You have to check out this sweet computer! 15" LCD display, 700-800MHz of Pentium Crushing G4 power, 128-256MB RAM, 60GB HD, 100MHz bus, some equipped with SuperDrive(CD-RW and DVD-RW). And it looks AWESOME!
The iBook got a bigger screen, upped to 14".
Mac OS X is now the default boot on all Macs.

Check out the new iMac:
[img]http://a1424.g.akamai.net/7/1424/51/b926358f23e275/www.apple.com/imac/images/indextop01072002.jpg[/img]
[url]http://www.apple.com/imac[/url]

Man I LOVE Apple! And they are the most successful tech companies of 2001. All the PeeCee crap companies are doing poorly, while Apple is rocking. Check out this article:

[url]http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,49508,00.html[/url]

Remeber though, the Pentium is a totally different architecture than the G4 (CISC v. RISC), so comparing an 800MHz Pentium to an 800MHz G4 using the clock speed alone is not sufficient.  Benchmarking software is run on each to give an accurate comparison.  In other words, MHz has little to do when comparing two systems of drastically different architectures.

Brouhaha,
The G4 is way more efficient, ever done video editing on a P4?  Lags way too much unless you have about a $1500 video card.  The G4 is using a Radeon with 32MBs and kicking butt.

Not everything is about MHz, and OS X is Linux based [:D]

Mac's downfall is their pricing and the fact that the software companies don't put out that much for them.

You are right about Virtual PC, but what do you expect from trying to run a MicroSuck program on an Apple?

Understood about razing lib76.


Oh, at work we call them Isores or Icraps.  Get a G4 tower

[img]http://www.funnyspoofs.com/spoofs/mactrash.jpg[/img]

Sorry, when you fix them cause people trash them, you get a little anti-mac. Another for your viewing pleasure.

[img]http://www.funnyspoofs.com/spoofs/imacsit.jpg[/img]

> ...and OS X is Linux based
>

No, it's not.  Linux and OS X share a common heritage in Unix land, but OS X is based on Berkeley Unix (BSD) and Linux is based on a kernel written by Linus Torvalds so it's really a unix compatible beast of it's own.

- CD

I was wrong.

Ok, but most people don't remember much of the different Unixes.

Sorry, will go into detail next time.

I was just going to ask how many thousands the new Mac costs. Also, although I know they are far superior for graphics and art and stuff, what about gaming? A good friend of mine is a graphics artist and has a room full of Macs. Even though he is a diehard Mac fan, he keeps a PC around for gaming. And as an engineer, I haven't found all that much good software for my needs on the Mac platform that would justify the high cost of the unit and its peripherals.

That is the whole name of the game - software availability.  My child's kindergarden class has a 3 Macs that the teacher bought with some grant money. But the teacher told me "for every one title of ed software for the Mac, there is at least 10 for the Windows/Intel machines." Apple is pretty much ceased to be a driving force in the desktop market place.

apple really shot themselfs in the foot when they went for the school market instead of the busniess market. cuz when it it comes down to it u buy what u use at work not what your kid uses at school. also almost all the schools are/have switched over to pcs

It would seem that darn near every program for the mac is a cleverly disguised paint program.

[:o)]

At least they make colorful targets.

I don't care how fast or great it is, it is still a POS Apple!!  Give me $400 and I can build you a really good PC.  Give me a $1000 and I will blow your mind away!!!

Sgtar15

"Pentium crushing"... laugh.  Why do all the Mac guys always try this line?  I just read an article on Cnet about the fastest machines of 2002 and guess what?  The Mac wasn't mentioned.  All they did was talk about Intel's new 2.2 gig and AMD's 2000 chips.  They went on and on about Intel's new .13 micron technology and how it makes their chips the fastest, smallest and most powerful chips ever designed by man.  What did they say about Mac?  Oh that's right... nothing.  Not even an honorable mention.  :)

The most successful thing about Mac is that they've got a following of about 1000 deathly loyal users who refuse to accept their fate as a "has been" PC maker.  Sure, they claim they're turning a profit (I've seen some creative book keeping in my time) but that's not much of an accomplishment given their stature as a "niche" PC maker.

What are they down to now?  3% market share?  The stats on our webservers here at work show 1.3% of the machines accessing our client sites are Mac's.  Not real impressive.  Some of these sites are million impressions a month public internet sites...

They are nice machines... and they've come a long way with Windows emulation... but in emulation mode they aren't 100% compatible with all Windows software and no matter what Mac loyalists say, they aren't as fast as a x86 based Windows system either.  The software available for the Mac is pathetic at best compared to its Windows counterpart.

I think they are pretty, and yes, they are well made... but where the rubber hits the pavement they are has beens.

