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Posted: 1/8/2002 11:44:33 AM EDT
[#1]
I'm gettin one of them AR-180B's.
Yes, I've got some pre-ban AR-180's but I still want the 180B. I especially want the different uppers to come later this year for the 180B that will also work on the pre-ban 180's. [smoke] |
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Posted: 1/8/2002 3:41:40 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: I'm gettin one of them AR-180B's. Yes, I've got some pre-ban AR-180's but I still want the 180B. [smoke] |
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Posted: 1/8/2002 3:44:45 PM EDT
[#3]
I will wait till I see one live and in person, and I see a price that is at, near, or below the $590 sticker. Chances are though I am all over it.
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Posted: 1/8/2002 4:07:43 PM EDT
[#4]
Any chance this is one of those instances where "you get what you pay for?"
AR180B $590 vs. AR15 $900 |
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Posted: 1/8/2002 4:07:47 PM EDT
[#5]
Nothin' against the AR 180B, but the M17S bullpup has the same op-sys, and a better configuration, to boot.
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Posted: 1/8/2002 4:08:46 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Any chance this is one of those instances where "you get what you pay for?" AR180B $590 vs. AR15 $900 |
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Posted: 1/8/2002 4:09:28 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: Nothin' against the AR 180B, but the M17S bullpup has the same op-sys, and a better configuration, to boot. The question was "who is getting an AR180B", not "who is not getting an AR180B", or "who wants to ridicule the AR180B", or "who wants to slam the AR180B". |
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Posted: 1/8/2002 4:14:19 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Quoted: Nothin' against the AR 180B, but the M17S bullpup has the same op-sys, and a better configuration, to boot. Cost is not an issue, point taken. Please enlighten me as to how the two op-sys differ in a significant way. Let's leave off the std config/vs/ bullpup arguement for now. WHOA, buddy, not at all to ridicule the AR 180B. Get a grip, buddy, you're among friends, here, I think. |
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Posted: 1/8/2002 4:17:05 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nothin' against the AR 180B, but the M17S bullpup has the same op-sys, and a better configuration, to boot. Cost is not an issue, point taken. Please enlighten me as to how the two op-sys differ in a significant way. Let's leave off the std config/vs/ bullpup arguement for now. I admit that I don't like bullpups, so I can't leave that out, and I would rather have anything ArmaLite makes over anyone else. |
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Posted: 1/8/2002 4:22:04 PM EDT
[#10]
WOW, buddy, take it easy, OK?
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Posted: 1/8/2002 4:27:25 PM EDT
[#11]
RRotz: To address your subject title question; I signed up for one at their site. We'll see what happens if I ever get notified that one is available to me.
As to whether or not it's worth it vs. a pre-ban, I couldn't say. Sometimes we actually do get what we pay for. |
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Posted: 1/8/2002 4:41:04 PM EDT
[#12]
I, too am a fan of Armalite.
However, when the cost of one widget is 70% of another comparable widget, one has to wonder why the cheaper widget costs less than the other, comparable widget. This will be interesting, when the cheaper widget is finally released. Perhaps I will purchase one. Perhaps not. |
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Posted: 1/8/2002 4:54:34 PM EDT
[#13]
It's a nice looking rifle, it's new, I can use my AR-15 mags, and the price is reasonable. It's bound to be fun. Good enough for me. I want one.
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Posted: 1/8/2002 5:06:47 PM EDT
[#14]
Nothing against the AR 180B. Seems like a great iteration on the AR theme.
I wouldn't trade my M17S for one, though, assuming an AR 180B was available..... |
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Posted: 1/8/2002 5:09:07 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: Nothing against the AR 180B. Seems like a great iteration on the AR theme. I wouldn't trade my M17S for one, though, assuming an AR 180B was available..... I think I might have to get both. |
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Posted: 1/8/2002 5:20:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Quoted: Nothing against the AR 180B. Seems like a great iteration on the AR theme. I wouldn't trade my M17S for one, though, assuming an AR 180B was available..... I think I might have to get both. I think that you just might be the smartest poster here. [:D] |
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Posted: 1/8/2002 5:33:41 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: I will wait till I see one live and in person, and I see a price that is at, near, or below the $590 sticker. Chances are though I am all over it. Saw one at Camp Perry. It is a must have. |
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Posted: 1/8/2002 7:40:07 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: I will wait till I see one live and in person, and I see a price that is at, near, or below the $590 sticker. Chances are though I am all over it. $590.00 introductory and I think $650.00 is going to be regular retail. |
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Posted: 1/8/2002 7:48:47 PM EDT
[#19]
cruffler.com has a fantastic review on it. They rate it as a must buy. It's ugly, it's cheap, and it's the best value in Sport Utility Rifles in a LONG time.
