[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 9mm Load (Page 1 of 5)
Posted: 12/19/2008 6:59:18 AM EDT
| What is the best load for the 9mm for self defense? Not trying to start a 9mm vs 45 thread. |
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DoubleTap Ammo's 147gr +P Gold Dot
1135fps / 421ft. lbs. from a Glock 17. http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_37&products_id=121 |
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Good God man, if genuinely want answers come over to the Handgun forum and ask your question in the Ammunition or Carry Issues area. Or, just click the link below and read. http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm |
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I can't seem to find the Winchester 147gr RA9T in stock anywhere.  I swear I saw a thread about how they're not selling the ranger's to the public anymore. They sell to retailers, who in turn sell to public. I mean, no public channel at all. I guess I was wrong? |
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Depends what kind of self defense. For your HOME, the only ammo you should be thinking about is MagSafe pre-fragmented. The hollow points will NOT expand and lose energy going through wall board and you run the risk of injuring someone else in your home, or the round goes through your home and hurts someone in a nearby house. All very possible with hollow points. For STREET DEFENSE, go with whatever ammo you can afford to buy in BULK, practice with, and ensure feed and function in your weapon. For me, its American Eagle 115g FMJ. Not as tricked out as the other rounds but remember a couple things: 1. The ODDS of you ever having to even need a handgun are extremely low, and: 2. The mere APPEARANCE of a gun will deter virtually any assault. So, what we are talking about is hitting the lottery in a bad sense. Really, the 115g FMJ will get the job done no problem. I've thankfully never had to shoot at a person and hope to never have to, but from all the range work I've done with my inexpensive and utterly reliable AE loads I have complete confidence that a torso hit anywhere ends the engagement. |
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Quoted: Depends what kind of self defense. For your HOME, the only ammo you should be thinking about is MagSafe pre-fragmented. The hollow points will NOT expand and lose energy going through wall board and you run the risk of injuring someone else in your home, or the round goes through your home and hurts someone in a nearby house. All very possible with hollow points. For STREET DEFENSE, go with whatever ammo you can afford to buy in BULK, practice with, and ensure feed and function in your weapon. For me, its American Eagle 115g FMJ. Not as tricked out as the other rounds but remember a couple things: 1. The ODDS of you ever having to even need a handgun are extremely low, and: 2. The mere APPEARANCE of a gun will deter virtually any assault. So, what we are talking about is hitting the lottery in a bad sense. Really, the 115g FMJ will get the job done no problem. I've thankfully never had to shoot at a person and hope to never have to, but from all the range work I've done with my inexpensive and utterly reliable AE loads I have complete confidence that a torso hit anywhere ends the engagement.  Your post contains so many errors it's not even funny. Please don't give advice to people about something you knwo nothing about. |
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Its hard to pick a best round for self defense. Golden Saber, Hydrashock, Ranger, Gold Dot and many others are all designed for self defense and are great rounds. Try some in your own weapon and see which are the most reliable and which you are most accurate with.
Personally, I like the Hydrashock. |
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Depends what kind of self defense. For your HOME, the only ammo you should be thinking about is MagSafe pre-fragmented. The hollow points will NOT expand and lose energy going through wall board and you run the risk of injuring someone else in your home, or the round goes through your home and hurts someone in a nearby house. All very possible with hollow points.
For STREET DEFENSE, go with whatever ammo you can afford to buy in BULK, practice with, and ensure feed and function in your weapon. For me, its American Eagle 115g FMJ. Not as tricked out as the other rounds but remember a couple things: 1. The ODDS of you ever having to even need a handgun are extremely low, and: 2. The mere APPEARANCE of a gun will deter virtually any assault. So, what we are talking about is hitting the lottery in a bad sense. Really, the 115g FMJ will get the job done no problem. I've thankfully never had to shoot at a person and hope to never have to, but from all the range work I've done with my inexpensive and utterly reliable AE loads I have complete confidence that a torso hit anywhere ends the engagement. 
