Posted: 12/30/2008 5:50:11 PM EDT
| I have a .308 remington bolt Gun that shoots a 168 grain bul. well. My Question is this; If I buy 4 or five boxes of federal 150 grain ammo commonly used in the M14 because it is cheaper than match grade for stocking up purposes. Does a 150 Grain .308 fair well as a gneral purpose, average accuracy round? For example, When you are killing a deer 150g would do in a .308? correct? Help Me out here. Thnx |
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The purpose of the 168 is to keep the bullet stable over a long distance. At hunting distance, no deer can tell the difference between a 150 and a 168.
Point of impact will be a little different, but at hunting distance, probably not enough for a deer to notice. Compare on paper before you head out. Off a bench, groups are little. In the hunting field, there are very few benches. From a hunting position (sitting, kneeling, uneven ground, unsteady rest, freezing cold, soaking wet), the goal is to be able to shoot 8-10" groups. That's not easy. Maximum "hunting distance" for me is 200-300 yards, the distance at which I feel like I can guarantee hitting an 8-10" circle under field conditions (not the same thing as shooting an 8-10" group). (Last deer I shot, I was sitting on a fallen, dried-out prickly pear cactus pad! Hard to shoot 1" groups that way.) Bottom line: 150 is fine. ETA: You mention 150 "like those used in the M1A." Be sure you are using SP or HP, not FMJ for hunting. |
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I have a somewhat related question ... I've been wanting to buy a nice .308 bolt gun and get into reloading.
I also have a couple of battle packs of .308 surplus. 200 rnds each. I think it's from portugal. Anyway, would firing this cruddy surp cause any problems in a nice bolt gun other than having less accuracy than match ammo? I.e. would it damage the rifle in any way. I'm thinking it might be good to keep some of this stuff around for practice ammo and deer hunting (which is at 100-200 yds for me) instead of burning up expensive match ammo. |
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Quoted:
I have a somewhat related question ... I've been wanting to buy a nice .308 bolt gun and get into reloading. I also have a couple of battle packs of .308 surplus. 200 rnds each. I think it's from portugal. Anyway, would firing this cruddy surp cause any problems in a nice bolt gun other than having less accuracy than match ammo? I.e. would it damage the rifle in any way. I'm thinking it might be good to keep some of this stuff around for practice ammo and deer hunting (which is at 100-200 yds for me) instead of burning up expensive match ammo. It would cause no problems at all. Shoot and enjoy. Again, don't use FMJ for hunting. |
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I've always used soft point hunting However I had never considered hunting with FMJ. I guess it would be over penetration and NOT enough trauma, correct? FMJ worked fine for my father in law when he had nothing but a couple of milsurp rifles left after everything else got stolen. This pig didn't seem to notice that the bullet didn't expand. ETA––down within 25 yards 
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Quoted:
I have a somewhat related question ... I've been wanting to buy a nice .308 bolt gun and get into reloading. I also have a couple of battle packs of .308 surplus. 200 rnds each. I think it's from portugal. Anyway, would firing this cruddy surp cause any problems in a nice bolt gun other than having less accuracy than match ammo? I.e. would it damage the rifle in any way. I'm thinking it might be good to keep some of this stuff around for practice ammo and deer hunting (which is at 100-200 yds for me) instead of burning up expensive match ammo. Why would you do that? If you buy a nice bolt gun, why would you shoot less than quality ammo through it? At least get quality ammo or reload a round that works for it. Use the surplus for your battle rifle such as a FAL or M1a. |
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Quoted: That's dependent on where you hit the animal. Strike him with FMJ in the shoulder and you will may kill him with one round. Some creatures, like elk, have really heavy, solid bones. I have heard of hunters hitting elk in the wrong spot with a hunting type bullet and only doing superficial damage. Note that this could happen with ANY round, but FMJ minimizes that risk.I've always used soft point hunting However I had never considered hunting with FMJ. I guess it would be over penetration and NOT enough trauma, correct? The chances of that happening are pretty minimal. Most of the time (probably > 90%), the best round for hunting has a soft/hollowpointed bullet type. There's a far greater chance you will strike your prey in an area where you will need the expansion of the bullet as you will likely miss bones altogether, smash straight through at a perpendicular-ish angle, or hit ribs or other small bones that won't degrade penetration by enough to make a difference. That bullet will need to expand to maximize the potentiality that vital organs will be hit so the animal is put down quickly. |
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That's dependent on where you hit the animal. Strike him with FMJ in the shoulder and you will may kill him with one round. Some creatures, like elk, have really heavy, solid bones. I have heard of hunters hitting elk in the wrong spot with a hunting type bullet and only doing superficial damage. Note that this could happen with ANY round, but FMJ minimizes that risk.
I've always used soft point hunting However I had never considered hunting with FMJ. I guess it would be over penetration and NOT enough trauma, correct? The chances of that happening are pretty minimal. Most of the time (probably > 90%), the best round for hunting has a soft/hollowpointed bullet type. There's a far greater chance you will strike your prey in an area where you will need the expansion of the bullet as you will likely miss bones altogether, smash straight through at a perpendicular-ish angle, or hit ribs or other small bones that won't degrade penetration by enough to make a difference. That bullet will need to expand to maximize the potentiality that vital organs will be hit so the animal is put down quickly. Hitting bone with FMJ is actually preferable IMO, depending on the caliber used and animal being shot. *Generally* failures of soft point type bullets are due to the wrong one being used for the application and/or impact velocity being too high or too low. Extreme example–– 125 grain bullet in .308 versus 180 grain bullet in .308 on animals such as elk. Depending on what the impact velocity is, the 125 is probably going to break up and/or expand too quickly which will limit the penetration. The 180, at lower velocity, doesn't expand as quickly and/or break apart so it penetrates more deeply––-possibly all the way through depending on the bullet and the path of the bullet. |
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Ive shot mil surp 147 fmj outta my Rem 700 pss. Some of it will group inside 1.5 moa. Not too shabby. Doesnt hurt the rifle at all. Its a copper jacketed bullet with non corrosive primers. Fine for practice, especially considering what match ammo is running.
