and order.
When do you engage a target, and when do you let them pass, hoping your presence will go undetected? How many targets are too many for you to safely engage on your own? (these are targets that if you kill now, you won't have to worry about later. If you let them go, they may be in a more advantageous position later, making it much more dangerous for you.) What about if you have help? When do you fight, and when do you flee? Think of the scene in saving private Ryan where they encounter the machine gun nest, and think about it's modern day equivalent in a SHTF end of the world type of situation; only this time it's groups of gangbangers with AK47s) Get some! 
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It's every man for himself. Kill or be killed. Looters/killers/rapists everywhere. Complete breakdown of law and order. When do you engage a target, and when do you let them pass, hoping your presence will go undetected? How many targets are too many for you to safely engage on your own? (these are targets that if you kill now, you won't have to worry about later. If you let them go, they may be in a more advantageous position later, making it much more dangerous for you.) What about if you have help? When do you fight, and when do you flee? Think of the scene in saving private Ryan where they encounter the machine gun nest, and think about it's modern day equivalent in a SHTF end of the world type of situation; only this time it's groups of gangbangers with WASR10's) Arn't those the .22LR AK clones? Opps. I doubt I would get the whole M1A mag off before being killed on a open & flat street. The 700 from cover I bet I could get alot more. |
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It's every man for himself. Kill or be killed. Looters/killers/rapists everywhere. Complete breakdown of law and order. When do you engage a target, and when do you let them pass, hoping your presence will go undetected? How many targets are too many for you to safely engage on your own? (these are targets that if you kill now, you won't have to worry about later. If you let them go, they may be in a more advantageous position later, making it much more dangerous for you.) What about if you have help? When do you fight, and when do you flee? Think of the scene in saving private Ryan where they encounter the machine gun nest, and think about it's modern day equivalent in a SHTF end of the world type of situation; only this time it's groups of gangbangers with WASR10's) Arn't those the .22LR AK clones? AK47 clones |
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It's every man for himself. Kill or be killed. Looters/killers/rapists everywhere. Complete breakdown of law and order. When do you engage a target, and when do you let them pass, hoping your presence will go undetected? How many targets are too many for you to safely engage on your own? (these are targets that if you kill now, you won't have to worry about later. If you let them go, they may be in a more advantageous position later, making it much more dangerous for you.) What about if you have help? When do you fight, and when do you flee? Think of the scene in saving private Ryan where they encounter the machine gun nest, and think about it's modern day equivalent in a SHTF end of the world type of situation; only this time it's groups of gangbangers with WASR10's) Arn't those the .22LR AK clones? Nope. |
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they might be 22lr clones in californistan I hear the IDF replaced those tacticool 10/22's with them.  
Okay now I get the OP. If I was able to hold up in the house I would only fire when someone was trying to get in. But in a "mob" type attack I guess I would have to dump into the crowd to try and hold them off. The M1A would be fine. I doubt it would be a good idea to go "sniper" on the neighborhood though, b/c when the law comes back into order they are going to be looking for who the fuck was doing that. |
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Go out at night only. Use a good suppressed rifle (MK12 with Ops Inc can) and good night vision like the Raptor 6X. Hit and move, hit and move. Stay low, move slow and GTFO. Think Serbia. that would be my plan. How many targets do you think you could safely engage with that setup, and under those conditions? Would you kill everything you came accross as you went, or take a more stealthy approach and only shoot if you had to? Your life is on the line with whatever decision you make. |
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Too many variables to have any real answer. You could come up against a bunch of untrained punks with shiny stolen guns that can't fight for shit and than a couple of guys in flip-flops with shotguns and .357 wheelguns that end up being Navy Seals and fucking you all up. Do what you have to. |
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It's every man for himself. Kill or be killed. Looters/killers/rapists everywhere. Complete breakdown of law and order. When this is the case, I do the same thing I always do at Wal-Mart...go to the jewelry counter to check out, because nobody else ever thinks of it.
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Too many variables to have any real answer. You could come up against a bunch of untrained punks with shiny stolen guns that can't fight for shit and than a couple of guys in flip-flops with shotguns and .357 wheelguns that end up being Navy Seals and fucking you all up. Do what you have to. Would you kill everything you came accross (that was armed and posed a threat) as you went, or take a more stealthy approach and only shoot if you had to? |
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Depends on what kind of S is hitting the F. In most cases, I'm going to recognize that I'm not rambo. I'm not looking for trouble. I have a family to protect. You and your family are STUCK where you are. You cannot get out by vehicle safely. all the freeways are bogged down with burned cars and such. YOU ARE STUCK. Rioting/looting/raping/murder is everywhere, and you can tell it's making it's way closer to you. You're starting to see the badguys with guns now, there will only be more as time goes on. |
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Is this SHTF a temp thing or a permanent thing?