I can vouch for this, over the past three years the vocational school I work at has replaced all the mac labs with pc’s. Plus put at least 4 in every classroom and ten labs together with 30 plus units per lab. Not to mention a computer for all the support and services staff.

Apple couldn’t get us to take any of their products to use other then for teaching how to fix them.

The MAC is doomed to fade away.  It's as simple as this:  

1.  Hardly anyone owns one.

2.  If nobody owns them, you can't pirate software to run on them.

3.  Nobody can afford to own a computer if they
   have to buy legit software for it.

[img]http://community.webshots.com/storage/1/v2/9/42/26/20294226jAdXYICjjE_ph.jpg[/img]

I guess that's why Apple has 90% of the marketshare?   And my company was still profitable, even when other PC companies are losing their asses!  

Whenever you review benchmarks to compare computers, an old adage is appropriate... "figures never lie and liers never stop figuring". The stories I could tell you guys about product marketing and benchmarking if I wasn't under a NDA.

My 400MHZ G4 is faster at proceser intensive applications (such as Photoshop) than a 900 MHZ Pentium box.
Mac's OWN desktop publishing, the movie industry (ILM, Pixar, and a whole host of othe studios use nothing but Mac's), the music industry. The PC (both of them) owns the buisness work place.
Apple designs all of it's own hardware and OS.
Apple has more of a market share than ANY OTHER SINGLE computer company.

[smoke]

a 800 mhz mac may not sound fast compared to a gig plus pc but the software is a lot more efficant then a PC

Very true, this one of many screw-ups by Steve Jobs.  What really kills me is this man damn near destroyed Mac (after giving it birth) with his idiotic business concepts and practices.

Steve put Mac at a SERIOUS disadvantage in the very beginning (before the school market thing) by keeping the architecture closed.  They wouldn't allow clones OR peripherals to be manufactured by ANYONE except Mac, therefore there was no competition to drive prices down like in the PC market.  This is what caused the PC to explode in popularity while Macs suffered under Steve's insane policies.  When Steve finally left some of the corporate big-wigs pulled their collective heads out and realized where they dropped the ball and licensed a few companies to make clones.  Well, this didn't compensate for the devastating results of Steve's previous leadership and the company still floundered.  Mostly because the PC had already gobbled up 90% of the market share and they were fighting a HUGE uphill battle.  When Mac was in its death throws again and on the brink of collapse what did they do?  BRING BACK STEVE JOBS!!!!  Dear God the leadership at Mac is completely looney.  Steve promptly jerked all the licenses of the clone makers and slammed the doors shut once again.

And that's why Mac is a has-been PC maker and always will be.  

It's true, they had the superior OS, they had the superior chip architecture (RISC based vs. x86 of the PC) and they had an early jump on the market.  But Steve and his merry band of old school business idiots lost it to Gates and IBM right out of the gate.

I won't support such idiocy with my dollars regardless of how innovative they may become in the future.  As it stands Mac is always playing catch-up with PC's and never innovates squat.  Until they do become innovators they will continue to loose market share... regardless where their bean counters claim their profits are.

Actually, I think Apple shot themselves in the foot both by pushing education AND being a monopoly Early on.

IN the beginning, you had to by Mac shit from Apple. They were the only ones allowed to sell parts and such. Meanwhile, every Tom Dick and Harry were developing PC hardware and software. You could get a PC hard drive from bunches of manufaturers. A Mac Hard drive... had to get it from Apple, and pay through the nose because they were the only game in town. In the late 80s when they finally let other companies make stuff for macs, it was far too late. It was not always pleasent for us PC users then. A lot of sub-standard devices out there. But, it was worth it to have a choice.


Aviator  [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]

Been busy, just got back to this topic.

Looks like there is some(a lot of?) misunderstanding about the Mac. Let's see if I can't clear that up.


The pricing isn't that bad. You get what you pay for. And there is a TON of software out there. MS Office, Photoshop, tons of games, anything and everything you want.


Actually, they are cheap for what you get: a high quality, easy to use, long lasting, low maintainance machine. And there ARE many, many, many programs for the Mac. What programs would you want? bet the mac has them.


You can get a good mac for $799. A better one for $1400, and a great one for $2500 or so. There are tons of Mac games out there: Quake III, Unreal Tournament, Deus Ex, Max Payne, Star Trek Elite Force, Return to Caslte Wolfestein, and many more. The high cost of the unit is actually pretty good, because you get what you pay for. For example: what PC manufacter is offering a LCD screen AND a DVD writer with the computer(and no need to get anything else: sound card, video card, monitor, etc) for $1800? noone that I know of. And there isn't a high cost of peripherals. The ones that work on the PC, work on the Mac, if they are USB(the industry stand now because of the Mac). There is no price difference in peripherals for Mac and PC.


