Posted: 6/7/2009 7:54:46 AM EDT
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The other night I was sleeping in my office (not unusual for me) when I was awakened by several VERY LOUD bangs. Fearing the worst I strapped on my gun, grabbed a rifle and went downstairs to check things out. Everything seemed quiet and I couldn't find any evidence of what had happened. After a while, I went back upstairs and went back to sleep. A couple of days later my computer started acting rather weird. I started getting minor visual artifacts on the screen. Assuming that it might be a hard drive problem (I am a computer tech and have found that most hardware malfunctions are hard drive based) or possibly possibly a major unrecoverable software malfunction (XP 64bit rarely gets viruses) I backed up all of my current work onto my server. Then I restarted my computer. During the restart I noticed that the visual artifacts were even present in the bios! In fact, it had become far worse. The computer would not finish booting properly, and the bios looked like it was written in another language!  I went ahead and opened it up to check the hardware. It turned out to be the video card. Five of the electrolytic capacitors on the card had exploded and leaked all over the board. I guess I finally figured out what those loud noises were from the other night!Now I just need to wait until Monday morning to call the company and bitch and complain until they send me a new board! I hope it doesn't take too long to get straightened out as my laptops are nowhere near as satisfying to work with as my normal computer! I have bad eyes so the large high-res displays are key! MAX |
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Quoted: We replace those damn things all the time. Surprised it booted up. Most we get dont boot and it looks like a main board issue. I know, it is very strange that it still "kind of worked". I also generally work with laptops so when the video card goes... You DO have to replace the main board!  |
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Quoted: I had an 8600GT do that as well. They didnt blow, but did ooze all over the card. It was a BFG card. It was a swap out from another PC that I added an ATI card to, so no biggie. I dont know if I will ever go back to NVIDIA drivered cards. You're really looking at the wrong thing here. It's the capacitors that were the problem, and NOT the NVidia chipset. NVidia doesn't actually MAKE their own graphics cards. They make the chipset. Other companies use those chipsets and incorporate them into the cards that they make. The cards are manufactured in contract production facilities that use specified components, including capacitors, of course, that may come from any given vendor at any given time. The card builders are always shopping for good deals to contain costs and improve their profit margin. Everybody does this except in fairly rare instances where the customer specifies the specific types of components to be used, down to the brand and manufacturer's part number. There was a big problem with capacitors that were made by a major manufacturer which were made using an electrolyte formula that was stolen from a competitor. But the stolen formula was incomplete, lacking a stabilizer, and the caps made with the incomplete formula had short operating lifespans, would overheat, pressurize, and leak...or sometimes, explode. These caps went into EVERYTHING. And they were born to fail. You can find them on some NVidia boards. You can find them on some ATI boards. You can find them on PC motherboards. You can find them in TV sets, VCRs, stereos, camcorders, you name it. Since the company making the defective caps was a major supplier to the entire electronics industry, this "capacitor plague" was widespread and touched nearly every type of electronic product. Even today, some remaining stocks of the bad caps are still in use. It's absolutely pointless to blame NVidia when it's not their chipset that's to blame. Blame is to be pinned on the company that made the bad capacitors. And those can be found in most anything. Personally, I'll only buy NVidia powered video cards. ATI will never get another dime of my money. ATI is part of AMD, and I don't do AMD processors, either. AMD/ATI is probably going to go bye-bye before too terribly long anyway. And their technologies are not as well supported. Crossfire? What's that? The games I'm interested in support SLI but not many support Crossfire. I choose Intel/NVidia based computing solutions, never AMD/ATI. CJ |
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Quoted: I'm on a Mac. As am I! I am currently using my Macbook Pro to post this thread. I use Apple products all the time. I own both a Macbook Pro and a Mac Mini that I use as a web server. I also own five HP laptops, two servers that I built myself and of course my office computer that went down. Unfortunately none of my other computers have a PCI Express video card to spare so that I could bring my office computer back on line while I get this situation straightened out!  MAX
