[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Question for coffee gurus (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 2/21/2009 1:20:53 PM EDT
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How big a difference does the coffee maker make? Is a $300 Cuisinart really that much better than a $29 Mr. Coffee? We are outfitting the kitchen in our new home and are looking for a 4-6 cup coffee maker that makes a good cup of coffee without breaking the bank.
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Focus on the quality of the actual coffee. Forget about the coffee maker.
In time you will be as sophisticated as these reviewers: http://www.coffeereview.com/allreviews.cfm Sweet fruit-punch aroma with notes of butter, flowers, wine and cedar. Lush fruit-toned acidity, silky body and complex flavors of guava nectar, honey, vanilla, berries and cherry-like chocolate. Fruit-saturated finish, with flavor hints outlasting a very slight astringency.
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The more expensive makers will (generally speaking) have more heating power, and so will be able to get the water hotter than most of the cheaper versions. Hotter water is more effective at getting the flavor out of the coffee grounds.
My wife and I have gone "old school" - a percolator. It makes great, flavorful, HOT coffee. |
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As others mention, as far as coffee makers go, the temperature of the water is critical - 205F is about optimal. Press pot, vac pots, pour-overs all allow you to control the temperature externally, and so are very cheap solutions to that "problem" As far as drip makers go, IIRC the Capresso ST500 gets high marks at a (relatively) low price point for a "premium" maker. If you aren't going to drink it all right away, a thermal carafe is superior to a heated base. I use a press pot, and honestly, the time requirement isn't significantly more than a drip maker.
But that is only one part of the equation. For optimal results, you really should be using fresh roasted beans, generally less than two week since roasting. They should be ground using a burr grinder within 2 minutes of brewing. A burr grinder will give you a consistent grind (the "size" of the grind on the whirly-blades is determined by how long you grind for, and each ground is irregular), and as soon as you grind the coffee, many of the oils, which give you the flavor start to evaporate. So.... what coffee maker you use isn't going to make much difference if you are using stale, pre-ground Folgers. |
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I'm not a guru, I drink Folger's.
It IS true that it matters what type of coffee maker you have. A $100 Bunn makes 10 cups* in about 3 minutes. A $30 Mr. Coffee does the 10 cups in 10 minutes or sometimes longer. This thread inspired me to brew up a pot, I started it before I clicked the "reply" button. It should be done real soon. *10 cups apparently means 5 regular sized mugs |
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french press + burr grinder for the win This, We destroy coffee by cooking it. This. If not a french press then a coffee maker with an insulated carafe. Having a hot-plate kind of coffee maker just kills coffee. To sum it up, good dark-roasted coffee, very hot water produced in a short time and don't continue to cook the stuff. Oh, the beans - You want the freshest, oily whole beans you can find. |
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the temperature of the water is critical - 205F is about optimal
Nope. 195 degrees +/- 5 degrees. At 205F, you extract to many bitters and acid. Coffee is 98% water. It all starts with the water. The coarseness of the grind, the temperature of the water, the quality of the water and how long that water is in contact with the specific grind determines what kind of extraction you get. Play around with what flavor you like the best. |
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I destroy cheaper coffee pots about once a year.
I ended up with one of these for Christmas, but mine has the stainless steel carafe, and it is the nicest coffee pot I have owned yet. 
This thing even tells you when it needs cleaned, and, you push a button, and it freaking cleans itself! 