If it's a temp thing eventually Mr. Man will be along to ask questions and he'll be wanting answers. Anything you do had better be very kosher or very deeply buried. If the SHTF is permanent then things are different. I won't go looking for trouble but I sure would rather take trouble down before it gets too close to the homestead. |
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they might be 22lr clones in californistan I hear the IDF replaced those tacticool 10/22's with them.
Okay now I get the OP. If I was able to hold up in the house I would only fire when someone was trying to get in. But in a "mob" type attack I guess I would have to dump into the crowd to try and hold them off. The M1A would be fine. I doubt it would be a good idea to go "sniper" on the neighborhood though, b/c when the law comes back into order they are going to be looking for who the fuck was doing that. Your attackers decide to burn your house down with you in it. |
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Depends on what kind of S is hitting the F. In most cases, I'm going to recognize that I'm not rambo. I'm not looking for trouble. I have a family to protect. You and your family are STUCK where you are. You cannot get out by vehicle safely. all the freeways are bogged down with burned cars and such. YOU ARE STUCK. Rioting/looting/raping/murder is everywhere, and you can tell it's making it's way closer to you. You're starting to see the badguys with guns now, there will only be more as time goes on. Nothing changes. I'm still keeping my head down. I can't justify killing someone if they have done no harm to anyone. If I see them pulling people out of their homes/firing into homes/harming people, I will send a single warning shot into a skull with a .308. If this does not work, I will repeat as necessary. |
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they might be 22lr clones in californistan I hear the IDF replaced those tacticool 10/22's with them.
Okay now I get the OP. If I was able to hold up in the house I would only fire when someone was trying to get in. But in a "mob" type attack I guess I would have to dump into the crowd to try and hold them off. The M1A would be fine. I doubt it would be a good idea to go "sniper" on the neighborhood though, b/c when the law comes back into order they are going to be looking for who the fuck was doing that. Your attackers decide to burn your house down with you in it. yep. Start over on page one of the choose your own adventure. You're a dead bastard. Hopefully you died before you got to see your SO run out of the burning house and get raped and murdered 
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they might be 22lr clones in californistan I hear the IDF replaced those tacticool 10/22's with them.
Okay now I get the OP. If I was able to hold up in the house I would only fire when someone was trying to get in. But in a "mob" type attack I guess I would have to dump into the crowd to try and hold them off. The M1A would be fine. I doubt it would be a good idea to go "sniper" on the neighborhood though, b/c when the law comes back into order they are going to be looking for who the fuck was doing that. Your attackers decide to burn your house down with you in it. yep. Start over on page one of the choose your own adventure. You're a dead bastard. Hopefully you died before you got to see your SO run out of the burning house and get raped and murdered Having a retreat with a defensible perimeter (at least out of the range of Molotov cocktails for God's sake!) would be desirable (prerequisite in my book). 
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Too many variables to have any real answer. You could come up against a bunch of untrained punks with shiny stolen guns that can't fight for shit and than a couple of guys in flip-flops with shotguns and .357 wheelguns that end up being Navy Seals and fucking you all up. Do what you have to. Would you kill everything you came accross (that was armed and posed a threat) as you went, or take a more stealthy approach and only shoot if you had to? It's first and foremost a protection outlook for me, as, unless they were dead, I'd be protecting my family and neighborhood. I would be shooting who I had to according to need. If all that was gone and I was alone without anyone I cared for, than I wouldn't stay to populated area's at all. Than I'd still shoot who I had to, but that could mean taking what I needed as I go and who had what I needed. I can't truly say I'll go to the dark side I have though till it happens. There are just too many variables. I do know anyone trying to take what I or mine have will definitely find some death at my hands. |
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Where I live most neighborhoods are gated. Mine is a relatively small neighborhood. In the event of a complete collaspe that resembled Monrovia (this is obviously far fetched) I would be 'protecting my neighborhood' from anyone that looked like a looter.