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Quoted: Quoted: I had an 8600GT do that as well. They didnt blow, but did ooze all over the card. It was a BFG card. It was a swap out from another PC that I added an ATI card to, so no biggie. I dont know if I will ever go back to NVIDIA drivered cards. You're really looking at the wrong thing here. It's the capacitors that were the problem, and NOT the NVidia chipset. NVidia doesn't actually MAKE their own graphics cards. They make the chipset. Other companies use those chipsets and incorporate them into the cards that they make. The cards are manufactured in contract production facilities that use specified components, including capacitors, of course, that may come from any given vendor at any given time. The card builders are always shopping for good deals to contain costs and improve their profit margin. Everybody does this except in fairly rare instances where the customer specifies the specific types of components to be used, down to the brand and manufacturer's part number. There was a big problem with capacitors that were made by a major manufacturer which were made using an electrolyte formula that was stolen from a competitor. But the stolen formula was incomplete, lacking a stabilizer, and the caps made with the incomplete formula had short operating lifespans, would overheat, pressurize, and leak...or sometimes, explode. These caps went into EVERYTHING. And they were born to fail. You can find them on some NVidia boards. You can find them on some ATI boards. You can find them on PC motherboards. You can find them in TV sets, VCRs, stereos, camcorders, you name it. Since the company making the defective caps was a major supplier to the entire electronics industry, this "capacitor plague" was widespread and touched nearly every type of electronic product. Even today, some remaining stocks of the bad caps are still in use. It's absolutely pointless to blame NVidia when it's not their chipset that's to blame. Blame is to be pinned on the company that made the bad capacitors. And those can be found in most anything. Personally, I'll only buy NVidia powered video cards. ATI will never get another dime of my money. ATI is part of AMD, and I don't do AMD processors, either. AMD/ATI is probably going to go bye-bye before too terribly long anyway. And their technologies are not as well supported. Crossfire? What's that? The games I'm interested in support SLI but not many support Crossfire. I choose Intel/NVidia based computing solutions, never AMD/ATI. CJ Very interesting story! I hadn't heard of that yet!  |
In a former life I did a lot of new production board testing. The backwards electrolytics would usually warn me they were going to blow by sizzling a little after power was first applied. POW! Embedded in the ceiling. I almost got shot in the face a few times. I wanted to make a revolver loaded with reverse polarity electrolytics and electrically fired - you know, a Cap Gun.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm on a Mac. As am I! I am currently using my Macbook Pro to post this thread. I use Apple products all the time. I own both a Macbook Pro and a Mac Mini that I use as a web server. I also own five HP laptops, two servers that I built myself and of course my office computer that went down. Unfortunately none of my other computers have a PCI Express video card to spare so that I could bring my office computer back on line while I get this situation straightened out! MAX As am I. 
Back to the bang, sounds as if one cap degrade then blew and there was a cascading effect down the circuit or possibly the cap was overloaded resulting in the same blowout effect. Several years ago, a major capacitor mfg put out a huge lot of defective caps that reeked havoc across the IT sector. All major computer mfg had motherboards failing, video cards shitting the bed, etc. |
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Quoted: In a former life I did a lot of new production board testing. The backwards electrolytics would usually warn me they were going to blow by sizzling a little after power was first applied. POW! Embedded in the ceiling. I almost got shot in the face a few times. I wanted to make a revolver loaded with reverse polarity electrolytics and electrically fired - you know, a Cap Gun. Gives new meaning to the gangster phrase "I'm gonna put a cap in your ass"!  |
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Quoted:
I'm on a Mac. Does not matter what brand you are using. Read up. www.badcaps.net http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague http://news.cnet.com/PCs-plagued-by-bad-capacitors/2100-1041_3-5942647.html Macs aren't immune. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-dgNQgcz2k http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gcEePzLYgk A lot of bad, that is, counterfeit capacitors hit the market some years back and were used in all sorts of computer gear. They dry out and blow up. |
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Quoted:[/span]
Several years ago, a major capacitor mfg put out a huge lot of defective caps that reeked havoc across the IT sector. All major computer mfg had motherboards failing, video cards shitting the bed, etc. No, a major capacitor manufactur's name was used on counterfeit capacitors. The real manufacturer did nothing wrong. The counterfeiter did. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:[/span]
