Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 1/13/2002 5:02:07 PM EDT
Ok, if I knew what forum to post this in besides GD, I would. I just got one of these 'Body Armor, Fragmentation Protective Vests.' I would like to know what protection this offers to me as a homeowner investigating possible bad guys on my property? Will it stop shotgun pellets? Pistol caliber rounds? I am fairly certain it is just standard body armor, but I would like to know more about its use/shortcomings. TIA TheRedGoat
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 5:05:01 PM EDT
PASGT Frag Vests DO NOT STOP BULLETS. Benjamin
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 5:08:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Benjamin0001: PASGT Frag Vests DO NOT STOP BULLETS. Benjamin
View Quote
Ok, but a shotgun pellet would be stopped, right? What about a punk/prowler with a .22 pistol? A .25 raven? Cheap .38? Will it not stop ANY bullet? Or will it not stop 9mm and up? Hitting the search engines right now trying to find out more. Thanks TheRedGoat
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 5:10:56 PM EDT
I don't think it will. It may be rated Level II or IIa at best. But something is better then nothing. Now if it has pockets for rifle plates then you are in good as you can order Ceramic Stand Alone Level IV Rifle Plates for about $600 - $800 US. Level IV will stop all .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum at certain distance and 5.56 Nato and 7.62 Warsaw Pact at a distance. Benjamin
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 5:13:21 PM EDT
But don't know if this extends to Black Tipped AP or anything like that, but with Good Rifle plates will stop standard ball ammunition pretty well. But even saying that you can still be killed , break your ribs, stop your heart, etc... Best protection against gun fire is Don't Be There. benjamin
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 5:15:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Benjamin0001: I don't think it will. But something is better then nothing.
View Quote
This is the angle I am going from. I don't think it will stop most/all bullets. But it is certainly going to slow down the round.
Now if it has pockets for rifle plates then you are in good as you can order Ceramic Stand Alone Level IV Rifle Plates for about $600 - $800 US.
View Quote
Nope, just checked, no plate pockets [:(] TheRedGoat
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 5:27:06 PM EDT
Just be the one to shoot first
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 5:28:18 PM EDT
They are made to stop Fragments from handgrenades, bombs, etc. Not bullets. Will it stop cheap and wimpy loads, maybe, but a heavy coat might also. Do you really want to chance it? We have shot all sorts of calibers at PASGT frag vests and they don't stop crap. If you want a bullet resistant vest cheap, get on ebay and buy someone's old used one and get a little more comfort
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 5:29:20 PM EDT
Black tip usgi 30-06 has penetrated just about every thing I have tried it on including 1/2 thick wall 4x4 box steel (post or tubing --not sure what it is called )in one side and out the other stripped the jacket and looked like a torch cut in side 2 where the pentrator exited. I wouldnt trust any body armor to stop it .308 black tip is not quite as hot but still has pretty good pentration agianst hard targets. small pistol bullets and indirect fragments yes it will trap those but not direct fire rifle calibers.Depending upon the situation the weight tradeoff for the protection gained may not be worthwhile.
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 5:49:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Unrepentant_Sinner: We have shot all sorts of calibers at PASGT frag vests and they don't stop crap.
View Quote
THAT is what I wanted to know. TheRedGoat
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 6:27:34 PM EDT
Just after the LA riots Solider of Fortune had an article on what a Flak Vest would stop. It rated at between II and IIA. I forget what exactly it stopped but it stopped quite a few rounds.
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 6:37:33 PM EDT
If you want a vest to stop everything a hangun can throw at you (e.g., FN7), you would probably need a walker just to get about.
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 6:55:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ConnYankee: Just after the LA riots Solider of Fortune had an article on what a Flak Vest would stop. It rated at between II and IIA. I forget what exactly it stopped but it stopped quite a few rounds.
View Quote
Huh? This goes against everything I have heard about a flak vest. Any chance you might have a link or maybe an old issue lyin' around?
