[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Drug testing question. (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 11/24/2008 3:32:34 PM EDT
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I have an employee that was involved in a fender bender in a company truck last week. Our company policy mandates a drug test anytime there is a MVA, the employee went and had a drug test with no complaints or trepidation.
Fast forward to today and my HR manager calls me and tells me that the employee popped positive for marijuana. The levels for the test were as follows: 15 NG for the test to register 50 NG was the employee's result Two questions; what is NG the measure of, and how long after using will the marijuana show up in your bloodstream? The president of the company, the HR manager and I (Branch Manager) will counsel the employee on Wednesday. He will be required to take random, quarterly drug tests for one year. Another positive will result in immediate termination. For the record, he seems like a good kid and I (and the police at the scene) did not sense anything amiss after the accident. I am very surprised by this, and disappointed. 
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I have an employee that was involved in a fender bender in a company truck last week. Our company policy mandates a drug test anytime there is a MVA, the employee went and had a drug test with no complaints or trepidation. Fast forward to today and my HR manager calls me and tells me that the employee popped positive for marijuana. The levels for the test were as follows: 15 NG for the test to register 50 NG was the employee's result Two questions; what is NG the measure of, and how long after using will the marijuana show up in your bloodstream? The president of the company, the HR manager and I (Branch Manager) will counsel the employee on Wednesday. He will be required to take random, quarterly drug tests for one year. Another positive will result in immediate termination. For the record, he seems like a good kid and I (and the police at the scene) did not sense anything amiss after the accident. I am very surprised by this, and disappointed.
Did you have your seatbelt fastened? |
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Cutoff and Detection Post Dose The initial screening cutoff level is 50 ng/ml. The GC/MS cutoff level is 15 ng/ml. The elimination half-life of marijuana ranges from 14-38 hours. At the initial cutoff of 50 ng/ml, the daily user will remain positive for perhaps 7 to 30 days after cessation. At the confirmation level of 15 ng/ml, the frequent user will be positive for perhaps as long as 15 weeks. Marijuana metabolites' storage and slow release from lipid tissues is the reason for this long detection period. Passive Inhalation Urine levels of 5 ng/ml have been reported from passive inhalation. One recent survey indicated that one subject in a passive inhalation experiment achieved a level of 23 ng/ml. This is unusual, but points out the usefulness of higher cutoff levels such as 50 ng/ml. The higher 50 ng/ml level eliminates the possibility of passive inhalation, is a level of very high reliability, and indicates more recent use. http://www.drugsofabusetesting.com/custom.aspx?id=13 |
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It varies, there is not correlation between blood substance results and urine ones. That's why they don't do urine tests for say gentamycin or dilantin.
Hydration can affect it and so can individual metabolism. 50ul is the cuttoff for some labs. In other words, 50 and under would be considered negative. I do lab testing for a living and have also experimented on myself and others. |
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Smoke once (isolated) and THC will be detectable usually for 3 weeks.
Regular smoker (chronic  ) and THC will usually be detectable for 4-5 weeks.
I have heard of some heavy smokers testing positive for longer periods, but don't know if its correct THC is fat soluble and leaches out of your bodyfat slowly; thus hangs around in your system a long time as is my understanding    
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What would you do if he said hey boss I dont smoke weed. However I was at the indoor Grateful Dead concert and the place was thick with reefer smoke must of been a contact high. Would you believe him?
If 2nd hand smoke from cigs..promote great heatlh risks. Then you cant really dismiss a contact high statement? |
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I have an employee that was involved in a fender bender in a company truck last week. Our company policy mandates a drug test anytime there is a MVA, the employee went and had a drug test with no complaints or trepidation. Fast forward to today and my HR manager calls me and tells me that the employee popped positive for marijuana. The levels for the test were as follows: 15 NG for the test to register 50 NG was the employee's result Two questions; what is NG the measure of, and how long after using will the marijuana show up in your bloodstream? The president of the company, the HR manager and I (Branch Manager) will counsel the employee on Wednesday. He will be required to take random, quarterly drug tests for one year. Another positive will result in immediate termination. For the record, he seems like a good kid and I (and the police at the scene) did not sense anything amiss after the accident. I am very surprised by this, and disappointed.
Did you have your seatbelt fastened? Ha,Ha! 
Wasn't me, had it been me I would have been fired. Either that or my wife would have killed me. |
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http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/testing/testing_info1.shtml The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Association (SAMHSA) provides guidelines for what qualifies as a positive drug test. If a test does not give results higher than the guidelines, it does not qualify as a "positive" test. If an immunoassay test gives positive results, a second Gas Chromatography test must also give positive results before a result of "positive" is announced. The following chart shows the guidelines by substance.