There is a certain 'criminal element' where I live that is not to be toyed with lightly. Ever youtube "gansta's and thugs"? That is the element I'm talking about. If any of that came through the gate it would be headshots no questions asked. Again, in the event of a complete collapse that resembled Monrovia I'm sure my neighborhood would be manning the guard gate at the front of the neighborhood in armed teams. Fortunately there is NO other way in this neighborhood except for the front. |
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Too many variables to have any real answer. You could come up against a bunch of untrained punks with shiny stolen guns that can't fight for shit and than a couple of guys in flip-flops with shotguns and .357 wheelguns that end up being Navy Seals and fucking you all up. Do what you have to. Would you kill everything you came accross (that was armed and posed a threat) as you went, or take a more stealthy approach and only shoot if you had to? It's first and foremost a protection outlook for me, as, unless they were dead, I'd be protecting my family and neighborhood. I would be shooting who I had to according to need. If all that was gone and I was alone without anyone I cared for, than I wouldn't stay to populated area's at all. Than I'd still shoot who I had to, but that could mean taking what I needed as I go and who had what I needed. I can't truly say I'll go to the dark side I have though till it happens. There are just too many variables. I do know anyone trying to take what I or mine have will definitely find some death at my hands. interesting |
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Avoid, avoid, avoid. Since it's just me and my cousin that live in this apt, we'd probably just hunker down until ... whenever. I would only shoot if myself or an innocent was in clear and present danger.
Ideally I would pack it out down to my parents house. If the roads were out of commission, I would still be able to get through on backroads or dirt roads. More food, more water, more family members, tighter community, smaller metro, more firearms, better defensive position, better position to bug out with the I-15 and smaller highways that lead all across the state. |
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My home is not close to an urban center.
Meh- it's NY, I'm sure I'm better equipped than the average resident of this state.
My home is on high ground, with good view and good fields of fire. In a bugout, my secondary location is even higher, even more remote. Best to be well stocked so you don't have to go out at night. 
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The best way to survive a gunfight is to not get in one at all. Realistically, gangbangers are going to kill each other. They already do, but remove the restraints of "The Man", and they're really going to go at it. I would organize my own little gang of like minded people. When a victor is declared in the gangland wars, if needed, we fight the winners. In a SHTF scenario, everyday you and your family survive is a victory. With every new sunrise you can wake up knowing there are probably less scumbags than there were yesterday. There will also be less ammo to worry about. A lot of the gangbanger types I deal with only have one mag per gun and a lot of times we catch them with only 3-5 rounds in the mag. If you have even 100 rounds of ammo, you're better off than most criminals. Of course, the downside is that it only takes 1 bullet to kill you. As for your questions, the answer to most of them is "It depends..." I've seen first hand the shooting abililty of "gangbangers". If they maintain their current weapons trends (cheapo guns, modest supply of ammo, poor cleaning), skill level and tactics, and I've got my M1A or an AR, I'm pretty sure I can fight an indefinite supply of them past 50 yards. Realistically, the distance is probably less, but no sense risking catching the magic BB. When you run up to a car full of children at a funeral procession and only get one round off before the gun jams as we saw a month or so ago, you know you ought to spend less money on Obama t-shirts, and more money on cleaning kits, or get something better than a Hi-Point. You should NEVER underestimate your enemy, but one thing I've learned is that most criminals, plain and simple, are cowards. Take domestic violence suspects for instance. They beat their baby's mama's, but when the police show up, they take off running out the back. We had a car jacking where the victim, a deaf woman, was pistol whipped. When we catch up the guy, doesn't try to pistol whip us at all! In fact, he leaves the gun under the driver's seat, and tries to run. Gang bangers, for all their talk of "Death before dishonor" and the usual bravado, act tough because generally speaking, no one-not the law nor "citizens" are willing/able to put them in their place. When you walk in on a rape in progress and the rapist is on the wrong end of your partner's taser, I can say from firsthand experience, their demeanor changes. |
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id be moving as fast as i can to where i plan to go, avoid contact as much as i can. You can't. It's all over the news. Every road out of town is blocked by debris. Cars burning and such. The looters started there. Carjackings and such. People fled from their cars and ran off on foot. looters looted the cars the others left, and are working their way back to the city where plenty of it is already going on. You're stuck where you are. |
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id be moving as fast as i can to where i plan to go, avoid contact as much as i can. You can't. It's all over the news. Every road out of town is blocked by debris. Cars burning and such. The looters started there. Carjackings and such. People fled from their cars and ran off on foot. looters looted the cars the others left, and are working their way back to the city where plenty of it is already going on. You're stuck where you are. No, you are not stuck where you are!! 