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| Gah! You guys recommending percolators are nuts. Percolators are the worst thing to ever happen to coffee. Think about it: do you reuse yesterday's grounds for today's pot? That's what percs do. They keep washing the same old grounds with the same old coffee over and over until it's way past the good coffee flavors and getting out the bitter unwanted flavors. Even a paper filtered drip is better than that. Ugh... |
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As others mention, as far as coffee makers go, the temperature of the water is critical - 205F is about optimal. Press pot, vac pots, pour-overs all allow you to control the temperature externally, and so are very cheap solutions to that "problem" As far as drip makers go, IIRC the Capresso ST500 gets high marks at a (relatively) low price point for a "premium" maker. If you aren't going to drink it all right away, a thermal carafe is superior to a heated base. I use a press pot, and honestly, the time requirement isn't significantly more than a drip maker. But that is only one part of the equation. For optimal results, you really should be using fresh roasted beans, generally less than two week since roasting. They should be ground using a burr grinder within 2 minutes of brewing. A burr grinder will give you a consistent grind (the "size" of the grind on the whirly-blades is determined by how long you grind for, and each ground is irregular), and as soon as you grind the coffee, many of the oils, which give you the flavor start to evaporate. So.... what coffee maker you use isn't going to make much difference if you are using stale, pre-ground Folgers. this ^ ... as stated, it's the bean that count ... i hunt down local roasters, and brew shops where ever i am ... you can check out these folks - greencastle coffee roasters, in greencastle PA |
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I am not much of a coffee person, however, my G/F is a coffee guru. She says a perculator is the best by far. If that's the case, then your G/F is a coffee moron. Percolators are absolute and complete shit. Temperature control is everything when you're dealing with drip/french press. Vacpots are very good, and the MOCCAMASTER is one of the absolute best drip machines available. The problem with french press is twofold: 1) the oils in coffee beans are in your french press coffee and it raises cholesterol because the metal mesh filters out only coffee grouds, and 2) some don't like the sediment in french press coffee. Some people like the flavor of french press, some don't. It's subjective, so try it and see for yourself. Freshly roasted beans are a must also, so forget about any of the shitty poseur beans you'll find at a supermarket. Those are not fresh. I would experiment with single origin beans (not blends) from Stumptown, Intelligentsia, 49th Parallel or another specialty roaster. Different growing regions have different flavor profiles and they taste markedly different. Make sure you have a burr grinder that is powerful enough to grind the coffee without warming it up. The KitchenAid pro-line burr grinder has gotten favorable reviews and is not very expensive compared to other quality grinders. Smaller and/or less powerful burr grinders can heat up the grounds which will affect how the brewed coffee tastes. |
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If you want coffee as good as you can get out, bite the bullet and buy a Bunn commercial coffee maker and Bunn commercial grinder. Then either order Dunkin Donut beans in the 5 lb. bag or whatever your favorite is. French press is good but a pain in the ass. How is French Press a pain in the ass? Heat water, grind coffee, mix, wait between 3 - 4 minutes, press, poor, drink. Seems easy to me. 
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french press + burr grinder for the win This, We destroy coffee by cooking it. This. If not a french press then a coffee maker with an insulated carafe. Having a hot-plate kind of coffee maker just kills coffee. To sum it up, good dark-roasted coffee, very hot water produced in a short time and don't continue to cook the stuff. Oh, the beans - You want the freshest, oily whole beans you can find. That's a matter of preference, because I can't stand over-roasted beans. Most roasters roast this dark because they are trying to emulate Starbucks (which is shit coffee) or they are trying to mask the low quality of the bean. Full City roast (considered medium) is the darkest I like because you can taste the flavors, not the roast. Darker roasts are good for some things, but a dark roast can mask the flavor of the bean. See my above post for links to quality specialty coffee roasters. traderpats, you should know this! Living in OR, while something I normally regret, allows me to drink the best espresso every day at Albina Press. |
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If you want coffee as good as you can get out, bite the bullet and buy a Bunn commercial coffee maker and Bunn commercial grinder. Then either order Dunkin Donut beans in the 5 lb. bag or whatever your favorite is. French press is good but a pain in the ass. if you drink a ton of coffee, Bunn is pure win |
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If you just like having a carafe of good, hot coffee on your desk, consider a burr grinder and the Nissan thermal french press. It's no different than any other french press but it's also a thermal carafe as well. Grind your coffee, put it in the press, nuke your water to 200 degress, pour it in, press, and you're good to go for 45 ounces of great and hot coffee. The thing is also about indestructible. Review below http://www1.epinions.com/reviews/Thermos_Nissan_NCI1000_Coffee_Maker |
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the temperature of the water is critical - 205F is about optimal
Nope. 195 degrees +/- 5 degrees. At 205F, you extract to many bitters and acid. Coffee is 98% water. It all starts with the water. The coarseness of the grind, the temperature of the water, the quality of the water and how long that water is in contact with the specific grind determines what kind of extraction you get. Play around with what flavor you like the best. Best way I found was Alton Brown's method. Once water is boiling remove pot from the heat and wait ten seconds before pouring. Comes out perfect every time, |
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Yes, the coffe maker matters.
