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in before you get told it is more complicated than this...

punish people employing them - illegal immigration largely goes away... it is a big part of it. Of course ther are a lot of them who will come for free stuff anyway

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I'll say it again:  build a canal across the southern border.  benefits to farm irrigation in otherwise arid areas, container ports and jobs on both sides of the border.  if you put jobs on the south side of the border, and prosecute employers in the US violating visa and employment laws, then we are controlling the supply and demand of immigration crime.

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Wait.......Fences are bullshit? How about we build a big fucking wall. So far as I know, Mexicans don't have some magical power that allows them to walk through concrete.
Thats one answer at least.

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3)  Fences are bullshit.  In Florida we have seen 90 miles of ocean fail to prevent a complete demographic change in Dade county, so I don’t think a 20’ concrete barrier is going to do squat.  Politicians like to say that they are “securing” our borders, but the reality is that they are really “securing” construction contracts for their states and a false sense of security for everyone else.  The idea that a fence that protects 5% of our total border would somehow prevent terrorists from bringing weapons here is even more absurd.

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Wait.......Fences are bullshit? How about we build a big fucking wall. So far as I know, Mexicans don't have some magical power that allows them to walk through concrete.
Thats one answer at least.

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Cubans are legal refugees, and welcome....

But you are right about the fence...

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1) People cross the border primarily for one thing - jobs and opportunity.  Sure, some intend to commit crimes, but most are only here to work and send money home.  Yes, entering and working illegally is a crime, but for most it is the only crime they will commit on US soil.

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You don't seem to realize that every second that they are here is another second of committing a crime. Then, if they so much as use a single resource of ours, it is again a crime (fraud) and if the fake an identity it is a crime, and if they work under the table it is a crime.

Illegals are criminals, through and through. Their intent is to break the law.

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Oddly, they are only welcome if their feet touch land.  If they get caught in the water, they go home.

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You don't seem to realize that every second that they are here is another second of committing a crime. Then, if they so much as use a single resource of ours, it is again a crime (fraud) and if the fake an identity it is a crime, and if they work under the table it is a crime.

Illegals are criminals, through and through. Their intent is to break the law.

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2 things:

1-dramatically reduce welfare to those that really, really need it.  Ghetto rats will start doing the jobs that they should've been doing in the first place, and by doing so take away jobs from illegals.

2. Gun towers.  Lots and lots of gun towers.

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I don't want to get into semantics.  What I mean is that they aren't commiting crimes other than those directly related to their immigration status.

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Fail, if you want to improve things you have to increase the traffic between Mexico and the US.

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He won't understand the difference between a real crime and some violation of a rule. They are one and the same to him which is whacked out.

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I don't want to get into semantics.  What I mean is that they aren't commiting crimes other than those directly related to their immigration status.

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It is criminal. Jumping the boarder is illegal. Taking money under the table is ILLEGAL. Using a false ID is ILLEGAL. recieving public aid when being an illegal is ILLEGAL. Driving without insurance or a D/L is ILLEGAL.

What the fuck do you not understand about ILLEGAL immigration?

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Hiring illegal immigrants is illegal too.  Is any of your outrage directed there?You bet. People who employ illegals should have the book thrown at them.

As to the semantics, I am certain that you know what I mean.  They did not come here to rob, murder, shoplift, drive drunk, rape, pillage, fold spindle and mutilate, etc.  Demonizing the immigrants exclusively has the effect of taking attention off of the industries that get fat off of the cheap labor.

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The illegal immigration debate in the US is so far off the rails its ridiculous.  It has been so thoroughly hijacked by anyone and everyone with an agenda, that it is nearly impossible expect any real solutions from anyone in power.  

Here is how I see things:

1) People cross the border primarily for one thing - jobs and opportunity.  Sure, some intend to commit crimes, but most are only here to work and send money home.  Yes, entering and working illegally is a crime, but for most it is the only crime they will commit on US soil.  In a way I admire the courage of a man who would make the journey across a desert to take a menial job, live in squalor with others like him, and send everything home for his wife and family.  