I gots t3h 4x4 and a good knowledge of the Sunroc mining roads. So my vehicle would have to literally be boxed in by something that I cannot pull or push out of the way.
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It's every man for himself. Kill or be killed. Looters/killers/rapists everywhere. Complete breakdown of law and order. When this is the case, I do the same thing I always do at Wal-Mart...go to the jewelry counter to check out, because nobody else ever thinks of it.This man will rule the wasteland. |
| I live sorta in the country...every house has ~3-20 acres. First thing we do is cordon off about a section or two with road blocks and sentries. As someone approaches 'gate' they would stopped 100 yrds out ask to ID themselves and be fired upon if they continued. If on the approved entry list ( made before had with community meeting) they would be granted entry. If not they'd be asked to hit the road or else. This has already been discussed by myself and a retired Marshall down the road (both 'gun nuts' but Generals if SHTF) Course we'd need to get all our kids back home for mutual reliance (not really kids but young adults away in the cities/apartments etc ) |
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id be moving as fast as i can to where i plan to go, avoid contact as much as i can. You can't. It's all over the news. Every road out of town is blocked by debris. Cars burning and such. The looters started there. Carjackings and such. People fled from their cars and ran off on foot. looters looted the cars the others left, and are working their way back to the city where plenty of it is already going on. You're stuck where you are. where am i? did you place me somewhere im not normally? who said i was in a car? no. still moving to where im going. come with me if you want to live.
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id be moving as fast as i can to where i plan to go, avoid contact as much as i can. You can't. It's all over the news. Every road out of town is blocked by debris. Cars burning and such. The looters started there. Carjackings and such. People fled from their cars and ran off on foot. looters looted the cars the others left, and are working their way back to the city where plenty of it is already going on. You're stuck where you are. where am i? did you place me somewhere im not normally? who said i was in a car? no. still moving to where im going. come with me if you want to live. ok
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It's every man for himself. Kill or be killed. Looters/killers/rapists everywhere. Complete breakdown of law and order. When this is the case, I do the same thing I always do at Wal-Mart...go to the jewelry counter to check out, because nobody else ever thinks of it.This man will rule the wasteland. I'm hoping he drives a really kewl car cause you gotta have a really kewl car to own the wasteland. 
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Hole up and defend my surroundings. Predetermine what proximity to my stronghold will be tolerated and not tolerated. Make my presence known (as a deterrent) and my person invisible. If I must move then avoid contact with everyone. If contact is unavoidable then neutralize any challengers or threats.
If law and order has broken down completely then everyone instantly become a criminal, EVERYONE. |
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Quoted: Hole up and defend my surroundings. Predetermine what proximity to my stronghold will be tolerated and not tolerated. Make my presence known (as a deterrent) and my person invisible. If I must move then avoid contact with everyone. If contact is unavoidable then neutralize any challengers or threats. If law and order has broken down completely then everyone instantly become a criminal, EVERYONE. Sure but finding other like minded people as you and working together is better than working alone. |
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It's every man for himself. Kill or be killed. Looters/killers/rapists everywhere. Complete breakdown of law and order. When do you engage a target, and when do you let them pass, hoping your presence will go undetected? How many targets are too many for you to safely engage on your own? (these are targets that if you kill now, you won't have to worry about later. If you let them go, they may be in a more advantageous position later, making it much more dangerous for you.) What about if you have help? When do you fight, and when do you flee? Think of the scene in saving private Ryan where they encounter the machine gun nest, and think about it's modern day equivalent in a SHTF end of the world type of situation; only this time it's groups of gangbangers with AK47s) Get some! http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/rr273/afitlewis/ar15%20icons/lifejackets.jpg?t=1244517099 First off, if a group of men as small as the one in SPR tried to take on an MG42 nest like they did, I'm pretty sure they would have all been wiped out. Second, I'm pretty sure that going against even multiple assailants with (most likely semi) AKs is nothing like going up against a belt fed medium machine gun, especially one with as high a rate of fire as the MG42/MG3. Oh, and if law and order had totally broken down, I would shoot any motherfucker(s) who I felt was a threat until they were dead IF I felt I could kill them without being wounded/killed. |