French press makes really good coffee, but the hassle factor is high. We bought one of those Cuisinart grind and brew things about 5 years ago and were pretty happy with the coffee. It was kind of a PITA to clean. The grinder had to be removed and washed/dried after every use. One of the things we liked about it was that it had a thermal carafe which keeps the coffee from getting that nasty burt flavor from sitting on a hot plate. Oddly, the coffee quality had a high degree of variability out of the Cuisinart. Some pots would be excellent, and others would be pretty bad with the majority being somewhere in the middle. Eventually (about 4 months ago) the Cuisinart sprung a water leak and when we finally couldn't stand it any more (about 2 months ago) it got tossed, we replaced it with an inexpensive Krups. The coffee from the Krups was so bitter that my wife basically stopped drinking coffee and I stated adding milk to mine. We were using the same brand of beans that we had been using before and grinding it by hand in one of those whirly blade grinders (similar to the grinder in the Cuisinart). Finally I decided enough was enough and I am currently on a quest for a good pot of coffee with minimum hassle. Two requirements were no elaborate cleaning routines, and a thermal carafe. The latter because I usually make the coffee about an hour before the wife gets up and the hot plate will ruin the coffe in that time. I found a Bunn brand coffee pot at Target with a thermal carafe. It claimed to brew at the optimum temperature of 200-205 F. Well I bought it and tested it out. I let it brew a pot through an empty filter basket and then used a digital thermometer to measure the water in the pot. The temp of the water in the pot was 201 F, so presumably the temp of the water as dispensed was slightly higher. It also claimed to brew in 3-5 minutes for optimum flavor, in fact, it brews in about 2 minutes. Using the same beans and the same grinder, the coffee was noticeably better out of the Bunn compared to the Krups. There was substantially less bitterness and the aroma was more pleasant. However it still wasn't quite good enough. The whirly grinder was half pulverizing the coffee and combined with the ultra fast water flow, the filter was prone to overflowing with the result of grounds getting in my coffee cup. I did some research and decided that some kind of a burr grinder was in order. I got a Kitchen Aid burr grinder, which is a nice looking grinder and it seems to work really well with evenly sized grounds and very little dust. Nice looking was a significant factor as it enables me to leave the grinder on the counter top rather than stick it in a cupboard after every use (minimum hassle). The combination is working really well for me. The coffee is even smoother tasting with the better grinder and the water level in the filter seems to peak about 1/2" below the top so no more grounds in my cup. The only downside is that now my wife is drinking more coffee than ever and I sometimes have to make a second pot. |
Look at it this way with the commercial Bunn. You put a filter in the basket. Stick the basket under the grinder (holds 5lbs.). Push a button to perfectly burr grind exactly the right amount of coffee (adjustable). Push a button on the coffee maker and 3-4 minutes later 10 cups of perfectly brewed coffee in a carafe. Dump the grounds down the disposal and you're ready to go again. 
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| I've owned numerous coffee machines ranging from $15 - $150 and my job has a $400 espresso machine. For Christmas my bought me this Starbucks Coffee Press , it came in a gift box with Sumatra Extra Bold coffee. This is by far the best coffee I have ever had that's made at home. |
| I agree with most of the comments about coffee quality being the key component. I have tried all sort of coffee and have settled on Costco's Sumatra. Less than $10.00 for 2.5 lbs. and it is roasted onsite. The Sumatra is a rich, full bodied coffee. Also, don't skimp on the amount of coffee you use when you make a pot. I think some folks use too little coffee when they brew and wind up with bitter coffee. |
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I am not much of a coffee person, however, my G/F is a coffee guru. She says a perculator is the best by far. And she would be wrong. A perculator is the worst method of brewing coffee. All it does is wash the bitter compounds out of the beans. For a cup of joe, a french press or clover machine is the best method but you must ave a quality burr grinder set to the right grind. For a premium expresso, you need a quality burr grinder and a commercial quality machine such as Rancillo but it takes practice. Another option is a Nespresso machine which uses pods. www.wholelattelove.com is a great source of information . Here is my setup http://www.wholelattelove.com/Rancilio/silviabar.cfm |
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If you want coffee as good as you can get out, bite the bullet and buy a Bunn commercial coffee maker and Bunn commercial grinder. Then either order Dunkin Donut beans in the 5 lb. bag or whatever your favorite is. French press is good but a pain in the ass. if you drink a ton of coffee, Bunn is pure win Having 12 cups of coffee ready in 5 minutes is great. |