This whole issue is pointless.  I bought my Harley 10 years ago because I wanted it.  I didn't, and still don't, care what other people think about it.  I don't try to be a 'bad-ass' or anything.  Yes, I wear a leather jacket on cold days (non-Harley), leather gloves, and boots.  The gloves are HD because they were a gift from my wife.  The boots are HD because they look better than than most others and didn't cost any more than the others.  I like my Harley as much as the day I bought it (and can still sell it for more than what I paid).  Yes, the dealers can be pricks.  Yes, they sell all the little trinkets.  But if someone is willing to buy the stuff, let them.  When I'm ready for a new bike, it'll be another Harley.  The Japanese cruisers are great machines:  reliable, good-looking, and cheaper.  But they [b]still look like Harleys![/b]  If I wanted a sportbike, I would buy a Japanese one.  But I want a cruiser.  And I think the Harleys look better.  Also, with so many Jap bikes being produced, there are so many that look alike.  Almost every Harley out there has been customized one way or another.  Each is unique, and that is one of the most important aspect of motorcycle ownership.  One last thing, I ride mine to work, on the weekend, whenever I get the chance.  I also own a Ford F150, but that's to carry me, my family, and other stuff around.  When one of my other vehicles is out of commission, they drive the truck; I drive the Harley.
If you want one... buy it.  If not, then just leave the others alone who do.

There that was much better. I knew you had it in you. But I'm sorry I forgot to mention my Miata. That is the best "bang for your buck" foriegn sports car out there. Sure there are faster ones and more expensive ones but that baby is a blast. And one of the MOST reliable cars on the road. It was a good point you made though. Sorry I had forgotten to mention it earlier.

You see, that's the point, I can afford to buy just about anything that I want bad enough. It just pisses me off that Harley Davidson chooses to dick around this way. I'm not pissed off cause they are commies or they and socialists, that's just me venting to some level. What I'm mostly pissed off about is just how screwed up the whole mess is and to have them, for the most part, representing the American Motorcycle industry. It's just embarrasing.

I guess who is really to blame is the Harley riders. Harley has attempted several times to embrace new technology but the customers for the most part didn't want it. They think that a Harley should be loud and rough and hurt when you have to ride it more than 20 miles.

What I really want is an American motorcycle company who makes a good product and sells it without all the BS. Then I'll buy one and be proud of it. The way it is right now, I'd just be embarrased. Douchedog, hey, that's pretty good, you're still unarmed I take it. [:D]

Is all of this anti-Harley sentiment from people who can't afford a Harley and are just jealous of those who can?

Retrodog:

I'll pass your embarrassment and concerns to the management at the Motor Company. I'm sure that they will be deeply distressed to hear of your dissatisfaction with their product and marketing. Better yet, take your incredible wealth and open another American made motorcycle company to compete with them. Try to put them out of business with your superior product. You won't be the first to try.

200,000 people per year buy their products and as you can see from the posts here re sales, numbers, and resale value, the riders are generally satisfied. I'll pass your disappointment on to them as well. Surely, this wil be cause of much sorrow among Harley riders nationwide.

I have 35,000 miles on my last three Harleys, and have been stranded twice, when I failed to replace batteries as they were dying. Required repairs, outside of routine service, can be counted on one hand, and all minor. My Road King is loud, cause I made it that way with a Thunderheader. My choice. Rough and uncomfortable? What have you been riding? A 1923 model, or are you just going with "what a friend of a buddy told you about Harleys"? Took mine on a 1500 mile trip this summer. Rode like a dream, twelve hours a day.

I have to wonder again at the reason for your post on AR15.com. There are several motorcycle forums where you can obtain either affirmation or attacks, depending on your intent.

Since this is America, no one is forcing you to buy a Harley. Buy a clone, or a Japanese, German, or Italian bike (see real maintenance and marketing issues). Want a '94 Yamaha/'86 BMW/'01 Ducati/'00 Polaris? Buy one and see if it is the motorcycle of your dreams. Or buy a Harley after you ride the competition for a while and decide on the basis of some personal experience, rather than rumor and innuendo. Keep it stock for reliability and keep the factory exhaust for the lack of noise, if it concerns you. Sell it if you don't like it, and get your money back. Is someone holding you hostage so that you are unable to do that?

