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Posted: 12/19/2001 7:59:04 PM EDT
Hi, I am kinda clueless about NFA stuff but I know that there are 2 legal ways to get an M-16, with a registered DIAS or a registered receiver. So how does a registered DIAS work? Can you use the ones they advertise for $200 in shotgun news?
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 8:03:56 PM EDT
About the only thing the $200 ones in SGN are good for is making you the captain of the butt pirate brigade in the fed pen. If you buy one, be sure to stock up on cigs and vaseline.
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 8:08:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shaggy: About the only thing the $200 ones in SGN are good for is making you the captain of the butt pirate brigade in the fed pen. If you buy one, be sure to stock up on cigs and vaseline.
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... not if he doesn't own/possess an AR15
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 8:10:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
Originally Posted By shaggy: About the only thing the $200 ones in SGN are good for is making you the captain of the butt pirate brigade in the fed pen. If you buy one, be sure to stock up on cigs and vaseline.
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... not if he doesn't own/possess an AR15
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... or if he doesn't have a butt
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 8:11:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 8:21:50 PM EDT
It's really easy, you don't pay $2,500 for one, you get the cheap ones in Shotgun News for $200. They do more than the expensive ones. You buy one, drop it into your AR, go full auto. The neighbors call complaining about the noise. The BATF comes to your house, you get free meals and lodging for 10-years, PLUS a girlfriend named BUBBA who will never leave you. Amazing what the $200 Shotgun News DIAS will do for you. (get it?)
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 8:29:58 PM EDT
Does anyone have a straight answer to the question?
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 8:36:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf: ... not if he doesn't own/possess an AR15
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again; read [i]US v. Cash[/i] carefully. In the 7th US Circuit, possession of just an unregistered DIAS, whether pre-81 or not, will land you with a conviction for possession of an unregiustered MG. Judge Easterbrook's logic is solid, and when/if the issue ever hits another circuit, they'll read Cash and decide the same way - you can bet your ass on it.
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 8:37:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2001 8:32:03 PM EDT by dragracerart]
Originally Posted By Confederate: Does anyone have a straight answer to the question?
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It's a "drop in" substitute for the original M16 auto sear... It requires all the FA trigger group... You can use it in an "unmodified" semi auto receiver... Otherwise, to use the M16 autosear, you'd hafta mill & drill the receiver...THAT IS ILLEGAL, unless you are a class3 mfg, making a post-sample... Shaggy, am I right ? (been doing my homework) *edited cuz keyboard batteries are going dead
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 8:39:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 8:44:46 PM EDT
Here's a dumb question.... I know of the RDIAS's, Lightning links, and Registered Receivers, but is there such a thing as a "registered" sear...Identical in shape, and design as the original M16 design ???(requiring milling and drilling to install)
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 9:12:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 10:37:04 PM EDT
DIAS are like flux capacitors for guns and because they are key in defeating evil, the spawn of satan do not want you to own the devices.
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 11:03:48 PM EDT
Assumeing your a law biding citizen and all, and have all proper tax stamps and licenses to own one; you "Drop" it in behind the selector, under the rear take down pin, the upper reciever's rear lug then fits into place when closed back down, upper held in by the take down pin, dias held in by the upper, this acts as a temporary or removable auto sear without haveing to drill nasty holes into the gun. The lack of reliabilty is scary. I have legally used full auto 9mm, .223, and even .22 conv. rifles that were assisted by the DIAS and i hate them. My opinion, just legally obtain a full auto that has the sear installed the typical way.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 3:46:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By shaggy:
Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf: ... not if he doesn't own/possess an AR15
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again; read [i]US v. Cash[/i] carefully. In the 7th US Circuit, possession of just an unregistered DIAS, whether pre-81 or not, will land you with a conviction for possession of an unregiustered MG. Judge Easterbrook's logic is solid, and when/if the issue ever hits another circuit, they'll read Cash and decide the same way - you can bet your ass on it.
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... Cash [b]POSSESSED[/b] an AR15 !!! If your logic were true, why doesn't ATF sack the outfit in SGN that sells 'em. ... No way a piece of sheetmetal fashioned into a LL will get you time. [u]Unless[/u] you possess an AR15 (which pretty much eliminates readers here)
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 4:28:22 AM EDT
ok, heres my interpretation. the DIAS you see in SGN is to be held on hand as a REPLACEMENT for a registered dias only, if you also have an REGISTERED AR-15 conversion on hand. if you have an semi ar-15 and a DIAS, you have a MG in violation of the imperial laws. if you don't have a AR-15, you can own all the DIAS's you want, no laws broken. it's cheaper to get a DIAS and make yore own MG but if you get caught, you are F*CKED. if you want to get into FA and legally can in yore state (not PRNY, KALI, PRNJ, PRMD, etc.) spend the x-tra money and get a real MG. this way you cant go wrong. or you can risk getting a visit from the JBT's to make a stand against the imperial laws of this kingdom. (like so many are right now.)
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 4:29:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf: If your logic were true, why doesn't ATF sack the outfit in SGN that sells 'em.