Some companies are getting around these guidelines by reporting the levels found without categorizing them as a "positive" or "negative" test. This seems to be a problem primarily with mail-in home tests rather than corporate testing. |
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If the kid does his job well, why do you or your company care if he smokes in his off-time? Good question, I personally don't care what you do on your free time, but if you drive my vehicles and pop positive on drug tests, you open the company up to some big liability claims. Also without an official company response, he would be ineligible to continue driving on our insurance, which means no job, as driving is a part of his job. |
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What would you do if he said hey boss I dont smoke weed. However I was at the indoor Grateful Dead concert and the place was thick with reefer smoke must of been a contact high. Would you believe him? If 2nd hand smoke from cigs..promote great heatlh risks. Then you cant really dismiss a contact high statement? That was covered in an earlier post, the highest recorded for secondary has been 23 NG, a level below what the employee tested at. |
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If the kid does his job well, why do you or your company care if he smokes in his off-time? Because it's a lawsuit waiting to happen if his next car crash causes injury to someone, or damages another person's property.... Hell, not firing him is still a damn serious lawsuit risk, IF he's still allowed to operate company vehicles - because they now KNOW he's an illegal drug user.... |
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Was the accident in any way his fault? He rear ended a guy. The car, purchased less than an hour before, that he was behind suffered from a complete transmission lock after passing through an intersection. Traffic was fairly heavy and he was not far behind. When the car's transmission locked, my employee in a F150 hit the car, which was some form of Buick, if I recall correctly. So, he was traveling too close to the car in front of him. |
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Failing a drug test for MJ has nothing to do with intoxication level, if any. The test is for metabolites, which means the components that already broke down. If a clean person smokes and takes a test in the first hour and is completely stoned it will show a pass; if that same person took the same test 2 weeks later it would likely show as a fail.
Unless your insurance company has a real problem, there is little reason to fire an otherwise good employee. |
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Odd, I've always been under the opinion that it was easy to not test positive for those. Easy as in, you'd have to be smoking within 2-10 days for it to really register. up to about 30 days. That is a lite smoker a heavy everday smoker, most are just like cig. smokers, it's more like 60-90 days , crazy thing is coke takes 72 hr, so you can be a coke head, and just stop 3 days before the test and your fine, smoke a joint months later you still fail............ |
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50 is the old tests, If i remember right the changed it not that long ago because of false positives (aka poppyseeds on food) the new ones are 300 i think Poppyseeds do not cause false postive marajuana tests. The tests may test for one of several metabolites. I don't recal any of them being 300 for a cuttoff. |
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If the kid does his job well, why do you or your company care if he smokes in his off-time? Because it's a lawsuit waiting to happen if his next car crash causes injury to someone, or damages another person's property.... Hell, not firing him is still a damn serious lawsuit risk, IF he's still allowed to operate company vehicles - because they now KNOW he's an illegal drug user.... This is why there has to be a company response and a program followed to show rehabilitation. As much as I like the guy, I would have understood if I was told to terminate him immediately. I am risk averse when it comes to our umbrella policy. We have been sued before for MVAs and we do a lot of training to keep it from happening. I guess I should have included, "Hey, don't use illegal narcotics if you drive a company vehicle.  "
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Smoke once (isolated) and THC will be detectable usually for 3 weeks. Regular smoker (chronic ) and THC will usually be detectable for 4-5 weeks.
I have heard of some heavy smokers testing positive for longer periods, but don't know if its correct THC is fat soluble and leaches out of your bodyfat slowly; thus hangs around in your system a long time as is my understanding you're wrong. When I did my "experiment" I found that smoking once was out of the body in 2 days, and could be diluted by drinking. Smoking once a day is not smoking "once". It does rapidly accumulate though. And who just smokes once! |
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Was the accident in any way his fault? He rear ended a guy. The car, purchased less than an hour before, that he was behind suffered from a complete transmission lock after passing through an intersection. Traffic was fairly heavy and he was not far behind. When the car's transmission locked, my employee in a F150 hit the car, which was some form of Buick, if I recall correctly. So, he was traveling too close to the car in front of him. SAD thing is if traffic is heavy, you leave proper space and some body cuts you off and fills the space, you have to follow less than a car lenght no to get cut off. |
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that is a ridiculously small amount of THC in the urine...15ng/ML
It could have come from Poppy seeds on a bagel.. 
Most more stringent test like DOT which is chromatography-mass spectrometry testing....I dont think they even start to register until 25ng/ML nanograms ,IIRC! Most positives I have seen register well about 100ng/ML ...there is NO doubt if someone is a smoker! It has been awhile since I had to test anyone ...so my info might be a little dated!.. Now they go to the Doc in a box! |
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that is a ridiculously small amount of THC in the urine...15ng/ML It could have come from Poppy seeds on a bagel..