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Quoted: I probably forgot more about this topic than you currently know. Please don't condescend another person's opinion without facts. And the facts are that MagSafe's are your best bet in the home and the 115FMJ has been executing its mission efficiently since the early 20th century. Sorry I don't subscribe to the politically correct handgun crowd.Quoted: http://media.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=1213Depends what kind of self defense. For your HOME, the only ammo you should be thinking about is MagSafe pre-fragmented. The hollow points will NOT expand and lose energy going through wall board and you run the risk of injuring someone else in your home, or the round goes through your home and hurts someone in a nearby house. All very possible with hollow points. For STREET DEFENSE, go with whatever ammo you can afford to buy inBULK, practice with, and ensure feed and function in your weapon. Forme, its American Eagle 115g FMJ. Not as tricked out as the other roundsbut remember a couple things: 1. The ODDS of you ever having to even need a handgun are extremely low, and: 2. The mere APPEARANCE of a gun will deter virtually any assault. So,what we are talking about is hitting the lottery in a bad sense.Really, the 115g FMJ will get the job done no problem. I've thankfullynever had to shoot at a person and hope to never have to, but from allthe range work I've done with my inexpensive and utterly reliable AEloads I have complete confidence that a torso hit anywhere ends theengagement. Your post contains so many errors it's not even funny. Please don't give advice to people about something you knwo nothing about. |
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Quoted: I apologize for being condescending. I would be happy to point you to the research on which my opinion is based on.I probably forgot more about this topic than you currently know. Please don't condescend another person's opinion without facts. And the facts are that MagSafe's are your best bet in the home and the 115FMJ has been executing its mission efficiently since the early 20th century. Sorry I don't subscribe to the politically correct handgun crowd. On what research do you base the statement that "the facts are that MagSafe's are your best bet in the home"? |
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Quoted: Thanks for the apology you are the man. Here is my line of thought and I am big enough to accept well reasoned criticism:Quoted: I apologize for being condescending. I would be happy to point you to the research on which my opinion is based on.I probably forgot more about this topic than you currently know. Please don't condescend another person's opinion without facts. And the facts are that MagSafe's are your best bet in the home and the 115FMJ has been executing its mission efficiently since the early 20th century. Sorry I don't subscribe to the politically correct handgun crowd. On what research do you base the statement that "the facts are that MagSafe's are your best bet in the home"? I go with MagSafe's in the home because I have 4 kids and a wife (and two dogs). Everyone is spread out all over the house in different bedrooms. I'm a good shot but I've never been in a situation where I've actually had to discharge a firearm in a life or death, limited visibility scenario...so I'm assuming I will miss, and so should you. No matter how hard you train, you can't duplicate this scenario, and the never ending example of f*cked up police firefights where they expend dozens of rounds and miss is a good illustration. The hollow points I've fired at the range penetrated 1/2" plywood with virtually no expansion. When I've fired them at other rigid/semi rigid material (sheets of cardboard, particle board, etc). its the same thing. They still overpenetrate on rigid material. A pre-fragmented projectile is designed to break apart on rigid material. I don't want a miss to go through a wall and kill one of my kids...imagine trying to live with that (you can't). Ammo selection is always a compromise and is always based on the situation. Is a Hydrashock a better manstopper than a MagSafe? Probably, but you need to weigh in the rest of the scenario and overpenetration of rounds in a house full of kids is simply not an option. At something like $2 a ROUND these things are extremely expensive but you can't put a price on the safety of your family. If you have some good research on expansion and energy loss of hollowpoints in rigid material that contradicts my own findings lay it on me. If you are a single guy out in the country, disregard all the above and get a pump shootgun with #0...this is your best home defense setup. This is a long reply and I'll defend my 115g FMJ comment in another post. |
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Thanks for the apology you are the man. Here is my line of thought and I am big enough to accept well reasoned criticism:
Quoted:
I apologize for being condescending. I would be happy to point you to the research on which my opinion is based on.