When your comments concern bikes you have owned, or even ridden for a while (you can ride, can't you?), you can be an informed rider with some credibility. Till then, your comments carry about as much credence as Sarah Brady's opinion of a Colt AR-15.

Trickshot, what do you know about the AMF years??
Let's see.. AMF bought HD because HD was suffering from a myraid of probs.. image (Hell's Angles and the like), the starting boom of the rice burners, a lackluster design dept and other problems.
Now, they lost a lot of buyers during the AMF/Voit years, because AMF HAD to put their logo on the tanks. Would you want to ride a bike from a dealership with a sporting goods lable on it??
But what happened?? People got intrested in them after AMF ran them into the ground, then Mr. Davison bought the Co. back. And turned it into one of the most profitable Co's in the US.
Enough for you?? (and I don't even OWN a Harley yet!!) And I'm not trying to flame you.

[smoke]

Don't buy a new Harley.  I have had 2 oldies and they were great fun.

So, let me get this straight.... The company listens to their core customers and produces what they want...... Fucking idiots. [:(!] When will they learn to just produce what the heck the and potential customers want. [;)]

As to your other point, You can have what you want on the cheap if you buy a rolling frame from one of the aftermarket people and stick an EVO or S&S engine & tranny in it. An american bike without all the BS. The only problem with tha is you would have to be able to assemble it yourself or take it to an independent bike shop / mechanic. But then he might have some accessories that he is trying to sell to advance his profit margin & that will piss you off too. [BD] As an aside, who would want anything with Honda or Kawi etc on it?

Nope, but I do occasionally blast in when cruising in my Dodge Ram 4x4.

There are two types of guys,
1. Those who have never driven a Miata.
2. Those who think they are a blast.

Oh, I forgot the third, those with such a tiny pecker that they have to drive a V-8 all the time. That's okay though cause my other three vehicles are V-8s.





Well I posted this on the general forum of the place where I hang out at. That seemed appropriate to me. Do you get on the threads about dating, porn stars, trucks, etc. etc. to make statements like this??? Probably not. Do you really know anything about my riding experience??? Nope, not really a thing. Are you talking out the side of your ass??? Absolutely.

I'm sorry that I tweeked your nerve but maybe you're just a little too in touch with your feminine side. Better get that in check before you get called a "pussy" by AR-nut like I did. I've been around Harleys for many years. I've ridden different ones since 71. I've never said that they were crap, or at least I didn't mean to. I am just irritated at how screwed up the industry had to get to make a slightly inferior product into a success. I just wish they could be a little better and trying to buy one would be a lot less BS.

And don't start comparing me to Sarah Brady. That's just hitting below the belt. I might have to tell everyone about what your mother did for a living and how my dad met here over in Korea, with the rest of the division. [:D]






Well gees, you really got me with that original one. Did you make that one up yourself or did you hire a political satirist to do it for you? Come on, you must have.

The one thing that I have noticed on this forum is that the only people that are bitching about the price are the ones that don't have a Harley.

Harley has been in business since 1903 and is going to continue to stay in business because so many people love them. Can so many people be wrong?

I could have went out and spent less money on AK-47s But I got AR's No different that owning a Harley over a jap bike.

Its an American thing and if we gota explain it you live in the wrong place.

1)I own one. Handle FLTRI98 98 Fuel Injected Road Glide. I'm 59, it suits my lard ass.

2) Th shortage seems to be over. Dealer has 2002 bikes on the floor.

3) I don't care what you own, so why do you can what I have?

I never did buy the H-D "bad boy biker" hype as I live in Reno the last Street Vibrations event was a sorry collection of old geezers an young ego trippers....what a bunch of sorry asses!.
In the fleet I work in it seems Hardleys come in w/ more problems then the Kawazukis 3to1 at 10 to 1 the parts cost....tax money well spent I'd say!!

PROS and CONS of Harley Davidson;

Pros: They keep they're resale value more than Japanese makes. HD is an American company and the bikes are made here in the good ol' USA (though, I wouldn't doubt that HD today uses many Jap or Canadian parts on their bikes)

Cons: Way overpriced. Loud(unless you like it like that) Limited styles; unlike Japanese makes which give you anything from retro cruisers to crotch-rocket street bikes, Harley offers only one style "chrome and leather" cruisers.