2) People cross the border because there are jobs available.  The jobs are available in part because entire industries have been allowed to operate with an illegal immigrant labor force.  Agriculture, construction, meat packing, and hospitality come to mind, to name a few.  There has only been token enforcement in those industries because of their political connections.

3)  Fences are bullshit.  In Florida we have seen 90 miles of ocean fail to prevent a complete demographic change in Dade county, so I don’t think a 20’ concrete barrier is going to do squat.  Politicians like to say that they are “securing” our borders, but the reality is that they are really “securing” construction contracts for their states and a false sense of security for everyone else.  The idea that a fence that protects 5% of our total border would somehow prevent terrorists from bringing weapons here is even more absurd. Border guards with m4s, and ar15s would fix that problem. Along with uavs.
4)  The premise that the jobs illegal immigrants do are those that Americans are unwilling to do is false.  They are filling jobs that used to be done by Americans, before the employers figured out that they could get it done cheaper and get away with it.  It is an end run around workplace protections, fair wages, safe conditions, and a direct attack on the middle class.  Every job lost to an illegal has the effect of whittling away workplace standards and wages for all of us.

5)  If illegal immigrants couldn’t get jobs, most would either go home or not come in the first place.  Evidence of this is seen all over Mexico at the moment, as workers are going home in droves due to the recession.  If employers were assured that they would be visited by Immigration frequently, and that the fines would be huge for each illegal found, the jobs would shift back to Americans.  No such action has been taken by the US government.

6)  The Mexican economy absolutely relies on US dollars sent home by illegal immigrants, as presumably do the economies in central America as well.  Those governments exert heavy pressure on the US government to maintain the status quo.  Maybe the status quo is better than destabilized governments south of our border – I don’t know – but I bet that this economy will help us find out.

I don’t hate illegal immigrants, and I don’t attribute our nation’s ills directly upon them.  That being said, they jobs they fill should be filled by AMERICANS or legal immigrants.  Our government has done NOTHING to achieve that goal.  The only answer I can see is workplace enforcement, and the fact that there is virtually none indicates that there is no real interest in Washington in solving the immigration problem.

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I'll say it again: build a canal across the southern border. benefits to farm irrigation in otherwise arid areas, container ports and jobs on both sides of the border. if you put jobs on the south side of the border, and prosecute employers in the US violating visa and employment laws, then we are controlling the supply and demand of immigration crime.

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The illegal immigration debate in the US is so far off the rails its ridiculous.  It has been so thoroughly hijacked by anyone and everyone with an agenda, that it is nearly impossible expect any real solutions from anyone in power.  

Here is how I see things:

1) People cross the border primarily for one thing - jobs and opportunity.  Sure, some intend to commit crimes, but most are only here to work and send money home.  Yes, entering and working illegally is a crime, but for most it is the only crime they will commit on US soil. In a way I admire the courage of a man who would make the journey across a desert to take a menial job, live in squalor with others like him, and send everything home for his wife and family.  

2) People cross the border because there are jobs available.  The jobs are available in part because entire industries have been allowed to operate with an illegal immigrant labor force.  Agriculture, construction, meat packing, and hospitality come to mind, to name a few.  There has only been token enforcement in those industries because of their political connections.

3)  Fences are bullshit.  In Florida we have seen 90 miles of ocean fail to prevent a complete demographic change in Dade county, so I don’t think a 20’ concrete barrier is going to do squat.  Politicians like to say that they are “securing” our borders, but the reality is that they are really “securing” construction contracts for their states and a false sense of security for everyone else.  The idea that a fence that protects 5% of our total border would somehow prevent terrorists from bringing weapons here is even more absurd.

