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Posted: 12/19/2001 4:53:47 PM EDT
I went shooting today (southern CA) and after a couple hours, two guys arrived with a bunch of guns. Normally, this doesn't make me flinch, but when I saw one of them pull out a suppressed AR-15, that got me thinking. At first I thought they were LEOs, but they didn't look like SWAT or patrol guys, and they weren't in uniform, or even driving a government car. They pulled up in a Suburban and looked like regular guys. Interesting was that they had what looked like four of the same bolt action rifle, and even had a suppressor for those. So here I am, thinking what the hell is up... The range officers didn't give them any flak about anything, and even seemed like they knew them. So after a few minutes passes, they whip out the AR-15 and empty a couple of 30 round mags, some suppressed others not. They got a jam, and after cleaning and oiling the gun (they claimed this is why it jammed... hmm), emptied a few more mags. Obviously I was drooling, but still wondering what the hell was up. What really sticks in my mind was that after they were done with the AR, I see one of them split the receivers, and pull out a DIAS. WTF? Why would a LEO use a DIAS? And after he pulled it out, he shoved it into his pocket real quick. Another weird thing is that they weren't really obeying the range rules, with respect to wearing eye and ear protection all the time. They didn't get yelled at for this at all , even though normally people are crucified for doing what they did. Hence, another reason they could have been LEOs since they seemed to have a different set of rules. Now I know that these guys could have been Class III dealers or even regular owners, but how common is that in CA (not heard of really)? They *may* have been LEOs, but then again, they didn't look like it, and they were using a DIAS, not an M16. For anyone that will try to attack me and say that I should shut up and not worry, don't even bother. I have no problem with these guys as long as they aren't hurting anyone. I still think that they should have let people fire a few rounds through that AR. Selfish bastards![V] Guess I have to go to Vegas and rent a FA now.[:(] Interesting day indeed though...
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 4:58:15 PM EDT
You shoulda asked em tactfully what was up with the toys. I would've. I'm just curious like that.
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 4:59:06 PM EDT
NFA guys get a lot of respect at my range too, since everybody thinks that anybody with a machine gun or suppressor always knows of a signer who'd get you one too. No such luck here anyway.
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 5:13:06 PM EDT
They could have been testing out a new dias they made and even testing out new supressors they built. Probably SOT.
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 6:07:48 PM EDT
They could have been movie prop technicians too. All the firearms laws in Kommiefornia have an exemption for the movie industry.
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 6:11:13 PM EDT
They could have been shooting illegal unregistered machineguns will illegal unregistered suppressors. Maybe the range is in on the deal and lets them try out their new stuff for free. And the cracking down really hard on everyone else is just a facade for their illegal Taliban arms smuggling trade. (this is what some of yall really wanted to hear wasn't it?)
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 6:23:37 PM EDT
Please ignore it and don't mention it again. cpermd
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 6:58:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cpermd: Please ignore it and don't mention it again. cpermd
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MANY, many LEOs fequent this range, and as a matter of fact, I saw over a dozen squad cars drive past the range we were shooting at on their way to the police range that is also on the property. Actually, just as I was leaving, one stopped by that particular range, while the guys were still there, so its not like I let out a secret. Allow me to make this clear, I am not wondering if they were doing anything illegal, I doubt they'd have been so public about it. What I'm wondering is who were they/how did they get those things, etc.
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 7:13:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DnPRK: They could have been movie prop technicians too. All the firearms laws in Kommiefornia have an exemption for the movie industry.
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This probably the most likely answer. Even the prop guys need to test a firearm made for a movie / TV show to make sure everything works.
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 7:16:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BigPig: MANY, many LEOs fequent this range, and as a matter of fact, I saw over a dozen squad cars drive past the range we were shooting at on their way to the police range that is also on the property. Actually, just as I was leaving, one stopped by that particular range, while the guys were still there, so its not like I let out a secret. Allow me to make this clear, I am not wondering if they were doing anything illegal, I doubt they'd have been so public about it. What I'm wondering is who were they/how did they get those things, etc.
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You know what they say....The best place to hide something is out in the open! What a better place to hide illegal unregistered machineguns than to shoot them right in front of the police! It is a brilliant idea! (in case you didn't know, I'm joking)[;)]
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 7:22:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Pthfndr:
Originally Posted By DnPRK: They could have been movie prop technicians too. All the firearms laws in Kommiefornia have an exemption for the movie industry.
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This probably the most likely answer. Even the prop guys need to test a firearm made for a movie / TV show to make sure everything works.
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This theory actually seems least likely to me. If they were movie prop people testing movie prop guns they could do it at the studio as all movie prop guns are made to fire blanks. Here in AZ that senario is typical and really wouldnt grab much attention. John
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 7:45:58 PM EDT
Not to question your story here but I know alot of LEO's in Ca. and dont know of any that can just go to the range with any thing they want. Most So Cal. departments have their own ranges to do that kind of thing at. What county did this take place in, or city?
