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Posted: 1/11/2002 10:03:46 PM EDT
Anyone know how the following two words / phrase came about? 1.) Pipedream 2.) Salt of the earth -when describing someone Thanks for the answer in advance.
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 10:10:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 10:24:26 PM EDT
Doublefeed is damned close. salt of the earth refers to the noblest or most beautiful people, old English roots, for the benefits that salt has. pipe dream, from 1800's, refers to the whacked out dreams that opium brings. yeah!
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 10:39:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 10:42:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: Got one for you: What does "Flash in the Pan" mean?
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I know! Flintlocks and matchlocks in the old days had a pan that you poured a bit of powder into to ignite the main charge. So "flash in the pan" means a very loud or observed event, but short-lasting.
Link Posted: 1/11/2002 11:02:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By felixcat: Anyone know how the following two words / phrase came about? 1.) Pipedream 2.) Salt of the earth -when describing someone Thanks for the answer in advance.
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Got Salt? You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men. --Matthew 5:13 Like so many of the phrases coined by Jesus, "salt of the earth" has become a commonplace saying, although it's often used without much understanding of its meaning. People use the term whenever someone seems good or admirable to them. They express their admiration by describing the person as "the salt of the earth." Jesus was using the phrase in the context of addressing those who would be persecuted and maligned for being associated with Him. (See Walk of Faith devotional from March 2 for the beatitude Christ was building upon in today's verse.) He was telling the persecuted ones that their close relationship with Him not only made them starkly different from the lost world, but made them a good influence on it. Salt's most important use in that day was as a preservative. (It would be centuries before God would inspire man with the knowledge to make the refrigerators we take for granted today.) At that time, fish or other meats were kept from rotting and decaying by curing them with salt. So Jesus wasn't just telling His followers, "You know? You guys are the spice of life. The world tastes better because of you." He was saying that His people are His tools for protecting society against decay and corruption.
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 6:50:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 5:44:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 5:53:12 AM EDT
This is one of my favorite word origins... according to what's been written in various sources, it's a reference to US Naval aviation in the Pacific theater during WWII. My understanding is the F4U Corsair had six .50 cal guns in the wings, and rather than count individual rounds, the belts were simply measured by length in yards. So dumping the whole nine yards of half inch ball into an individual target would amount for a substantial amount of damage. Good stuff. The phrase apparently doesn't have any reference to football or the textile industry..[heavy]
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 6:10:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 6:35:21 PM EDT
I was told that it refered to the lenght of the cloth belts used in the WWI bi-planes
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 6:42:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2002 6:49:14 PM EDT by nightstalker]
P-51 Mustang is correct re: "whole nine yards" I've come across this in quite a few places. My Uncle flew a P-51 in the Po Valley at the end of the war. [url]www.floridatoday.com/news/columnists/milt/091300milt.htm[/url] Further searching however reveals the Corsair story and the men's clothing issue, which is much older. Oh well...... [url]lawlibrary.ucdavis.edu/LAWLIB/Sept99/0456.html[/url]
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 6:50:02 PM EDT
"The whole nine yards" WWII Fighters were loaded with ammunition, typically in belts 27 feet long. To give someone the "Whole nine yards" was to expend all ammunition into one target. Therefore, the whole nine yards is used to describe a "total" effort to do something... Now, how about "cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey?" Clue - it's not what you might first think... Its origins are in no way anatomical. FFZ
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 6:53:18 PM EDT
Okay. What's the origin of the term "Blackmailer'?
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 6:58:04 PM EDT
The frame work to hold iron callon balls in the English Navy was made out of brass, it was called a "monkey" when the temp dropped to freezing the brass would contract, the iron cannon balls would not and they would roll off. Hence the turn "Cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey"
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 7:01:17 PM EDT
I was hoping it would take a LITTLE longer... Try this one - "Worth his salt." No clues this time... Oh, WHY were monkeys made from brass? Just checking you... 5-90
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 7:14:00 PM EDT
This has been answered already more or less. At least part of a Centurion's pay was in salt – hence salary – hence, worth his pay.