I never owned a bike, but if I did buy one, I would personally enjoy the street racer bikes more than the cruisers. Harley Davidson doesn't offer this style of bikes, so off to the Japanese or European market I go.


[b]ArmaLiter[/b]

I have to put in my two cents :-)!

I think Harleys are cool. Would love to have one but guess what, too expensive. Whether they are 15 grand or 100 grand, doesn't matter. I can't afford one. I don't begrudge those that can and do own one though. I ride a older Honda, but there "is" something to be said about an American "Icon", no matter whether you agree with their corporate tactics.

As to comparing to AR15 rifles of any quality, I don't think that really is an apples to apples argument. Other than Canada, who else but the US actually makes AR's anyway. If you say any of the AR's are crap, you are pretty much saying US made is crap [:)].

I think it's very humerous to see the "RUB's" (Rich Urban Bikers) in their Harley leather getups and fat bellies on nice Saturdays, but that doesn't mean I don't want one. (Although I would look much better on one) [:)].

I don't think anyone actually believes that Japanese branded cars or motorcycles are crap. True, you get what you pay for. You are paying for an honest, decent, affordable vehicle. It might not be American-made, but it's not crap. There are always exorbant entry fees into the world of having a cultural "Icon" like Harley. Too bad "I" have to settle for practical.

As to "American made" status I would like to see where they "actually" get most of the parts. I highly doubt that that majority of the small parts are actually made in America. If every single part were actually made in America, I bet the actual price would be twice what they are. Unfortunately, whether the good ol' USA makes good or bad, it ain't cheap!(I like to blame unions as they are easy pick'ens [:)].

I think Harley might be headed for some rough waters within the next 10-15 years. The average age of a Harley purchaser is now around 45-55+ making over 60K a year and they are NOT attracting the younger market. You can only be cool on your Harley and leathers for so long, and then you become an old joke.

Since even the used price of Harley is so high, that further keeps them from gaining any younger market share, because they can't afford to buy in, and what they don't know about young, they don't carry to their age when they can afford to. Basically Harley seems to be getting a larger and larger share of a shrinking market CAUSE WE"RE GETTING OLD! [:(] That's one of the reasons they are trying to sell so much name-branded crap.

They also have Buel (sp?) to try and entice more of the younger market, but that's pretty much crap. Why would I buy a cheap Jap rocket look-alike when I could just buy a good "real" Jap rocket for the same price. This is the turnabout that I believe will really hurt Harley in the long run.

I liked Harley's until they started selling them to squares. They are a good reason to ware trick-or-treater outfits year round.
Small dick, fat chick.
bs,
XR750's are the only Harley's.

hold on here, this is simple, they get all that money for the harleys because they can, it's that simple, they can manufacture more than tney do, but they won;t because if they ever meet the demand, they won't be worth as much, it sounds to me like you have never owned a harley, i own 1 andhave owned many diff bikes, and i love it, they csn mske those jap bike look as much liek the harleys as they want, but it's still not the same thing to ride, big diference, and you go buy your yamaka or kawi for 12 k instead of 19 but in 5 years you;ll sekk it f0r 4 grand, and i just sold my 9 year old harley with 40k on it, for 15g's

Oh, why don't y'all just step up to the plate and by a West Coast Chopper.  Around $60k?  

Now that is a bike!

[url]www.westcoastchoppers.com[/url]

Retrodog:
No, I generally reserve my posts here to firearms related questions, unless I see a really lame post. I also avoid posting about topics I lack the experience to comment on accurately. You ask an inflammatory motorcycle question on a firearms board? Where do you go to get your AR15 feedback, www.ricerocket.com? You haven't posted anything that I can find about your personal riding and ownership experience, just innuendo and rhetoric. Care to share your tremendous experience as a Harley owner now, or would you just make something up to pump up your obviously large opinion of yourself?

"Talking out of my ass"? Oooh, the shame! I have based all of my comments on my personal  riding/ownership experience and knowledge of the company and product. Where are your facts? Not to mention your vast experience. Seen a lot of horn blowing from you about everything BUT owning a Harley. Lots of noise about your money, vehicles, etc. You made a statement about your dissatisfaction with Harley, and several people who own them tried to give you their opinion. When confronted by facts, you were quick to resort to name calling and profanity. Here's to a noble battle of wits, eh?