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Posted: 1/8/2002 7:51:29 PM EDT
[#20]
I have had an AR180B on order from Armalite since June and I am still waiting not so patiently.
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Posted: 1/8/2002 7:55:33 PM EDT
[#21]
February for me. (on order)
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Posted: 1/9/2002 4:33:14 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: WOW, buddy, take it easy, OK? |
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Posted: 1/9/2002 4:53:18 PM EDT
[#23]
The AR180 is cheaper than an AR15 because it was designed to be made out of metal stampings that don't require a lot of expensive machining. LOTS of machining time goes into turning raw aluminum forgings into finished receivers.
Is the AR180 as good a rifle as the AR15? IMO, not quite, but close. Is it a bargain at its asking price? You bet. -Troy |
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Posted: 1/9/2002 5:46:20 PM EDT
[#24]
Is the AR180 as good a rifle as the AR15? IMO, not quite, but close. Is it a bargain at its asking price? You bet. Let's put this thing on even footing: is the AR180B as good as the base model Mini 14 Ruger priced at $606 suggested retail? Any questions? I see the end of the Mini 14 as we know it if ArmaLite will get the production rolling on the AR180B. |
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Posted: 1/9/2002 5:51:08 PM EDT
[#25]
I have my name on the mailing list. I hope that means they will contact me when they ship. $590 is that the retail or dealer price??? I would blow a load if dealer is less than the $590 mark!
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Posted: 1/9/2002 5:53:36 PM EDT
[#26]
Dealer price for an AR180B is about $480.00.
Dealer price for a Mini-14 is about $380.00. |
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Posted: 1/9/2002 5:59:53 PM EDT
[#27]
Dealer price for an AR180B is about $480.00. Dealer price for a Mini-14 is about $380.00. I don't think so, my man. In Gun List Bachman Pawn & Gun has new Mini 14s for $449.95 and various other dealers in Gun List list Minis from $425 to $490 for new guns. |
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Posted: 1/9/2002 6:03:45 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: In Gun List Bachman Pawn & Gun has new Mini 14s for $449.95 and various other dealers in Gun List list Minis from $425 to $490 for new guns. I suspect those are Stainless synthetics or Ranch rifles. A standard Blue and Wood Mini-14 sells for $398.00 at my local gun store. |
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Posted: 1/9/2002 6:06:41 PM EDT
[#29]
Don't know about the Mini, never owned one but the dealer price for the AR180B as of June was $480.00 (may be lower for volume dealers). Best friend is an FFL, I get my toys at cost. Most recent aquisiton was a complete RRA lower $175.00 shipped. Life aint too bad.
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Posted: 1/9/2002 6:11:02 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Any chance this is one of those instances where "you get what you pay for?" AR180B $590 vs. AR15 $900 $900 sounds like alot for an AR. Is that a pre-ban price you are talking about? I bought a NIB Bushmaster AK Shorty A2 on Auctionarms for $675, $25 shipping, $25 transfer fee. What are the 180Bs really going to sell for? |
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Posted: 1/9/2002 6:12:43 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: Nothin' against the AR 180B, but the M17S bullpup has the same op-sys, and a better configuration, to boot. While I like my M17s, and I'm a big bullpup proponent, the AR-180 is a better executed design. The gas system is user serviceable by standard field stripping. Yeah, Bushmaster says, "you don't have to clean the gas system" but that's what was said of the M16, and I have yet to see a self-cleaning gas system that really was. On the 180 you just remove the handguards, pull back the piston, remove the short section, remove the long section. That's it. No screws, or anything to mess with. Further the piston on the AR-180 is a bit more robust than the M-17s unit. While the bolt carriers are quite similar, the 180's bolt can be removed for lubrication without having to drive out a pin. The M-17s is a sealed unit. If it gets wet, you have to do real work to get in there and clean/lube it properly. Other advantages to the AR-180B is the use of AR-15 lower internals. That's not too big an issue, as I think the internal trigger pack (which is actually a pack) in the M-17s is a pretty good idea and readily available from Bushmaster. Still, it will keep things easier logistically for some. I look at the AR-180B as having all of the advantages of the M-17s (clean gas system, easy to maintain, conventional piston, etc) in a lower cost, conventional platform that has the added bonus of being left-handed capable, easier to service, and not require any user mods just to be functional. The AR-180B will likely have a better trigger out of the box and won't burn your hand off when you fire a couple mags through it. The sights are excellent, and it will still mount a scope. I've owned a pre-ban 180 and it was far closer to a useable military quality rifle than the M-17s. While the compactness of the bulpup is great, and impossible to achieve in a conventional post-ban with the same barrel length, there is also a place for a conventional rifle as well. I have always thought the AR-180 would have been a better starting point than the AR-15, and I have every intention of buying a 180B when I get to see one. Ross |
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Posted: 1/9/2002 6:16:18 PM EDT
[#32]
I suspect those are Stainless synthetics or Ranch rifles. Nope. I haven't seen Minis priced like that in about six years. I'd say your local guy is either out of step or desperate to get rid of 'em. |
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Posted: 1/9/2002 6:25:28 PM EDT
[#33]
I have every intention of buying a 180B when I get to see one. Admittedly, I was nonplussed when ArmaLite first announced the AR180B. However, after examining the sample model that they brought to Tulsa in October, it's been weighing heavily on my mind ever since. A cheap, ACCURATE rifle that accepts standard AR-15 fire control parts (match triggers!!) and AR-15/M16 magazines and its retail is LESS than $600?!!! |
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Posted: 1/9/2002 6:32:47 PM EDT
[#34]
My pre-ban 180 was one of the few guns that I ever regret selling (the ORIGINAL Sudanese AR-10 was the other). It was a great rifle, and I have always thought highly of the design. I was glad that ARmalite decided to do it, as I would have cried to see a lesser company try it. At least the quality will more likely be there with Armalite than some of the other AR builders. I was actually glad to see that Armalite delayed distribution as well. It was a sign to me that they were going to get it done right because they have a reputation to uphold. All of those factors point to a good start for a great gun. I do know that I'd rather PAY for an AR-180B than a M96.