Can you get a PC with a LCD screen, a DVD writer,  that comes with the video card, sound card, keyboard, mouse, and the exellent MacOS for $1800? I doubt it.
And you don't care if a Mac is better, but that it is cheaper? And it really isn't that cheaper either. Plus, you'd have to run Windows, and for me, that is worth the price difference.

There is a LOT more than 1000 loyal users. There is a least 25 million Mac users, if not more. And what to you mean the "claim". Have you done an indepth analysis of there accounting books? And Apple isn't no has been. They are the one innovating while PC's are stagnating.


Market share is not a good measure of whether the Mac is a better computer or not.


Who cares about Windows emulation? Native Mac programs run and perform just as good as their PC counter parts, if not better. Also, there is a TON of Mac software. Comparing it to the amount of PC software is a falacy, because there are more PCs than Macs. But that doesn't mean that there isn't good and plentify software for the Mac, because there is. Almost anything you want to do on a PC you can do on a Mac, and better and more effiently.


Has beens? I don't know where that comes from. See my innovation comment above.


First, its Mac, not MAC. Second, how can the Mac be doomed to fade away if Apple, their maker, is pulling a profit, unlike most PC companies?


I wouldn't call 25 million Mac users hardly anyone.


I don't see what pirating software has to do with if a Mac is good or not. But there is a big pirate industry for the Mac, you just have to know where to look


Well, a lot of PC users seem to manage just fine without pirating, and so do Mac users. In fact, I manage to get by without pirating.

Macs are playing catchup to the PC? Do you really believe that? Who started the GUI revolution? Who started the exellent user experience? Who brought USB into the forefront of computing experience? Who create Firewire(IEEE1394)? Who created Airport? Who has a superior Operating System? Who brought on the DVD creation technology? The answer: Apple. And who copies all of that? PC makers and Microsoft(just look at Windows. A blantant ripoff of the MacOS)

I can't wait to play with OS X Server.....

The only reason Mac prices are resonable now is because they HAVE to be. Back when they thought they were guaranteed a percentage of the market, due to their OS, their prices were ridiculous.
As far as current market share, I can only state what I see. My employer has over 50,000 workstations in use world wide. Not ONE is a Mac.

I've been using Macs for about 10 years or so. I still have a 16-year old Mac SE in my apartment. I have an iBook for most of the computer stuff I have to do. Many PC users say that there isn't any software. This probably comes from going to their favorite computer store and seeing like 2 mac programs there. There are tons of mac programs out there, most of them are in catalogs. Almost anything you want to do, you can do on a Mac. There is lots of pirated software out there too, if you know where to look. Not that it matters much. And of course, I would never do such a thing. There aren't quite as many games, but it isn't really a big deal unless you are obsessed with having all of the latest and greatest games. Most of the good games are on the Mac, more then enough to take up all of your free time. Besides, almost any console system is better than Macs and PCs when it comes to gaming.

Despite all of this, I recently had to get a PC. I'm an engineering major, and we have to run certain engineering programs that are Windows only. This is one of the areas where the Mac really lags behind. So I now have a Windows XP laptop. I'm not really impressed. The networking is a clumsy mess compared to the Mac. Navigating the hard drive and moving files around feels awkward. Then there's the security problems. Microsoft releases their "most secure OS ever", and some hackers promptly find a way to take total control over the computer through the internet. Seems like every couple of months there's a new Windows virus that takes advantage of the holes in Microsoft software. So I still use the Mac to do all of the important stuff.

It seems pretty obvious to me that the entire PC industry is copying Apple. Remember a few years ago when they introduced the iMac with no floppy drive or "legacy" connectors? All the PC people said it would flop. It didn't. Now, PC manufacturers are making computers without floppy drives and "legacy" connectors. The iMac started the USB revolution. Before the iMac, most PCs had USB, but there weren't many USB accessories. Until the iMac came out with only USB. Microsoft is now including software to make it easy for novice users to make their own movies, just like Apple's iMovie. The list goes on and on.

And I think the new iMac is pretty cool, though Apple overdid the hype a little.

[uzi]

New Slogan "iMAC...Half the applications for twice the money!!!!!!"

Nope. Back when Steve Jobs regained control of Apple, Microsoft bought 150 Million of [b]non-voting[/b] stock to show their support of Apple. They do not own a significant portion of Apple. Infact, one of their arguments in their (failed) attempt to prove that they were not a monopoly was that Apple was an independent competitor. Furthermore, the government would never allow Microsoft to buy Apple since the two of them together make up almost the entire operating system market.

YAWN...