Tweaked my nerve? No more than any other individual spouting rhetoric without facts to back it up. "Feminine side"? "Pussy"? Is that the best you can do? Did you post the "Why Buy a Harley, The Company Sucks!!!" topic to name call, or discuss facts?

"Been around Harleys for many years?" What, you walk through a dealership and kick the tires? Asked riders if you could pose on theirs for a photo? Communicated with the company about your dissatisfaction with a dealer/product?
"Ridden different ones since 71"? What, a mini-bike, a bicycle with H-D painted on it, what? What specific problems have you had, personally, with a H-D motorcycle from the past 31 years?
 


I was comparing one individual who gets her "facts" and "experience" of firearms from others without any ownership experience with another person who appears to be posting an opinion about a product he doesn't actually own.

If you think posting about my mother makes you a well reasoned intellectual, or your rhetoric more effective think again. Personally what your Dad did for a living doesn't impress me. Namecalling is not making your case. You still have not answered my questions from my previous post.
(Continued)

(Continuation)

1) What is your specific complaint with H-D?

2) What part of the marketing practices of a company which has demand exceeding supply despite manufacturing capacity increases and no real competition 99 years after opening seems stupid to you?

3) Few, if any of the current owners posting responses here seem unhappy with their choices. Yet you, a non-owner attack them. Why does their satisfaction with owning a Harley annoy you?

4) Which model Harley have you ridden lately that is rough and uncomfortable, or loud from the factory?

5) "Harley has attempted several times to embrace new technology but the customers for the most part didn't want it."  Let's see, the knucklehead, panhead, shovelhead, Evo and TC. Eric Buell selling sportbike H-Ds. Real buyer rejection of the new VRSC, eh? Try to buy one. It seems that positive changes are always welcomed by H-D owners. You are "retro"dog, aren't you?

6) What is keeping you from buying what you want, and riding it? Then you could knowledgably tell us why it "sucked" or not.

I have ridden Harleys since 1969, as well as Yamahas, Hondas, and Suzukis. I have owned four Harleys, starting in 1986 (a shovel, an Evo, and two TCs) and ridden dozens of others. I have put almost 50,000 miles on my Harleys. I have friends who are H-D dealers, and at the Motor Company. I currently own and ride a '93 FLSTF and a '01 FLHR, by my free choice from "an American motorcycle company who makes a good product and sells it without all the BS." I enjoy it, and don't condemn anyone else's choice in bikes. You pay the man for the scoot of your choice, and ride just what you want to. Till then, you are just making noise, and not putting any steel on the target. Just another individual with an uninformed opinion.

Look like our rides from around 1973.  All they need is a Savior frame, 23" over Denver girder, a righteous pan, jockey shift and suicide clutch.

Go find a Street Chopper rag from then and you'll see those motors the way we built 'em the first time.  I remember I had $250 tied up in my first chop.

Who said fast motors were supposed to be easy to ride?

Gross Vehicle Weight. GVW = FatBob + public eyesore number One, (ol' Lady), x I will fuck you if you buy me a Harley and a weekend bad boy costume.
p.s. every see anyone with Harley tattooed on their ass that was not on meth?
Thats gross.
bs,

SF,

There's no use arguing with these dumba$$es.

They are a bunch of cagers whose only experience with a Harley or anyone that has one is their weekend trips down to the dealership to look and wish.

That's were they meet the chrome polishers, because that's were you find them,  At the dealership on a nice day.  Here's a hint, Real riders are out on the road on a nice day!  If you want to meet some, get on your bike and go somewhere -- unless you don't have a bike.

These guys don't ride anything but the bus.

BTW retrodog Harley doesn't "represent" the American Motorcycle industy Harley IS the American motorcycle industry.  The rest are just clones.

Screw the Harleys.  Good bikes but like the originator said, too much BS involved in tyrying to buy one the way you want it.  My poison are BMWs.  I've got an 88 R100RT and have my eyes on one of the new R1200C cruisers.

Hipower:

 Personally, I don't care what they ride. Most of my riding friends are on H-Ds, but some ride Italian bikes and some ride Japanese bikes. My brother owns both. Some of the finest friends I have outside the military I met while riding my scoot.

 Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I just wish they would stick to knowledgable, well-informed opinions. Name callers should seek one another out and do it in person.