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 8:36:22 PM EDT
I got one! I got one! "Rule of Thumb"
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 8:43:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 8:53:09 PM EDT
While not having a viable answer for any of this, I think this has the potential of being the most interesting thread in quite some time...
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 8:54:16 PM EDT
FreeFireZone' the brass monkey is an easy one for any NAVY type. A monkey is a plate with divits in it that hold cannon balls in neat piles. brass was the easiest metal to work with at the time. So to freeze the balls off a brass monkey it had to be cold enough to freeze the salt water spray that collected in the divits lifting the cannon balls out making them spill onto the deck.. How about "a long hardship" or "feeling under the weather" ... also easy if your into nautical...pat
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 8:59:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 9:03:24 PM EDT
nope!... the weather deck of a sailing man o' war was a deck below the main with open sides as to be expose to the weather. Sick sailors were not allowed to berth with healthy ones even if the weather was bad. They were made to sleep and eat there. With only a roof and no walls they got even sicker! hence the term under the weather.
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 9:09:33 PM EDT
Give you a hint on " a long hardship " to endure one is quite a feat! A hardship in old days was a ship armed as in a ship of the line which is another term...pat
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 9:17:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 9:23:39 PM EDT
I saw a History Channel show on Browning that said that the whole nine yards refered to the 27 ft cloth belts that one of his machine guns shot. I haven't heard the ones about the airplane machine guns. Is the one I heard incorrect? Also, I have heard numerous times that the brass monkey thing was an urban legend. Couldn't tell you for sure myself. tony
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 9:28:59 PM EDT
The brass monkey is not an urban ledgend... on a mon o'war the monkey on a gun crew was usualy a youg teen(13 or 14 years old) that handled the cannon balls. the brass monkey was where stored them. The best ref. for this is in some of the old sailing novels written in the late 1800's that use the original sailors language....pat
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 9:31:44 PM EDT
To endure a "long hardship was to survive being keel hauled on a war ship of considerable length... ok an easy one.... GUNG HO
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 9:36:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 9:39:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2002 9:40:01 PM EDT by Hexagram13]
Pat, Here is where I had gotten my info. Like I said, I cn;t say yay or nay. tony forgot the url http://www.snopes2.com/language/stories/brass.htm
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 9:45:54 PM EDT
Hexagram, I dont doubt your link, but if its ledgend its is a very old ledgent...say at least 150 years... Gung ho.. China....Col. Carlson's Raiders...
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 9:15:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: Vinnie, it is a reference to an old rule about the size of stick used to hit somebody. It could not be wider than the thumb.
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Just to elaborate: Men were allowed to "Discipline" their Wominz with a stick no wider than their thumb.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 9:50:56 AM EDT
... You guys are [i]almost[/i] correct on "freezing the balls off a brass monkey". ... The brass monkey is indeed a brass plate with dimples matching the same radii of the cannon balls. They stacked the cannon balls to a pyramid shape. However, it was designed with brass to inhibit the insidious corrosive effects of salt spray. What the designers overlooked was the significant delta between the coefficient of thermal expansion between brass and iron. Once it became just cold enough for the brass monkey to out shrink the iron cannon balls the pyramid would come crashing down. Thus I give you: [size=3]“It was cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey”[/size=3]
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 10:03:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2002 10:04:10 AM EDT by ABN-RGR]
Here is an easy one..."Lock, Stock, and Barrel"
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 10:05:40 AM EDT
Another one...Where did the phrase "Hooooah" come from. This is a widely debated question in the military.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 11:03:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By stcyr: Okay. What's the origin of the term "Blackmailer'?