I probably forgot more about this topic than you currently know. Please don't condescend another person's opinion without facts. And the facts are that MagSafe's are your best bet in the home and the 115FMJ has been executing its mission efficiently since the early 20th century. Sorry I don't subscribe to the politically correct handgun crowd. On what research do you base the statement that "the facts are that MagSafe's are your best bet in the home"? I go with MagSafe's in the home because I have 4 kids and a wife (and two dogs). Everyone is spread out all over the house in different bedrooms. I'm a good shot but I've never been in a situation where I've actually had to discharge a firearm in a life or death, limited visibility scenario...so I'm assuming I will miss, and so should you. No matter how hard you train, you can't duplicate this scenario, and the never ending example of f*cked up police firefights where they expend dozens of rounds and miss is a good illustration. The hollow points I've fired at the range penetrated 1/2" plywood with virtually no expansion. When I've fired them at other rigid/semi rigid material (sheets of cardboard, particle board, etc). its the same thing. They still overpenetrate on rigid material. A pre-fragmented projectile is designed to break apart on rigid material. I don't want a miss to go through a wall and kill one of my kids...imagine trying to live with that (you can't). Ammo selection is always a compromise and is always based on the situation. Is a Hydrashock a better manstopper than a MagSafe? Probably, but you need to weigh in the rest of the scenario and overpenetration of rounds in a house full of kids is simply not an option. At something like $2 a ROUND these things are extremely expensive but you can't put a price on the safety of your family. If you have some good research on expansion and energy loss of hollowpoints in rigid material that contradicts my own findings lay it on me. If you are a single guy out in the country, disregard all the above and get a pump shootgun with #0...this is your best home defense setup. This is a long reply and I'll defend my 115g FMJ comment in another post. So you're saying you have no RESEARCH to base your conclusion off of, just anecdotal evidence (ie your own perceived interpretations from a non-scientific test at the range, which proved your bias) and your emotions? |
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Quoted: Dude, there is no emotion at all in my posts. And, all the studies I've seen done on penetration are all tissue based studies. That's not what were talking about; we're talking about 9mm hollow point overpenetration in rigid material. The prefragmented round is the gold standard...its is used by pilots and airmarshals today. I don't have the money to run a full out, double blind placebo controlled study...I shot hollow points through various rigid material and went through easily. I was trying to duplicate a round going through a conventional 2x4 stud wall with plywood or wall board.Quoted: Quoted: Thanks for the apology you are the man. Here is my line of thought and I am big enough to accept well reasoned criticism:Quoted: I apologize for being condescending. I would be happy to point you to the research on which my opinion is based on.I probably forgot more about this topic than you currently know. Please don't condescend another person's opinion without facts. And the facts are that MagSafe's are your best bet in the home and the 115FMJ has been executing its mission efficiently since the early 20th century. Sorry I don't subscribe to the politically correct handgun crowd. On what research do you base the statement that "the facts are that MagSafe's are your best bet in the home"? I go with MagSafe's in the home because I have 4 kids and a wife (and two dogs). Everyone is spread out all over the house in different bedrooms. I'm a good shot but I've never been in a situation where I've actually had to discharge a firearm in a life or death, limited visibility scenario...so I'm assuming I will miss, and so should you. No matter how hard you train, you can't duplicate this scenario, and the never ending example of f*cked up police firefights where they expend dozens of rounds and miss is a good illustration. The hollow points I've fired at the range penetrated 1/2" plywood with virtually no expansion. When I've fired them at other rigid/semi rigid material (sheets of cardboard, particle board, etc). its the same thing. They still overpenetrate on rigid material. A pre-fragmented projectile is designed to break apart on rigid material. I don't want a miss to go through a wall and kill one of my kids...imagine trying to live with that (you can't). Ammo selection is always a compromise and is always based on the situation. Is a Hydrashock a better manstopper than a MagSafe? Probably, but you need to weigh in the rest of the scenario and overpenetration of rounds in a house full of kids is simply not an option. At something like $2 a ROUND these things are extremely expensive but you can't put a price on the safety of your family. If you have some good research on expansion and energy loss of hollowpoints in rigid material that contradicts my own findings lay it on me. If you are a single guy out in the country, disregard all the above and get a pump shootgun with #0...this is your best home defense setup. This is a long reply and I'll defend my 115g FMJ comment in another post. So you're saying you have no RESEARCH to base your conclusion off of, just anecdotal evidence (ie your own perceived interpretations from a non-scientific test at the range, which proved your bias) and your emotions? |
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Im still using 124 gr+p gold dots out of my xd-9s.
I see a lot of people here have swung to the 147 gr loads. I realize this is splitting hairs, but what benefits does the 147 gr offer over the 124 gr? Will they penetrate auto bodies and auto glass better? *thinking about swapping to 147 gr* |
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Dude, there is no emotion at all in my posts. And, all the studies I've seen done on penetration are all tissue based studies. That's not what were talking about; we're talking about 9mm hollow point overpenetration in rigid material. The prefragmented round is the gold standard...its is used by pilots and airmarshals today. I don't have the money to run a full out, double blind placebo controlled study...I shot hollow points through various rigid material and went through easily. I was trying to duplicate a round going through a conventional 2x4 stud wall with plywood or wall board.