 The Motor Company is evolving. Of 640 dealers in the US, 100 of them changed hands last year, the majority because the business refused to adapt and H-D forced it. I always liked the family dealerships with the old guys that knew more (and had done more) than I could believe. But they have to evolve, or Harley will cut their allocation and open a new dealership with a bigger allocation next door. The dealer locally just moved into a new building with a $40,000 per month mortgage. He will not make enough markup on his entire year's allocation of bikes to pay two months of mortgage, not even counting the rest of the overhead. He HAS to sell t-shirts, and chrome, and service, with a smile.

H-D will make all of the bikes they can and try to increase production without compromising quality. I believe that they will eventually reach market saturation here in the US (but not before the 100th Anniversary next year!). After that, there is the overseas market, which they have not even begun to satisfy.

Heck, even I had to evolve. My first bike was a Sporty, then I went to a Softtail, then another Softtail, and now that I am older and busted up, I enjoy riding the Bagger best.

The bikes have gotten better every year with more features, and a bigger bottom line. On the other hand, in 1967, when my Dad bought his FLH, it cost just over $3,000. You could buy a pretty decent car for that back then.  Now an FLHT will run you about $18,000, again about the price of a car.

There are several places near here where the dealers sell at MSRP. As one explained it to me, with the street price of the bikes exceeding MSRP and demand outstripping supply, just what would you, as a dealer, discount off the price of a bike so that someone could list it in the paper next week and pocket the difference? Look at the H-Ds in the papers each weekend. How many have less than 1,000 miles? Almost all of them are someone trying to get a bike from the dealer at MSRP and make a quick couple of thou on it. Many of them will make it, too.  

Let's say we have a limited supply of a commodity in demand. Like a case of new 30 rd. preban mags we find in the back of a surplus store. The old label is marked at $6.95 each. Would you buy them for that? I would. Would I sell them for that? I don't think so. Do I have to be a good marketer to sell them and make a profit? No. Can I sell them to whoever I want and at whatever price the market will bear? Absolutely! SUPPLY and DEMAND.

I'd rather push a oil leaking Harley past the JapBikeShop than send a copper penny overseas....>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Can you say brain washed sheep.

If you took all the Jap and Tiawan shit off of a Harley you couldn't push it out of your garage much less ride it. It's more like assembled in American, haven't you every hear of the New World Order and that includes lots of Jap parts on Harleys. A Harley is almost as American as my Honda American Classic Edition Shaddow which was built in Marysville Ohio. I did the Harley thing backin the 60s and I got tired of shit falling off of my bike and the thing breaking down and making me walk. My ACE has never made me walk and that's good, I can't say that about my last Harley.

Those rabid newbie wannabe bikers, who have bought into the Harley myth are just suckers and wouldn't make a pimple on a real bikers ass. They never fail to amuse the shit out of us that have been riding since the 60s as they strut around in their new squeaky black leather chaps with their shit kicking biker boots, that they drage half way across an intersection when they start off from a red light. When you ask them who Cal Rayborn, Jay Springsteen or Bart Markel is, they just give you a dumb look...7th

DJS
Comparing vechicles to guns is apples to oranges. Guns will hold thier value pretty much, vechicles will go down every year with the exception of a few models. In other words would you buy an AR today that would be less than $200 7 or 8 years from now?(I'm comparing to cars here) If you plan on keeping it then why not, have fun with it and enjoy it. If I choose to buy a preban that cost more than its worth, knowing it will hold or go up in value, and later sell it for what it cost or profit from it, then more power to me.
It's good to see that SF and Hipower know the real deal.
I've made some good friends from riding, and we try at all cost to avoid the yuppie types. If I want advice I'll ask a guy who's been riding for 20 years or so, not one on a shiny new bike with less than a couple of thousand on it.
And last off, temps hit the low forties here today, the sun was shining, so I put a few miles on mine today. Just out by myself putting around, had a great time.

Not much of a website, though.  "Sorry, your browser doesn't support iFrames.  Please download / use the following:  MSIE 5.0 or higher, Netscape 6.0 or higher".

Sheesh.