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 8:56:08 AM EDT
TheRedGoat - First, let me preface this by saying that the above posts recommending buying an inexpensive, good condition, used police-style bullet resistant vest are right on the money. That is a good way to go. EBay has them for under $150. Now for your PASGT Kevlar vest question. PASGT Kevlar vest panels are made of 13 layers of Kevlar29 ballistic fabric. NIJ IIA Concealable Kevlar vests are made from around 14-16 on average. So technically, the PASGT vest is comparable to a IIA vest in construction. Last spring I bought a couple cheap, used, beat up looking (but with good panels) PASGT vests (and a USGI K-Pot helmet) and took them to the range with me and some friends. We shot them up pretty good with a .22LR rifle, 9mm, .40 cal, and a .45. NONE of the rounds penetrated a panel, front or back at point blank range. A 9mm mind you, is one of the hardest handgun rounds for armor to stop. The high velocity and pointy shape lend themselves to good penetration. The 9mm I was using was 124gr NATO FMJ out of a Glock 17, so the velocity was most likely 1200+ FPS. According to NIJ, even a level II vest is only rated for a 9mm 124gr FMJ at 1175 FPS. Level IIA vests are down around 1080. So by rights, those bullets should be able to defeat a level II, let alone a IIA but can they? Doubtful. The PASGT Kevlar vests in good shape are much better than nothing and have the advantage of covering much more areas of the torso than a concealable vest. Are they comparable to a level IIIA, III, or IV... nope. Will they protect you about as much as a IIA... probably. I'm quite sure it will stop a 12 guage hit by shot (not slugs). Also, don't underestimate a .22 LR. Because of their small cross-section and velocity, they can penetrate Kevlar better than you'd expect (better than a .45 easily), trust me. The NIJ won't rate the PASGT vests because they are front opening and don't have 4"+ overlap. That is a requirement of NIJ testing. It wouldn't matter if the PASGT vests had 50 layers of Kevlar 129, they'd still be unrated by the NIJ. Also, a level IV plate will stop a .30-06 AP or lesser round from point blank range. A level III plate will stop a 5.56mm ball or 7.62 NATO AP or lesser rounds. Finally, the best advice is when it comes to gunfire, don't get in its way! (Benjamin is right about that). [:)]
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 9:06:18 AM EDT
Slightly off-topic, but when my buddies and I got into BB gun wars, my best friend and I made body armor out of cardboard and duct tape. We'd cut out sections of corrugated cardboard for our torso (front and rear) and forearms. Then we'd duct tape the pieces to an old sweatshirt, then put another green or brown sweatshirt over that. The protection was pretty darn good if you got hit in those areas. We found ourselves laughing when we got hit there as you'd feel nothing but a "thunk" and absolutely no pain. Of course, we also wore goggles.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 9:31:55 AM EDT
Ill dig out the old SOF mag tonight and post the readers digest version.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 10:20:28 AM EDT
I really appreciate the information. Guess there is some misinformation floating around about these older, heavy vests. Thank you for those that posted what they know, it certainly opened my eyes. Body armor might seem a little odd to some when considering using it to investigate strange noises at night. I am amused by some of the posts that make light (not in this thread) of people 'over reacting' to nocturnal threats. Once you have been through a situation where a 'bump in the night' shoots at you or a family member it will change your perspective on body armor. TheRedGoat Connyankee, if you find the article, thanks in advance for posting a synopsis.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 10:35:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By offctr: Black tip usgi 30-06 has penetrated just about every thing I have tried it on including 1/2 thick wall 4x4 box steel (post or tubing --not sure what it is called )in one side and out the other stripped the jacket and looked like a torch cut in side 2 where the pentrator exited. I wouldnt trust any body armor to stop it
View Quote
Where can I get some of this .30-06 AP ammo. I've heard it's legal & available BUT who sells it ???????
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 10:50:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2002 10:50:37 AM EDT by tcsd1236]
[URL]http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/pasgtv.htm[/URL] Some of my other bookmarks dealing with military flak vests are dead, but essentially, they are FLAK vests, not bullet resistant vests. Don't ask it to do something it wasn't intended for.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 11:27:43 AM EDT
all of the new generation of military body armor vests are designed to stop bullet threats. The Interceptor Body Armor with the Small Arms Protective Insert (IBA and SAPI) are effective against multiple 7.62mmx39mm rounds, and the IBA alone is rated to 9mm subgun rounds. You can usually get the vests on ebay for a decent price, but the plates are harder to get. HTH -bill
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 1:34:06 PM EDT
CNATRA: Go to http://www.gunbroker.com and do a search on "ap" or for real fun, "apit". You will find armor piercing, and armor piercing incendiary tracers for real crowd pleasing fun. Of course, I think the APITS are not available for .30-06, but you never know. Have fun.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 1:50:18 PM EDT
Flak jackets are not proof against "small arms" fire. But the military considers anything under .50bmg to be "small arms". Thr surplus flak jacket should be more than enuff to stop most of the pistol rounds the average hoodlum might send your way. I seriously doubt that the typical punk will be packing a folding stock AK or AR under their jacket, more likely a POS Raven/Jennings/Lorcin/Davis etc. Maybe a .38special or 9mm.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 2:17:18 PM EDT
[url]http://www.bulletproofme.com/PHOTO%20pages/Ballistic_Testing_PHOTOS.shtml[/url] This will help I hope. Keving67
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 3:31:47 PM EDT
Straight from page 1 of my Use and Care of Body Armor Fragmentation Protective Vest Ground Troops manual: "The vest does not protect you against small arms fire. It may tend to decrease the severity of wounds from rifles and machine guns and will sometimes stop small-arms fire if hit from an angle or if the slug has low velocity." As RiffRandall points out, the military considers all .50 caliber and lesser weapons to be small arms. ANY handgun or shotgun round is going to be considered "low velocity" with regards to that definition. No soft armor can protect you against small-arms per the military's definition of small arms. The vest may not be originally designed to stop bullets, but that is in the rifle sense. Who gets shot by a pistol on a battlefield? If you go to the webpage posted by keving67, you'll see that even 3" magnum 00 buckshot was stopped in the fourth layer (the PASGT vest has 13) of the Kevlar and the .38 and .45 bounced off the vest! Actually, I can attest to the .45 performance as the vests I shot last year did make the .45 slugs bounce off for me too. It may fail the "backface deformity" test, but they will not penetrate. So although it was originally designed as a frag vest, it does an OK job with handgun protection.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 8:09:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2002 8:12:12 PM EDT by Benjamin0001]
I for one would like to not believe in my vest at all, and have it be more then I will ever really need; then be overconfident in it and have the 1 in a 100,000 shot kill me. In other words always KNOW,"that if you get shot your are going to die, and then when you don't because your vest totally kicks ass, it is a good day to be alive." Only superman can deflect bullets. In other words respect ones enemy and know that he is capable of killing you. Or put another way, FEAR KEEPS YOU ALIVE, ALWAYS BE AFRAID. Benjamin
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 8:28:22 PM EDT
Top Top