Remember, remember the 5th of November. The gunpowder, treason, and plot. I know of no reason why the gunpowder treason should ever be forgot.

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Just watched it last night...great movie.

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You're right, it is a great movie if you like a movie that demonizes right wing conservatism & creates sympathy for terrorism.

Of course, if you only saw a guy in black throwing knives around, then it might have appeared a slightly different movie than the one I saw.

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One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

Would you consider our founding fathers as terrorists because they stood up against tyranny and oppression?

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Bald Natalie Portman = FAIL

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You're right, it is a great movie if you like a movie that demonizes right wing conservatism & creates sympathy for terrorism.



Of course, if you only saw a guy in black throwing knives around, then it might have appeared a slightly different movie than the one I saw.

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You're right, it is a great movie if you like a movie that demonizes right wing conservatism & creates sympathy for terrorism.

Of course, if you only saw a guy in black throwing knives around, then it might have appeared a slightly different movie than the one I saw.

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I saw it as demonizing facism, but maybe we saw different movies?

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I saw it as demonizing facism, but maybe we saw different movies?

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 One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.



Would you consider our founding fathers as terrorists because they stood up against tyranny and oppression?

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I thought it was for Velveeta.

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I thought it was for Velveeta.

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Moral equivalency at it's disgusting worst.  

Do me a favor, next time you want to compare the founding fathers of this country with terrorists that intentionally target women, children and civilian non combatants, PLEASE DON'T.
 

What we need right now is a clear message to the people of this country. This message must be read in every newspaper, heard on every radio, seen on every television... I want *everyone* to *remember*, why they *need* us!

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I saw it as demonizing facism, but maybe we saw different movies?

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The 5th of November has new meaning now.

It's the day America got flushed down the toilet.

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You're right, it is a great movie if you like a movie that demonizes right wing conservatism & creates sympathy for terrorism.

Of course, if you only saw a guy in black throwing knives around, then it might have appeared a slightly different movie than the one I saw.

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That what happens when you let left wing moonbats tweak with a script. The original story was cool. But then morons see this movie and think "9-11 was an inside job!" Our Gov't is Evil! The terrorists are just cool freedom fighters like V!!  that was the essential core message of the flick, Right wing Christian Dictator oppresses Muslims AND gays and runs death camp. And lovely gay man reads the Koran for its poetry! Oh how cosmopolitan and progressive of you! Did you get to the part where you're beheaded for buttfucking? Was that poetry written in Iambic pentameter? Fuck off commie scum Wachowsky Bros.

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One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.



Would you consider our founding fathers as terrorists because they stood up against tyranny and oppression?

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You're right, it is a great movie if you like a movie that demonizes right wing conservatism & creates sympathy for terrorism.

Of course, if you only saw a guy in black throwing knives around, then it might have appeared a slightly different movie than the one I saw.

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One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

Would you consider our founding fathers as terrorists because they stood up against tyranny and oppression?

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Not relevant....the film makers were making a point, and the point is that the Right Wing is fascism, and fighting it with terror is appropriate.

If you didn't get that, sorry for your luck. You can take any message away you want, but I'll stick to the ones that the weirdos who shot the movie intended.

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Not relevant....the film makers were making a point, and the point is that the Right Wing is fascism, and fighting it with terror is appropriate.

If you didn't get that, sorry for your luck. You can take any message away you want, but I'll stick to the ones that the weirdos who shot the movie intended.

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Fighting any tyrannical government whether its Neo-Fascist or Marxist-Communist is a duty every man women and child should take upon themselves in the name of life and liberty. The fact they movie implied a Conservative government is irrelevant.

ETA Spelling

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- Jeff Cohen

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I enjoyed the movie the movie as well.

As a side note the word terrorist in this forum seems to thrown around quite a bit with no solid definition behind it. Some of you here seem to think it is terrorism as the violence involves soft/civilian targets. That doesn't seem to fit quite well with any of the standard definitions as a standalone. Here is a little bit of reading to help you understand what terrorism is:


Terrorism is not new, and even though it has been used since the beginning of recorded history it can be relatively hard to define. Terrorism has been described variously as both a tactic and strategy; a crime and a holy duty; a justified reaction to oppression and an inexcusable abomination. Obviously, a lot depends on whose point of view is being represented. Terrorism has often been an effective tactic for the weaker side in a conflict. As an asymmetric form of conflict, it confers coercive power with many of the advantages of military force at a fraction of the cost. Due to the secretive nature and small size of terrorist organizations, they often offer opponents no clear organization to defend against or to deter.

That is why preemption is being considered to be so important. In some cases, terrorism has been a means to carry on a conflict without the adversary realizing the nature of the threat, mistaking terrorism for criminal activity. Because of these characteristics, terrorism has become increasingly common among those pursuing extreme goals throughout the world. But despite its popularity, terrorism can be a nebulous concept. Even within the U.S. Government, agencies responsible for different functions in the ongoing fight against terrorism use different definitions.