The correlation is simple. You will pay a premium for a Colt rifle just for the name just like a Harley. You will get parts you don't want or need just cause Colt put them on the rifle, like plastic parts, oversize pins and no bayonet lugs. In my opinion most people see Colts as the end all of AR-15s. The "Anything else is just a copy" BS. I love my Colt rifle but it doesn't shoot any better than the others-but hey, it is a Colt.[:)]

You bought your Colt used at a competitive price just like I bought my Harley.

You didn't say if you had been to Mancuso's in Houston. They are a horrible dealership to work with and always add tons of crap to the bikes they have in stock and drive up the price. The dealership up here is pretty cool and usually sells the bikes as delivered. My brother-in-law bought a new Fatboy last year and they gave him %10 off assesories for a year. Not that this is a big deal, but I was shocked they threw in anything at all.

Okay, first of all, I bought it new for about $900. The Armalites and Bushys at the same show were about the same, maybe $50 less or so, but not half. I did't have to buy anything on it that I didn't want. I could have bought a cheaper one (even a Colt) but I wanted the 20" HBAR and everything on it just the way it was. But hey, it came straight from the factory like that. As I said before, I wasn't forced to buy anything that the dealer stuck on there and tried to screw me with. So I still think that it was a very poor analogy. Sorry, it's just not even close comparing the existing motorcycle industry to that of the AR world. Just my opinion.


I was going to buy a sportster back in 94. The retail price was listed at about $5,700. The equivelent jap bike was about $4,000. I decided to get the Harley at the time. I then went up to the dealership (Stubb's) and found a salesman. He then told me that it would cost me about $9,000 (it could have been higher but I think there was a quote for about $9,000) Well when I asked why it was so much more than the listed retail I got the speach about how they wouldn't sell one standard. They had to add all the crap and charge for it. I started looking at others (bigger ones). The same story applied there. Later I went to a dealership up North with a friend (can't remember the name right now) and the salesman there told me that I'd have to go back and buy one from Stubb's. He said that they don't sell to someone who lives in another dealership's area. I've continued to look at them and check them out over the last few years and the story hasn't changed much. I didn't really ever see a jap bike that I though I could like the looks of more than a HD. But then Honda came out with the Valkyrie. That one is just awfully damn beautiful.

Okay, so maybe the other dealerships in other areas don't pull this shit. Maybe they are more reasonable. I'm sincerely glad to hear it. I wish these Houston dealers would pull their heads outta their asses.

Well I'll worry about it when they make something as beautiful as the Valkyrie.  

Is this more like what the average rice rider would be?
[img]http://www.somethingawful.com/cliff/ihateyou/page-194-04.jpg[/img]

[;)]

Retro,

You should have kept looking.  I bought a '94 Sportster Deluxe (basically adding spoked wheels rather than the cast ones), for $6000.  That was about $300 over MSRP and $150 of that was an SE breather and teardrop airbox cover.

I rode that bike for 2 years and put about 15,000 miles on it then sold it for $7000 to buy the WGI still have.  I waited over a year(I ordered the Wide Glide 1 Jan 95, and got it in March of 96, but paid MSRP, and no add ons I didn't ask for even then.  

Things were crazy from about 93-96, but seem to have settled down.  Harley has added a dedicated Sportster prodution line at York, and I think they are building complete bikes in Milwaukee now also.  If you want a Sportster, you should be able to buy one at MSRP with no wait.

Some of the more popular Big Twins still may have waits or command more than MSRP but nothing like back in '94.

retrodog:

Sounds like you were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

If you want one now and are just dissatisfied with the local dealer, look around. Milwaukee has 5 dealers, surely there is more than one in the Houston metro area. I know of five dealers within a hour of my house and I live in a rural part of NC. Three sell at MSRP, no markups, no addons, no options. The one who was gouging heavily finally caught on and dropped his markup.

My cousin just bought a Valkyrie and it cost as much as some Harleys (though not a Touring model). Six months later he decided he wanted something else and he took it in the shorts on the trade. I swapped my six month old '00 Deuce for the '01 Road King almost even.

There is a list of MSRP dealers posted somewhere on the web and I do not have the url handy. Try a search for "Harley and MSRP" and  you may be able to find another dealer nearby. I have not found a dealer yet that would deny an in-state sale, especially if they thought you were close enough to buy your parts and service there, and the warranty is good anywhere.

You might also consider a letter to H-D with a cc to the dealership describing their shortcomings. Any dealer trying to sell a Sporty today for that much markup will not sell many bikes and will lose allocation.

