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Posted: 12/21/2001 9:23:55 AM EDT
You guys remember that movie where there are a few snipers using ammo where the bullet is made of ice? One sniper killed a Congressman or something and they framed the other sniper of doing it. I forget who was the actor, but that got me thinking. Is it possible to make a bullet out of some sort of ice?
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 9:27:53 AM EDT
Well, you COULD cast ice in the exact shape of a bulet. Keeping it from melting if not vaporizing during that screaming trip down the barrel propelled by the hot gas made by the burning powder is another thing.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 9:28:45 AM EDT
If you froze distilled, degassed water so as to get the densest andmost uniform ice and then launched it from a CO2 or other compressed gas gun, with the gun barrel itself kept at or below 32F, I guess it would work. I would go with a smoothbore and the most frictionless bore available. If you tried to make the ice engage rifling the friction would simply make the outer layer of the bullet melt until the slug became undersized.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 9:29:16 AM EDT
Most Wanted [url]http://us.imdb.com/Title?0119709 [/url] But, the first movie to suggest this was "Three days of the Condor" with robert Redford. To this day, my old college roommate and I disagree about wether or not the "mailman" has .45 "ice" bullets in this Mac10.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 9:34:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 9:57:30 AM EDT
Perhaps they could loaded into some sort of discarding sabot.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 9:58:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul: Banned in California - don't worry about it.
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LOL I heard that only Diane Fienswine could legally own these...since she is the ice queen and all. sgtar15
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 10:29:37 AM EDT
Dont you have one? Mine is sitting next to my ceramic/polymer Glock in the safe. I also fixed my fridge so it dispenses ice cubes by calibur. [:)]
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 10:35:08 AM EDT
Wouldn't a bullet made from compressed, coagulated blood accomplish the same task w/o the temperature issues? Any forensic team would just pass the clot off as being from the victim's own wound.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 11:10:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BenDover: Wouldn't a bullet made from compressed, coagulated blood accomplish the same task w/o the temperature issues? Any forensic team would just pass the clot off as being from the victim's own wound.
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That's fucking nasty.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 11:14:07 AM EDT
I dunno about a normal firearm, but a blowgun might be able to use ice projectiles.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 11:19:16 AM EDT
For water, use a high salt content water. It takes longer to freeze and this to melt also. Then put a nuce cussion on the bottom it to keep it from direct contact of the expanding gasses. Probably something in the line of the Russian "silent bullet" where there is a bullet in the shell and the Ice bullet would be the outer part. After the primer is struck, the inner bullet moves forward, but in this example, the inner bullet would push the ice bullet out the barrel as well as creating a seal from any expanding gasses, keeping the ice from melting. but that's just off the top of my head... BISHOP
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 11:26:47 AM EDT
Remember "Piecrete"? In WWII, there was a scientist who made a form of concrete out of ice and sawdust. He wanted the navy to build huge floating battleships/carriers out of it. If you took this approach ot the ice bullet, you might just get a bullet that could survive the barrel and hit the target.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 1:48:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Redmanfms:
Originally Posted By BenDover: Wouldn't a bullet made from compressed, coagulated blood accomplish the same task w/o the temperature issues? Any forensic team would just pass the clot off as being from the victim's own wound.
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That's fucking nasty.