4)  The premise that the jobs illegal immigrants do are those that Americans are unwilling to do is false.  They are filling jobs that used to be done by Americans, before the employers figured out that they could get it done cheaper and get away with it.  It is an end run around workplace protections, fair wages, safe conditions, and a direct attack on the middle class.  Every job lost to an illegal has the effect of whittling away workplace standards and wages for all of us.

5)  If illegal immigrants couldn’t get jobs, most would either go home or not come in the first place.  Evidence of this is seen all over Mexico at the moment, as workers are going home in droves due to the recession.  If employers were assured that they would be visited by Immigration frequently, and that the fines would be huge for each illegal found, the jobs would shift back to Americans.  No such action has been taken by the US government.

6)  The Mexican economy absolutely relies on US dollars sent home by illegal immigrants, as presumably do the economies in central America as well.  Those governments exert heavy pressure on the US government to maintain the status quo.  Maybe the status quo is better than destabilized governments south of our border – I don’t know – but I bet that this economy will help us find out.

I don’t hate illegal immigrants, and I don’t attribute our nation’s ills directly upon them.  That being said, they jobs they fill should be filled by AMERICANS or legal immigrants.  Our government has done NOTHING to achieve that goal.  The only answer I can see is workplace enforcement, and the fact that there is virtually none indicates that there is no real interest in Washington in solving the immigration problem.

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I live in a city that is a "safe Haven" ....there are a lot of Chiuhuahua (sp?) license plates on vehicles....most without insurance and are crappy drivers....lots of DUI's....I don't want to generalize but this is stuff that I witness every day....I have friends from Mexico and I know that they aren't all bad.  I have also been kicked in the face by an illegal immagrant who has 6 typed pages of criminal history in 4 states...he is a convicted felony and a child molester...so I have seen both ends.  I have a friend who is a plumber and he tells me that no matter how easy the US makes it for illegals to become legal most wont...it is to their benifit ...they don't pay taxes...the aren't held responsible for anything bad they do....they do get assistance from the US government. ( my wife used to work in the welfare officer and she witnessed illegals drive up in a Lincoln Navigator, Cadillac, Dually, etc. and get food stamps as well as financial assistance (money).  I have been into several homes of illegals and they don't "live in squaller" the big screen plasma tvs etc.
They use the emergency room as a primary care doctor and tax payers are the ones paying....this clogs up the ER's so it can get difficult when real emergencies occur.
The US (taxpayers) are puting a large amount of money into supporting these people and these people only contribute about 1/10 of what they cost.
Oh...and I would say that 70-80% of the crime in my city is caused by illegals.
Again I don't want to generalize but this is what I see in my city...in a border state.

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I hear you, and I don't necessarily disagree.  My issue is that illegals are a symptom of a larger problem.  Employers who are allowed to hire undocumented workers are the root of the problem.  If the bulk of the hiring stopped, the bulk of the immigrants would go home.  I support this with the evidence seen in Mexico recently of people returning due to the bad economy here.  I think there has been a concerted effort to get people angry at the illegals, so as to keep the heat off of employers.

ETA:  Florida is a "border state" in a way.  We get all of the carribean immigrants, primarily from Haiti and Cuba.

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I live in a city that is a "safe Haven" ....there are a lot of Chiuhuahua (sp?) license plates on vehicles....most without insurance and are crappy drivers....lots of DUI's....I don't want to generalize but this is stuff that I witness every day....I have friends from Mexico and I know that they aren't all bad.  I have also been kicked in the face by an illegal immagrant who has 6 typed pages of criminal history in 4 states...he is a convicted felony and a child molester...so I have seen both ends.  I have a friend who is a plumber and he tells me that no matter how easy the US makes it for illegals to become legal most wont...it is to their benifit ...they don't pay taxes...the aren't held responsible for anything bad they do....they do get assistance from the US government. ( my wife used to work in the welfare officer and she witnessed illegals drive up in a Lincoln Navigator, Cadillac, Dually, etc. and get food stamps as well as financial assistance (money).  I have been into several homes of illegals and they don't "live in squaller" the big screen plasma tvs etc.
They use the emergency room as a primary care doctor and tax payers are the ones paying....this clogs up the ER's so it can get difficult when real emergencies occur.
The US (taxpayers) are puting a large amount of money into supporting these people and these people only contribute about 1/10 of what they cost.
Oh...and I would say that 70-80% of the crime in my city is caused by illegals.
Again I don't want to generalize but this is what I see in my city...in a border state.