Ross |
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Posted: 1/9/2002 6:51:06 PM EDT
[#35]
Anybody know when these will be available?
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Posted: 1/9/2002 7:39:59 PM EDT
[#36]
Where do they have them for sale at?
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Posted: 1/9/2002 8:16:00 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: I see the end of the Mini 14 as we know it if ArmaLite will get the production rolling on the AR180B. There will still be quite a few people who won't like the military look of the AR-180. I'm afraid we will be stuck with the Mini for some time. |
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Posted: 1/10/2002 4:22:30 AM EDT
[#38]
There will still be quite a few people who won't like the military look of the AR-180. I'm afraid we will be stuck with the Mini for some time. Oh I don't think it'll go away, because there'll be people like you mentioned plus things like the Caliban that'll prevent individuals from owning so-called AWs. However, I think we'll see the Mini get a little more accurate if the AR-180B cuts into Ruger's sales with any significance. Then again, I may just be full of crap. |
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Posted: 1/10/2002 10:28:32 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: Quoted: Nothin' against the AR 180B, but the M17S bullpup has the same op-sys, and a better configuration, to boot. While I like my M17s, and I'm a big bullpup proponent, the AR-180 is a better executed design. The gas system is user serviceable by standard field stripping. Yeah, Bushmaster says, "you don't have to clean the gas system" but that's what was said of the M16, and I have yet to see a self-cleaning gas system that really was. On the 180 you just remove the handguards, pull back the piston, remove the short section, remove the long section. That's it. No screws, or anything to mess with. Further the piston on the AR-180 is a bit more robust than the M-17s unit. While the bolt carriers are quite similar, the 180's bolt can be removed for lubrication without having to drive out a pin. The M-17s is a sealed unit. If it gets wet, you have to do real work to get in there and clean/lube it properly. Other advantages to the AR-180B is the use of AR-15 lower internals. That's not too big an issue, as I think the internal trigger pack (which is actually a pack) in the M-17s is a pretty good idea and readily available from Bushmaster. Still, it will keep things easier logistically for some. I look at the AR-180B as having all of the advantages of the M-17s (clean gas system, easy to maintain, conventional piston, etc) in a lower cost, conventional platform that has the added bonus of being left-handed capable, easier to service, and not require any user mods just to be functional. The AR-180B will likely have a better trigger out of the box and won't burn your hand off when you fire a couple mags through it. The sights are excellent, and it will still mount a scope. I've owned a pre-ban 180 and it was far closer to a useable military quality rifle than the M-17s. While the compactness of the bulpup is great, and impossible to achieve in a conventional post-ban with the same barrel length, there is also a place for a conventional rifle as well. I have always thought the AR-180 would have been a better starting point than the AR-15, and I have every intention of buying a 180B when I get to see one. Ross I am in near-complete agreement with your post, except for a couple of points: (1) The M17S is really quite clean running. A few shots oc carb cleaner on some of the components every 1000 rds or so in addition to normal maintainence is really all that's needed. MUCH cleaner than the AR15. (2) The M17S' overheating and trigger issues are easily and cheaply addressed by most users. Agreed that these issues are (hopefully) not present in the 180B. (3) I would call the AR15A2's sights excellent, the 180B's good, and the M17S' laughable. If the 180B were sold with rear sights very similar to the AR15A2, I'd probably buy one as well. I think the 180B is a good product, at least on paper, and according to reviews. I'm sure it will sell well. |
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Posted: 1/10/2002 9:50:20 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: If the 180B were sold with rear sights very similar to the AR15A2, I'd probably buy one as well. I think the 180B is a good product, at least on paper, and according to reviews. I'm sure it will sell well. |
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Posted: 1/10/2002 9:51:25 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Dealer price for an AR180B is about $480.00. Dealer price for a Mini-14 is about $380.00. |
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Posted: 1/11/2002 6:31:41 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: Quoted: If the 180B were sold with rear sights very similar to the AR15A2, I'd probably buy one as well. I think the 180B is a good product, at least on paper, and according to reviews. I'm sure it will sell well. I'm aware of that. And while such a rear sight is preferable for the average soldier in a combat situation, it is (IMHO) an error on Armalite's part not to provide a better, optional, rear sight for those of us who are neither soldiers nor in combat, nor, dare I say, average. |
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Posted: 1/11/2002 7:08:36 AM EDT
[#43]
Would an AR-180B in .308 made to use FAL mags be any cheaper (or otherwise better) than an FAL?