That said, I typically shoot Fed 168 Gold Metal Match out of it and thats a sub moa round/rifle combo. I started hunting with a Federal Load of 165 sierra gamekings because it shot to nearly the same zero as the match ammo. No messing with the scope that way. It killed deer no problem. Ive been migrating to heavier, higher BC bullets though. This year I bought the new Federal loading of the 180gr Trophy Bonded Tip. First doe didnt walk a step. Nice exit wound. Instant mortality with the round right thru the heart. Second doe made it about 25 ft. Everything in the chest area was destroyed beyond recognition. Did I need a 180? No a 150 or 165 would do the job. Shot placement and bullet construction have way more to do with it than weight. |
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The 147 can be found for what currently seems to be an amazing $120 per 200!
Remember when that wouldn't be a big deal? I prefer Match 168 but at current prices sending a lot of rounds down range gets stupid, just wasting money. Granted, I'm using a piston action carbine (POF) so I can keep my match 168 for SHTF or a good hunt (yeah, I hunt hogs with the semi-auto .308...you would too!) but the 147 Win puts pretty good groups, especially in rapid fire situations. As for FMJ...Kill the debate and send 5 or 10 rounds down range and F whatever you're shooting at up! |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I have a somewhat related question ... I've been wanting to buy a nice .308 bolt gun and get into reloading. I also have a couple of battle packs of .308 surplus. 200 rnds each. I think it's from portugal. Anyway, would firing this cruddy surp cause any problems in a nice bolt gun other than having less accuracy than match ammo? I.e. would it damage the rifle in any way. I'm thinking it might be good to keep some of this stuff around for practice ammo and deer hunting (which is at 100-200 yds for me) instead of burning up expensive match ammo. Why would you do that? If you buy a nice bolt gun, why would you shoot less than quality ammo through it? At least get quality ammo or reload a round that works for it. Use the surplus for your battle rifle such as a FAL or M1a. because it's cheap, I already have it, and I don't have and don't want to spend the money to get a "battle rifle". Especially when after I burn through my 600 rounds of .308 I'll be paying out the ass for ammo to ever use the thing. |
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A lung/chest cavity hit with .308 FMJ will f-up a white tail deer.
Bullet went through a rib going in and through a rib going out. Turned contents of chest cavity to mush. Could not recognize heart. This bullet was a 150 grain soft point that did not expand. Entry hole in right rib was same size as exit hole through left rib. Some .308 FMJ could due more damage than soft point due to fragmentation like a 5.56.... |
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Personally, I choose the best load (weight, vel, energy, accuracy, bullet performance, etc.) for each of my hunting rifles and stick to that. Even with pre-season practice and re-sighting I am still shooting less than 40rounds per year (in my hunting rifles) so saving $10 or $20 per box really isn't a big concern for me considering the overall "cost" of hunting (travel, land use fees, any guide fees, permits, meat processing, time from work, etc.).
Now, if all you want to do is take your rifle out for some plinking then by all means save a little cash but for serious work I have never regretted paying for the best products for the job at hand. |
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Why are you so hell bent on using mil-surp for hunting? I generally deer hunt with my .270. I don't think I have shot a box of shells out of it in 5 years. A couple of shots to confirm zero and a couple for the deer I shoot.
Practice with what you want throughout the year, when hunting season approaches, shoot 4-8X to get it zeroed and off to the woods. The money we are talking about is hardly significant. $10-$15 perhaps? Spending a few bucks is better than using ammunition that may likely result in a wounded deer. I don't care how many people say that FMJ is fine for deer. It isn't. There is a reason why there are hunting loads. John Nosler started his company when he grew frustrated at losing game because the only choices of bullets were FMJ. Hollow points also aren't for hunting. While a step up from FMJ, they are not made to fragment or expand. They are made for aerodynamic flight at long range. They are not to be confused with handgun HP's or HP's used for varmint hunting. Soft points and ballistic tips for deer (or Failsafe hollow points). |
| If I can change the subject slightly, I have a new .308 rifle and was thinking about breaking in the barrel as best as possible to last and perform and someone recomended to use moly something on it and wipe it out again for longer jevity?? Wonder where to get some....anyone? |
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If I can change the subject slightly, I have a new .308 rifle and was thinking about breaking in the barrel as best as possible to last and perform and someone recomended to use moly something on it and wipe it out again for longer jevity?? Wonder where to get some....anyone? You can buy Black Hills moly-coated from www.midwayusa.com. IMO, a waste of time and money unless you are into one of those sports whether they measure groups to three decimal places. IMO, you are just as well off to break in a new rifle barrel by cleaning, then shooting and cleaning after every 5 rounds, repeat maybe 5 times. Everybody has their own opinion about it, though. |
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I've always used soft point hunting However I had never considered hunting with FMJ. I guess it would be over penetration and NOT enough trauma, correct? In AZ, it is illegal to hunt with "full-jacketed ammunition designed for military use." Regardless of the wisdom of that law, it is the law in AZ, and I suspect in other states. Check your own state law to stay legal. |