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This comes from early Scotland. There was a clan named the Douglas clan. They wore a very dark blue tartan, it was almost black. In times of financial hardship they would kidnap a rival clansman and demand a ransom. Since the kidnapped clansman was wrapped in a tartan, they other clans would call it Blackmailing.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 12:27:22 PM EDT
Balls to the wall.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 12:34:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Royal_Lancer: The frame work to hold iron callon balls in the English Navy was made out of brass, it was called a "monkey" when the temp dropped to freezing the brass would contract, the iron cannon balls would not and they would roll off. Hence the turn "Cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey"
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Not true. Shot was stored in wooden shot garlands, and NEVER stored loose in a brass anything. Even without freezing, a roll of the ship would have released the shot to wreak havoc on the ship. If you like, you can use google to search for a detailed rebuttal of that very story.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 12:42:23 PM EDT
Wiggy762 – never heard that one, I was assured "blackmail" came from the following: Centuries ago, the penalty for defeat in a jousting contest was not death – it usually meant forfeiting your horse to the winner. Returning home from these contests without your horse (or a different one) was a shameful affair since it meant you had lost. Most of the participants in these tournaments were wealthy noblemen and knights or their sons etc., and losing your horse was seen as a big disgrace. But there were also some professionals (not wealthy nobles) who took part and they were good. These professionals could not afford servants to constantly keep their armour and chainmail clean and free of rust,so they covered it in pitch to prevent rusting. When these guys won a contest, they would demand money from those they defeated as an alternative to taking their horse. The defeated nobles were happy to pay-up rather than lose their horse and suffer the shame of being seen as a loser. So they paid these guys in the pitch black chainmail – the ones they called the "blackmailers"!
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 1:42:28 PM EDT
"The whole ball of wax"? Come on guys, getting obscure!
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 2:25:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul: Where did this nautical terms come from? Gun Decking - to do something half-@ss Scuttlebutt - rumors Head (as in the toilet facitlities [;)] Goat rope - a worthless task The goat locker - CPO mess Ropeyard Fridays [:D] - a half day
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Continuing nautical what about 'holiday' ?
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 2:28:26 PM EDT
Lots of salt here so why not an easy but salty one - "below the salt ?"
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 2:30:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Halfcocked: Balls to the wall.
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Old aviation term. In a piston engine aircraft, the throttle, mixture & prop speed controls all had round knobs on the end. Full throttle, full rpm, full rich was where the engine put out the most horsepower. Shove the controls as far forward as they go & you're "balls to the wall."
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 2:47:12 PM EDT
"Once in a blue moon." (I larnt thisun in the last few months.)
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 2:53:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2002 2:55:33 PM EDT by Keith_J]
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: "Once in a blue moon." (I larnt thisun in the last few months.)
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Come on now. A blue moon is the second full moon in a calendar month. These are not quite as rare as the phrase makes believe as the lunar cycle is 28 days, the same number of days as only one month...non-leapyear Feb. There are 13 lunar cycles in a calendar year so there has to be at least one blue moon per year. 30 days hath Sept, the rest of them I cannot remember. Without a complex program, I cannot say how many blue moons we have had in the past two years but there have been a few. On to the whole ball of wax. I'm surprised no one has done an OJ on it, you know, taken a STAB at it. HAHAHAHAHAHAH!
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 3:18:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: "Once in a blue moon." (I larnt thisun in the last few months.)
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Come on now. A blue moon is the second full moon in a calendar month. These are not quite as rare as the phrase makes believe as the lunar cycle is 28 days, the same number of days as only one month...non-leapyear Feb. There are 13 lunar cycles in a calendar year so there has to be at least one blue moon per year. 30 days hath Sept, the rest of them I cannot remember. Without a complex program, I cannot say how many blue moons we have had in the past two years but there have been a few. On to the whole ball of wax. I'm surprised no one has done an OJ on it, you know, taken a STAB at it. HAHAHAHAHAHAH!
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I still didn't know what it meant until about forty years ago. (lie, lie)
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 3:19:56 PM EDT
"Fair-to-midling"
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 3:48:25 PM EDT
I don't know that we're discussing word origins, but more phrase origins. I used to be good at finding meanings of these (girlfriend at the time had a book with most of them). Gung Ho was from a chinese phrase meaning 'all together,' as in everyone working together. The whole nine yards I believe DID refer to the amount of ammunition per machine gun in a WWII era fighter plane. Flash In The Pan did refer to a misfire in a flintlock or matchlock rifle. You get a lick, a FOOSH and nothing. I've had a few of those in my flintlock here's a related one: Where did 'Spruced Up' come from?? M@
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