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Posted: 1/11/2002 11:24:07 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Would an AR-180B in .308 made to use FAL mags be any cheaper (or otherwise better) than an FAL? |
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Posted: 1/11/2002 11:55:49 AM EDT
[#45]
i've always been interested in the major grip against the ar15 (that its dirty and can cause jams). i've fired a friends mutt ar15 (bushy lower, who knows what upper reciever and colt chrome lined lightweight barrel). i've never noticed and failures to feed or jam. he takes care of his guns, but doesn't break it down and clean it every time he shoots.
i'm sure that in theory ar 180 and ak's are "cleaner shooting"--but i don't think that always translates into a more reliable firearm. as for buying a 180...i'm waiting for a run in green (back way ago someone on the armaliote forum mentioned they might do a run in a green reciever and furniture). also i'd be much happier with a chrom lined bore. i would love to see an ar 160B...btu i'm not going to be holding my breath. sloth |
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Posted: 1/11/2002 12:46:58 PM EDT
[#46]
i'm sure that in theory ar 180 and ak's are "cleaner shooting"- It's a darn good theory, with plenty of evidence to back it up. Shoot 500 rds out of an AR-15, then 500rds out of a gun with a piston (Daewoo, AK, AR-180). The piston driven guns will be cleaner on the inside. -but i don't think that always translates into a more reliable firearm. It may not in most cases. What it does translate into is a far easier weapon to clean and maintain. It doesn't take much to clean an AR-15. But it will always take less to clean an AR-180, given the exact same amount of use. It's not a hard logical leap to make. If you don't blow hot exhaust gasses directly into the action, you don't need to clen them up. Really the "dirty action" problems usually stem from more extended use than most of our guns see. I can make a statement that my AR-15s are just as reliable as my AKs. It's the truth. I shoot them, I clean them. I don't have failures. The difference would be if I were not able to clean the rifle or clean it properly over a few days of hard use. Once that point is reached, the piston operated gun tends to be more reliable because all that dirt in the AR-15's action, that's been attracting water, and hardening into carbon deposits on important working parts just isn't there. In the Army I've seen M16A1s dirtier than most non-service folks can imagine and still run. They are a good weapon. I would still beleive that piston gun would be more reliable though, if only from the standpoint that it would be completely cleaned more often simply because it's faster and easier to do. For most civillian shooters, it translates into a non-problem. It does translate into a nice feature on a civillian rifle, which is that it's a snap to clean the thing. i would love to see an ar 160B...btu i'm not going to be holding my breath. sloth Yeah, one that would take FAL mags! That would be cool! Ross |
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Posted: 1/11/2002 12:59:40 PM EDT
[#47]
Not knowing much about the 180B, this thread is quite informative.
Let's hope it is everything we want it to be. Wouldn't that be different. |
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Posted: 1/11/2002 1:47:48 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: Not knowing much about the 180B, this thread is quite informative. Let's hope it is everything we want it to be. Wouldn't that be different. W. G., actually you're right with the rest of us on the AR-180B - none (that I'm aware of) know much. At least the early reviews are positive but until a hundred or so are in the field for a while the finals won't be in. |
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Posted: 1/11/2002 1:55:22 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: Quoted: Would an AR-180B in .308 made to use FAL mags be any cheaper (or otherwise better) than an FAL? L.G., hadn't thought of things exactly that way but an AR16B would/could be pretty close ! [smoke] |
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Posted: 1/11/2002 1:58:40 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: Anybody know when these will be available? marvl, I posted earlier today regarding availability but in case you missed it shipping on the AR-180B will begin about 2/15/02. (Maybe a "few" rifles will get out a little earlier.) [smoke] |
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