If all else fails, there are always new/like new bikes to be had through the paper or internet. eBay is another place to look, there are occasional deals there.  AFAIK the warranties are all transferrable except for the rare Overseas Military Sales bikes.

Hardest bikes to get are generally going to be the VRSC, then Softails, then Dynas, then Touring bikes, and finally the Sportys. Buells are available at a discount.

If you really want the Valkyrie, buy it and enjoy the ride. If you still want the Sporty, the cheapest way is to get the 883 and have the service department make it a 1200.

Would someone please explain what a
"real biker" is?

We ain't one. A "real biker" is probably more akin to a "1%er" or closer to that. I am a motorcycle enthusiast.

Real biker? I'm certainly not one but I do love to ride,,, ever since about 66.

Yeah SF, you may be right. It may be very regional. I've lived down here for 17 years now. I guess I'm almost a real Texan by now.

Yes,  Sounds to me like a 5 year free rental!!!  I always wanted a "Workhorse Rifle" to test handloads and S&B ammo.

Send it to:
Torf
USA

If you say you don't like Harleys, you really must want one bad.     And if you still don't like Harleys,   Go ahead and buy a Buell, or better yet, a Victory.  Built in Osseo Wisconsin.  

    I've owned some perty damned good Jap bikes over the years such as Kawasaki, Yamaha, and
yes, even a couple of Honda Gold Wings,(Built in Marysville Ohio).  Great bikes, all of them. But when it came to trying to sell them....  WHO WANTS EM?  I sold a 69 Sportster for the same money I put into it.   Not bad for a bike that not only didn't run, but had a lot of missing parts.
    There are a few things though that just bothers the heck out of me about Harleys.  Some of the people who buy the things go and borrow every damned dime to pay for it.  Then go ahead and plaster every single piece of junk, crap, and "Born to Ride" garbage you can think of.  Then they think they can sell it to some schmuck for a profit.   Is it stored in a garage?  Hell No, it's in his living room! (no joke!).  
    Then there's the rallys and bike shows.  I look at it this way,  There's enough leather to knit a herd of cattle, and enough Bulls**t to prove there's really one there!  It's almost as bad as a Gold Wing Road Riders rally!   Except Harley riders don't want to know your name or where your from. Brotherhood my ass!
     There is also one other thing that gets me to wondering about Harley,   If they build such a great machine,  Why not put a warranty on it longer than 1 year?  It really screws up the guy who won't modify it after 10 minutes of ownership.    Why does this bother me?  I own stock in the company, that's why!  
                                          [soapbox]  

Many of you guys obviously either have Harley envy, have never ridden a hog, or are just goddamn idiots...

First, Harley doesn't "keep production low...to keep people on waiting lists".  I can't believe ANYONE would believe this!  They only make money when the bikes actually change hands, so it isn't logical that they woudln't make bikes as fast as they can!  Also, any increase in price over invoice just goes to the dealer!  

"Harley's cost twice as much as they should".  More bullshit.  A mostly hand built Harley versus a robotic construction line Jap bike?  I'll take the hog 1000-1!

More BS...Japs building better bikes and taking more pride.  You mean they build cheaper bikes and are glad they can shove more out the door so that hopefully they can play their part in getting their shitty economy back on line.

Let's see...what else...oh, yeah..."would rather ride than push".  Since the EVO motor was introduced with the 84 1/2 (it could be 85 or 87 1/2, I need to look it up but am too lazy to do it now) Low Rider, it has proven to be the most reliable motorcylcle engine ever built!  It was designedto go over 100,000 miles before a rebuild!!!  You'll NEVER see a Jap bike with an original engine at 100,000 miles!

Finally, why the hell are we discussing HDs on a gun board?  

Forgot to add in my last post.  Check out this link...
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=HD&d=c&k=c1&a=v&p=s&t=my&l=on&z=m&q=l

Your stock doesn't go up like that unless you build a QUALITY product!

Vulture20:

Got the factory 3 year (extra cost) warranty on my last three Harleys. Never used it on the '93 or '00. Haven't gone through the first year on the '01 yet.

Any options/chrome/etc. installed by the dealer at time of purchase are covered as well, except for the evil "For Race Applications Only, Not for Use on Public Highways" components.

If every bike that had those parts was running only on a racetrack, there would be a race every night in every town.