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Thanks for the apology you are the man. Here is my line of thought and I am big enough to accept well reasoned criticism:
Quoted:
I apologize for being condescending. I would be happy to point you to the research on which my opinion is based on.
I probably forgot more about this topic than you currently know. Please don't condescend another person's opinion without facts. And the facts are that MagSafe's are your best bet in the home and the 115FMJ has been executing its mission efficiently since the early 20th century. Sorry I don't subscribe to the politically correct handgun crowd. On what research do you base the statement that "the facts are that MagSafe's are your best bet in the home"? I go with MagSafe's in the home because I have 4 kids and a wife (and two dogs). Everyone is spread out all over the house in different bedrooms. I'm a good shot but I've never been in a situation where I've actually had to discharge a firearm in a life or death, limited visibility scenario...so I'm assuming I will miss, and so should you. No matter how hard you train, you can't duplicate this scenario, and the never ending example of f*cked up police firefights where they expend dozens of rounds and miss is a good illustration. The hollow points I've fired at the range penetrated 1/2" plywood with virtually no expansion. When I've fired them at other rigid/semi rigid material (sheets of cardboard, particle board, etc). its the same thing. They still overpenetrate on rigid material. A pre-fragmented projectile is designed to break apart on rigid material. I don't want a miss to go through a wall and kill one of my kids...imagine trying to live with that (you can't). Ammo selection is always a compromise and is always based on the situation. Is a Hydrashock a better manstopper than a MagSafe? Probably, but you need to weigh in the rest of the scenario and overpenetration of rounds in a house full of kids is simply not an option. At something like $2 a ROUND these things are extremely expensive but you can't put a price on the safety of your family. If you have some good research on expansion and energy loss of hollowpoints in rigid material that contradicts my own findings lay it on me. If you are a single guy out in the country, disregard all the above and get a pump shootgun with #0...this is your best home defense setup. This is a long reply and I'll defend my 115g FMJ comment in another post. So you're saying you have no RESEARCH to base your conclusion off of, just anecdotal evidence (ie your own perceived interpretations from a non-scientific test at the range, which proved your bias) and your emotions? tomato What kind of birdshot do you recommend for those of us who use shotguns for home defense? I'm thinking some #6 would do, am I on the right track? |
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Im still using 124 gr+p gold dots out of my xd-9s. I see a lot of people here have swung to the 147 gr loads. I realize this is splitting hairs, but what benefits does the 147 gr offer over the 124 gr? Will they penetrate auto bodies and auto glass better? *thinking about swapping to 147 gr* If I'm wrong, someone will correct me, but if I remember correctly, the 147's provide better penetration in almost every circumstance, including glass, especially out of shorter barrels. |
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Quoted:
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Im still using 124 gr+p gold dots out of my xd-9s. I see a lot of people here have swung to the 147 gr loads. I realize this is splitting hairs, but what benefits does the 147 gr offer over the 124 gr? Will they penetrate auto bodies and auto glass better? *thinking about swapping to 147 gr* If I'm wrong, someone will correct me, but if I remember correctly, the 147's provide better penetration in almost every circumstance, including glass, especially out of shorter barrels. Yep, 147's were the solution to the percieved lack of penetration in the 9mm. |
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Quoted: If you have kids, get the lightest target loads out there...2 3/4", 1 oz, #8. You will greatly reduce the chance of overpenetration with the light loads. Once you loudly rack the slide an intruder in your house will flee in terror, and if they don't I would NOT want to get hit with a target load inside of 30'...with a cylinder bore or police bore choke you should get good spread inside of 30'. If you live alone, then I'd go with #0 Buck with a hunting load.Quoted: Quoted: Dude, there is no emotion at all in my posts. And, all the studies I've seen done on penetration are all tissue based studies. That's not what were talking about; we're talking about 9mm hollow point overpenetration in rigid material. The prefragmented round is the gold standard...its is used by pilots and airmarshals today. I don't have the money to run a full out, double blind placebo controlled study...I shot hollow points through various rigid material and went through easily. I was trying to duplicate a round going through a conventional 2x4 stud wall with plywood or wall board.Quoted: Quoted: Thanks for the apology you are the