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 7:47:47 PM EDT
Come to our little range. We have alot of class 3.Not a big deal here .
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 11:15:20 PM EDT
This was at the Angeles Shooting Range which is in LA county, I THINK. The movie prop theory is possible, but probably not the case since, as mentioned, movie guns fire blanks. They weren't firing blanks, thats for sure. I can't believe they didn't let us all play with their toys. How dare them! [:(]
Link Posted: 12/19/2001 11:20:31 PM EDT
THere is a guy in N. CA that does movies too. I think his are real and have to test them out from time to time with not just blanks. But if they are movie prop guys, why need a real supressor? Maybe the full auto fire is disturbing to other people???? How dare they not let you guys have a little fun. If I was you, I'd just stare and stare until they ask me what the f)*& my problem is or until they ask if I want to shoot it.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 12:10:52 AM EDT
It was probably LEOs. I went to the same range a couple years ago with a DEA agent, and he brought his colt 9mm subgun. They didn't allow full auto firing but we shot a few bursts anyway. BTW, he wasn't in uniform and he brought his own car.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 12:25:31 AM EDT
The police should have been called.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 12:27:56 AM EDT
Now that I think about it, when I was a Marine Corps poolie, my recruiter took a bunch of poolies to an indoor target range in Van Nuys, and he brought some kind of M16 carbine (A1 i think). I think he got it from 2/23's armory at encino. It had a .22 conversion in it but I don't remember if we shot it full auto.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 1:01:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 11:05:03 AM EDT
I got $5 that says they were Federal agents. Possibly ATF. Ya see the Feds can tell the Caliban to go pound sand when it comes to weapons. This upsets Mullah Omar Lockyear, but he can't do a damn thing about it. MG
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 11:11:14 AM EDT
1. Did you see them actually shooting at something (on/or hitting it) 2. If it jams, it could be blanks- everybody knows how much fun the blank were in the army-dirty, underpowered, etc. could-and has-caused many a jam.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 11:36:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2001 11:32:34 AM EDT by BigPig]
Big_Bear, Yes, the Suburban was dark blue. I don't want to know who they were per se, just what they were. About the "Eagles Nest" I don't know what you're refering to. If thats the name of the range, then I've never paid attention. To answer the other question, to the best of my knowledge, they were shooting live ammo. I remember seeing dust get kicked up from the brume. I would have gotten a closer look, but they didn't seem like the friendliest guys around, so I decided to stay quiet and just watch. The more I think about, the more likely it seems that they were either some kind of LEOs (but why would a LEO use a DIAS?) or movie guys. Reason being is that they had at least four bolt actions, all the same (including scope, ammo pouch on the stock). Edited to add: I now remember that the cases were falling almost right next to them. I was shooting some weak PMC, and even those cases were ejecting about four feet back at four o'clock. The AR15 was probably a prop gun, but the bolt actions were real because the targets they were shooting at had holes in them. All of them had threaded barrels.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 11:52:33 AM EDT
[b]NOBODY can get a sound suppressor for a firearm legally in Californistan except the military[/b], and they have to stay on base. Not the cops, not movie studios, not even the handful of rich, famous, connected people who have been allowed by the Caliban to own machineguns!
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 12:01:24 PM EDT
PMI but WTF is a DIAS?
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 12:09:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 12:31:06 PM EDT
Hey Big_Bear, Here's one UR grad reporting in. Evertime I see a dark blue sub with dark tinted windows I look to see if there are a couple of trailer hitches mounted on each side of the vehicle. Remember those? AR BTW, did you ever get your certif's.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 12:34:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 12:40:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Skunkabilly: PMI but WTF is a DIAS?
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DIAS = Drop-In Automatic Sear (or Autosear in the vernacular): A mechanical device that converts an AR-15 that has M16 fire control parts (hammer, sear/disconnector, trigger, selector, and bolt carrier but no factory autosear) to selective-fire.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 12:40:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Big_Bear: 1)was the Suburban dark blue? 2)were they at Eagle's Nest? 3)I might know who these guys are. [;)] Any UR graduates reading this?
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[;)][;)][;)][;)] ok enough winking Maybe they were producers who also have exemptions to the laws.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 12:48:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2001 12:43:51 PM EDT by AR_in_the_woods]
UR1 was great! Missed UR2 due to a death in the family. I'm still waiting for my UR1 cert. I know it's being looked into so I won't fuss much until you guys have completed UR3 and still don't get your certs. I did have the pleasure of spending two days in Randy Cain's Carbine-I class a couple of weeks ago. 16 hours of fun and great training. Much more advanced the Scott's UR1 class so I wonder if old Scotty will let me into UR3 with the rest of you guys since I've had further training under one the best in the industry. [url]http://www.guntactics.com/page6.htm[/url] Randy's a very humble guy. Nothing haughty about him at all.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 12:53:07 PM EDT
Or, maybe they were confiscated weapons, which can be used for training. Or they were built for training. Odd, the UR guys would have worn ears and eyes.