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maby they are an atf sting operation.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 4:35:20 AM EDT
Winston - The fact that Cash had an AR15 was completely irrelevant to the decision. The court determined that although BATF had the authority to determine whether a DIAS was a machinegun or not, BATF did not have the authority to exempt some DIAS's from registration based upon their date of manufacture. From the decision: [b]But nothing in the firearms statutes gives the Secretary of the Treasury (or the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms) the power to make exemptions to section 5845(b) and associated legal obligations. The statute to which ATF Ruling 81-4 refers, 26 U.S.C. section 7805(b), provides that the Secretary cannot give retroactive application to tax regulations and adds in section 7805(b)(8) that the "Secretary may prescribe the extent, if any, to which any ruling (including any judicial decision or any administrative determination other than by regulation) relating to the internal revenue laws shall be applied without retroactive effect."[/b] Thus, according to the court, a DIAS is in itself a machinegun. It is either registered or not, and if not registered, its contraband. The 1981 date is relevant only for purposes of a tax free registration; if you had a pre-81 sear you could have registered it without paying the $200 making tax if you did so prior to May 1986 when all civilian registrations of new MGs was cut off bu 922(o). I suspect one reason BATF has not pushed this as hard as they could in other jurisdictions is that to some degree Cash was a loss for BATF too. Their own rule regarding DIAS's got shot down by the federal court in favor of a more strict rule. It not only makes more work for BATF, especially when you consider the implications with semiauto open bolt guns, but they also lost face and got scolded by the court. The other reason is either (a)that BATF feels sorry for the guys who have stockpiled unregistered DIAS's and sell them in SGN and are just being really nice and looking the other way while they give them a chance to unload their inventory, or (b)they're compiling a list to track down later (now which do you think is more likely?).
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 4:35:51 AM EDT
Convicted DIAS owner goes to prison - Lands in a dark cell with Bubba - After several minutes of tense silence, Bubba says to DIAS: 'Well, do you wanna be the husband, or the wife?' 'I-I-I suppose I'll be the husband', DIAS stammers. Whereupon Bubba shouts at DIAS: 'Good! Now get over here and suck your wife's !' Eric The(DidYouGetThePicture?)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 4:52:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art: It's a "drop in" substitute for the original M16 auto sear... It requires all the FA trigger group... You can use it in an "unmodified" semi auto receiver... Otherwise, to use the M16 autosear, you'd hafta mill & drill the receiver...THAT IS ILLEGAL, unless you are a class3 mfg, making a post-sample... Shaggy, am I right ? (been doing my homework) *edited cuz keyboard batteries are going dead
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Art, you're dead on. And to answer your other question, the reason there is no such animal as a registered (pinned in) sear that requires the milling and drilling, is because you'd have to "make" another MG to use such a sear. The sear itself would be one MG, but to install it, you'd need to mill and drill the lower which would make the lower into a MG also. It would be the same as making a registered receiver gun, except that once the lower was milled and drilled, you could never remove the sear and sell it seperate. Back in the 1986, BATF found out about a few AK conversions that used a "registered sear" to convert to full auto. However, because the receiver needed to be permanently modified to accept the sear (like a GI type auto sear in an M16), BATF later disallowed that type of conversion.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 8:32:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 50cali:
Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
Originally Posted By shaggy: About the only thing the $200 ones in SGN are good for is making you the captain of the butt pirate brigade in the fed pen. If you buy one, be sure to stock up on cigs and vaseline.
View Quote
... not if he doesn't own/possess an AR15
View Quote
... or if he doesn't have a butt
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My point exactly!
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 8:37:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Armed_Scientist: Hi, I am kinda clueless about NFA stuff but I know that there are 2 legal ways to get an M-16, with a registered DIAS or a registered receiver. So how does a registered DIAS work? Can you use the ones they advertise for $200 in shotgun news?
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Dual Armed, DIAS, as you can tell by the posts, are the most treacherous items known to man - excluding women of course. Just the damn thought of one scares me. The BATFolk use the DIAS to teach entrapment "100" -the remedial course. (See posts regarding "Shotgun News") subguns won't allow the posting of a DIAS. Just a quick look at values, Machine Guns in general continue to escalate. Converted guns (FN FNC's as an example) continue to increase in value but not as rapidly as original factory machine guns. I don't have a clue as to where DIAS guns fit or even if they do. I'm sure there's probably some out there but I don't have personal knowledge of any gun where all you have to do is drop-in the DIAS and have a correctly functioning select-fire gun ?? (Can the idiotic, politically built, dead-end, Space SHUTTLE and complete the Single-Stage-to-Orbit vehicle.) (And yes let's get on to Mars .....or Europa.)
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 10:23:56 AM EDT
There is a site called www.wetworx.com which shows them in great detail and explains their function....problem is that the last few times i've gone there the page was not available...maybe you'll have better luck.....Dick
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 12:01:34 PM EDT
Okay, so DIASs are obviously not a good way to go class III. Thanx for all the info I will definetly steer clear of them.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 5:13:21 PM EDT
They are too busy right now confiscating the MK-S welded M14 receivers.
Originally Posted By the_survivalist:
Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf: If your logic were true, why doesn't ATF sack the outfit in SGN that sells 'em.
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maby they are an atf sting operation.
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