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He won't understand the difference between a real crime and some violation of a rule. They are one and the same to him which is whacked out.

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Blah blah blah, all they are doing is basically not paying a toll. It's not serious.

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Illegal immigration is a self-correcting problem. In recent years Mexico has had roughly one million surplus workers. However, the birth rate in Mexico is declining just as here in the US and Mexico's surplus of workers will continue to decline.

The better question is, after Mexico no longer exports workers, where will the needed workers come from ??




5sub

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You can't teach your kid it is ok to break the laws that you don't like.  Most Illegals come here legally and just stay pass their return date.

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in before you get told it is more complicated than this...

punish people employing them - illegal immigration largely goes away... it is a big part of it. Of course ther are a lot of them who will come for free stuff anyway

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The immigration debate is fucking stupid. We're all human beings and we're all related to one another. The only differences between us are false seperations created by societies and governments which view people outside of their controls as a threat.

*just stirring the shit a bit*

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I don't want to get into semantics. What I mean is that they aren't commiting crimes other than those directly related to their immigration status.

A deputy was shot and killed during a routine traffic stop, and a suspect is in custody after an intense manhunt by land and air, a Kenosha County sheriff's official said Thursday.



Deputy Frank Fabiano Jr. was trying to pull over a red Chevrolet Astro van near the University of Wisconsin-Parkside campus at about 11:37 p.m. Wednesday when he was shot once in the face, according to the Kenosha County Sheriff's Department.



A Parkside police officer serving as a backup radioed that shots had been fired and a deputy was down. He also returned fire, according to the Kenosha County Sheriff's Department.



The shooting happened in an upscale neighborhood on 45th Avenue just south of Highway E.



The gunman disappeared into a wooded area, as dozens of squad cars streamed into the area. A helicopter and police dogs were brought in to search for the male suspect.



As the three-hour manhunt began, authorities sent a telephone message –– a "child is missing" alert –– to residents of the area urging them to be on the alert.



Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth said people called in tips that were useful.



Kenosha County Sheriff's spokesman Gil Benn said the 44-year-old suspect was arrested at the Woodcreek Apartment Complex, located about a half-mile from the shooting scene just after 2:30 a.m.



Ezeiquiel Lopez was hiding behind some cars and was still armed, according to Beth.



He was treated at Kenosha Memorial Hospital for injuries and is in the Racine County Jail.



Beth said the suspect had eight aliases and at least five Social Security numbers. The sheriff said Lopez has a Kenosha address, although it was not known if it is current. Lopez, who was born in Durango, Mexico, has also been arrested several times.



Fabiano was transported to St. Catherine's Hospital, where he pronounced dead. He is survived by his wife and 7-year-old daughter.



Fabiano, an 18-year veteran of the force, received a silver star from the Kenosha County Sheriff's Department for rescuing someone from a burning building in Paddock Lake in 1991. He also received a purple heart in 1991 after getting shot in Paddock Lake.



He graduated from Bradford High School in 1977 and loved to go golfing, Beth said.



The Wisconsin Department of Criminal Investigation is now in charge of the case.

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You also have to elimate the "anchor babies" rule.  Just cause a kid's first breath is of American air, doesn't mean that the kid and parents get to stay here.  2 illegal parents = an illegal kid.  

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Actually, there is NO Constitutional obligation to illegals who happen to squat an shit out a kid in the US. But the COngress critters love to think so. And we keep allowing them to get away with it.