The United States Department of Defense defines terrorism as “the calculated use of unlawful violence or threat of unlawful violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological.” Within this definition, there are three key elements—violence, fear, and intimidation—and each element produces terror in its victims. The FBI uses this: "Terrorism is the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives." The U.S. Department of State defines "terrorism" to be "premeditated politically-motivated violence perpetrated against non-combatant targets by sub-national groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience.

Outside the United States Government, there are greater variations in what features of terrorism are emphasized in definitions. The United Nations produced this definition in 1992; "An anxiety-inspiring method of repeated violent action, employed by (semi-) clandestine individual, group or state actors, for idiosyncratic, criminal or political reasons, whereby - in contrast to assassination - the direct targets of violence are not the main targets." The most commonly accepted academic definition starts with the U.N. definition quoted above, and adds two sentences totaling another 77 words on the end; containing such verbose concepts as "message generators" and 'violence based communication processes." Less specific and considerably less verbose, the British Government definition of 1974 is"…the use of violence for political ends, and includes any use of violence for the purpose of putting the public, or any section of the public, in fear."

Terrorism is a criminal act that influences an audience beyond the immediate victim. The strategy of terrorists is to commit acts of violence that .draws the attention of the local populace, the government, and the world to their cause. The terrorists plan their attack to obtain the greatest publicity, choosing targets that symbolize what they oppose. The effectiveness of the terrorist act lies not in the act itself, but in the public’s or government’s reaction to the act. For example, in 1972 at the Munich Olympics, the Black September Organization killed 11 Israelis. The Israelis were the immediate victims. But the true target was the estimated 1 billion people watching the televised event.

The Black September Organization used the high visibility of the Olympics to publicize its views on the plight of the Palestinian refugees. Similarly, in October 1983, Middle Eastern terrorists bombed the Marine Battalion Landing Team Headquarters at Beirut International Airport. Their immediate victims were the 241 U.S. military personnel who were killed and over 100 others who were wounded. Their true target was the American people and the U.S. Congress. Their one act of violence influenced the United States’ decision to withdraw the Marines from Beirut and was therefore considered a terrorist success.

There are three perspectives of terrorism: the terrorist’s, the victim’s, and the general public’s. The phrase “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” is a view terrorists themselves would accept. Terrorists do not see themselves as evil. They believe they are legitimate combatants, fighting for what they believe in, by whatever means possible. A victim of a terrorist act sees the terrorist as a criminal with no regard for human life. The general public’s view is the most unstable. The terrorists take great pains to foster a “Robin Hood” image in hope of swaying the general public’s point of view toward their cause. This sympathetic view of terrorism has become an integral part of their psychological warfare and needs to be countered vigorously.

Here is another perspective on what a terrorist is:


ter·ror·ist (ter'er-ist) n. 1. One who engages in acts or an act of terrorism.

2. One who leads an armed group that kills civilians as a means of political intimidation –– unless he terrorizes Haitians while on the CIA-payroll, as did 1990s death squad leader Emmanuel Constant, in which case the U.S. refuses to extradite him to Haiti, even after Sept. 11, 2001.

3. One who targets civilian airliners and ships –– unless he blows up a Cuban civilian airliner, killing 73 people, and fires at a Polish freighter, like Orlando Bosch, in which case he is coddled and paroled by the Bush Justice Department in 1990, and his extradition is blocked.

4. One who leads a group that engages in kidnapping and murder –– unless the victims are Hondurans attacked by CIA-backed death squad Battalion 316, in which case Battalion architect Gustavo Alvarez becomes a Pentagon consultant, while the then-ambassador to Honduras who downplayed the terror, John Negroponte, is appointed U.S. ambassador to the United Nations days after Sept. 11.

5. One who uses rape and murder for political purposes –– unless the victims are four U.S. church women sexually assaulted and killed in 1980 by members of El Salvador’s U.S.-backed military, in which case excuses and distortions pour forth from then-U.N. Ambassador Jeane Kirkpatrick (“these nuns were not just nuns; they were also political activists”) and Secretary of State Al Haig (the nuns “may have tried to run a roadblock”).

6. One who designates civilians as “soft targets” to be attacked in the cause of political transformation –– unless the targets are Nicaraguans killed by Contra guerrillas armed and directed by the U.S who, according to Human Rights Watch, “systematically engage in violent abuses…so prevalent that these may be said to be their principal means of waging war.”

7. One who facilitates a massacre of civilians –– unless the victims are 900 Palestinians shot and hacked to death in the Sabra and Shatila camps by Lebanese Christian militia as Israeli soldiers stood guard, in which case Israel’s then-Defense Minster (now Prime Minister) Ariel Sharon remains a U.S. “War on Terrorism” ally after being censured as indirectly responsible for the massacre by an Israeli commission of inquiry.

- Jeff Cohen

The definition of terrorism is so sweeping and so broad that it can overstep our own Constitution.