Several years ago, a major capacitor mfg put out a huge lot of defective caps that reeked havoc across the IT sector. All major computer mfg had motherboards failing, video cards shitting the bed, etc. No, a major capacitor manufactur's name was used on counterfeit capacitors. The real manufacturer did nothing wrong. The counterfeiter did. Thanks for correcting me, it has been a while, it wreaked havoc were I work on PC's and Servers that were bought during that time frame. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted:[/span] No, a major capacitor manufactur's name was used on counterfeit capacitors. The real manufacturer did nothing wrong. The counterfeiter did.Several years ago, a major capacitor mfg put out a huge lot of defective caps that reeked havoc across the IT sector. All major computer mfg had motherboards failing, video cards shitting the bed, etc. Thanks for correcting me, it has been a while, it wreaked havoc were I work on PC's and Servers that were bought during that time frame. I have also replaced (or fixed) a lot of hardware that was manufactured during that time period. Most of it was due to bad capacitors. However, I had never before heard of this explanation. I suppose that I just didn't question it before. I just saw a bad capacitor and fixed / replaced the hardware without really taking the time to think of the reason WHY it had failed. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm on a Mac. Does not matter what brand you are using. Read up. www.badcaps.net http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague http://news.cnet.com/PCs-plagued-by-bad-capacitors/2100-1041_3-5942647.html Macs aren't immune. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-dgNQgcz2k http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gcEePzLYgk A lot of bad, that is, counterfeit capacitors hit the market some years back and were used in all sorts of computer gear. They dry out and blow up. Bad caps have always been a problem. |
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The story goes that the formula for the electrolyte was stolen from the manufacturer by some employees who quit and formed their own company. They actually counterfeited several names, not just the former employer's.
But they missed something... the additional stuff added to the electrolyte that keeps it from drying out. After a few years the caps dry out. Then they are no longer the original value. Funnies start happening, freezes, restarts, other quirks. It gets worse and worse. Then caps start leaking, the acidic electrolyte corroding surrounding components. Or worse, they actually explode, anything from a mild "pop" to sounding like a .22LR going off, spraying bits of aluminum foil and electrolyte all over the insides of the computer. Try cleaning that crap out. And this affected nearly everyone... HP, Gateway, Dell, all of the manufacturers, big and small. Makers of motherboards, video cards, power supplies, other components. Wouldn't you love to know one of those caps is in a heart monitor while you are hospitalized? Perhaps during reentry of the Space Shuttle the computer shuts down. What if you are in a "fly-by-wire" computer controlled passenger aircraft out over the ocean and the computer goes to crap? And bad caps are not the end of the story... there are bad transistors. You can look that up. Fake OnSemi devices. A power transistor that should easily handle 15 amps fails at 2 amps. Fake tubes. They are all over ebay... Chinese tubes, a little thinner on a rag wiping off the original markings. Stamp on 6L6GT, and print your own RCA or Sylvania boxes, and sell on ebay as NOS. Then the guy wonders why his guitar amp sounds like crap. It goes on and on. Heck, there were even fake Bell helicopter parts floating around. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I had an 8600GT do that as well. They didnt blow, but did ooze all over the card. It was a BFG card. It was a swap out from another PC that I added an ATI card to, so no biggie. I dont know if I will ever go back to NVIDIA drivered cards. You're really looking at the wrong thing here. It's the capacitors that were the problem, and NOT the NVidia chipset. NVidia doesn't actually MAKE their own graphics cards. They make the chipset. Other companies use those chipsets and incorporate them into the cards that they make. The cards are manufactured in contract production facilities that use specified components, including capacitors, of course, that may come from any given vendor at any given time. The card builders are always shopping for good deals to contain costs and improve their profit margin. Everybody does this except in fairly rare instances where the customer specifies the specific types of components to be used, down to the brand and manufacturer's part number. There was a big problem with capacitors that were made by a major manufacturer which were made using an electrolyte formula that was stolen from a competitor. But the stolen