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[:D] Why thank you. I pride myself in such vulgarities.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 2:04:03 PM EDT
These would have to be BIG bullets in order not to melt in flight and be effective. Water isn't very dense and ice even less so. Its also brittle and probably will not take rifling well. Give it up, its another "mercury bullet" story.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 2:04:04 PM EDT
Of course, the entire purpose would be to avoid ballistic fingerprinting of the bullet; which would be silly, unless ice projectile firing guns were common. And I think it would, at least, need a special gun to fire.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 2:10:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 2:13:48 PM EDT
Hmmmmmmmmmmm. 1.5 inch SPUD GUN with ice round... Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 2:31:53 PM EDT
thinking dry ice would work better
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 2:38:12 PM EDT
You forgot the friction with the air. That alone would melt Ice pretty quickly
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 2:56:38 PM EDT
i prefer rock salt.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 3:23:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By PezMaster: You forgot the friction with the air. That alone would melt Ice pretty quickly
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It wouldn't matter with a high-mass, low-velocity round like you get with a potato gun. I'm making a round now. Will get back to y'all tomorrow.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 4:40:32 PM EDT
To be perfectly serious for a moment about a potentially serious subject I have heard but have not been able to confirm the following: "The dem's are working feverishly to complete a "Dirty-Ice-Bullet." I'm told by a "formerly reliable but unnamed source" that much of the work is occuring at Harvard in the School of Peace. Finally - solid, solid rumor here - the dem's will make their "Dirty-Ice-Bullet" from ten-day old "Hillary PISS." (Now for the possible good news; Ex clinton "may" be used as sen, hillary's test target.) Strangely the ACLU is rumored to be moving toward a court confrontation as a completed and tested "Dirty-Ice-from-Aged-Hilliary-Piss-Bullet" is believed to conform to all UN regulations for use on Americans.......
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 5:02:42 PM EDT
I'm surprised they still let ya'll watch movies like that in CA. I see no benefit "for the children" in those types of movies.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 5:15:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ponyboy: I'm surprised they still let ya'll watch movies like that in CA. I see no benefit "for the children" in those types of movies.
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_______________________________________________ HorseGuy, very, very perceptive of you to make the "California Catch." Due to the inherent secrecy of this project you couldn't have known but the so-called "California Model Ice-Bullet" will be made from "Homosexual Urine." (CMIB-HU) Possibly Cong. Barney Frank will provide the material for the California projectile. Te hard-working folks at Harvard believe the above actions will satisfy even California's stringent educational requirements.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 5:49:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul: Banned in California - don't worry about it.
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[kill] Paul, you kill me man!!![:D]
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 8:12:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By akira: Dont you have one? Mine is sitting next to my ceramic/polymer Glock in the safe. I also fixed my fridge so it dispenses ice cubes by calibur. [:)]
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I took a new acquaintance to the gun range yesterday to shoot a SIG, Glock and a Kimber. He loved the Kimber but what caught my attention was when I brought the Glock out. He said, "Oh yeah, a Glock...one of those ceramic pistols you can take through an airport without being detected..." I educated him a little bit. He seemed surprised that there was any metal at all in the Glock. His dad is a Democrat...not sure where he stands but at least he had an open mind & decided to try out some guns. He left stating that his first gun would be a Kimber...cool!
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 8:15:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By akira: Dont you have one? Mine is sitting next to my ceramic/polymer Glock in the safe. I also fixed my fridge so it dispenses ice cubes by calibur. [:)]
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That's calibrrrrrrr.... [:)]
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 9:30:33 PM EDT
OK, OK. I give up. You guys are killing me!!! LOL. The reason I asked this question was I first wanted to know what the movie was called. IIRC, it was an OK movie. I think I'm going to rent it again. That would be nice if someone could develop them. Of course they'll be banned in CA, but not if it's made out of Hitlery piss (what's up with you and piss???? LOL). Anyway, you bastards crack me up. Every single post has something funny in it. Damn comedians, you will be banned in CA one of these days...
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 7:24:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE: Remember "Piecrete"? In WWII, there was a scientist who made a form of concrete out of ice and sawdust. He wanted the navy to build huge floating battleships/carriers out of it. If you took this approach ot the ice bullet, you might just get a bullet that could survive the barrel and hit the target.
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This would probably work but it would be a short ranged weapon only. And avoid shooting through glass.
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 8:28:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Kalifornia: Of course they'll be banned in CA, but not if it's made out of Hitlery piss...