Most more stringent test like DOT which is chromatography-mass spectrometry testing....I dont think they even start to register until 25ng/ML nanograms ,IIRC! Most positives I have seen register well about 100ng/ML ...there is NO doubt if someone is a smoker! His test result was 50NG, the limit for positive was 15NG, so it was three times the threshold. |
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that is a ridiculously small amount of THC in the urine...15ng/ML It could have come from Poppy seeds on a bagel..
Most more stringent test like DOT which is chromatography-mass spectrometry testing....I dont think they even start to register until 25ng/ML nanograms ,IIRC! Most positives I have seen register well about 100ng/ML ...there is NO doubt if someone is a smoker! His test result was 50NG, the limit for positive was 15NG, so it was three times the threshold. ouch!....Looks like he is a liability for the company... 
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I have an employee that was involved in a fender bender in a company truck last week. Our company policy mandates a drug test anytime there is a MVA, the employee went and had a drug test with no complaints or trepidation. Fast forward to today and my HR manager calls me and tells me that the employee popped positive for marijuana. The levels for the test were as follows: 15 NG for the test to register 50 NG was the employee's result Two questions; what is NG the measure of, and how long after using will the marijuana show up in your bloodstream? The president of the company, the HR manager and I (Branch Manager) will counsel the employee on Wednesday. He will be required to take random, quarterly drug tests for one year. Another positive will result in immediate termination. For the record, he seems like a good kid and I (and the police at the scene) did not sense anything amiss after the accident. I am very surprised by this, and disappointed.
As a parole officer, I think I'm pretty well versed in drug testing and results. 50 ng/ml is really not that high for marijuana. The subject could have used, on a daily basis, several months ago then quit or he could have used once recently. But 50 ng/ml of cannabinoids is a relatively small amount. I recently tested a client who tested at GREATER than 2000 ng/ml. What I would suggest be done is that the subject should be tested again next month. More than likely he'll test negative provided that he stays clean. The fucked up thing is that, at least in PA, if the subject appeared to be under the influence and a trooper took him to get blood tested, he would've been charged with DUI. ETA: The cutoff for our tests, which come from Kroll, use a cutoff of 20ng/ml for cannabinoids unless I get the test confirmed, then it's 3ng/ml. |
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If the kid does his job well, why do you or your company care if he smokes in his off-time? It's usually the insurance company that cares, not the employer. The employer just wants lower insurance costs. This. Workman's Comp rates drop dramatically if a drug testing program is in place at a company. The annual testing at the employees expense ($$  ) with randoms is pretty much a standard.
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"Some of my finest hours have been spent on the back of my veranda, smoking hemp and observing as far as the eye can see." -Thomas Jefferson Amen Not the first hophead president and certainly not the last. "Dude. This is mind blowing. If our universe was just like a cell in the thumb of a cosmic giant, then there could be millions of universes in the tip of my own thumb! Totally awesome! Wait. I'm having an epiphany. I think I'll write something..." WHEN IN THE COURSE OF HUMAN EVENTS... Looks like it didn't hurt ol' TJ any. |
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Odd, I've always been under the opinion that it was easy to not test positive for those. Easy as in, you'd have to be smoking within 2-10 days for it to really register. up to about 30 days. This is what I always learned in my health classes. However, THC gets into your hair somehow, so if you have longer hair then you could leave a smoke trail beyond 30 days. |
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If it is company policy to not use drugs then he has violated that policy. Would you be asking this same question if he had been drinking?
Bottom line he was dishonest with the company that employed him - being a good worker is a moot point. He had been dishonest, and is clearly a known liability now that he has tested positive. Should he have another accident that results in injury guess who gets added to the lawsuit - you. The only person that can fix stupid is Jesus - and I think he's pretty busy. Some people need to learn lessons and fail once and a while instead of always being bailed out or given multiple chances. The company gave him a chance when he was hired... and he let it slip away. Maybe he will learn before he fills out another application. Follow up with a second test though - can you do a hair test? Much more reliable. |
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Smoke once (isolated) and THC will be detectable usually for 3 weeks. Regular smoker (chronic ) and THC will usually be detectable for 4-5 weeks.
I have heard of some heavy smokers testing positive for longer periods, but don't know if its correct THC is fat soluble and leaches out of your bodyfat slowly; thus hangs around in your system a long time as is my understanding you're wrong. When I did my "experiment" I found that smoking once was out of the body in 2 days, and could be diluted by drinking. Smoking once a day is not smoking "once". It does rapidly accumulate though. And who just smokes once! This smoking once you speak of... is that one hit or one bowl or one joint? Just curious.
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