man. Here is my line of thought and I am big enough to accept well reasoned criticism:Quoted: I apologize for being condescending. I would be happy to point you to the research on which my opinion is based on.I probably forgot more about this topic than you currently know. Please don't condescend another person's opinion without facts. And the facts are that MagSafe's are your best bet in the home and the 115FMJ has been executing its mission efficiently since the early 20th century. Sorry I don't subscribe to the politically correct handgun crowd. On what research do you base the statement that "the facts are that MagSafe's are your best bet in the home"? I go with MagSafe's in the home because I have 4 kids and a wife (and two dogs). Everyone is spread out all over the house in different bedrooms. I'm a good shot but I've never been in a situation where I've actually had to discharge a firearm in a life or death, limited visibility scenario...so I'm assuming I will miss, and so should you. No matter how hard you train, you can't duplicate this scenario, and the never ending example of f*cked up police firefights where they expend dozens of rounds and miss is a good illustration. The hollow points I've fired at the range penetrated 1/2" plywood with virtually no expansion. When I've fired them at other rigid/semi rigid material (sheets of cardboard, particle board, etc). its the same thing. They still overpenetrate on rigid material. A pre-fragmented projectile is designed to break apart on rigid material. I don't want a miss to go through a wall and kill one of my kids...imagine trying to live with that (you can't). Ammo selection is always a compromise and is always based on the situation. Is a Hydrashock a better manstopper than a MagSafe? Probably, but you need to weigh in the rest of the scenario and overpenetration of rounds in a house full of kids is simply not an option. At something like $2 a ROUND these things are extremely expensive but you can't put a price on the safety of your family. If you have some good research on expansion and energy loss of hollowpoints in rigid material that contradicts my own findings lay it on me. If you are a single guy out in the country, disregard all the above and get a pump shootgun with #0...this is your best home defense setup. This is a long reply and I'll defend my 115g FMJ comment in another post. So you're saying you have no RESEARCH to base your conclusion off of, just anecdotal evidence (ie your own perceived interpretations from a non-scientific test at the range, which proved your bias) and your emotions? tomato What kind of birdshot do you recommend for those of us who use shotguns for home defense? I'm thinking some #6 would do, am I on the right track? |
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Quoted:If you have kids, get the lightest target loads out there...2 3/4", 1 oz, #8. You will greatly reduce the chance of overpenetration with the light loads. Once you loudly rack the slide an intruder in your house will flee in terror, and if they don't I would NOT want to get hit with a target load inside of 30'...with a cylinder bore or police bore choke you should get good spread inside of 30'. If you live alone, then I'd go with #0 Buck with a hunting load.
No way. This guy is totally trolling you all. He has to be. |
Some of you guys and your stacked mags and/or "buy bulk 115gr FMJ's" are funny.
Dont limit yourself to FMJ's with all the different types of HP ammo out there. That is kind of like picking the fugle street walking whore over the complete babe of an escort to save $5. I've got the Win Ranger 124gr +P+ in my Sig226. I reload 9mm Luger using a med-hot powder charge and use 124gr FMJ's to practice with. |
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Quoted: ??? I'm new to arfcom but not new to guns/shooting/self defense. I've been doing it my whole life. Not sure what you mean...and if you disagree tell me why.Quoted:If you have kids, get the lightest target loads out there...2 3/4", 1 oz, #8. You will greatly reduce the chance of overpenetration with the light loads. Once you loudly rack the slide an intruder in your house will flee in terror, and if they don't I would NOT want to get hit with a target load inside of 30'...with a cylinder bore or police bore choke you should get good spread inside of 30'. If you live alone, then I'd go with #0 Buck with a hunting load. No way. This guy is totally trolling you all. He has to be. |
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Quoted:
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??? I'm new to arfcom but not new to guns/shooting/self defense. I've been doing it my whole life. Not sure what you mean...and if you disagree tell me why.
Quoted:If you have kids, get the lightest target loads out there...2 3/4", 1 oz, #8. You will greatly reduce the chance of overpenetration with the light loads. Once you loudly rack the slide an intruder in your house will flee in terror, and if they don't I would NOT want to get hit with a target load inside of 30'...with a cylinder bore or police bore choke you should get good spread inside of 30'. If you live alone, then I'd go with #0 Buck with a hunting load.