Why do all the harley owners give that bs response that no one can say anything bad about harley if they don't own one themselves ? Thats the stupidest come back I've ever heard. I don't like ford mustangs either but I'm not gonna go buy one so I can have the "right" to say my opinion that I think they suck.

If you just want to say they suck that's fine.

I have a hard time with someone that has never owned one, telling me they are unreliable, leak oil, are uncomfortable, or that "most" of the people riding them are fake, etc.

If you've never owned one, how would know?  If you don't own one it's highly unlikely that you personally know "most" of the people that ride them.

Yeah Hipower, Philadelphia_gunman doesn't know shit.  LOL  cuz J

Isn't this like a non-AR15 owner or shooter telling you that the rifle jams, is unreliable, inaccurate, a real POS, etc. cause he heard it from someone, who heard it from someone else?

Do you guys get this emotionally overwrought over canned soup, light bulbs, adhesive tape, toilet bowl cleaner, toaster ovens, blue jeans, #2 pencils, and other consumer goods?
Please, let me repeat: Harley is in business to make a profit, not to provide you with a heritage, a self-image, or a lifestyle.  They manufacture and sell what they think will maximize profits and therefore maximize value to the shareholders.  The same is true for the other motorcycle manufacturers, and for all publicly traded companies.  Privately held companies can indulge in projects that are a whim of the owner, at least until his whims bankrupt the company.  Harley and the rest answer to a board of directors who don't give a rat's a$$ whether you are a "real biker" or not.  They only thing they care about is whether you have the dinero to pay for their product.  Right now, thanks to masterful marketing and product placement, they are in a position where they don't need you as an individual at all.  There is somebody else who will buy that bike for what they are charging if you won't.
BTW, a "real biker" is anybody who thinks he  has owned a motorcycle longer than you.

Somebody here doesn't understand "supply and demand". You're calling other people idiots and you don't even know the basics of economics. How embarrasing.




Ah yes, not only do you know almost nothing about economics but you apparently know just as much about mechanics or electrical stuff. According to your statement here, the engine is the only functioning part of a bike, and therefore the only part that determines its dependability. No bike has ever broken down from electrical problems, induction problems, bolts falling out, etc., etc, etc. Yeah right.

You need to think these things through a little more before posting. You're not making a lot of sense.




I'm sorry, you must have gotten lost. You want to be in the "general firearm discussion" forum. You accidentally got into the "general discussion" forum. Your superior (Khan-like) intellect is showing through again. Oh wait, I see you haven't been around very long so maybe you don't understand where you are. In this forum you can discuss just about anything,,, including motorcycles.


Have I been a little bit of a smartass??? Well maybe. That's just the way I get when someone uses the "goddamn" phrase. God's probably got a last name but you can bet your ass that it isn't "damn"...

[b]Some people don't like loud pipes?[/b]
[blue]Well we don't like listining to your loud stereo at every stop light.[/blue]

Perhapse if you cry babies could be more aware of your surrondings we wouldnt need them to avoid getting hit.
There are way to many idiots on the road that can't see anything smaller than a geo.

Unlike loud stereos....
[size=5]LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES [/size=5]

As to the bike gun anology:

I think compairing a harley to a colt SAA and a jap bike to a ruger vaquero might be more fitting.

yes the ruger is built better yes its maintance free and yes it is substancialy cheaper.

But like the ad sayz "if its not a colt its just a copy".

If you dont like to get you hands "dirty" then you won't want a hog.

The history part is just a bonus  [:)]

I always get a real kick out of this. This is always the first thing that some obnoxious jerk says to justify this crap. You go get on your bike and then crank it up. You drive around making so much noise that people can't even hear other stuff around them. It's called noise pollution and it sucks. YOU choose to be SO DAMNED LOUD.

Staying out of blind spots saves lives
Having your headlight on saves lives
Giving the right of way to bigger vehicles saves lives
Driving defensively saves lives

Loud pipes are just taking advantage of a freedom. And we all know what happens when people take advantage of freedoms,,, they get taken away. Guys with loud pipes want to be seen but it's not usually because of a safety issue. They just want attention. "OOOH, look at me, I'm a cool dude on a motorcycle."

Just don't start rationalizing your rudeness with some safety message. That just makes you look like you think we're stupid.