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Kalifornia, sorry to issue a correction so soon but it is widely believed that the "Projectile, Hitlary-piss, Frozen (Exp.) (PHPPF Exp) will only meet the 49 state requirement. Your home state of Kal has even more stringent requirements due to their planned usage of the "49 state projectile" to show sexual bias to the kindergarten classes. Here on AR15.com you learn for the first time that the "approved Callifornia approved model" will contain homosexual piss from Cong Barney Frank !! Much of this fine work on the Kal. model has been done at the Harvard School of Divinity. Any way the Kal. approved "Dirty Ice Bullet" will be designated the "Projectile, Homosexual Piss, Frozen-Kal-approved" or PHPF-Kal-App. It is widely believed that with the 49 state model and the Kal approved model each state's requirement for a politically correct "Piss Projectile" will have been met or exceeded.
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 10:37:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2001 10:30:19 AM EDT by California_Kid]
A qualified SUCCESS! I made an ice cylinder about 3 inches long using a piece of 1.5" PVC pipe as a mold. The mold expanded in diameter as the water froze, so I had to partly melt it to get it to load in my spud gun of the same caliber. Fired test round with 100 PSI air. (Gun is rated at 150.) The round went very straight and disintegrated with a loud "thud" when it hit a plywood target. I think a spitzer-pointed round fired at 150 PSI might have done some penetration. More research is required.
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 11:03:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BenDover: Wouldn't a bullet made from compressed, coagulated blood accomplish the same task w/o the temperature issues? Any forensic team would just pass the clot off as being from the victim's own wound.
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One word: DNA testing.
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 11:18:13 AM EDT
If you want to remove any possible trace on a projectile, why not use pure sodium or potassium with a light oil coat or maybe moly coat it? Molding it would be a pain in the ass, but it would work quite well. Sodium is softer than lead, so it should be nasty when it hits and it will practically explode on impact when all that soft sodium/potassium hits it's intended target, which is composed mostly of water. Rifling marks would be all but obliterated as soon as the projectile burns itself into nothingness. Thoughts?
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 11:21:08 AM EDT
For that matter, why not wrap a smaller bullet calibur in the same said material? Just think, a bullet would be present and it would be in the wound channel surrounded by burnt flesh. That would drive the investigators nuts for certain...
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 12:59:52 PM EDT
Has anyone ever been convicted from just the rifling marks alone? Sounds like a good movie.
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 1:19:08 PM EDT
Another one word.........Sabot
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 2:12:19 PM EDT
My another word....buckshot
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 6:59:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 7:35:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sweep: I forget what temp. nitrogen becomes solid, I know it's around -319 degrees F it becomes liquid. I would imagine that it would be some where in the range of -450 F to -500 F it becomes solid. If a bullet could be cast out of solid nitrogen instead of water, I wonder if enough of the bullet would survive the trip? Of course this would be very expensive to do! It's hard enough to obtian liquid nitrogen much less find some place that could produce solid nitrogen. Hell, I'm not even sure how you could produce solid nitrogen. Liquid, that's easy, solid, ain't got a clue!
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You can't get any colder than -459 degrees Fahrenheit because that is absolute zero, the point at which all molecular motion stops.
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 7:49:40 PM EDT
If the bbl was rifled at all the rotational spin would make an ice bullet disintegrate all by its self let alone friction from the bbl or the air. Don't forget that bullets spin at tremendous velocities.
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 8:04:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Repete: Another one word.........Sabot
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That was my thinking...
Link Posted: 12/22/2001 8:09:39 PM EDT
Maybe a bigger projectile, something the size of a brick, perhaps, launched using compressed air. Maybe a three or four inch diameter tube lined with teflon or something to minimize the ice from sticking to the chamber. With that amount of mass, I would think enough of the ice would survive to hit the target. or A catapault that flings 25 lb ice blocks, or a spherical piece of ice that size. or A large "slingshot" using a car tire innertube that would launch ice the same size as a baseball. By casting your own spheres, you should reach a certain level of consistency in terms of weight and flight characteristics.
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