No way. This guy is totally trolling you all. He has to be. It's just...well, you've hit upon every single gun myth and legend out there in only 2 or 3 posts. If I were going to intentionally lead people on as a joke, I'd have typed exactly what you did. I'll make a serious question though, assuming that you're actually being serious –– do you really want to shoot a person with a load that won't even penetrate a layer of sheetrock?? What kind of good sense does that make? |
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Quoted: Business sucks, and I'd rather debate Belgium style wheat beers, but here I am. No, I'm serious, I wish I was smart enough to lead people on. Sometimes I can't lead my dog on a leash. Anyway...Quoted: Quoted: ??? I'm new to arfcom but not new to guns/shooting/self defense. I've been doing it my whole life. Not sure what you mean...and if you disagree tell me why.Quoted:If you have kids, get the lightest target loads out there...2 3/4", 1 oz, #8. You will greatly reduce the chance of overpenetration with the light loads. Once you loudly rack the slide an intruder in your house will flee in terror, and if they don't I would NOT want to get hit with a target load inside of 30'...with a cylinder bore or police bore choke you should get good spread inside of 30'. If you live alone, then I'd go with #0 Buck with a hunting load. No way. This guy is totally trolling you all. He has to be. It's just...well, you've hit upon every single gun myth and legend out there in only 2 or 3 posts. If I were going to intentionally lead people on as a joke, I'd have typed exactly what you did. I'll make a serious question though, assuming that you're actually being serious –– do you really want to shoot a person with a load that won't even penetrate a layer of sheetrock?? What kind of good sense does that make? Remember, the scenario is a house full of kids, its dark, and you're scared sh*tless. I havn't done any kind of test on birdshot but it will definately put a world of hurt on someone inside 30'. I want a round that will incapacitate an intruder WITHOUT going through walls. You don't want your shot to go through walls and hurt one of your kids...hell, if there was even a chance of that I'd just grab a baseball bat knowing that I'd definately get a swing or two in before I dropped from being shot. Cheyney just about killed his hunting buddy with a bird load, so I'd bet there is enough power at close range to penetrate and disable the intruder. I think a target load leaves the muzzle at around 1,100 fps. That will penetrate. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:If you have kids, get the lightest target loads out there...2 3/4", 1 oz, #8. You will greatly reduce the chance of overpenetration with the light loads. Once you loudly rack the slide an intruder in your house will flee in terror, and if they don't I would NOT want to get hit with a target load inside of 30'...with a cylinder bore or police bore choke you should get good spread inside of 30'. If you live alone, then I'd go with #0 Buck with a hunting load.
No way. This guy is totally trolling you all. He has to be. I rest my case this dude was taking Zhkov to task up above you can't make up shit this funny needs to throw in some tumbling M16 bullets FTW |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I probably forgot more about this topic than you currently know. Please don't condescend another person's opinion without facts. And the facts are that MagSafe's are your best bet in the home and the 115FMJ has been executing its mission efficiently since the early 20th century. Sorry I don't subscribe to the politically correct handgun crowd.
Quoted:
http://media.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=1213
Depends what kind of self defense. For your HOME, the only ammo you should be thinking about is MagSafe pre-fragmented. The hollow points will NOT expand and lose energy going through wall board and you run the risk of injuring someone else in your home, or the round goes through your home and hurts someone in a nearby house. All very possible with hollow points.
For STREET DEFENSE, go with whatever ammo you can afford to buy inBULK, practice with, and ensure feed and function in your weapon. Forme, its American Eagle 115g FMJ. Not as tricked out as the other roundsbut remember a couple things: 1. The ODDS of you ever having to even need a handgun are extremely low, and: 2. The mere APPEARANCE of a gun will deter virtually any assault. So,what we are talking about is hitting the lottery in a bad sense.Really, the 115g FMJ will get the job done no problem. I've thankfullynever had to shoot at a person and hope to never have to, but from allthe range work I've done with my inexpensive and utterly reliable AEloads I have complete confidence that a torso hit anywhere ends theengagement. Your post contains so many errors it's not even funny. Please don't give advice to people about something you knwo nothing about. I REALLY think not. 
"politically correct handgun crowd" WTF are you talking about
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Dude, there is no emotion at all in my posts. And, all the studies I've seen done on penetration are all tissue based studies. That's not what were talking about; we're talking about 9mm hollow point overpenetration in rigid material. The prefragmented round is the gold standard...its is used by pilots and airmarshals today. I don't have the money to run a full out, double blind placebo controlled study...I shot hollow points through various rigid material and went through easily. I was trying to duplicate a round going through a conventional 2x4 stud wall with plywood or wall board.