formula was incomplete, lacking a stabilizer, and the caps made with the incomplete formula had short operating lifespans, would overheat, pressurize, and leak...or sometimes, explode. These caps went into EVERYTHING. And they were born to fail. You can find them on some NVidia boards. You can find them on some ATI boards. You can find them on PC motherboards. You can find them in TV sets, VCRs, stereos, camcorders, you name it. Since the company making the defective caps was a major supplier to the entire electronics industry, this "capacitor plague" was widespread and touched nearly every type of electronic product. Even today, some remaining stocks of the bad caps are still in use. It's absolutely pointless to blame NVidia when it's not their chipset that's to blame. Blame is to be pinned on the company that made the bad capacitors. And those can be found in most anything. Personally, I'll only buy NVidia powered video cards. ATI will never get another dime of my money. ATI is part of AMD, and I don't do AMD processors, either. AMD/ATI is probably going to go bye-bye before too terribly long anyway. And their technologies are not as well supported. Crossfire? What's that? The games I'm interested in support SLI but not many support Crossfire. I choose Intel/NVidia based computing solutions, never AMD/ATI. CJ You better hope that doesn't happen. Intel processors and Nvidia video cards would get a lot more expensive pretty quick. Also the drive to innovate, to be the current holder of the next great thing in graphics or processing wouldn't be as strong and it will take longer for new tech to hit the market. The last thing anyone in the computer business (or any market segment for that matter) should want is to have sole sources for components. Jer |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I had an 8600GT do that as well. They didnt blow, but did ooze all over the card. It was a BFG card. It was a swap out from another PC that I added an ATI card to, so no biggie. I dont know if I will ever go back to NVIDIA drivered cards. You're really looking at the wrong thing here. It's the capacitors that were the problem, and NOT the NVidia chipset. NVidia doesn't actually MAKE their own graphics cards. They make the chipset. Other companies use those chipsets and incorporate them into the cards that they make. The cards are manufactured in contract production facilities that use specified components, including capacitors, of course, that may come from any given vendor at any given time. The card builders are always shopping for good deals to contain costs and improve their profit margin. Everybody does this except in fairly rare instances where the customer specifies the specific types of components to be used, down to the brand and manufacturer's part number. There was a big problem with capacitors that were made by a major manufacturer which were made using an electrolyte formula that was stolen from a competitor. But the stolen formula was incomplete, lacking a stabilizer, and the caps made with the incomplete formula had short operating lifespans, would overheat, pressurize, and leak...or sometimes, explode. These caps went into EVERYTHING. And they were born to fail. You can find them on some NVidia boards. You can find them on some ATI boards. You can find them on PC motherboards. You can find them in TV sets, VCRs, stereos, camcorders, you name it. Since the company making the defective caps was a major supplier to the entire electronics industry, this "capacitor plague" was widespread and touched nearly every type of electronic product. Even today, some remaining stocks of the bad caps are still in use. It's absolutely pointless to blame NVidia when it's not their chipset that's to blame. Blame is to be pinned on the company that made the bad capacitors. And those can be found in most anything. Personally, I'll only buy NVidia powered video cards. ATI will never get another dime of my money. ATI is part of AMD, and I don't do AMD processors, either. AMD/ATI is probably going to go bye-bye before too terribly long anyway. And their technologies are not as well supported. Crossfire? What's that? The games I'm interested in support SLI but not many support Crossfire. I choose Intel/NVidia based computing solutions, never AMD/ATI. CJ You better hope that doesn't happen. Intel processors and Nvidia video cards would get a lot more expensive pretty quick. Also the drive to innovate, to be the current holder of the next great thing in graphics or processing wouldn't be as strong and it will take longer for new tech to hit the market. The last thing anyone in the computer business (or any market segment for that matter) should want is to have sole sources for components. Jer Imagine how crappy operating systems wold be if there was no competitor for Microsoft... Oh, wait a second, you don't need to imagine... VISTA!  |
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There are a ton of counterfeit electronics components coming out of China. Passives are some of the most easily counterfeited parts. It's hard for manufacturers to keep those Chicom parts for getting into there manufacturing process.
