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If a god exists, it is either uncaring or outright malevolent.

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If a god exists, it is either uncaring or outright malevolent.

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I'm not a deeply religious man, but I just received this email and had to share. Probably the best argument ever.


A science professor begins his school year with a lecture to the students, 'Let me explain the problem science has with religion.' The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

'You're a Christian, aren't you, son?'
'Yes sir,' the student says.

'So you believe in God?'
'Absolutely.'

'Is God good?'
'Sure! God's good. '

'Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?'
'Yes.'

'Are you good or evil?'
'The Bible says I'm evil.'

The professor grins knowingly. 'Aha! The Bible!' He considers for a moment. 'Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?'

'Yes sir, I would.'

'So you're good...!'
'I wouldn't say that.'

'But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't.'

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. 'He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?'

The student remains silent.

'No, you can't, can you?' the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

'Let's start again, young fell a. Is God good?'
'Er...yes,' the student says.

'Is Satan good?'
The student doesn't hesitate on this one. 'No.'

'Then where does Satan come from?'
The student falters. 'From God'

'That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?'
'Yes, sir.'

'Evil is everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?'

'Yes.'

'So who created evil?' The professor continued, 'If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil.'

Again, the student has no answer. 'Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?'

The student squirms on his feet. 'Yes.'

'So who created them?'

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. 'Who created them?' There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. 'Tell me,' he continues onto another student. 'Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?'

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. 'Yes, professor, I do.'

The old man stops pacing. 'Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?'

'No sir. I've never seen Him.'

0A'Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?'
'No, sir, I have not.'

'Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?'

'No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't.'
'Yet you still believe in him?'
'Yes.'

'According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?'

'Nothing,' the student replies. 'I only have my faith.'
'Yes, faith,' the professor repeats. 'And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith.'

At the back of the room another student stands quietly for a moment before asking a question of His own. 'Professor, is there such thing as heat?'

'Yes,' the professor replies. 'There's heat.'

'And is there such a thing as cold?'
'Yes, son, there's cold too.'
'No sir, there isn't.'

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. 'You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat , but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees.'

'Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.'

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

'What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?'

'Yes,' the professor re plies without hesitation. 'What is night if it isn't darkness?'

'You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word.'

'In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?'

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. 'So what point are you making, young man?'

'Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.'

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. 'Flawed? Can you explain how?'

'You are working on the premise of duality,' the student explains. 'You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought.'

'It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.'

'Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?'

'If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do.'

'Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?'

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

'Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?'

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.

'To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean.'

The student looks around the room. 'Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?' The class breaks out into laughter.

'Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir.'

'So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?'

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable.

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. 'I guess you'll have to take them on faith.'

'Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life,' the student continues. 'Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?'

Now uncertain, the professor responds, 'Of course, there is. We see it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.'

To this the student replied, 'Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.'

The professor sat down.

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Why do some christians view "science" as a threat to their religion? "Science" and religion are compatible...

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Why do some christians view "science" as a threat to their religion? "Science" and religion are compatible...

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[>:/]



where are you living at?

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Anyone know who came up with the big bang theory that current scientists use as a model for the creation of our known universe?

Winner gets a cookie.

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hubble?  

eta: spelling   lol

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Anyone know who came up with the big bang theory that current scientists use as a model for the creation of our known universe?



Winner gets a cookie.

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Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître (July 17, 1894 – June 20, 1966) was a Belgian Roman Catholic priest, honorary prelate, professor of physics and astronomer at the Catholic University of Leuven

Catholics understand science and God are compatible.

Please do not confuse Catholics for evangelical christians. We also *GASP do not believe the earth is 6000 years old.

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The Father of Modern Genetics was also a Catholic Priest, Gregor Mendel.



BTW Big Bang theory is compatible with the Creation Model in the Gospel According to John.

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I love it when people take disparate concepts, and attempt to show that they are analogous. Lack of heat = cold, therefore lack of God = evil. <snort>

I like this. From now on, I am going to suggest that good is merely the lack of evil. I submit that God is 100% pure evil, and that a lack of God (like a lack of heat) leaves you with pure good.

I'm so smart. I want a cookie.  

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I live only a couple of miles from you, I'll be driving around in a red F150 with some cookies. If I drive by your house pop off a couple of rounds and I'll give you one. Then we can watch the religious folk pat themselves on the back after making bad arguments over and over again.

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That's what Christians call free will. Whenever something good happens, God did it. When something awful happens, it's humans using free will to do awful things. Get it?

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Seriously, it's a nice day out (with good tires! ). If you want to drop by, we can totally hang out for a bit.

I'm planning on hanging some more insulation in the garage, but hell...I'll hang with my Michigan brethren.
 

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I used to live in Ohio

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Not saying there is or not, but how could you possibly have the perspective to know this?

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Another one, since I'm feeling feisty -

I did not see Lon Horiuchi kill Vicki Weaver, and I cannot reproduce this event. Therefore, he is innocent.

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check your IMs

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Not saying there is or not, but how could you possibly have the perspective to know this?

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Yeah, i'm sold. Where's my God Tshirt?

You can physically see someone has a brain by cutting open their skull, or an MRI and various other methods. I'm pretty sure I can't just crack open a can of God whenever i'd like some proof.

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1. Biblical scholars and theologians have already addressed the problem of evil, and have done so MUCH more elegantly than the numbnuts who wrote this piece of shit.
2. The oversimplification (better stated - downright mis-characterization) of evolution and natural selection would be funny, if it wasn't so damn saddening. What an amazing display of proud ignorance.

"Have you ever seen the professor's brain?" What a fucking tool. People are supposed to take this seriously?

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Because science pretty much says "hey...that god guy you're always babbling on about....yea...he doesn't exist"

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Check yours.

 

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The point is going way over your head.  You CAN prove he has a brain but it hasn't been proven yet.  Therefor anyone that believes he has a brain is simply believing so because they have faith, not proof.  Thus, this proves that faith exists and that even a scientist has faith in some things that haven't been proven to him.

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Two ways of looking at that -

1. Knowing all you know today about biological evolution, the rapid expansion of the universe, etc, etc - how might you explain this to primitive people 2,500 years ago, many of whom could not even read? The Creation story is "good enough", I'd think.
2. If you use imprecise language and allegory to describe something, it can be adapted to pretty much anything with relative ease, thereby guaranteeing it always "fits" with what we believe is likely to be true - rather conveniently, I might add.
 

'Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?'

'If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do.'