Now I'm certain you're making all of this up. Air Marshals and FFDOs don't use any kind of frangible ammunition. You are just repeating a rumor or something you heard on the internet or somewhere else, which was in turn fueled by the scene in Goldfinger where he gets sucked out of the plane window. Granted, it was a pretty cool scene, but it was nothing but fiction. FAMS and FFDOs use JHPs, just like everyone else. Your statements regarding the 9mm hardball are equally bewildering, as they have proven to be a very inferior manstopper through the experiences of our servicemen in the Iraq/Afghanistan fronts. The reason FMJs don't expand after going through wood or fiberboard is that a little piece of wood gets lodged in the cavity and prevents expansion. You're doing a great disservice to someone that is looking for sound advice on what round to use to defend himself and his family. Please stop. |
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Quoted: Dude, there is no emotion at all in my posts. And, all the studies I've seen done on penetration are all tissue based studies. That's not what were talking about; we're talking about 9mm hollow point overpenetration in rigid material. The prefragmented round is the gold standard...its is used by pilots and airmarshals today. I don't have the money to run a full out, double blind placebo controlled study...I shot hollow points through various rigid material and went through easily. I was trying to duplicate a round going through a conventional 2x4 stud wall with plywood or wall board. Now I'm certain you're making all of this up. Air Marshals and FFDOs don't use any kind of frangible ammunition. You are just repeating a rumor or something you heard on the internet or somewhere else, which was in turn fueled by the scene in Goldfinger where he gets sucked out of the plane window. Granted, it was a pretty cool scene, but it was nothing but fiction. FAMS and FFDOs use JHPs, just like everyone else. Your statements regarding the 9mm hardball are equally bewildering, as they have proven to be a very inferior manstopper through the experiences of our servicemen in the Iraq/Afghanistan fronts. The reason FMJs don't expand after going through wood or fiberboard is that a little piece of wood gets lodged in the cavity and prevents expansion. You're doing a great disservice to someone that is looking for sound advice on what round to use to defend himself and his family. Please stop. Please learn. I'll get back to the 115FMJ as soon as we clear up the MagSafe post. The point using the prefragmented round was to minimize the risk of an overpenetrating miss killing one of your kids. Frankly, I don't see how you can disagree with this. As far as pilots and airmarshals using them, that's what I heard, and if that is indeed not the case I stand corrected. Your point that "the reason FMJ's (you meant HP's) don't expand after going through..." is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. You don't want your HP's to go through walls and kill one of your kids. The guy is looking for advice on loads. If we are talking defense in the home, then the prefrag is the way to go. |
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Quoted:
Dude, there is no emotion at all in my posts. And, all the studies I've seen done on penetration are all tissue based studies. That's not what were talking about; we're talking about 9mm hollow point overpenetration in rigid material. The prefragmented round is the gold standard...its is used by pilots and airmarshals today. I don't have the money to run a full out, double blind placebo controlled study...I shot hollow points through various rigid material and went through easily. I was trying to duplicate a round going through a conventional 2x4 stud wall with plywood or wall board. Now I'm certain you're making all of this up. Air Marshals and FFDOs don't use any kind of frangible ammunition. You are just repeating a rumor or something you heard on the internet or somewhere else, which was in turn fueled by the scene in Goldfinger where he gets sucked out of the plane window. Granted, it was a pretty cool scene, but it was nothing but fiction. FAMS and FFDOs use JHPs, just like everyone else. Your statements regarding the 9mm hardball are equally bewildering, as they have proven to be a very inferior manstopper through the experiences of our servicemen in the Iraq/Afghanistan fronts. The reason FMJs don't expand after going through wood or fiberboard is that a little piece of wood gets lodged in the cavity and prevents expansion. You're doing a great disservice to someone that is looking for sound advice on what round to use to defend himself and his family. Please stop. Especially since he FORGOT that military 9mm hardball is 124 grains, not 115 grains. 
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Quoted: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Can I condescend on tomatoe_tosser? He has to be a troll, everything he says is off the wall and stupid. And his screen name... tomato_thrower? Come on, he is someone's troll account. Anyway, with a 9mm I stick to 124 grain Hydro-shock. Are you really Airborne? Can I condescend you? Nah, I'm ex USMC an I'll leave that stuff to the Army. And I'll take my 115FMJ over your Hydro-shock if the target is in cover or is lightly armored. |