I am sure that XFX would like to know what happened and will send you a new video card. I don't think they will replace your mother board. You can try cleaning your mother board. Pull out the MB and clean it off with ever clear and q-tips. Let it air dry for a couple of days and then try the MB again. Just use the q tips and ever clear to get the electrolyte off. Good luck. I work at a big scientific user facility that uses high end PC's for data accquisition and control. We run PNY video cards and Tyan or Asus mother boards. We have never had an electrolytic cap fail on the machines, FWIW. |
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Quoted:
There was a big problem with capacitors that were made by a major manufacturer which were made using an electrolyte formula that was stolen from a competitor. But the stolen formula was incomplete, lacking a stabilizer, and the caps made with the incomplete formula had short operating lifespans, would overheat, pressurize, and leak...or sometimes, explode. These caps went into EVERYTHING. And they were born to fail. That was true for some runs a long time ago... nearly ten years? The truth of the matter is far less insidious. Switching power supplies are very hard on capacitors, good capacitors are expensive, and manufacturers cut corners and use caps that just aren't up to the task. I've had people bring stuff to me with blown up caps where the caps could NOT have been rated for even half of the ripple current they were subjected to. Take a look at a switching power supply made to be used long-term, then look at one from a computer (whether it's in the PSU, or one of the point of load converters used on the video card or motherboard). The differences are immediately apparent. Some motherboards are coming around, using OsCons both on input and output - and sometimes, even in adequate quantities - but you don't get that on cheap boards. It's not a chemical failure, it's not industrial espionage... it's just them cutting corners. The three to five years that they take off of the lifespan saves them a dollar (maybe TWO!) per board. Quoted:
I am sure that XFX would like to know what happened. I highly doubt it. They're one of the low-cost manufacturers, and they knew what they were doing when they cut corners. They're not strangers to this, they made the calculations as to how low they could shave their costs before it started eating into profits in returns. Now, if it's under warranty, they may replace it - but other than that, they could not care less that the guy's card blew up. |
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Quoted: If your saying Vista is crap, why is it? I've been using it for a year now and its 100x better then XP. Im even using 64bit and havent had one problem. I run XP 64bit. It works very well, is fast and minimalistic. I prefer my OS not to be using half of my system resources just to maintain its own existence. The effects in VISTA that use all of those system resources are unnecessary. VISTA has no added functionality over XP, it just takes more computer to run. IMHO, that is NOT an improvement! |
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Quoted:
You do realize it uses as much memory as possible to speed it up, then when other programs need memoery it releases it.
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If your saying Vista is crap, why is it? I've been using it for a year now and its 100x better then XP. Im even using 64bit and havent had one problem. I run XP 64bit. It works very well, is fast and minimalistic. I prefer my OS not to be using half of my system resources just to maintain its own existence. The effects in VISTA that use all of those system resources are unnecessary. VISTA has no added functionality over XP, it just takes more computer to run. IMHO, that is NOT an improvement! |
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Quoted: Quoted: You do realize it uses as much memory as possible to speed it up, then when other programs need memoery it releases it.Quoted: If your saying Vista is crap, why is it? I've been using it for a year now and its 100x better then XP. Im even using 64bit and havent had one problem. I run XP 64bit. It works very well, is fast and minimalistic. I prefer my OS not to be using half of my system resources just to maintain its own existence. The effects in VISTA that use all of those system resources are unnecessary. VISTA has no added functionality over XP, it just takes more computer to run. IMHO, that is NOT an improvement! I have used it, and I do have it installed on one of my machines right now for "diagnostic purposes". I remain unimpressed. |
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Quoted:
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If your saying Vista is crap, why is it? I've been using it for a year now and its 100x better then XP. Im even using 64bit and havent had one problem. I run XP 64bit. It works very well, is fast and minimalistic. I prefer my OS not to be using half of my system resources just to maintain its own existence. The effects in VISTA that use all of those system resources are unnecessary. VISTA has no added functionality over XP, it just takes more computer to run. IMHO, that is NOT an improvement! No added functionality? You mean like an improved firewall, improved memory management, volume shadow copying, vastly improved memory prefetching, protected mode in Internet Explorer, a lot of security fixes, Bitlocker drive encryption (and those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head)?. If you don't like Vista, you don't like Vista, but to say it offers no added functionality over XP is false. |
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Quoted: Quoted: No added functionality? You mean like an improved firewall, improved memory management, volume shadow copying, vastly improved memory prefetching, protected mode in Internet Explorer, a lot of security fixes, Bitlocker drive encryption (and those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head)?. If you don't like Vista, you don't like Vista, but to say it offers no added functionality over XP is false.Quoted: If your saying Vista is crap, why is it? I've been using it for a year now and its 100x better then XP. Im even using 64bit and havent had one problem. I run XP 64bit. It works very well, is fast and minimalistic. I prefer my OS not to be using half of my system resources just to maintain its own existence. The effects in VISTA that use all of those system resources are unnecessary. VISTA has no added functionality over XP, it just takes more computer to run. IMHO, that is NOT an improvement! OK, I guess "no added functionality" was the incorrect phrase. I just mean that it is NOT AT ALL like the difference between 98SE and XP was. What functionality that was added seems more to me like the difference between XP and Service Pack 2. Maybe in a couple more years when computers become fast enough that there are is no performance loss by running VISTA and they have fixed all of its remaining bugs it will be time to upgrade. For now, I'm sticking with my XP 64bit! MAX
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Quoted: Quoted: I'm on a Mac. Does not matter what brand you are using. Read up. www.badcaps.net http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague http://news.cnet.com/PCs-plagued-by-bad-capacitors/2100-1041_3-5942647.html Macs aren't immune. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-dgNQgcz2k http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gcEePzLYgk A lot of bad, that is, counterfeit capacitors hit the market some years back and were used in all sorts of computer gear. They dry out and blow up.  I think they've got some bad caps in their server...  |
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What brand/model XFX 8600GT Like most manufacturers, they only offer a one year warranty on graphics cards. 8600GTs came out quite a while ago, so you may be out of luck. However, if you bought it in the last year, register at their support page (just Google "xfx support") and submit a support ticket. You will have to pay shipping to return the bad card, but you can't buy a new 8600GT card for $8. I just did their return process with an XFX 9800 GTX card I bought late last summer, which had a power management problem. They replaced it with a slightly better model, a 9800 GTX+. My defective card arrived at their place last Friday, and my replacement card was shipped the following Monday. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What brand/model XFX 8600GT Like most manufacturers, they only offer a one year warranty on graphics cards. 8600GTs came out quite a while ago, so you may be out of luck. However, if you bought it in the last year, register at their support page (just Google "xfx support") and submit a support ticket. You will have to pay shipping to return the bad card, but you can't buy a new 8600GT card for $8. I just did their return process with an XFX 9800 GTX card I bought late last summer, which had a power management problem. They replaced it with a slightly better model, a 9800 GTX+. My defective card arrived at their place last Friday, and my replacement card was shipped the following Monday. I think that it might be over a year old. They should still replace it as their product basically self-destructed! If they don't take it back I'm going to make it damn clear why I will not by replacing it with another XFX product!
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What brand/model XFX 8600GT Like most manufacturers, they only offer a one year warranty on graphics cards. 8600GTs came out quite a while ago, so you may be out of luck. However, if you bought it in the last year, register at their support page (just Google "xfx support") and submit a support ticket. You will have to pay shipping to return the bad card, but you can't buy a new 8600GT card for $8. I just did their return process with an XFX 9800 GTX card I bought late last summer, which had a power management problem. They replaced it with a slightly better model, a 9800 GTX+. My defective card arrived at their place last Friday, and my replacement card was shipped the following Monday. I haven't bought an XFX card in the past 6-8 months, but all of those I have purchased have a lifetime warranty. |