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 12:55:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2001 12:55:25 PM EDT by California_Kid]
Originally Posted By Big_Bear: ... California_Kid, I don't believe that's correct. Movie guns have pretty much the same leeway in California as law enforcement and the military.
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I have to backpedal just a bit but stand by my statement that movie studios cannot have sound suppressors. Here's the main part of the Caliban Penal Code section that deals with sound suppressors: [b]12520. Any person, firm, or corporation who within this state possesses a silencer is guilty of a felony and upon conviction thereof shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison or by a fine not to exceed ten thousand dollars ($10,000) or by both.[/b] The only exceptions are in PC 12501, which says anyone who lawfully possesses one due to being in the military or an employee of the military is basically exempt from 12520. Also local police and county sheriffs as defined in PC 830.1. So I was wrong about that - Cops CAN have them. Section 12220 outlaws machineguns, but its language contains the magic words "...except as authorized by this chapter...". Section 12201 authorizes possession of machine guns by police departments, etc. 12600 goes on and on about machineguns being used by police. And finally, section 12250(a) describes the licensing process by which the Caliban Department of Justice can give people permission to buy a machinegun. There is no licensing process for sound suppressors. Ordinary citizens and corporations (including security companies and movie studios) can't even apply for permission. Cops and the military (and feds of course) can have them. I believe many of the "silencers" you see in movies are completely fake. (You KNOW the sound they make in movies is bogus). Which is actually pretty damn dumb. They should be MANDATORY for outdoor ranges near populated areas. [%|]
Link Posted: 12/20/2001 4:02:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 10:01:25 AM EDT
Well, I know a Class III dealer here in S. CA so that's not that unusual. Rarely get a chance to go with him to shoot the Class III stuff. And no, he's not one of them movie guys. Deals mostly with LE agencies.
Link Posted: 12/21/2001 10:18:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BigPig: ... I can't believe they didn't let us all play with their toys. How dare them! [:(]
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You should have threatened to ban them if they wouldn't play nice! [:D]
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 5:19:13 PM EDT
Hey, I was there that day! I heard from one of the range officers they were suppressor manufacturers. Really cool sight to see (since you could barely hear it, sounded like a 10/22 full auto).
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 6:16:40 PM EDT
Y`all oughta check the Meetings and Events forum more often, you`d be suprised what shows up. I`ve seen cops with FA M16`s spray my target along with others (not theirs) at ASR. I`ve seen supressed AR`s there too. As for the movie guns. Ever hear how Brandon Lee died? That was no blank shooter. I believe they shoot a few different loads, one that is a flash type of round, one is a downloaded round that produces a retort and mimics recoil. Class2&3 folks have cool stuff too. For the UR grads. I havent pestered ITTS lately and was going to setup UR3 for after the first of the year. Then I`ll hold the deposit hostage until the certificates are sent out.
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 10:24:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rich314: Y`all oughta check the Meetings and Events forum more often, you`d be suprised what shows up.
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Guess I'll be doing that from now on![:D]
Link Posted: 12/23/2001 11:03:57 PM EDT
"Some people just walk between the raindrops". Anyone that would have a "DAIS" would be trying to appear legit, obviously. Timed bank robbers don't care about that.They ditch their weapons.If it has been drilled for the sear is really a small bit compared to armed robbery or murder. An interesting scenerio. These guys have connections , but they are careful not to use them.Off top, being known as "Cool" at the gun range I would say they are LEO playing with their civilian guns with add ons that fascinate them.Real criminals play with real M-16's anywhere but a range. By the sound of their personality they appear to be rogue.
Link Posted: 12/24/2001 4:29:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Skunkabilly: PMI but WTF is a DIAS?
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Drop In Auto Sear. A little sheet metal gimmick that can make a semi- gun fire full auto. Some oldies are registered as machine guns. New ones are verboten. [url]www.wetworx.com[/url]
Link Posted: 12/24/2001 5:42:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Norm_G:
Originally Posted By Skunkabilly: PMI but WTF is a DIAS?
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Drop In Auto Sear. A little sheet metal gimmick that can make a semi- gun fire full auto. Some oldies are registered as machine guns. New ones are verboten.
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I wouldn't exactly call them "sheet metal". Most of them are steel with hardened steel sear trips. They are actually pretty rugged. I've seen some sheet metal lightning links though....
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